I checked some of these tunes and found the harmonizations universally bad. Like D7 chord with an F natural melody, or missing dominant chord before the last chord (on the major key tunes of course). They make a disclaimer about the chords as only suggestions but.... And there is no real attribution to O'Neill. I'm concerned about this and just wanted to pass the info on.
This from Frank Norberg on another list referring to it:
I thought many of you would like to know of this: http://www.freesheetmusic.net/
The site contains a complete mirror of all the files from the O'Neill
project converted into PDF and midi.
That's great of course but the problem is: the site presents the
transcriptions as their own with no mention of the source.
I'm not happy about this at all and I suspect others here aren't either.
I've just contacted the webmaster and asked him to fix the mistake (and
yes, I'm sure it's a honest mistake, not a deliberate attempt to mislead).
But what if he doesn't? What can we do?
The site's a member of several of my webrings and obviously that
won't last long unless something happens.
Also, the links at wikipedia have to be replaced with links to John's
O'Neill pages - or to a legitime mirror. That is something that should
be done anyway.
Beyond that? Any ideas?
In case somebody misunderstands me: I still believe abcs should be
freely distributed over the internet. Removing the byline from the files
is rude but normally I won't make an issue of it and I may well have
been guilty of doing so myself once or twice.
This, however, is different for a number of reasons:
1) The sheer scale of it
More than 4000 abc files reproduced without credits! More than 4500 if
we count the other tunes at the site (and we probably should).
2) This is a "professional" site, not a tunebook posted online by some
merry musicmaker.
3) This is a thoroughly commercial site
There is a huge difference between a site that posts free content to
draw people to the ads and one that posts ads to finance the free content.
4) Freesheetmusic.net is purely a parasite site.
As far as I can see, the site and the webmaster don't contribute
anything original, just reproductions of other people's hard work.
OK, so I can't spell O'Neill, but the issue still remains. Many folks, maybe too many but that's not the issue here, are paper trained players who seem to take the notation as sacred and correct no matter how bad it is. Here's a site providing just plain wrong chords for some of the best ITM collections around. Not a good thing. Check out
You have to keep in mind the the Old Music Project is a communal effort to transcribe several major collections for free availability. The site acknowledges there are errors and provides an opportunity to submit corrections.
The Old Music Project really is pretty important. Have you tried to get a copies of ONeill's or OCarolans complete? The pickings are slim because reprints are few and far between. When I tried to buy mine from Amazon, the first several places selling the Mel Bay version ended up refunding because they discovered they were out of stock. The Mel Bay which seems to more readily available, is very hard to read often.
It seems like the concern is over chord structure. I generally don't pay too much attention to them because I usually develop my own harmonization. After all, if you review O'Neills, the Chief wrote out only the melody line.
I have found to be the Old Music project generally pretty reliable and true to ONeill's which I now also have a copy of. I think that's the most important criteria..
I posted about this last week. Give nthe dire economy, Old Music Project which operates on donations is going belly up. So you might want to consider sending them some money as well as providing the benefit of your experience with some corrections.
The digital version of the aural tradition........
Having a quick look at the freesheetmusic.net site I don't believe they have removed the bylines in the abc transcription deliberately. I think it has disappeared through the software that generates the pdf files. The abc files themselves are not available - or I couldn't find them.
I have the abcm2ps software convert the abc automatically to generate the site and if you look at the sheet music the notes and transcription lines do not show up. You can turn them on in the software but I didn't because the abc text is immediately below the graphic. In the case af freesheetmusic.net it seems they just ran the abc's through the software with default settings and posted the pdf's that came out. Admittedly they have added chords but since I'm not a guitar player and don't have enough musical training to know any better I can't comment on those. It would be nice to see an acknowledgement for all the hard effort the transcribers put into the abc files themselves though.
Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
I checked some of these tunes and found the harmonizations universally bad. Like D7 chord with an F natural melody, or missing dominant chord before the last chord (on the major key tunes of course). They make a disclaimer about the chords as only suggestions but.... And there is no real attribution to O'Neill. I'm concerned about this and just wanted to pass the info on.
This from Frank Norberg on another list referring to it:
I thought many of you would like to know of this:
http://www.freesheetmusic.net/
The site contains a complete mirror of all the files from the O'Neill
project converted into PDF and midi.
That's great of course but the problem is: the site presents the
transcriptions as their own with no mention of the source.
I'm not happy about this at all and I suspect others here aren't either.
I've just contacted the webmaster and asked him to fix the mistake (and
yes, I'm sure it's a honest mistake, not a deliberate attempt to mislead).
But what if he doesn't? What can we do?
The site's a member of several of my webrings and obviously that
won't last long unless something happens.
Also, the links at wikipedia have to be replaced with links to John's
O'Neill pages - or to a legitime mirror. That is something that should
be done anyway.
Beyond that? Any ideas?
In case somebody misunderstands me: I still believe abcs should be
freely distributed over the internet. Removing the byline from the files
is rude but normally I won't make an issue of it and I may well have
been guilty of doing so myself once or twice.
This, however, is different for a number of reasons:
1) The sheer scale of it
More than 4000 abc files reproduced without credits! More than 4500 if
we count the other tunes at the site (and we probably should).
2) This is a "professional" site, not a tunebook posted online by some
merry musicmaker.
3) This is a thoroughly commercial site
There is a huge difference between a site that posts free content to
draw people to the ads and one that posts ads to finance the free content.
4) Freesheetmusic.net is purely a parasite site.
As far as I can see, the site and the webmaster don't contribute
anything original, just reproductions of other people's hard work.
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by cboody
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
I'm glad my problems seem tiny compared to yours.
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by banjoburger
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
What IS the link to "John's O'Neill pages"?
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by tomw
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
OK, so I can't spell O'Neill, but the issue still remains. Many folks, maybe too many but that's not the issue here, are paper trained players who seem to take the notation as sacred and correct no matter how bad it is. Here's a site providing just plain wrong chords for some of the best ITM collections around. Not a good thing. Check out
http://www.oldmusicproject.com/oneils1.html
for one other source of the collection (no chords)
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by cboody
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
Never mind, I think that I found it.
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by tomw
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
Argh!
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by samburnstone
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
You have to keep in mind the the Old Music Project is a communal effort to transcribe several major collections for free availability. The site acknowledges there are errors and provides an opportunity to submit corrections.
The Old Music Project really is pretty important. Have you tried to get a copies of ONeill's or OCarolans complete? The pickings are slim because reprints are few and far between. When I tried to buy mine from Amazon, the first several places selling the Mel Bay version ended up refunding because they discovered they were out of stock. The Mel Bay which seems to more readily available, is very hard to read often.
It seems like the concern is over chord structure. I generally don't pay too much attention to them because I usually develop my own harmonization. After all, if you review O'Neills, the Chief wrote out only the melody line.
I have found to be the Old Music project generally pretty reliable and true to ONeill's which I now also have a copy of. I think that's the most important criteria..
I posted about this last week. Give nthe dire economy, Old Music Project which operates on donations is going belly up. So you might want to consider sending them some money as well as providing the benefit of your experience with some corrections.
The digital version of the aural tradition........
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
Did I mess up that second parpagraph. The places I tried to get a non-Mel Bay version were out of stock.
# Posted on February 9th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Problems with O'Neils at Freesheetmusic.net
Having a quick look at the freesheetmusic.net site I don't believe they have removed the bylines in the abc transcription deliberately. I think it has disappeared through the software that generates the pdf files. The abc files themselves are not available - or I couldn't find them.
The O'Neill's collections are also hosted here
http://music.gordfisch.net/oregans/music/collections.php
I have the abcm2ps software convert the abc automatically to generate the site and if you look at the sheet music the notes and transcription lines do not show up. You can turn them on in the software but I didn't because the abc text is immediately below the graphic. In the case af freesheetmusic.net it seems they just ran the abc's through the software with default settings and posted the pdf's that came out. Admittedly they have added chords but since I'm not a guitar player and don't have enough musical training to know any better I can't comment on those. It would be nice to see an acknowledgement for all the hard effort the transcribers put into the abc files themselves though.
# Posted on February 10th 2009 by lildogturpy