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Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hi all
Please find attached details of a new venture in Clasac - I know not
all of you live in the greater Dublin area, but if you have friends or
relatives working or going to college perhaps you could let them know.
A warm welcome and a night of good fun is guaranteed.
Clasac Interested in joining an innovative
new traditional Irish choir?
A cross between
Cór Chúl Aodha & Voice Squad
Introductory meeting:
Thursday 26 Feb 2009 at 7.30pm
Clasac
Alfie Byrne Road, Clontarf
Contact:
Gach eolas ó: 836 3060
cor@clasac.ie
clasac are privileged to have Tom Doorley, member of Danú, as their Director and Conductor. Tom is widely regarded amongst musicians as a master flautist, who is known for his wild and unpredictable melodic
and harmonic variations and for his tenderness of treatment in playing for songs. He is excited about this new, innovative project with and encourages all interested traditional singers to come along and participate.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
All welcome? Are you sure?
I'd say there are a hundred or so local to that area that would be less than welcome... or else they wouldn't have been kicked out by CCE in the first place.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin we were looking forward to spending a few days in Cavan at the 'Nyah' festival but in view of your promotion of this event in Clasac which excludes all the ex members of Clontarf CCE (who fund raised for this building for 10 years) and those who supported them,we will now not be supporting your weekend!
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin, Tom,
Sounds like a great initiative. But do you not realise that there is a ongoing dispute that has resulted in the exclusion of hundreds of the people from Comhaltas - the parent organisation of Clasac?
Surely you could find another location until this dispute is resolved. I think that you can get a flavour of the divisiveness and the strong feelings in the ITM community resulting from this dispute from the posts on this topic. It would be a real shame for such a potentially lovely project to be the cause of a greater escalation of this dispute with more bitterness and bad feeling. It sounds too good for that!
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Sad to see that some things never change. I belong to two associations who hate each other's guts.
D'you know what? It might not be easy, but it is perfectly possible to disagree and agree with the same person/people on different subjects.
I can't know all the politics of this, not living in Ireland or being in any way involved in comhaltas, but from my understanding of the situation, the majority of posts above, while quite understandable (I mean this very seriously) are also posturing in a ridiculous way:
"I imagine a hundred or so would be less than welcome..."
Does this help solve anything? Is it by any stretch of the imagination true? I mean it would shed a whole new light on the issue if it were true that comhaltas (as a whole, that is to say all its members) had taken a personal dislike to all the members of Cluan Tairbh and that they were thus in all perpetuity no longer welcome in Clasac.
Where does it stop? Should you cross to the other side of the street when you meet someone from the opposing faction.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
What a lovely project please please change the venue as i am precluded from attending any events in Clasac, despite having 'bought a brick' in the fund raising campaign,and having paid my family membership, and fees for classes for 3 children for the 2008 which was never refunded when Comhaltas headquarters dissolved the Clontarf Branch.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
actually tirno, comhaltas and labhras and the ard comhairle actually DO have a dislike of Clontarf and they have shown this on the many occassions that the members of Clontarf have tried to resolve their differences, only to be ignored and rebuffed numerous times.
if anyone it is comhaltas who is being vindictive. Clontarf members have tried too many times to have an impartial moderator to help proceedings but CCE have denied them their right to a fair hearing, and subsequently breaking their own laws as seen in the bunreacht.
it is a sad situation but it is reality. even last year at the leinster fleadh CCE deemed to call the Clontarf branch 'D2' (Dublin 2) in the programme despite having submitted their proper name. This one situation is clearly showing CCE's dislike of Clontarf and also shows their attempts at sweeping them under the carpet and denying them an identity. Luckily for Clontarf they are thriving without comhltas's help.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hello All ,i am a friends with both people inside and outside the whole Clasac problem ,I dont the real story ,and I WAS TOLD TWO SIDES ,so until the real story comes out and why this not happened yet withall the publicity about it ,go to the courts and sort it out ,that what they are there for ,
I work at music and dont judge till I know all the facts ,my direct email is cavanmusiclive@gmail.com if anyone wants to send me the FACTS that will sort this mess out ...
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
TYPO in First post
Hello All ,i am a friends with both people inside and outside the whole Clasac problem ,I dont know the real story ,and I WAS TOLD TWO SIDES ,so until the real story comes out and why this not happened yet withall the publicity about it ,go to the courts and sort it out ,that what they are there for ,
I work at music and dont judge till I know all the facts ,my direct email is cavanmusiclive@gmail.com if anyone wants to send me the FACTS that will sort this mess out ...
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
People taking pot shots in the vein of your last post reveal a lot about themselves Martin.
Anyhow, there are indeed two sides to this miserable saga. One side has put in work and time to make the building of Clasac a reality. it is this side that feels the fruit of their labours taken away from them and it is this side that has time and again asked for a resolution to the problem by independent arbitration.
Then there's the other side, the side who is secretive about it's motives, who refuses to bring into the open the motives behind their actions, who refuse independent arbitration, who have expelled many committed workers from their organisation.
Taking the facility of Clasac into use, hailing activities there without working towards a resolution to this mess and closing your eyes, or refusing to see, what makes doing so so divisive in the eyes of many is as good as taking sides in this conflict. And for that Martin, indeed, shame on you.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
My apologies Martin if I caused offence. Was being very much tongue-in-cheek earlier. Just thought it was amusing how the very worthwhile and interesting subject-matter of you're post was being completely ignored because of 'The Troubles' in Clontarf. What was this post about again, something about singing and Danu??
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Whatever about "'The Troubles' in Clontarf" which are obviously complex and won't be resolved here I was very disappointed with the "shoot the messenger" attitude of some of the posts so far. Martin was publicising a very novel, exciting and worthwhile project in all good faith and in no way deserves the opprobrium directed at him and in particular the threats to his NYAH festival, one of the finest trad events of the year both for musicians and audiences.
The new traditional Irish choir project is being headed up by a highly talented musician and long-term member of Danú and I for one would be the last person to question Tom Doorley's integrity - if he's OK with the project then that's good enough for me. In any case why deprive ourselves of the use of such an excellent trad facility as Clasac while we await the resolution of this long-running dispute.
My advice would be that we can't have too many Ó Riada type choirs and if you enjoy this type of thing, then go along on Thursday, 26th February - opportunities like this don't come along too often!
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Tom Doorley is also a long time flute teacher in CCE Headquarters in Monkstown! Need I say more. Its people like Bannerman and MD that have their heads in the sand I'm afraid.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
what a day ,emails and even a phone call warning me to be carefull what I say and I should not be seen taking sides as this will go against me ????? in the future with certain families in the music ,
So what do i do ??
thanks to a certain lady who sent me info on one side of the fence or should I say wall and made a good case .as I studied Law in my past life ,it isa complex story ,
I have never been in the building and no bookings in the diary for 2009/10
my post was to highlight an event ,and post events and highlight events is what I do on this list
I have upset friends new and old and have no option but to sign off now .
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I don't think you should sign off Martin. If anything this shows just how divisive the issue has become but vilifying people has been done enough, to the point of exclusion, and I for one would not like to go this route.
I think you made an error of judgement in ignoring or underestimating the divisiveness caused by the forced exclusion of Clonarf CCE but vilifying you as a person would go against the spirit of resolution that some of us feel should be applied to the issue.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
The diissolved branch of Clontarf CCE have remained united (except for a small number of people either employed by CCE or members of the ard comhairle) they call themselves Ceóltóirí Cluain Tarbh to encourage the 120 or so junior musicians to continue to play together and attend fleadhs etc untill this issue has been resolved.
. Instead of being able to meet in Clasac they rent Marino College for classes and St Josephs Parish Centre Raheny for ceili band and grúpa practice. This is quite expensive,esp the insurance costs. Informal sessiuns are also held in family homes for the various age groups so the music continues to flourish
Visit www.cluaintarbh.net for details of social events and background to the dissolution.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin I tried to post a blog having read all the above nonsense.First one doesn't seem to have got through.
Your right to post information is now being questioned and by whom ? By what?
"Need I say more" that yoke says about Tom , and that You, Tom and Bannerman have your collective heads in the sand.
Yes indeed "it ", need say more and starting with SORRY .
Tom has lived abroad for years, so is not a "long time flute teacher".( Martin, what is a long time flute anyway?)
Whilst members of their group are looking for sympathy, others among them have been known to play in Comhaltas concerts and teach in Units of Comhaltas. Wherever your heads are ,Martin, they are most definitely not in the sand although one might be forgiven for believing that their heads are firmly planted in other parts of their anatomies.
They won't be welcome they assert . They're NOT welcome they allege. They're Morally Uncomfortable.
Have any of them been excluded from Cor Clasac?
No !!! I didn't think so.
Morally uncomfortable ??? With what exactly ? A Choir??
Get real ...A Comhaltas Choir Ah, thats it. It's got Comhaltas connections . Ugh Ugh Comhaltas connections Like Fleadheanna Cheoil Atha Cliath, Laighean agus Eireann. Remember those events , Comhaltas events, that for some strange reason there is no "Moral Discomfort", with participating in.
For the benefit of the genius that questioned "D2" it was in fact D3 (We Northsiders are all picky on that one) and it was, from,what I can gather, by agreement with the Dublin Board of CCE and their group.
Martin I don't think they're shooting the messenger, I think they're looking for hugs but they don't deserve them. Send them to bed with no supper I say
Nyah, will I'm sure miss, those who chose to be meanies to Martin , but not much.
Martin , you, Tom Doorley and indeed Bannerman don't need to be defended. You have all advanced the cause of Traditional Irish Music and have done that all your lives.
Hysterical Whingers on The Session .Org will not diminish the regard in which you are held.
Keep up the good work
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
byrne from your post and your 'whinge about whingers' on your page there you make it sound like changing something like CCE is relatively easy. it isnt just a matter of 'joining and chaning from the inside'. im sure you probably know about the CCE hierarchy, labhras was not elected and therefore cannot be uspurped by anyone. he has last say on everything so any amount of effort will be fruitless, thats even if you get anywhere near the ard comhairle which impossible unless you blindly agree with everything they or labhras does.
of course there are people who sympathise with Clontarf and are still in comhaltas, my local branch being one, but the simple fact of the matter is is that they NEED the funding that CCE brings (after going through the red tape of course). clontarf is lucky because it is so strong it can survive on its own. also the kids want to take part in competition still and enjoy the banter that is involved in going to these festivals. why berate them?
brendan breathnach (a man who did more for music than CCE) said that CCE is an organisation with a great future behind it. you say that CCE's merits outweigh its negatives. maybe this was true 20 or 30 years ago. it is an organisation that still peddles ideas that wer eonly relevent at the time it was founded and they have not evolved over time, labhras's time incharge evidence of this. does it not bother you that he earns a massive wage with comhaltas along with his wage as a senator? in a time of recession?
why do you think so many people give out about cce? it is not a case of 'whingers' or begrudgers if so many people feel the same way. the reason why people give out about them is because there is so much to give out about!! yes cce intentions are good, but they are disllusioned in how they go about them. you may not like this and go on another rant but what can i say, the truth hurts.
people are not morally uncomfortable about being in a choir do you honestly think that? they would feel uncomfortable because of the smash and grab actions of CCE in regards to the building. of course clontarf havent been 'excluded' from clasac but ( im not sure how much you know about the situation so dont take it in a bad way if i start explaing stuff) they feel it would not be right if they used the building after being so harshly treated by CCE.
oh and i was the genius who DIDNT 'question' D2 or D3 whatever it was. i know for a fact that this was changed without the knowledge of the groups so make of that what you will.
i do agree though that martin shouldn't be castigated for advertising this choir. people dont HAVE to go.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
You know, I actually agreed with kilfarboy when he said "there are indeed two sides to this miserable saga. One side has put in work and time to make the building of Clasac a reality."
Of course, then I kept reading, and realised he wasn't talking about who I thought he was!
Anyway, I plan on joining the choir -- sounds like fun. And I'm also quite certain that no-one is being excluded. In point of fact, the people in question weren't "kicked out of Comhaltas", either -- all remained members in full standing as I understand it. Then when the October membership deadline came 'round again, some decided to stay with Comhaltas and some let their membership lapse, same decision that all of us make every year.
And I'm sure it's completely beyond mentioning at this point that the Comhaltas Congress (made up of the directly elected representatives of branches around the world) unanimously approved the actions of the Ardchomhairle with regard to Clontarf .... http://comhaltas.ie/press_room/detail/clontarf/ . Hardly some sort of lone power-grab!
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
As I understand it, the central authority of CCE is a self-perpetuating oligarchy answerable to no-one, and the position of the head of the organisation, as both a salaried post as well as a top politician in the country, makes him and his cronies almost unassailable.
The unilateral take-over of a centre funded by the strenuous efforts of the local group, who have now been effectively banned from any further use of their own building, would be a national scandal in some countries.
Expressions such as "banana republic" come to mind.
I fail to understand why legal action has not been taken to restore use of the building to those who built it.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Sorry, but who says they're banned? Who says they raised the money? Who says it's their building? Why is it that the people in Clontarf who worked the hardest for the project, for the longest period of time, are supporting the Ardchomhairle's decision? And I'm talking about the ones out there selling raffle tickets, out there organising bake sales, out there lobbying in a million and one ways to make this dream happen. They're not the ones who were elected a couple of years ago to a committee and are now taking such umbrage that their so-important positions were disrespected.
I hate to say it, but there is a serious disinformation campaign going out there. I understand why: we all like the underdog. We all like to believe that The Man is trying to stick it to the little guy. I love those narratives, and I'd love to believe that some big evil organisation was trying to systematically stamp out some feisty little opposition party. I'd sign up. But I'm sorry -- in this case it just ain't so. Take the egos out the equation, and the self-righteousness, and there just ain't that much to go on.
What's this "answerable to no one" all about? If you don't like the way things are run, elect someone else to the executive! And those newly-elected committee members could replace the Director tomorrow if they wanted -- what's to stop 'em? Comhaltas is numbingly democratic .... I sometimes wish we were the sort of merciless autocracy that some seem to think -- we'd probably get a lot more done! But you've got an elected and democratic and sometimes ponderous structure, with all of its faults, that (at least in this case) pursued a reasoned course and came out with the right answer. I'm sorry, but there it is. And you're disrespecting the multitudes of unsung heroes working their tails off to make it all happen by saying otherwise.
I'm going to stop writing now -- I just wish some of these people with their solemn indignant oaths would just stop in to Clasaċ sometime for a cup of tea and a chat. It's really quite a nice and welcoming place.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I should apologise for that last comment - I don't mean to say bad things about the motivations of the committee and their whispering campaign. I'm sure they feel their cause is just or, at least they don't feel they themselves are wrong. It's just incredibly frustrating to see that a group of people who claim to represent the broad interests of the North Dublin community are now doing their level best to make sure that the community doesn't use a building created at public expense specifically as an affordable and attractive centre for community life.
The ones doing the whispering seem to be doing their best to undercut a project which they claim to have championed. They themselves championed it as a Comhaltas Regional Resource Centre, which it now is. They championed it as a multi-function centre for the people of North Dublin, which it now is. They championed it as a project to bring a contemporary and serious approach to the stewardship of a sometimes-quaint and sometimes-reviled tradition. It's all of that. They championed it as a home for their own branch, which it would be if they just cared to show up.
Why do they want it to fail so badly? Why are they discouraging all sorts of folks from using the building? Why don't they themselves come for a session and take part in the life of the building -- it was built for them! For them! It makes no sense to me. They've won. They have a building devoted to their causes, created for them, open to all. Comhaltas had to borrow a lot of money from the bank in order to make it work, but it worked. It's open. It's ready for the whisperers to walk in and take a bow and talk about how they've been working so hard, how they raised that crucial 1% of the building budget with bake sales and raffles.
Sigh. It's just really frustrating for me. I guess none of us wants to be wrong. But why work so hard to make sure that your own project doesn't succeed? Nothing's changed from the time when the committee was on board and cheerleading for the project. No deed changed hands, no lease was re-negotiated, no eminent domain declared. Everything on the project has gone exactly as the committee wanted it to, except that the parent organisation had to borrow a lot of money to cover debts. So what? The committee doesn't even have that financial liability now because Comhaltas footed the bill when contractors were going unpaid. Anyone would have to think that it was a brilliant stroke to get someone else to take over the debt. Why don't they come in and celebrate now? Maybe it isn't really about the project at all?
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
'b' Breandán was employed in headquarters cce Monkstown this time last year when the Clontarf Branch was dissolved,when the issue was being dissussed on this site and Mudcat he was used by headquarters to post 'the party line'in reply to all queries,so he is hardly impartial. Breandán knows members of the Ard Comhairle and the Dublin County Board were not given all the facts before the branch was dissolved
.http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=109486&messages=561#2297325
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
'b' who spends too much time in Monkstown reading too many Treoir magazines. Could you climb out of Labhras's ass 'B' for long enough to give non-patronising and non-dismissive comments. Thanks for that.
'Who is in this months edition of Treoir? more old people with Labhras. Oh okay, and who is in next months edition? More old people with Labhras.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
There's a simple solution to your questions Brendan: transparency, openness and independent arbitration that looks at facts. That would lay the whole matter to rest.
If all is as clean-cut as you suggest why deny the old committee that route?
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hello All ,Friend or foe
just a big thanks to all who textd and emailed off line to say to keep the faith also thanks to all who who give adice from both sides of the camp .
I see from the new treoir mag ,which nyah festival has an add in ,and a paid add, in case anyone thinks we got favours
that Kieran Hanrahan from Clare Musician /Composer /Techer and broadcaster has taken on the the job of promoter for Clasac .
anyway http://ww,cavanmusic.com has the updated festival news . and wish to say the old and new branch faces are all welcome.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Kieran Hanrahan of course presented Ceili House on RTE and he and his brother Mike were in Stockton's Wing together. Mike has since gone on to chair IMRO and was deputy chair when CCE and IMRO reached agreement regarding the payment of royalties on traditional music.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Oh God are we in for another series of Conspiracy theories .
Tom Doorley , your good self and now Kieran Hanrahan all with hidden agendae. Ye all enjoy Irish Traditional Music instead of suffering it.
Hey Martin, now that Kieran's involved , d'ye think we should call Clasac Stockton's Thing
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I have said this before on another forum, but it is worth repeating here, especially in the present climate. Also the position of Uachtaran of Comhaltas becomes vacant this May. There are at least 2 candidates who have their hats in the ring. Vincent Jordan and Seamus McCormack. I would like to hear the views of these two gentlemen regarding the Clasac controversy. I am sure that the many thousands of visitors to this discussion forum (which include Comhaltas members, like myself), would like to read them also. Can anyone bring this to their attention??
___________________________________________________________
Many people who read this thread and many thousands more who dont, work very hard to promote Irish Traditional Music and song. Many organise and run small festivals, both within and outside of the Comhaltas organisation. Organisers can apply for funding from various organisations, Local Authority Arts department, The Arts Council, Fáilte Ireland, etc.
When they apply, or enquire about these grants they will be informed of the criteria by which they will be eligible. In most cases the rules and requirements will be freely available and accessable.
They will make an application, outlining in detail the plans for the event, budget, organisers, and many other details.
Does this sound familiar so far??
If the application is successful, you will be informed of how the grant will be paid, ie half before and the remainder after the event, ON PRODUCTION OF FULL ACCOUNTS AND A DETAILED REPORT.
The funding bodies publish lists of successfull applicants
All very hard work you'll agree, but fair - very fair. You make your pitch and if it is deserving and if the money is there you will get grant aid.
Among its other duties, the newly established Meitheal regional organisations are tasked with distributing C.C.E. within the organisation.
Is the Meitheal organisation elected by the members? No.
Do they publish guidelines for who can apply? No.
Do they publish the application criteria? No.
Is there an application form? No.
How is the grant paid out and when? Well we dont know.
Do Metheal insist on a detailed set of income and expenditure accounts? Dont know?
Do C.C.E. publish a list of successfull applicants? No.
See what i'm getting to? There is no accountability. The money is a personal slush fund to be distributed as the old guard desires. Any branch who don't toe the line or dare to criticise the Old Guard, will simply be ignored re funding. Oh and dont forget to invite the old guard to the launch banquet also or else!! And remember folks this is YOUR money. Your hard earned taxes. Before a hundred of you jump down my throat, I am not saying that the branches or the event organisers don't deserve their funds.
I am saying that if the systems, checks and balances are not there then it will be corrupt. It has to be by human nature. I hope that someone reading this will bring this situation to the attention of the relevant government department, or perhaps someone from Comhaltas HQ can enlighten us further
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
i can assure you knight_high, from what ive heard recently the sh*t is REALLY about to hit the fan and certain people in CCE, ie: Chairman 'Lao' and other back scratchers will be brought to the frontline. Just wait and see.
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Threads like this really depress me.
Comhaltas to me is the Monday night club where the kids learn to play & there will hopefully be a session afterwards, or at the very least a chance to catch up with friends.
I've never been all that keen on the broader organisation. Even taking potential corruption out of the picture I'm not that keen onall the competitions etc.
In my view the competitions have a deleterious effect on branch activities, after xmas the focus is increasingly on getting ceili & grupa ceol arrangements together and practice for performance dominates learning to play music for its own sake. (Although others will agrue that the kids really enjoy the competitions and are more motivated to learn). The whole ethos of trad Irish music is that it is a normal part of life, not some (bi-, tr-)annual event on stage with practice inbetween.
Personally I'd be much happier if "Comhaltas" was just a loose association of individual branches that came together for informal musical shindigs every now and then.
Threads such as this just re-enforce my feelings on this.
Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hi all
Please find attached details of a new venture in Clasac - I know not
all of you live in the greater Dublin area, but if you have friends or
relatives working or going to college perhaps you could let them know.
A warm welcome and a night of good fun is guaranteed.
Clasac Interested in joining an innovative
new traditional Irish choir?
A cross between
Cór Chúl Aodha & Voice Squad
Introductory meeting:
Thursday 26 Feb 2009 at 7.30pm
Clasac
Alfie Byrne Road, Clontarf
Contact:
Gach eolas ó: 836 3060
cor@clasac.ie
clasac are privileged to have Tom Doorley, member of Danú, as their Director and Conductor. Tom is widely regarded amongst musicians as a master flautist, who is known for his wild and unpredictable melodic
and harmonic variations and for his tenderness of treatment in playing for songs. He is excited about this new, innovative project with and encourages all interested traditional singers to come along and participate.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
So far for solidarity with disbanded Cluan Tairbh
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
All welcome? Are you sure?
I'd say there are a hundred or so local to that area that would be less than welcome... or else they wouldn't have been kicked out by CCE in the first place.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by O'Neill1001
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Bloody disgrace. I live in Clontarf but unfortunately will not be able to support this, or any venture, being held in Clasac.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by mariaphilmurphy
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Same here. Grave robbers.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by KOSully
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Its the same me fein attitude that has the country in the state's its in. All for one? I don't think so! Not the Fianna Fail or Comhaltas way
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by mariaphilmurphy
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Yeah and Martin, you're the messenger so you deserve to be vilified for daring to pass on this information! Shame on you.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by macc
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin we were looking forward to spending a few days in Cavan at the 'Nyah' festival but in view of your promotion of this event in Clasac which excludes all the ex members of Clontarf CCE (who fund raised for this building for 10 years) and those who supported them,we will now not be supporting your weekend!
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by dílis
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin, Tom,
Sounds like a great initiative. But do you not realise that there is a ongoing dispute that has resulted in the exclusion of hundreds of the people from Comhaltas - the parent organisation of Clasac?
Surely you could find another location until this dispute is resolved. I think that you can get a flavour of the divisiveness and the strong feelings in the ITM community resulting from this dispute from the posts on this topic. It would be a real shame for such a potentially lovely project to be the cause of a greater escalation of this dispute with more bitterness and bad feeling. It sounds too good for that!
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by An Rogaire Dubh
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Sad to see that some things never change. I belong to two associations who hate each other's guts.
D'you know what? It might not be easy, but it is perfectly possible to disagree and agree with the same person/people on different subjects.
I can't know all the politics of this, not living in Ireland or being in any way involved in comhaltas, but from my understanding of the situation, the majority of posts above, while quite understandable (I mean this very seriously) are also posturing in a ridiculous way:
"I imagine a hundred or so would be less than welcome..."
Does this help solve anything? Is it by any stretch of the imagination true? I mean it would shed a whole new light on the issue if it were true that comhaltas (as a whole, that is to say all its members) had taken a personal dislike to all the members of Cluan Tairbh and that they were thus in all perpetuity no longer welcome in Clasac.
Where does it stop? Should you cross to the other side of the street when you meet someone from the opposing faction.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by Tirno
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
What a lovely project please please change the venue as i am precluded from attending any events in Clasac, despite having 'bought a brick' in the fund raising campaign,and having paid my family membership, and fees for classes for 3 children for the 2008 which was never refunded when Comhaltas headquarters dissolved the Clontarf Branch.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by timpat
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
actually tirno, comhaltas and labhras and the ard comhairle actually DO have a dislike of Clontarf and they have shown this on the many occassions that the members of Clontarf have tried to resolve their differences, only to be ignored and rebuffed numerous times.
if anyone it is comhaltas who is being vindictive. Clontarf members have tried too many times to have an impartial moderator to help proceedings but CCE have denied them their right to a fair hearing, and subsequently breaking their own laws as seen in the bunreacht.
it is a sad situation but it is reality. even last year at the leinster fleadh CCE deemed to call the Clontarf branch 'D2' (Dublin 2) in the programme despite having submitted their proper name. This one situation is clearly showing CCE's dislike of Clontarf and also shows their attempts at sweeping them under the carpet and denying them an identity. Luckily for Clontarf they are thriving without comhltas's help.
# Posted on February 18th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hello All ,i am a friends with both people inside and outside the whole Clasac problem ,I dont the real story ,and I WAS TOLD TWO SIDES ,so until the real story comes out and why this not happened yet withall the publicity about it ,go to the courts and sort it out ,that what they are there for ,
I work at music and dont judge till I know all the facts ,my direct email is cavanmusiclive@gmail.com if anyone wants to send me the FACTS that will sort this mess out ...
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
TYPO in First post
Hello All ,i am a friends with both people inside and outside the whole Clasac problem ,I dont know the real story ,and I WAS TOLD TWO SIDES ,so until the real story comes out and why this not happened yet withall the publicity about it ,go to the courts and sort it out ,that what they are there for ,
I work at music and dont judge till I know all the facts ,my direct email is cavanmusiclive@gmail.com if anyone wants to send me the FACTS that will sort this mess out ...
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Macc
Who are you to say shame on me
Who are you ?/ boy ,girl mouse ???
share your name or have you a fear that I MIGHT NEVER HAVE HEARD OF YOU , HA HA
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
People taking pot shots in the vein of your last post reveal a lot about themselves Martin.
Anyhow, there are indeed two sides to this miserable saga. One side has put in work and time to make the building of Clasac a reality. it is this side that feels the fruit of their labours taken away from them and it is this side that has time and again asked for a resolution to the problem by independent arbitration.
Then there's the other side, the side who is secretive about it's motives, who refuses to bring into the open the motives behind their actions, who refuse independent arbitration, who have expelled many committed workers from their organisation.
Taking the facility of Clasac into use, hailing activities there without working towards a resolution to this mess and closing your eyes, or refusing to see, what makes doing so so divisive in the eyes of many is as good as taking sides in this conflict. And for that Martin, indeed, shame on you.
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
My apologies Martin if I caused offence. Was being very much tongue-in-cheek earlier. Just thought it was amusing how the very worthwhile and interesting subject-matter of you're post was being completely ignored because of 'The Troubles' in Clontarf. What was this post about again, something about singing and Danu??
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by macc
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Whatever about "'The Troubles' in Clontarf" which are obviously complex and won't be resolved here I was very disappointed with the "shoot the messenger" attitude of some of the posts so far. Martin was publicising a very novel, exciting and worthwhile project in all good faith and in no way deserves the opprobrium directed at him and in particular the threats to his NYAH festival, one of the finest trad events of the year both for musicians and audiences.
The new traditional Irish choir project is being headed up by a highly talented musician and long-term member of Danú and I for one would be the last person to question Tom Doorley's integrity - if he's OK with the project then that's good enough for me. In any case why deprive ourselves of the use of such an excellent trad facility as Clasac while we await the resolution of this long-running dispute.
My advice would be that we can't have too many Ó Riada type choirs and if you enjoy this type of thing, then go along on Thursday, 26th February - opportunities like this don't come along too often!
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Tom Doorley is also a long time flute teacher in CCE Headquarters in Monkstown! Need I say more. Its people like Bannerman and MD that have their heads in the sand I'm afraid.
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by mariaphilmurphy
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Kilfarboy - you the man! The nail on the head as usual.
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by mariaphilmurphy
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
what a day ,emails and even a phone call warning me to be carefull what I say and I should not be seen taking sides as this will go against me ????? in the future with certain families in the music ,
So what do i do ??
thanks to a certain lady who sent me info on one side of the fence or should I say wall and made a good case .as I studied Law in my past life ,it isa complex story ,
I have never been in the building and no bookings in the diary for 2009/10
my post was to highlight an event ,and post events and highlight events is what I do on this list
I have upset friends new and old and have no option but to sign off now .
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I don't think you should sign off Martin. If anything this shows just how divisive the issue has become but vilifying people has been done enough, to the point of exclusion, and I for one would not like to go this route.
I think you made an error of judgement in ignoring or underestimating the divisiveness caused by the forced exclusion of Clonarf CCE but vilifying you as a person would go against the spirit of resolution that some of us feel should be applied to the issue.
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
The diissolved branch of Clontarf CCE have remained united (except for a small number of people either employed by CCE or members of the ard comhairle) they call themselves Ceóltóirí Cluain Tarbh to encourage the 120 or so junior musicians to continue to play together and attend fleadhs etc untill this issue has been resolved.
. Instead of being able to meet in Clasac they rent Marino College for classes and St Josephs Parish Centre Raheny for ceili band and grúpa practice. This is quite expensive,esp the insurance costs. Informal sessiuns are also held in family homes for the various age groups so the music continues to flourish
Visit www.cluaintarbh.net for details of social events and background to the dissolution.
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by dílis
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Martin I tried to post a blog having read all the above nonsense.First one doesn't seem to have got through.
Your right to post information is now being questioned and by whom ? By what?
"Need I say more" that yoke says about Tom , and that You, Tom and Bannerman have your collective heads in the sand.
Yes indeed "it ", need say more and starting with SORRY .
Tom has lived abroad for years, so is not a "long time flute teacher".( Martin, what is a long time flute anyway?)
Whilst members of their group are looking for sympathy, others among them have been known to play in Comhaltas concerts and teach in Units of Comhaltas. Wherever your heads are ,Martin, they are most definitely not in the sand although one might be forgiven for believing that their heads are firmly planted in other parts of their anatomies.
They won't be welcome they assert . They're NOT welcome they allege. They're Morally Uncomfortable.
Have any of them been excluded from Cor Clasac?
No !!! I didn't think so.
Morally uncomfortable ??? With what exactly ? A Choir??
Get real ...A Comhaltas Choir Ah, thats it. It's got Comhaltas connections . Ugh Ugh Comhaltas connections Like Fleadheanna Cheoil Atha Cliath, Laighean agus Eireann. Remember those events , Comhaltas events, that for some strange reason there is no "Moral Discomfort", with participating in.
For the benefit of the genius that questioned "D2" it was in fact D3 (We Northsiders are all picky on that one) and it was, from,what I can gather, by agreement with the Dublin Board of CCE and their group.
Martin I don't think they're shooting the messenger, I think they're looking for hugs but they don't deserve them. Send them to bed with no supper I say
Nyah, will I'm sure miss, those who chose to be meanies to Martin , but not much.
Martin , you, Tom Doorley and indeed Bannerman don't need to be defended. You have all advanced the cause of Traditional Irish Music and have done that all your lives.
Hysterical Whingers on The Session .Org will not diminish the regard in which you are held.
Keep up the good work
# Posted on February 19th 2009 by Byrne
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
byrne from your post and your 'whinge about whingers' on your page there you make it sound like changing something like CCE is relatively easy. it isnt just a matter of 'joining and chaning from the inside'. im sure you probably know about the CCE hierarchy, labhras was not elected and therefore cannot be uspurped by anyone. he has last say on everything so any amount of effort will be fruitless, thats even if you get anywhere near the ard comhairle which impossible unless you blindly agree with everything they or labhras does.
of course there are people who sympathise with Clontarf and are still in comhaltas, my local branch being one, but the simple fact of the matter is is that they NEED the funding that CCE brings (after going through the red tape of course). clontarf is lucky because it is so strong it can survive on its own. also the kids want to take part in competition still and enjoy the banter that is involved in going to these festivals. why berate them?
brendan breathnach (a man who did more for music than CCE) said that CCE is an organisation with a great future behind it. you say that CCE's merits outweigh its negatives. maybe this was true 20 or 30 years ago. it is an organisation that still peddles ideas that wer eonly relevent at the time it was founded and they have not evolved over time, labhras's time incharge evidence of this. does it not bother you that he earns a massive wage with comhaltas along with his wage as a senator? in a time of recession?
why do you think so many people give out about cce? it is not a case of 'whingers' or begrudgers if so many people feel the same way. the reason why people give out about them is because there is so much to give out about!! yes cce intentions are good, but they are disllusioned in how they go about them. you may not like this and go on another rant but what can i say, the truth hurts.
people are not morally uncomfortable about being in a choir do you honestly think that? they would feel uncomfortable because of the smash and grab actions of CCE in regards to the building. of course clontarf havent been 'excluded' from clasac but ( im not sure how much you know about the situation so dont take it in a bad way if i start explaing stuff) they feel it would not be right if they used the building after being so harshly treated by CCE.
oh and i was the genius who DIDNT 'question' D2 or D3 whatever it was. i know for a fact that this was changed without the knowledge of the groups so make of that what you will.
i do agree though that martin shouldn't be castigated for advertising this choir. people dont HAVE to go.
# Posted on February 20th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
You know, I actually agreed with kilfarboy when he said "there are indeed two sides to this miserable saga. One side has put in work and time to make the building of Clasac a reality."
Of course, then I kept reading, and realised he wasn't talking about who I thought he was!
Anyway, I plan on joining the choir -- sounds like fun. And I'm also quite certain that no-one is being excluded. In point of fact, the people in question weren't "kicked out of Comhaltas", either -- all remained members in full standing as I understand it. Then when the October membership deadline came 'round again, some decided to stay with Comhaltas and some let their membership lapse, same decision that all of us make every year.
And I'm sure it's completely beyond mentioning at this point that the Comhaltas Congress (made up of the directly elected representatives of branches around the world) unanimously approved the actions of the Ardchomhairle with regard to Clontarf .... http://comhaltas.ie/press_room/detail/clontarf/ . Hardly some sort of lone power-grab!
<<ducks for cover>>
# Posted on February 20th 2009 by b
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
'I kept reading, and realised he wasn't talking about who I thought he was!'
Cluan Tairbh didn't put in ten years of organising and fundraising? Is that what you're trying to imply?
# Posted on February 20th 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
As I understand it, the central authority of CCE is a self-perpetuating oligarchy answerable to no-one, and the position of the head of the organisation, as both a salaried post as well as a top politician in the country, makes him and his cronies almost unassailable.
The unilateral take-over of a centre funded by the strenuous efforts of the local group, who have now been effectively banned from any further use of their own building, would be a national scandal in some countries.
Expressions such as "banana republic" come to mind.
I fail to understand why legal action has not been taken to restore use of the building to those who built it.
# Posted on February 20th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Sorry, but who says they're banned? Who says they raised the money? Who says it's their building? Why is it that the people in Clontarf who worked the hardest for the project, for the longest period of time, are supporting the Ardchomhairle's decision? And I'm talking about the ones out there selling raffle tickets, out there organising bake sales, out there lobbying in a million and one ways to make this dream happen. They're not the ones who were elected a couple of years ago to a committee and are now taking such umbrage that their so-important positions were disrespected.
I hate to say it, but there is a serious disinformation campaign going out there. I understand why: we all like the underdog. We all like to believe that The Man is trying to stick it to the little guy. I love those narratives, and I'd love to believe that some big evil organisation was trying to systematically stamp out some feisty little opposition party. I'd sign up. But I'm sorry -- in this case it just ain't so. Take the egos out the equation, and the self-righteousness, and there just ain't that much to go on.
What's this "answerable to no one" all about? If you don't like the way things are run, elect someone else to the executive! And those newly-elected committee members could replace the Director tomorrow if they wanted -- what's to stop 'em? Comhaltas is numbingly democratic .... I sometimes wish we were the sort of merciless autocracy that some seem to think -- we'd probably get a lot more done! But you've got an elected and democratic and sometimes ponderous structure, with all of its faults, that (at least in this case) pursued a reasoned course and came out with the right answer. I'm sorry, but there it is. And you're disrespecting the multitudes of unsung heroes working their tails off to make it all happen by saying otherwise.
I'm going to stop writing now -- I just wish some of these people with their solemn indignant oaths would just stop in to Clasaċ sometime for a cup of tea and a chat. It's really quite a nice and welcoming place.
# Posted on February 20th 2009 by b
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I should apologise for that last comment - I don't mean to say bad things about the motivations of the committee and their whispering campaign. I'm sure they feel their cause is just or, at least they don't feel they themselves are wrong. It's just incredibly frustrating to see that a group of people who claim to represent the broad interests of the North Dublin community are now doing their level best to make sure that the community doesn't use a building created at public expense specifically as an affordable and attractive centre for community life.
The ones doing the whispering seem to be doing their best to undercut a project which they claim to have championed. They themselves championed it as a Comhaltas Regional Resource Centre, which it now is. They championed it as a multi-function centre for the people of North Dublin, which it now is. They championed it as a project to bring a contemporary and serious approach to the stewardship of a sometimes-quaint and sometimes-reviled tradition. It's all of that. They championed it as a home for their own branch, which it would be if they just cared to show up.
Why do they want it to fail so badly? Why are they discouraging all sorts of folks from using the building? Why don't they themselves come for a session and take part in the life of the building -- it was built for them! For them! It makes no sense to me. They've won. They have a building devoted to their causes, created for them, open to all. Comhaltas had to borrow a lot of money from the bank in order to make it work, but it worked. It's open. It's ready for the whisperers to walk in and take a bow and talk about how they've been working so hard, how they raised that crucial 1% of the building budget with bake sales and raffles.
Sigh. It's just really frustrating for me. I guess none of us wants to be wrong. But why work so hard to make sure that your own project doesn't succeed? Nothing's changed from the time when the committee was on board and cheerleading for the project. No deed changed hands, no lease was re-negotiated, no eminent domain declared. Everything on the project has gone exactly as the committee wanted it to, except that the parent organisation had to borrow a lot of money to cover debts. So what? The committee doesn't even have that financial liability now because Comhaltas footed the bill when contractors were going unpaid. Anyone would have to think that it was a brilliant stroke to get someone else to take over the debt. Why don't they come in and celebrate now? Maybe it isn't really about the project at all?
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by b
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
'b' Breandán was employed in headquarters cce Monkstown this time last year when the Clontarf Branch was dissolved,when the issue was being dissussed on this site and Mudcat he was used by headquarters to post 'the party line'in reply to all queries,so he is hardly impartial. Breandán knows members of the Ard Comhairle and the Dublin County Board were not given all the facts before the branch was dissolved
.http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=109486&messages=561#2297325
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by timpat
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/17108/comments#comment357363
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by timpat
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
'b' who spends too much time in Monkstown reading too many Treoir magazines. Could you climb out of Labhras's ass 'B' for long enough to give non-patronising and non-dismissive comments. Thanks for that.
'Who is in this months edition of Treoir? more old people with Labhras. Oh okay, and who is in next months edition? More old people with Labhras.
Rivetting...
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
There's a simple solution to your questions Brendan: transparency, openness and independent arbitration that looks at facts. That would lay the whole matter to rest.
If all is as clean-cut as you suggest why deny the old committee that route?
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Hello All ,Friend or foe
just a big thanks to all who textd and emailed off line to say to keep the faith also thanks to all who who give adice from both sides of the camp .
I see from the new treoir mag ,which nyah festival has an add in ,and a paid add, in case anyone thinks we got favours
that Kieran Hanrahan from Clare Musician /Composer /Techer and broadcaster has taken on the the job of promoter for Clasac .
anyway http://ww,cavanmusic.com has the updated festival news . and wish to say the old and new branch faces are all welcome.
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Kieran Hanrahan of course presented Ceili House on RTE and he and his brother Mike were in Stockton's Wing together. Mike has since gone on to chair IMRO and was deputy chair when CCE and IMRO reached agreement regarding the payment of royalties on traditional music.
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Oh God are we in for another series of Conspiracy theories .
Tom Doorley , your good self and now Kieran Hanrahan all with hidden agendae. Ye all enjoy Irish Traditional Music instead of suffering it.
Hey Martin, now that Kieran's involved , d'ye think we should call Clasac Stockton's Thing
# Posted on February 21st 2009 by Byrne
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
I have said this before on another forum, but it is worth repeating here, especially in the present climate. Also the position of Uachtaran of Comhaltas becomes vacant this May. There are at least 2 candidates who have their hats in the ring. Vincent Jordan and Seamus McCormack. I would like to hear the views of these two gentlemen regarding the Clasac controversy. I am sure that the many thousands of visitors to this discussion forum (which include Comhaltas members, like myself), would like to read them also. Can anyone bring this to their attention??
___________________________________________________________
Many people who read this thread and many thousands more who dont, work very hard to promote Irish Traditional Music and song. Many organise and run small festivals, both within and outside of the Comhaltas organisation. Organisers can apply for funding from various organisations, Local Authority Arts department, The Arts Council, Fáilte Ireland, etc.
When they apply, or enquire about these grants they will be informed of the criteria by which they will be eligible. In most cases the rules and requirements will be freely available and accessable.
They will make an application, outlining in detail the plans for the event, budget, organisers, and many other details.
Does this sound familiar so far??
If the application is successful, you will be informed of how the grant will be paid, ie half before and the remainder after the event, ON PRODUCTION OF FULL ACCOUNTS AND A DETAILED REPORT.
The funding bodies publish lists of successfull applicants
All very hard work you'll agree, but fair - very fair. You make your pitch and if it is deserving and if the money is there you will get grant aid.
Among its other duties, the newly established Meitheal regional organisations are tasked with distributing C.C.E. within the organisation.
Is the Meitheal organisation elected by the members? No.
Do they publish guidelines for who can apply? No.
Do they publish the application criteria? No.
Is there an application form? No.
How is the grant paid out and when? Well we dont know.
Do Metheal insist on a detailed set of income and expenditure accounts? Dont know?
Do C.C.E. publish a list of successfull applicants? No.
See what i'm getting to? There is no accountability. The money is a personal slush fund to be distributed as the old guard desires. Any branch who don't toe the line or dare to criticise the Old Guard, will simply be ignored re funding. Oh and dont forget to invite the old guard to the launch banquet also or else!! And remember folks this is YOUR money. Your hard earned taxes. Before a hundred of you jump down my throat, I am not saying that the branches or the event organisers don't deserve their funds.
I am saying that if the systems, checks and balances are not there then it will be corrupt. It has to be by human nature. I hope that someone reading this will bring this situation to the attention of the relevant government department, or perhaps someone from Comhaltas HQ can enlighten us further
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by knightly
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
i can assure you knight_high, from what ive heard recently the sh*t is REALLY about to hit the fan and certain people in CCE, ie: Chairman 'Lao' and other back scratchers will be brought to the frontline. Just wait and see.
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: Clasac Ireland .Interested in joining an innovative new traditional Irish choir?
Threads like this really depress me.
Comhaltas to me is the Monday night club where the kids learn to play & there will hopefully be a session afterwards, or at the very least a chance to catch up with friends.
I've never been all that keen on the broader organisation. Even taking potential corruption out of the picture I'm not that keen onall the competitions etc.
In my view the competitions have a deleterious effect on branch activities, after xmas the focus is increasingly on getting ceili & grupa ceol arrangements together and practice for performance dominates learning to play music for its own sake. (Although others will agrue that the kids really enjoy the competitions and are more motivated to learn). The whole ethos of trad Irish music is that it is a normal part of life, not some (bi-, tr-)annual event on stage with practice inbetween.
Personally I'd be much happier if "Comhaltas" was just a loose association of individual branches that came together for informal musical shindigs every now and then.
Threads such as this just re-enforce my feelings on this.
- Chris
# Posted on February 23rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork