In the 60's every wannabe musician said they played the
the Blues. Now its Irtrad or perhaps for those
who haven't the marbles to associate with Bogirish
who say they play Scottish music; though I must
say I cant hardly tell the difference since the
Dubliners and the DubledublinerCheetans did thier
thing.
Irish traditional music - the new class war battleground?
Do us a favour!
There's enough bitching and bickering about fine points of the music without kicking off a polemic about distracting irrelevancies. (Unless, in proper style, such distracting irelevancies are introduced with a canny wit, subtle irony and and underpinning of affection for the music - all of which sf's post lacks (or appears to lack - hard to say!).)
Is it just me, or has the quality of discussion in thesession declined recently?
When someone posts a discussion you feel isn't worthwhile, respond to it many times, filling up the discussion with comments about how useless it is.
On no account should ye attempt to raise the standard by starting your own discussions or only responding to discussions you feel are worthwhile. That would be too logical.
Excuse my tongue-in-cheekness, but really: have ye nothing better to do than bitch about "the quality of discussion in thesession" when ye could actually be doing something about it? Nobody is forcing you to respond to every discussion so just choose the ones you enjoy responding to.
Look: if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. It's that simple.
I'd much rather you spent your time discussing worthwhile points than posting comments explaining why you won't discuss something that isn't worthwhile.
but I made no obsequious side-swipes at any class, and I suspect I may have a ti-i-i-i-ny wee bit more eloquent... but that's just my opinion, which you are also welcome to ignore.
Danny.
However perhaps a little context might help shed some light on my posting above.
Like many who care passionately about Irish Traditional Music, I feel that I plough a lonely furrow. Very little is understood about the music outside of the circle of its afficionados and the fact that the music occupies so much of my leisure time - playing it, reading about it, listening to it, even - God help me! - writing about and publicising it gives others reason to believe I may have the odd loose screw.
Hence my delight on being directed to "thesession" by a friend who tipped me off that I'd feel at home here.
How right he was! It was a pleasure to find myself in the company of people who thought deeply about the music, who felt deeply about the music, who knew loads about the music and were prepared to share their knowledge. I found the discussions section was a place I'd visit several times per day. I found the threads variously educating, immensely funny, challenging, etc.
Admittedly, there was the odd bit of rough-housing and slagging - some of it perhaps a bit near-the-knuckle. However, even that sort of close-to-the-edge banter was informed by a knowledge of - indeed a love of (if I'm permitted to use such a hysterical term) - the music.
Hence I would be very disappointed if people of the calibre of those who gave me cause to sign up to thesession, and whose postings in the discussions section, felt the need to withdraw or to be less "evident" because the quality of the discussions appears to be in decline. We all know that web-based communities are fragile and it only takes one or two vociferous people whose views do not coincide with the shared world-view of the remainder of the community to cause the more serious members of the community to retreat into their shells.
You are right that if we care, then there is an obligation on us to raise the game. That, however, requires a little effort on our behalf whereas the sad fact is that it takes very little effort to sour things.
I'll heed your advice neveretheless, Jeremy.
But I responded but I do truly CARE about thesession as a resource and as a support to me in my playing, thinking about and further understanding the music. I know that there are a great many members who share my feelings of gratitude to you for providing us with a unique facility to extend our sense of community beyond the confines of our real-world sessions.
Okay no, just before I go to bed:
Intelligent people who contribute constructively to this site threatening to leave or reporting that others are threatening or have threatened => nothing achieved, apart from Jeremy feeling as though he is doing something wrong.
G'night...
Aidan, none of what you write above explains why you can't just ignore threads you disapprove of. Short of banning people from the site because 'they don't fit in', there is only one thing you can do, and that is to raise what you see as the quality of discussion by posting more threads to your own liking. I might for example easily grumble that the site frequently seems dominated by 'The Aussie Shift' these days, but the solution to that 'problem' (not really a problem I hasten to add!) is the same - post more stuff from this hemisphere!.
As far as the golden days when the 'even that sort of close-to-the-edge banter was informed by a knowledge of - indeed a love of (if I'm permitted to use such a hysterical term) - the music.' - there were always (since I've been here anyway) outrage at the utterings of at least one individual (M.Gill, come on down!). I think that reading between the sometimes opaque lines in sorefingers' posts, you cannot accuse him of 'not having a love for the music'. His manner just obviously irritates you.
Please don't take this as a pop at yourself Aidan, incidentally, I find your Pay The Reckoning site fascinating....
(Rolls sleeves down and dons jacket again. Takes a few deep breaths, takes glasses out of inside packet and puts back on nose.
Voices of assesmbled onlookers ... "On you go, lads! It's all over!" "Away back to the bar, fellas! Show's over!", etc.
Ottery pats Crossey on back and says - "There you go, big fella! No harm done! C'mon up to the bar wi' me and I'll get you a pint. Don't be mindin' yer man, now!")
Ottery felt pleased about getting over the little disagreement earlier on. In fact, he felt perfectly smug. It wasn’t him who’d felt obliged to leave the pub – and he’d managed to increase his standing amongst the dregs of humanity who populated the bar without even having to raise his voice, let alone his fists, as was the usuall necessary, He'd even got out of buying the feller a drink. He celebrated by staying an extra hour over his usual four, thus raising his alcohol intake from eight to ten pints of the black stuff. He was almost comatose but still on his feet, as he staggered into the car park. He barely noticed the sinister little figure crouched by the door, inflamed digits outstretched and muttering incomprehensible gibberish. "Those Cheefy-Chieftains got it wrong, Old Joe Cooley sing this song!".. he vaguely heard as the cool air hit him, and he staggered towards his car.
He didn’t see the figure slip from the shadows behind him. "Now is the time", he heard just before the full weight of the piano accordion spattered his brains across the tarmac... "To Pay The Reckoning."
Crossey awoke in a dishevelled bed the next morning. Aching in every limb, his mouth as dry as the bottom of a budgie's cage, he stole a glance at the half-full bottle of Bush perched accusingly on his bedside table.
Almost retching from the effort of drawing himself into sitting position, he reached across for his first cigarette of the day and drew the posionous vapour deep into his protesting lungs.
"How merciful", he thought, "is the night's drinking that extinguishes memory!"
Last night's fun was no such binge. He may have drunk a half-bottle after he slunk home, but it did little if anything to dull the ignominy of his intemperate behaviour and subsequent furtive departure from the session. Each time he revisited the memory, he shuddered involuntarily.
"Thank God for Ottery!" he thought. If that gentleman - that saint and scholar - hadn't intervened, then who knows what might have kicked off. There was a bad atmosphere in the pub that night; the normally genial hostelry had become - hopefully momentarily - what his ma would have called a "grip".
His mandolin lay on the chest of drawers. Beside it, a crumpled piece of paper, with a tune sketched out in ABC. He remembered struggling with the tune last night and - through a drunken mistiness - putting it down on paper, altering a note here and there.
Was it any good?
He picked up the mandolin and plucked the first few notes. An Eminor tune, in 2/4 march time, the dark broodiness of the piece startled him. He played on. The second part took him by surprise. If the first part was brooding, then the second piece was positively dangerous.
He played the march through three or four times, before lighting another cigarette.
"That's a keeper!" he thought as he racked his brain for a suitable title. "Don't force it", he thought "It'll come in its own time!"
And come it did!
As he grabbed a pen to make a few notes, he felt his hand being guided by some irresistible, sinister force. Slowly and deliberately, in a heavy script, the letters formed themselves ...
O... T... T...
When the title had been spelled out in full, Crossey - appalled - let the tune fall from his grasp. And there it lay on the bedroom floor, glaring at him - OTTERY'S REVENGE!
Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
In the 60's every wannabe musician said they played the
the Blues. Now its Irtrad or perhaps for those
who haven't the marbles to associate with Bogirish
who say they play Scottish music; though I must
say I cant hardly tell the difference since the
Dubliners and the DubledublinerCheetans did thier
thing.
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by sorefingers
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
A chara ...
Wha?
Irish traditional music - the new class war battleground?
Do us a favour!
There's enough bitching and bickering about fine points of the music without kicking off a polemic about distracting irrelevancies. (Unless, in proper style, such distracting irelevancies are introduced with a canny wit, subtle irony and and underpinning of affection for the music - all of which sf's post lacks (or appears to lack - hard to say!).)
Is it just me, or has the quality of discussion in thesession declined recently?
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
No, Aidan, - it's not just you.
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Kenny
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Plumetted
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Well, here's what you can do lads:
When someone posts a discussion you feel isn't worthwhile, respond to it many times, filling up the discussion with comments about how useless it is.
On no account should ye attempt to raise the standard by starting your own discussions or only responding to discussions you feel are worthwhile. That would be too logical.
Excuse my tongue-in-cheekness, but really: have ye nothing better to do than bitch about "the quality of discussion in thesession" when ye could actually be doing something about it? Nobody is forcing you to respond to every discussion so just choose the ones you enjoy responding to.
Look: if you don't like a discussion, ignore it. It's that simple.
I'd much rather you spent your time discussing worthwhile points than posting comments explaining why you won't discuss something that isn't worthwhile.
Is that so hard?
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Jeremy
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
To be brutally frank, this seems to me like a rehash of a discussion I posted very recently:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/2055
but I made no obsequious side-swipes at any class, and I suspect I may have a ti-i-i-i-ny wee bit more eloquent... but that's just my opinion, which you are also welcome to ignore.
Danny.
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Jeremy ...
You make a very valid point.
However perhaps a little context might help shed some light on my posting above.
Like many who care passionately about Irish Traditional Music, I feel that I plough a lonely furrow. Very little is understood about the music outside of the circle of its afficionados and the fact that the music occupies so much of my leisure time - playing it, reading about it, listening to it, even - God help me! - writing about and publicising it gives others reason to believe I may have the odd loose screw.
Hence my delight on being directed to "thesession" by a friend who tipped me off that I'd feel at home here.
How right he was! It was a pleasure to find myself in the company of people who thought deeply about the music, who felt deeply about the music, who knew loads about the music and were prepared to share their knowledge. I found the discussions section was a place I'd visit several times per day. I found the threads variously educating, immensely funny, challenging, etc.
Admittedly, there was the odd bit of rough-housing and slagging - some of it perhaps a bit near-the-knuckle. However, even that sort of close-to-the-edge banter was informed by a knowledge of - indeed a love of (if I'm permitted to use such a hysterical term) - the music.
Hence I would be very disappointed if people of the calibre of those who gave me cause to sign up to thesession, and whose postings in the discussions section, felt the need to withdraw or to be less "evident" because the quality of the discussions appears to be in decline. We all know that web-based communities are fragile and it only takes one or two vociferous people whose views do not coincide with the shared world-view of the remainder of the community to cause the more serious members of the community to retreat into their shells.
You are right that if we care, then there is an obligation on us to raise the game. That, however, requires a little effort on our behalf whereas the sad fact is that it takes very little effort to sour things.
I'll heed your advice neveretheless, Jeremy.
But I responded but I do truly CARE about thesession as a resource and as a support to me in my playing, thinking about and further understanding the music. I know that there are a great many members who share my feelings of gratitude to you for providing us with a unique facility to extend our sense of community beyond the confines of our real-world sessions.
Enough said.
Beannacht!
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Ewwwww! I think I'll stick with the Aussie shift. I'm off to bed...
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Dow
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Okay no, just before I go to bed:
Intelligent people who contribute constructively to this site threatening to leave or reporting that others are threatening or have threatened => nothing achieved, apart from Jeremy feeling as though he is doing something wrong.
G'night...
# Posted on September 1st 2003 by Dow
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Aidan, none of what you write above explains why you can't just ignore threads you disapprove of. Short of banning people from the site because 'they don't fit in', there is only one thing you can do, and that is to raise what you see as the quality of discussion by posting more threads to your own liking. I might for example easily grumble that the site frequently seems dominated by 'The Aussie Shift' these days, but the solution to that 'problem' (not really a problem I hasten to add!) is the same - post more stuff from this hemisphere!.
As far as the golden days when the 'even that sort of close-to-the-edge banter was informed by a knowledge of - indeed a love of (if I'm permitted to use such a hysterical term) - the music.' - there were always (since I've been here anyway) outrage at the utterings of at least one individual (M.Gill, come on down!). I think that reading between the sometimes opaque lines in sorefingers' posts, you cannot accuse him of 'not having a love for the music'. His manner just obviously irritates you.
Please don't take this as a pop at yourself Aidan, incidentally, I find your Pay The Reckoning site fascinating....
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Dow ... and Jeremy, of course
If I've given any impression that I believe Jeremy is doing something wrong, then I apologise.
My beef was not directed at Jeremy, who - as I've said - has provided us with an immensely valuable resource.
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Crossey's Farewell To The Class War
Ottery ...
Thanks.
You're right. There are other perspectives.
(Rolls sleeves down and dons jacket again. Takes a few deep breaths, takes glasses out of inside packet and puts back on nose.
Voices of assesmbled onlookers ... "On you go, lads! It's all over!" "Away back to the bar, fellas! Show's over!", etc.
Ottery pats Crossey on back and says - "There you go, big fella! No harm done! C'mon up to the bar wi' me and I'll get you a pint. Don't be mindin' yer man, now!")
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
You mean I owe you a pint now? I should have kept my mouth shut !
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Ottery
(Sweating profusely and blinking through misty glasses at assembled onlookers!
AC "No it's alright! I've had enough already! To tell you the truth I think I'd be well-advised to get offside. I've done enough harm already!"
Ottery "Away o' that, man! Take a pint. G'wan. Calm yourself down!"
AC "No. You're a sound man and all that. But I'll jus' slip out the side door here when there's nobody lookin'."
Ottery "Well, will I leave one nehind the bar for you?"
AC "Very decent of you, Ottery. But I'll not, thanks!"
Ottery "See you, then!"
AC "Slán!")
There you go ... you're off the hook!
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Phew!
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Now, this is what I call a discussion. What happens next, lads? Surely there's a twist at the end?
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Whats all this shouting?
We'll have no trouble here.
This is a local site for local people.
PP
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Pied Piper
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
OK, here you are then Danny….
Ottery felt pleased about getting over the little disagreement earlier on. In fact, he felt perfectly smug. It wasn’t him who’d felt obliged to leave the pub – and he’d managed to increase his standing amongst the dregs of humanity who populated the bar without even having to raise his voice, let alone his fists, as was the usuall necessary, He'd even got out of buying the feller a drink. He celebrated by staying an extra hour over his usual four, thus raising his alcohol intake from eight to ten pints of the black stuff. He was almost comatose but still on his feet, as he staggered into the car park. He barely noticed the sinister little figure crouched by the door, inflamed digits outstretched and muttering incomprehensible gibberish. "Those Cheefy-Chieftains got it wrong, Old Joe Cooley sing this song!".. he vaguely heard as the cool air hit him, and he staggered towards his car.
He didn’t see the figure slip from the shadows behind him. "Now is the time", he heard just before the full weight of the piano accordion spattered his brains across the tarmac... "To Pay The Reckoning."
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Ottery
Re: Blues was middle class folk now Irtrad is
Ha-ha yes, ottery, in true Patrick McCabe mode there!
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
...
Crossey awoke in a dishevelled bed the next morning. Aching in every limb, his mouth as dry as the bottom of a budgie's cage, he stole a glance at the half-full bottle of Bush perched accusingly on his bedside table.
Almost retching from the effort of drawing himself into sitting position, he reached across for his first cigarette of the day and drew the posionous vapour deep into his protesting lungs.
"How merciful", he thought, "is the night's drinking that extinguishes memory!"
Last night's fun was no such binge. He may have drunk a half-bottle after he slunk home, but it did little if anything to dull the ignominy of his intemperate behaviour and subsequent furtive departure from the session. Each time he revisited the memory, he shuddered involuntarily.
"Thank God for Ottery!" he thought. If that gentleman - that saint and scholar - hadn't intervened, then who knows what might have kicked off. There was a bad atmosphere in the pub that night; the normally genial hostelry had become - hopefully momentarily - what his ma would have called a "grip".
His mandolin lay on the chest of drawers. Beside it, a crumpled piece of paper, with a tune sketched out in ABC. He remembered struggling with the tune last night and - through a drunken mistiness - putting it down on paper, altering a note here and there.
Was it any good?
He picked up the mandolin and plucked the first few notes. An Eminor tune, in 2/4 march time, the dark broodiness of the piece startled him. He played on. The second part took him by surprise. If the first part was brooding, then the second piece was positively dangerous.
He played the march through three or four times, before lighting another cigarette.
"That's a keeper!" he thought as he racked his brain for a suitable title. "Don't force it", he thought "It'll come in its own time!"
And come it did!
As he grabbed a pen to make a few notes, he felt his hand being guided by some irresistible, sinister force. Slowly and deliberately, in a heavy script, the letters formed themselves ...
O... T... T...
When the title had been spelled out in full, Crossey - appalled - let the tune fall from his grasp. And there it lay on the bedroom floor, glaring at him - OTTERY'S REVENGE!
# Posted on September 2nd 2003 by Aidan Crossey
Ottery / Aidan -
take a bow, boys! had me in pleats!
# Posted on September 5th 2003 by nastyweegirl