hi my name is chris im a bodhran player and i have been playing a load of years. i would like any 1 from milltown malbay that has played music with me to comment on this site about my playing. i know muscians might not like bodhran players but if its played properley it wont ruin the session.
This is a tricky one. I think the bodhran stands out more than for example some of the quieter melody instruments when it's played poorly and therefore it is easily highlighted. Here in Melbourne we have Gerry Daly who gives the sessions an enormous "lift". The other one who stands out for me is Martin McHugh from Offaly, uncomplicated but very effective. I'd happily sit next to either of these two to play tunes. Incidentally, I have maybe 500+LPs/CDs of guitar music here and have spent my life playing guitar but I've seen many a session ruined by guitar/s, so it's not just percussion.
I think funky that you cover it in the last phrase of your post:"if it's played properly". That's the problem, often it' is'nt played properly.
The problem stems from the fact that too many people think the bodhran is easy to play because all you've got to do is hit it, and this produces a whole batch of people who don't understand the subtleties of rythm, volume and syncopation. It really is an instrument that requires as much finesse as any melody instrument if played properly. I think its too easy to pick on us poor bodhran players, and i don't recommend anyone with thin skin take up the instrument. I attend a session where there are regularly poor fiddlers and mandolin players and hardly a word is mentioned when they throw the whole session off by playing in the wrong key, or dragging. I also play with a hammered dulcimer player who takes off at a 100 mph and I get the blame for speeding up the tune.
the bottom line is that as long as there are open sessions there will be good and bad players there. Players who are willing to learn, players who are willing to teach and the vocal minority who criticize. Like any bully anywhere the easiest target is the one to get criticized the most. In our case Bodhrans. At least I've never played off key.
The problem with bodhrans is that many of the other participants in a session are elitists. They hand out gratuitous advise such as "don't take your bodhran to a session until you are familiar with the music and the instrument" They often say the same thing in a much more offensive manner.
Ask yourself if you have ever heard these people say the same about banjos,fiddles and whistles.
THEY have a problem, just soak up the music and play your best.
A well played bodhran is just fine in a session, (although IMHO part of playing the bodhran well is knowing when not to play along).
McKnowall, I don't think it is elitist to say "don't take your bodhran to a session until you are familiar with the music and the instrument".
The reason people primarily make these comments to bodhran players is that it is very unusual for a beginner of another instrument to just play along with everytune because they know "reel" & "jig". It is very common for bodhran players to treat sessions as a chance to practice their instrument.
It would and should be said to the player of another instrument if they played along with every tune regardless of familiarity. It is much rarer for this to happen with melody instruments, although I have come across people who have done this on the whistle and accordeon (!). This is worse than doing the same thing on a bodhran, but not by much.
Most beginers of melody instruments will only join in on the tunes that they know, and I'm not going to begrudge someone the chance to join in in that manner. Beginning bodhran players should exhibit a similar degree of restraint. I'd concede a bit more licence to play along with tunes that aren't 100% familar to a bodhran if they do so without playing full volume.
As I said in another thread, my starting position was that I liked the bodhran. However over the last few years I have gradually accumulated more reservations about percussion (I won't limit this to bodhran, bodhran is the best percussion for this music) Often I find myself treating percussion as a background noise that I have to block out to hear the music.
That said I do have the pleasure of playing with excellent bodhran players on occasion and they can really contribute to a session.
I'm not antibodhran. But I think it is an instrument that lends itself to abuse by apparently granting quick and easy access to joining in with a session.
Bodhrans don't kill sessions, (poor) bodhran-players kill (or at least hinder) sessions.
Its simply good and bad musicians, which translates,IMO to sensitive and insensitive musicians. Those who listen, and those who dont. we can all hear the music, but who is really listening! Pretty much every point made above is valid IMO.
Best advice i could give to ANY musician who wants to play trad, is.. ..wait for it.... learn the bloody tunes! Either in your head or on a melody instrument like the tin whistle.
Each tune is a work of art, in a particular style, with its own twists and turns, phraseing, etc they each deserve respect care and attention.
I will repeat myself here; my favorite person to play with is a good Bodhran player, operative word... good!
Coming to a session near you soon.................When you see a bodhran player arrive at a session with an amplifier and speaker, that's the time to get shirty. I saw one in action last year at a concert. A duo consisting of a guitar and a bodhran. The rthym guitar was amplified and the bodhran player was using a pick up. The row they both made completely drown out the words of the song they sang. I stayed in my seat out of respect..........just!!!!!!!
I play the bodhran, as well as (meaning 'and also') other instruments. II used to play pipes in a pipe band, and noted that the drummers were issued sheet music for every tune we pipers learned. This memory has served me well, and may be of use to budding bodhranistas. Every tune is different. Learn each tune, don't just bash out a rhythm that you've learnt. If you don't know the tune but must join in, keep it basic and watch the faces of the other players (except for Ptarmigan's, that will hurt) If you get smiles and nods, carry on. Otherwise keep quiet and listen to the tune. Another thing I have learned: get yourelf a metronome, or better still a PC recording studio, and practice getting the beat exactly, and I mean exactly, in the right place. If you can hear the metronome, you are missing the beat. If you are struggling to keep time, you will find that you are fighting the metronome. If you are on time, the metronome becomes you friend. And make sure your instrument is in tune.
Hey there, funky
As a young boy, I took piano from a grand lady who bore a striking resemblance to Margaret Hamilton, so, when she spoke...I listened. The one thing that stuck with me, "..play the rests, they are there for a reason." I tend to carry that over to my Bodhran playing. Consequentially, when asked why I didn' t play on the last tune, I usually reply,"Just because I have a drum, it doesn't mean I have to hit it."
Keep that philosophy and you'll not go wrong.
Have Goat...Will Travel
I agree, it has to be a wind up. And I'm not rising to it. I just can't be arsed.
What good bodhran players need to ask themselves is "why" they are still disliked by musicians. I'm done answering the question, try answering it for yourself for a change ... instead of just moaning about being lumped together with the people who can't play the thing.
There has to be many who have stopped playing drum to learn to play tunes, I would be very interested to see if there is anyone who after learning to play tunes, stopped and took up the bodhran.
No history; no background: of course it's a windup!
Perhaps I might adopt an alter ego and post something as a banjo player since Tudor times, asking for testimonials from Henery VIII; then again, perhaps not! I never really understood why all the lute players were jealous though.
Chris old chap. The first principle is to recognise that bodhran players are absolutely never needed at sessions. They cannot add anything musically, as everything a bodhran can do is already in the melodies, only quieter and more subtle (which is what most people want). Secondly, you head this thread with the assertion that you are good. Don't get me wrong - I'm, er, sure you are...but I have never met a bodhran player yet who thinks he's good who isn't anything other than a bloody pain in the arse in a session. You will have an uphill struggle to demonstrate that you are any different. Frankly, to get to where you are on the drum you did but a small fraction of the work that it takes to get good on a flute, a fiddle or the pipes. So you need to be better than good really. I'm sure you are, I think. Good luck!
If the percentage of tune players that couldn't play their instrument was anywhere near the percentage of bodhran players who can't play theirs then this music would not exist. I can honestly say there has only ever been one good bodhran players play at our session. His name is John and he's always welcome. And he doesn't bring a 'tool kit' of noisy sh*t. Melody players have to be really pretty crap to be as weakening as bodhran players.
There is nothing elitist about advising a bodhran player not to play in public until they are familiar with the music. The reason you don't have to tell this to players of other (melody) instruments is because they HAVE to be familiar with the tunes to play them.
And to answer the poster's original request, I've heard him play and he's crap. People are just too polite to say anything.
We've had a ( new to us ) player turn up at our session recently.
There's bad news, and there's good news.
The bad news is he has no technique, doesn't know what to do with his left hand, nor much with his right.
The good news is he shuts up and listens pretty quickly.
I'll see if I might have a talk with him before the next session, to give him a tip or two, from my position as an occasional goat-whacker of 30 years' experience.
There's some really interesting stuff on this post. Good bodhrán players are good musicians. Even good beginners soon learn how to not get in the way (with advice from other good musicians, in my case).
I learnt to play by taping the regular session I was playing in and playing along at home. I learnt the tunes and I heard what I sounded like. Got the rhythm sorted first, playing along with a tipper on a kids annual (big thin book). Rhythm and dynamics. At home, this is, of course!
The most powerful I have ever seen on tv or film was a brief scene in the 2nd episode of the documentary "Dance Britana" which aired last xmas hols.
The scene inquestion was from an old Pastow mayday from I think the early 60s (b&w film). It wasn't the usual outside ceremony but inside a pub with a similar format of music, but with much more feeling to it. This was a generally closed part of the day where the old -horse is brought back to life and two young fellers did this most amazing and incredibly intense writhing dance where they started out like snakes coiled around each other and slowly rose.
It was unforgetable, I would not have believed such a frenetic dance form, with such marked homoerotic overtones, came from anywhere in these island, the Wickerman was nowhere near the remarkable abandonment of the dancers.
Unfortunately brief though the clip was, the editors saw fit to cut to some (admittedly good) commentary in the middle of the clip. Even more unfortunately it does not appear possible to find a copy of the clip on-line (if anyone has one please do let me know). I had it on realplayer for a week after the show was transmitted but then it wouldn't play any more.
If this show is ever repeated make sure you watch it if only for that scene.
Just make sure your parental controls are switched off on your browser and do a google search for "homoerotic ". Should be plenty there to keep you busy.
to steve shaw's post I am a quieter and more subtle player. I dont like to over power musicians. i like to blend in with them rather than battering the bloody thing
good bodhran player
good bodhran player
hi my name is chris im a bodhran player and i have been playing a load of years. i would like any 1 from milltown malbay that has played music with me to comment on this site about my playing. i know muscians might not like bodhran players but if its played properley it wont ruin the session.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by funkybodhran
Re: good bodhran player
Is there really an anti-bodhran vibe in some places? I love the sound of a good bodhran.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by JTC111
Re: good bodhran player
This is a tricky one. I think the bodhran stands out more than for example some of the quieter melody instruments when it's played poorly and therefore it is easily highlighted. Here in Melbourne we have Gerry Daly who gives the sessions an enormous "lift". The other one who stands out for me is Martin McHugh from Offaly, uncomplicated but very effective. I'd happily sit next to either of these two to play tunes. Incidentally, I have maybe 500+LPs/CDs of guitar music here and have spent my life playing guitar but I've seen many a session ruined by guitar/s, so it's not just percussion.
I think funky that you cover it in the last phrase of your post:"if it's played properly". That's the problem, often it' is'nt played properly.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: good bodhran player
The problem stems from the fact that too many people think the bodhran is easy to play because all you've got to do is hit it, and this produces a whole batch of people who don't understand the subtleties of rythm, volume and syncopation. It really is an instrument that requires as much finesse as any melody instrument if played properly. I think its too easy to pick on us poor bodhran players, and i don't recommend anyone with thin skin take up the instrument. I attend a session where there are regularly poor fiddlers and mandolin players and hardly a word is mentioned when they throw the whole session off by playing in the wrong key, or dragging. I also play with a hammered dulcimer player who takes off at a 100 mph and I get the blame for speeding up the tune.
the bottom line is that as long as there are open sessions there will be good and bad players there. Players who are willing to learn, players who are willing to teach and the vocal minority who criticize. Like any bully anywhere the easiest target is the one to get criticized the most. In our case Bodhrans. At least I've never played off key.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by drewid
Re: good bodhran player
The problem with bodhrans is that many of the other participants in a session are elitists. They hand out gratuitous advise such as "don't take your bodhran to a session until you are familiar with the music and the instrument" They often say the same thing in a much more offensive manner.
Ask yourself if you have ever heard these people say the same about banjos,fiddles and whistles.
THEY have a problem, just soak up the music and play your best.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by mcknowall
Re: good bodhran player
Hi funky,
A well played bodhran is just fine in a session, (although IMHO part of playing the bodhran well is knowing when not to play along).
McKnowall, I don't think it is elitist to say "don't take your bodhran to a session until you are familiar with the music and the instrument".
The reason people primarily make these comments to bodhran players is that it is very unusual for a beginner of another instrument to just play along with everytune because they know "reel" & "jig". It is very common for bodhran players to treat sessions as a chance to practice their instrument.
It would and should be said to the player of another instrument if they played along with every tune regardless of familiarity. It is much rarer for this to happen with melody instruments, although I have come across people who have done this on the whistle and accordeon (!). This is worse than doing the same thing on a bodhran, but not by much.
Most beginers of melody instruments will only join in on the tunes that they know, and I'm not going to begrudge someone the chance to join in in that manner. Beginning bodhran players should exhibit a similar degree of restraint. I'd concede a bit more licence to play along with tunes that aren't 100% familar to a bodhran if they do so without playing full volume.
As I said in another thread, my starting position was that I liked the bodhran. However over the last few years I have gradually accumulated more reservations about percussion (I won't limit this to bodhran, bodhran is the best percussion for this music) Often I find myself treating percussion as a background noise that I have to block out to hear the music.
That said I do have the pleasure of playing with excellent bodhran players on occasion and they can really contribute to a session.
I'm not antibodhran. But I think it is an instrument that lends itself to abuse by apparently granting quick and easy access to joining in with a session.
Bodhrans don't kill sessions, (poor) bodhran-players kill (or at least hinder) sessions.
cheers - Chris
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: good bodhran player
Chris, may I suggest that the words "bodhran" & "full volume" never ever be allowed to be used, in the same sentence, ever again!
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: good bodhran player
Its simply good and bad musicians, which translates,IMO to sensitive and insensitive musicians. Those who listen, and those who dont. we can all hear the music, but who is really listening! Pretty much every point made above is valid IMO.
Best advice i could give to ANY musician who wants to play trad, is.. ..wait for it.... learn the bloody tunes! Either in your head or on a melody instrument like the tin whistle.
Each tune is a work of art, in a particular style, with its own twists and turns, phraseing, etc they each deserve respect care and attention.
I will repeat myself here; my favorite person to play with is a good Bodhran player, operative word... good!
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: good bodhran player
Coming to a session near you soon.................When you see a bodhran player arrive at a session with an amplifier and speaker, that's the time to get shirty. I saw one in action last year at a concert. A duo consisting of a guitar and a bodhran. The rthym guitar was amplified and the bodhran player was using a pick up. The row they both made completely drown out the words of the song they sang. I stayed in my seat out of respect..........just!!!!!!!
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by Free Reed
Re: good bodhran player
Delete 'Rthym'
Add 'Rhythm'
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by Free Reed
Re: good bodhran player
I play the bodhran, as well as (meaning 'and also') other instruments. II used to play pipes in a pipe band, and noted that the drummers were issued sheet music for every tune we pipers learned. This memory has served me well, and may be of use to budding bodhranistas. Every tune is different. Learn each tune, don't just bash out a rhythm that you've learnt. If you don't know the tune but must join in, keep it basic and watch the faces of the other players (except for Ptarmigan's, that will hurt
) If you get smiles and nods, carry on. Otherwise keep quiet and listen to the tune. Another thing I have learned: get yourelf a metronome, or better still a PC recording studio, and practice getting the beat exactly, and I mean exactly, in the right place. If you can hear the metronome, you are missing the beat. If you are struggling to keep time, you will find that you are fighting the metronome. If you are on time, the metronome becomes you friend. And make sure your instrument is in tune.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by gam
Re: good bodhran player
I've just re-read the original posting, and see the words "...musicians might not like bodhran players". Perhaps there is a clue here.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by gam
Re: good bodhran player
This has got to be a wind-up?
Has someone actually come on the sardonic.org and asked people to come along and tell everyone how good he is?
Go ask a stranger for a hug if your ego needs a boost!
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by jfiddlerh
Re: good bodhran player
Hey there, funky
As a young boy, I took piano from a grand lady who bore a striking resemblance to Margaret Hamilton, so, when she spoke...I listened. The one thing that stuck with me, "..play the rests, they are there for a reason." I tend to carry that over to my Bodhran playing. Consequentially, when asked why I didn' t play on the last tune, I usually reply,"Just because I have a drum, it doesn't mean I have to hit it."
Keep that philosophy and you'll not go wrong.
Have Goat...Will Travel
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by thepig521
Re: good bodhran player
I agree, it has to be a wind up. And I'm not rising to it. I just can't be arsed.
What good bodhran players need to ask themselves is "why" they are still disliked by musicians. I'm done answering the question, try answering it for yourself for a change ... instead of just moaning about being lumped together with the people who can't play the thing.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by ...
Re: good bodhran player
There has to be many who have stopped playing drum to learn to play tunes, I would be very interested to see if there is anyone who after learning to play tunes, stopped and took up the bodhran.
Don't think that the list will be long.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by clunk999
Re: good bodhran player
"The Good Bodhran Player"....shouldn't it be a movie title?
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by nicholas
Re: good bodhran player
No history; no background: of course it's a windup!
Perhaps I might adopt an alter ego and post something as a banjo player since Tudor times, asking for testimonials from Henery VIII; then again, perhaps not! I never really understood why all the lute players were jealous though.
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by Rob
Re: good bodhran player
Hi Chris, can't comment on your playing, but your spelling and grammar, oy vey!
# Posted on February 22nd 2009 by AlBrown
Re: good bodhran player
Chris old chap. The first principle is to recognise that bodhran players are absolutely never needed at sessions. They cannot add anything musically, as everything a bodhran can do is already in the melodies, only quieter and more subtle (which is what most people want). Secondly, you head this thread with the assertion that you are good. Don't get me wrong - I'm, er, sure you are...but I have never met a bodhran player yet who thinks he's good who isn't anything other than a bloody pain in the arse in a session. You will have an uphill struggle to demonstrate that you are any different. Frankly, to get to where you are on the drum you did but a small fraction of the work that it takes to get good on a flute, a fiddle or the pipes. So you need to be better than good really. I'm sure you are, I think. Good luck!
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: good bodhran player
If the percentage of tune players that couldn't play their instrument was anywhere near the percentage of bodhran players who can't play theirs then this music would not exist. I can honestly say there has only ever been one good bodhran players play at our session. His name is John and he's always welcome. And he doesn't bring a 'tool kit' of noisy sh*t. Melody players have to be really pretty crap to be as weakening as bodhran players.
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by bogman
Re: good bodhran player
There is nothing elitist about advising a bodhran player not to play in public until they are familiar with the music. The reason you don't have to tell this to players of other (melody) instruments is because they HAVE to be familiar with the tunes to play them.
And to answer the poster's original request, I've heard him play and he's crap. People are just too polite to say anything.
Have a nice day.
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by Chrishty
Re: good bodhran player
ha ha ha, bloody brilliant. Made my day.
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: good bodhran player
We've had a ( new to us ) player turn up at our session recently.
There's bad news, and there's good news.
The bad news is he has no technique, doesn't know what to do with his left hand, nor much with his right.
The good news is he shuts up and listens pretty quickly.
I'll see if I might have a talk with him before the next session, to give him a tip or two, from my position as an occasional goat-whacker of 30 years' experience.
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: good bodhran player
There's some really interesting stuff on this post. Good bodhrán players are good musicians. Even good beginners soon learn how to not get in the way (with advice from other good musicians, in my case).
I learnt to play by taping the regular session I was playing in and playing along at home. I learnt the tunes and I heard what I sounded like. Got the rhythm sorted first, playing along with a tipper on a kids annual (big thin book). Rhythm and dynamics. At home, this is, of course!
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by greenman
Re: good bodhran player
Of course you have to be a good musician to play the bodhran well. But that doesn't negate the pointlessness of it. If anything, it makes it worse.
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by ...
Re: good bodhran player
Oh, llig, you're off again !
Put that hobbey-horse away, now, it's time for your bedtime story.
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: good bodhran player
Speaking of Hobby Horses Pete, here's a piece of subtle percussion that should warm the cockles of Llig's heart:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YZOwoYUJbI
... N.B. The Hobby Horse appears after 3 mins .... if you can listen that long!
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: good bodhran player
Ptarmigan,
The most powerful I have ever seen on tv or film was a brief scene in the 2nd episode of the documentary "Dance Britana" which aired last xmas hols.
The scene inquestion was from an old Pastow mayday from I think the early 60s (b&w film). It wasn't the usual outside ceremony but inside a pub with a similar format of music, but with much more feeling to it. This was a generally closed part of the day where the old -horse is brought back to life and two young fellers did this most amazing and incredibly intense writhing dance where they started out like snakes coiled around each other and slowly rose.
It was unforgetable, I would not have believed such a frenetic dance form, with such marked homoerotic overtones, came from anywhere in these island, the Wickerman was nowhere near the remarkable abandonment of the dancers.
Unfortunately brief though the clip was, the editors saw fit to cut to some (admittedly good) commentary in the middle of the clip. Even more unfortunately it does not appear possible to find a copy of the clip on-line (if anyone has one please do let me know). I had it on realplayer for a week after the show was transmitted but then it wouldn't play any more.
If this show is ever repeated make sure you watch it if only for that scene.
Best - Chris
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: good bodhran player
Just make sure your parental controls are switched off on your browser and do a google search for "homoerotic ". Should be plenty there to keep you busy.
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by ...
Re: good bodhran player
- chris
# Posted on February 24th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: good bodhran player
to steve shaw's post I am a quieter and more subtle player. I dont like to over power musicians. i like to blend in with them rather than battering the bloody thing
# Posted on June 25th 2009 by funkybodhran