Those of us who have been playing for any length of time have a repertoire of tunes that we can play.
By "play", I mean tunes that we would be capable of leading at a session, or be capable of following with reasonable competence if someone else were leading.
What inspired you to include these tunes in your repertoire?
Of course, many people are inspired from multiple sources. So I would be interested to know what your percentage was for each inspirational source.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
Sessions
Live performances
Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
A complication arises in that you might be inspired from one source, but actually learn from another. For example, you might hear a tune at a session, ask the name of it, then go home and learn the bones of it from a music score.
So I would also be interested to know what your percentage was for each learning source:
Learning Source
-----------------------
Sessions
Live performances
Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
As a beginner (of 3 years, but meandering to other musics), I only have about 30 tunes or so.
Most I learnt inspired by teachers and recordings
Most I learnt with the aid of sheetmusic.
This last year I have learnt several irish tunes and may others with no idea of what they look like in the dots, either from sessions or teachers/other musicians
I can't give a percentage, but the proportion of tunes I learn by ear from sessions compared to the proportion I learn from albums or "cold" from dots has definitely gone up.
This is both because I've got better at picking up stuff live by ear, and because I am no longer as keen as I was to ferret out tunes - I let them come to me, and sessions are where this happens!
I use the Tunes database mainly to check out the dots and midis of tunes I've heard in sessions but haven't been able to remember in detail and learn by ear from hearing them in that environment.
early years- recordings- no computers just LPs and Cassettes 70%
other musicians 30%
later years- Other Musicians 70%
"where DID i learn that tune?" 30% (the years have taken their toll on my memory)
learnt from dots -"The Reel of Mullinavat" How does that tune go??? oh yeaah, by the way, what's a midi file???
It's the only tune I've ever learned without having an aural reference. All my mates now play it. It's an interesting conundrum, do they play it better than me because they did have an aural source?
from OP: By "play", I mean tunes that we would be capable of leading at a session, or be capable of following with reasonable competence if someone else were leading.
Now, 0.01% is one tune in 10,000
If you know 10,000 tunes that well Michael, I salute you.
Yes pipewatcher, I found it while trawling through O'neil's, like you do. I actually think it's a scottish pipe tune, not that that matters. I don't think I play it very well, but I've played it a lot better since my mates started playing it.
80% from sessions
2% sitting down with a recording and deliberately learning the tune
18% from recordings that I heard so many times that at some point I forgot that I didn't know the tunes on them (maybe this is osmosis?)
Not fair that most of us only get 100% where llig gets 105%.
I wonder if there is a correlation between how people tend to learn their tunes and how many they manage to learn... I would think that people who rely on dots more would know far fewer tunes than those who pick them up in sessions. I don't want to start a "how big is yours" contest, but I'm curious to hear what you all think about that.
“A complication arises in that you might be inspired from one source, but actually learn from another.”
Further complications: I never hermetically seal any of my tunes in a vacuum (does anyone?) so while they may ‘come’ from somewhere, they never stop being influenced by what I hear.
But seriously, llig, I'm guessing that you would agree that those who rely on dots for new tunes are severely limiting how many tunes they will ultimately know? You might not know 10,000 tunes, but I bet you know upward of 2,000, and so do your mates, and so do a hell of a lot of people that learn tunes by listening.
Chrishty - I believe that you are correct when you say that people who learn by ear would tend to know more tunes.
But although sessions may be the best source to learn by ear, there are other sources for this - recordings, for example.
Speaking for myself, I also use yet another way. If there is a tune that I want to learn, and I have no session or recording source, I first find and download an abc file. I don't learn the tune directly from the abc, though. Neither do I convert the abc to dots and learn it from the music.
What I usually do is convert the abc into a midi file, and open it in a media player configured in repeat mode. The computer can the "play" the tune back to me in an endless loop, and I can "play along" with it until I have the basics of it in my head. Having got the basics of it, the computer goes off, and go on to work on it in the same way as I would any other tune.
another category might be "tunes you know, but just don't play because you don't like them" Subjective I know, but I , for one, have a few tunes which fall unanimously into that category
cheers,pipewatcher
(33)
QUESTION for Mix O'Lydian: Why is "workshops/teachers" not in the choices? Should that be collectively lumped into the "Fellow band member or other musicians" category? If so, my responses below:
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
30%....Sessions
0%......Live performances
40%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0%....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0%......Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0%......Midi files - Internet
0%......Printed tunebooks
0%......Original manuscripts
30%....Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
5%..Sessions
0%..........Live performances
45%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0%..Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0%....Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0%....Midi files - Internet
5%..Printed tunebooks
0%..........Original manuscripts
45%....Fellow band-member or other musician
Sort of hard to quantify, but something like this. The learning source is roughly averaged across the time I've been playing traditional music; at the beginning it was more tune-book heavy than it is now.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
40% Sessions
5% Live performances
35% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0% Midi files - Internet
5% Printed tunebooks
0% Original manuscripts
15% Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
25% Sessions
0% Live performances
15% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0% Midi files - Internet
20% Printed tunebooks
0% Original manuscripts
25% Fellow band-member or other musician
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
70%...Sessions
5%.....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
5%.....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15%...Fellow band-member or other musician
5%.....Workshops
Learning Source
-----------------------
40%...Sessions
20%...Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
5%.....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15%...Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
15%...Fellow band-member or other musician
5%.....Workshops
But really, the "Learning Source" is usually a conglomeration of all those things. I may learn a tune originally from a recording of a session, but then I'll look at the setting in the database here, and any other settings that people have put in the comments field. I'll troll through 5000 tracks of Irish that I have on my hard drive to find recordings of it. I'll look through YouTube, and see how other people are playing it. But the biggest refinement of the tune really comes over time by playing it with other people.
I learn tunes directly from somebody else fairly often, and come back a couple weeks later with a different setting (much to their chagrin)
SWFL: "Why would you want to learn a tune you've never heard before?" -- Nice try, but there is ONLY ONE LLIG!!! Anyway, I often hear a tune for the first time when it is played by a teacher at a workshop. So you could say that I am then learning a tune that I've never heard before (or at least, never *noticed* it, even though I may have heard it countless times).
Reverend: " 'Learning Source' is usually a conglomeration of all those things." -- Agreed.
"I may learn a tune originally from a recording of a session... ...I'll troll through 5000 tracks of Irish that I have on my hard drive to find recordings of it." -- Almost ditto. For me, I'll hear a tune that I like at a session, and then ask my session buddy what the name is, and either ask him/her to play it cleanly & slowly into my recorder ***AND/OR*** ferret through my collection of CDs, buy it off of iTunes, etc., in the comfort of my own home to find a setting to learn from.
Why would I want to learn a tune that I'd never heard before?
I wouldn't.
But if a listen to a midi file (albeit that the latter is a wooden computer-generated representation of the real thing), it's often enough to tell whether the thing is worthy of spending any more time on it or not. And if I think that it is, it might prompt me to search out a recording of it, or ask at a session if anyone knew it.
But what would prompt me to look for (or create) a midi file? Various things.
- Outside a session situation, someone might recommend a tune.
- An interesting title might prompt me into investigating a tune.
- Sometimes I hear a nice tune somwehere, then find it on someone's website when I get back home. And then I think: "I wonder if this guy's posted any other good tunes", and follow up a few more.
"Why would you want to learn a tune you've never heard before?"
Well, I might not have heard the tune played, but I'm a good enough reader that I can look over a tune and usually hear roughly how it's going to go. If I can't get it that way, I can play it, and then I've heard it, and I can know if I want to learn it.
Really, it's not that hard to play a tune "authentically" from the dots, unless you're unfamiliar with trad tunes generally - then it's impossible. Mind you,I still agree that this is not the BEST way to learn tunes, but it certainly is a viable option, and it's the only way to get at some of the more out-of-the-way tunes (ie, most of the stuff in Breathnach's collections) unless you're lucky enough to find them in vivo somewhere.
Good point too Jon. Those with knowledge of how 'the music' should sound can make a decent go. Hopefully the goal is to spread the tune and have friends pick it up. Vanity isn't that bad of a reason either.
I wish I was able to pick up a tune at session and remember it , or go home with it in my head and learn it. It seems that a lot of people here can do that without looking the tune up in books etc. when you get home Either your sessions are very slow or you are damn brilliant ;)
SWFL Fiddler - I invariably follow up a tune that's called someone-or-others "favourite". My theory is that if was someone's favourite, it is probably a good tune.
You're wrong about this. There are LOADS of musicians who pick up tunes in sessions that are not slow. Almost all of the people that I play with can and do, most of the people I have ever plated with can and do. Once you are familiar with the shapes of tunes (fluent in the language if you like) tunes come very quickly. That's how it's possible for people to know several thousand tunes.
Statistics lie. Whatever tune tickles my fancy when I hear it at that moment , is how I start to absorb it. When I find the title to the tune, I continue to practice the notation. Then, I listen to more recordings or I ask friends to play it at sessions. Hearing the tune is more important to learn the nuances. (I once tried to dance on a straw poll, but it was too brittle.)
"nowadays, I get most of my inspiration from internet radio, then look up the tunes in abc" -geoffwright
This is mostly how I do it, too. Lately, however, I have been encouraging mates to suggest tunes that we all can learn. That is more difficult for me, for some reason, but it is nice to know someone else will be able to play along at a session.
Loads of musicians know that many tunes. I could give you a list of the ones that I know who do, but it wouldn't be very nice to start naming names like that.
I don't know what it means to "jam along with" a tune.
Suppose "jam along with" a tune means that "Once you are familiar with the shapes of tunes" you are able to play along partly in a session, but maybe not reproduce the tune correct when you are on your own.
Well Chrishty, it's a pity that you're not prepared to give us the names of all those folks who can play "several thousand" tunes apiece. By several thousand, you must mean at least 3000.
We could set up a special pub session, and invite all "thesession" members to come and witness the playing of a 3000 tune set by these supertraddies Three times through each tune, naturally.
It would have to be a very large pub, of course. And one hell of a licence extension. And a v-e-r-y large bar tab for the partcipating musicians. Or would it? With a mammoth set like that, there would be no opportunity for supping.
In the sessions that I go to (we are all complete amateurs, of course) anyone who claims to learn one tune a week is either extremely dedicated or a b----y liar ...
... and even at the rate of one tune per week it would take you 58 years to learn 3000 tunes ...
... how old are these guys?
... and how many tunes can you play, out of interest?
Actually I only have one tune in my repertoire... Father Kelly's, which I heard on a record... I just play it over and over in different keys and time signatures, often re-arranging the note sequence. Nobody's noticed yet.
I use sources in combination - most of the tunes I consciously learn
are tunes I've heard before somewhere - at a session, on a disc, etc etc.
I fill in the gaps in my memory with (wait for it ........... ) sheet music.
Some tunes I've learned entirely from sheet music, choosing tunes that
on lists of common tunes. These tunes always pop up eventually at
my session or Clare FM and the version I play gradually changes.
I can read music more or less like a newspaper - it's easy for me - crazy
not use it as tool therefore.
I got all of my tunes from The Best Of The Pogues Songbook, apart from The Reel Of Mullinavat, which came out of a Christmas cracker I pulled with Shameless O'Booze (No longer of this Parish)
I've picked up a surprisingly large number of my tunes in sessions when I think back, though I have very little confidence on my ability so to do. Memory like a sieve and all that. Thing is, once you've heard a nice tune at a session a few times, and noodled haltingly along with it (hey, you can do that on a harmonica better than anything else), you tend to go and look for other sources for it. You might connect for example that you've heard it on a CD, so you rummage around for it, find it and find that it's the same but different. Great! Then one day an arrogant guy comes to your session and plays the increasingly-familiar tune a bit different again. Another angle. You learn to play tunes by accretion of snippets like this all the time, then you get the chemistry in your session, based on listening to each other, that makes it all meld together. It's wonderfully anarchic and non-linear, and tables and lists with figures can't explain it very well. The only time I ever use dots or those bloody awful midi jobbies is when I get a bit stumped over a few notes in a tune that, try as I might, I can't hear well enough to sort out a decent strategy for playing. It might be a tune I've learned from a recording on which the buggers are harmonising or being drowned out by a bloody bodhran or something. The only rule should be to eschew anything that confers even the slightest rigidity of approach to learning.
recordings
live performances
browsing through O´Neill and trying out tunes with interesting or strange names
tunes in Thesession
and: by coincidence >> for example film soundtracks (when I was trying to learn `Kid on the Mountain´ verrry slowly on the concertina, I realized that I was actually playing the main theme of Michael Mann´s "The last Mohican" - a very elegiac melody.
So now I´m combining them when performing: starting slowly with the movie theme played as an air, and then leading into "Kid"....so much about unexpected sources !!
Why should I be chastised for knowing a lot of tunes? Do you think I'm lying? I'm telling you, it's not uncommon for people to know this many tunes. I know people who are members of the session.org who do. Is it so surprising? One of the members here who reckons he knows about 500 tunes came to one of my sessions once and only knew a couple of tunes in three-four hours of tunes (and chat.) Not because we were being intentionally mean, we were playing the tunes that we thought of at the time.
I'm 40ish, been playing since I was 18, with three or four years of doing little but playing music near the start. My friends who I claim also know loads of tunes all have different stories. They are all excellent musicians; you might know who some of them are.
As for tunes in my tune book, I don't really understand what that function is for, and I'm not that interested in it. I've never used notation for learning tunes and I don't have any tune books at home. I love the database of tunes, though -- sometimes I remember the name of a tune but I can't remember how it starts and I can easily find it here. But I mainly hang around here because I enjoy the discussions. Like this one.
Sessions in my area are somewhat limited with regard to repertoire so I seek other sources for inspiration and learning.
Problem with live performances is you seldom get the reference down.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
30%Sessions
2%Live performances
40%Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
20%Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
8%Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
8%Sessions
0%Live performances
60%Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
30%Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
2%Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
Chrishty - I mentioned nothing about tunes in your "tunebook".
My comment was that you hadn't submitted any tunes to the tune database on this site. If you indeed know many tunes, it's a shame that you haven't given the rest of us the benefit of them ...
I would commend you (rather than "chastise" you) if you are able to play "several thousands" of tunes.
And you didn't answer my question. How many tunes can you actually play?
When I say play, I mean lead them at a session and keep on playing competently - even if everyone else stopped playing.
I'm not prficient in ABCs and don't have the time, really (a suspect reason, considering what I'm doing right now...) I suppose if someone wanted some particular tune I would gladly help... I do in person, anyway.
I suppose that I know around 3000 tunes, impossible to say, of course. I couldn't list them all or even think of them all either, but if you start it, I'll finish it (and you don't don't have to keep playing if you don't want to.)
Yeah, the tune book is a pretty poor approximation of what anyone knows, to be honest. I can't think of anything more painful than trying to remember every tune I know in order to look it up here and add it to a tune book which I never use.
Everyone’s different though, and if you’re one of those folks that enjoy that, good on ya! Not this cat though. Mostly I end up adding them when people I play with ask for ABCs or dots. I go look them up here, add them, and email them the link!
I have met a fair number of people that play thousands of tunes. A number of them (but not all) are professional musicians, and will play beautifully on pretty much any tune that appears in a session.
The difficulty, I would think, is to be able to recall the tunes out of thin air to be able start every one of them. But once they're playing the tune, you could all stop playing, and they would continue just fine.
I really do think that this comes from a combination of being fluent in the "language" of the music, and being continually exposed to it at a level that is generally much broader and higher than many of us would experience.
Chrishty - if you never counted them, you can't possibly know.
And if you did, you might well find that it was a lot less than you thought.
But I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt - we'll say that you've managed to learn an average of 2.6 tunes per week since you started playing. That would work out at about 3000.
So here's my suggestion:
1) You post up a list of these 3000 tunes.
2) I select three of them from your list.
3) Within one hour of me making that selection, you post a video of yourself playing that set on YouTube.
I don't know why you're so hostile/doubtful or whatever to someone knowing a lot of tunes, Mix. This is how I came up with "around 3000":
Many years ago, during the time of doing nothing besides playing music all the time, I knew a musician who practised every day from 10 to twelve in the morning. He learned about a tune a day, I suppose, and kept a notebook of all the tunes he ever learned so that he could go back and remember them and play them. At that time, about 15 years ago, he had about 2000 tunes. Now, this fellow and I were often in the same sessions, and we also played together at parties and so on. He reckoned that I knew A LOT more tunes than he did. He figured I knew about 3000. That was a long time ago, and I have learned a whole lot of tunes since then, but I also think that his estimate was too high. Since that time, every once in a while I will meet someone who keeps track of their tunes, and people who know five hundred really don't know that many when it comes to being able to play with anybody in any (Irish) session just about anywhere. This was my motivation then-- I hated sitting there and not knowing a tune, so I paid attention and learned them. (I'm much older and more relaxed now.) So 3000 is certainly an estimate, I'd say plus or minus 500.
Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling a list of tunes that I know. Which is too bad, because I'm up for the challenge. Although I am certainly not going to post myself on youtube. I also have only a dial-up connection at home. You shouldn't give me an hour, though -- I can learn three tunes in an hour! Maybe we can figure something out...
Anyway, I stand to gain absolutely nothing by making false claims here. I'm not looking to aquire some particular reputation for a pseudonym. Reverend is right, there are lots of people out there who know lots of tunes!! Of the ones that I know, only two are what you might call "professional musicians." The rest, Including me, might get paid for leading sessions or doing a few gigs here and there. But the vast majority of us have day jobs.
Any other voices to back up my point here (that it's not uncommon for people to know thousands of tunes) would be appreciated!
Present. Ditto on Rev and Chrishty. Often I've had the pleasure of playing with a veteran who knows each and every thing that is played, and plays along with it. These are the folks who will play a monster set of reels for a half an hour without missing a note and then tell you that they don't know the name of a single one of them, and they're not being smart-asses, they really don't know.
Actually, I count her as a very dear friend. She plays concertina and not only can play every tune in an Irish session, with proper style and sound, but not miss a beat and go sit in with the Old Timey folks and do the same thing. Who knows how many she knows? Impossible to tell.
Fair enough, Mix. As I said before, I have nothing to gain by misleading anyone. None of the folks I play with (or have ever played with on a regular basis) would be able to compile a list either. There is no hard evidence. Yet we still know a whole bunch of tunes... I'm still up for some kind of challenge if you're really interested in testing me...
Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Those of us who have been playing for any length of time have a repertoire of tunes that we can play.
By "play", I mean tunes that we would be capable of leading at a session, or be capable of following with reasonable competence if someone else were leading.
What inspired you to include these tunes in your repertoire?
Of course, many people are inspired from multiple sources. So I would be interested to know what your percentage was for each inspirational source.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
Sessions
Live performances
Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
A complication arises in that you might be inspired from one source, but actually learn from another. For example, you might hear a tune at a session, ask the name of it, then go home and learn the bones of it from a music score.
So I would also be interested to know what your percentage was for each learning source:
Learning Source
-----------------------
Sessions
Live performances
Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
84.99% Sessions
00% Live performances
10% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
00% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
00% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
00% Midi files - Internet
00.01% Printed tunebooks
00% Original manuscripts
05% Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
74.99% Sessions
00% Live performances
15% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
00% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
00% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
00% Midi files - Internet
00.01% Printed tunebooks
00% Original manuscripts
15% Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
As a beginner (of 3 years, but meandering to other musics), I only have about 30 tunes or so.
Most I learnt inspired by teachers and recordings
Most I learnt with the aid of sheetmusic.
This last year I have learnt several irish tunes and may others with no idea of what they look like in the dots, either from sessions or teachers/other musicians
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Tirno
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I can't give a percentage, but the proportion of tunes I learn by ear from sessions compared to the proportion I learn from albums or "cold" from dots has definitely gone up.
This is both because I've got better at picking up stuff live by ear, and because I am no longer as keen as I was to ferret out tunes - I let them come to me, and sessions are where this happens!
I use the Tunes database mainly to check out the dots and midis of tunes I've heard in sessions but haven't been able to remember in detail and learn by ear from hearing them in that environment.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
which tune was it michael? and do you still manage to play it okay?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by polkageist
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
45%....Sessions
0%......Live performances
10%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
11%....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
5%......Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
1%......Midi files - Internet
0%......Printed tunebooks
0%......Original manuscripts
28%....Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
64.10%..Sessions
0%..........Live performances
5.13%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
15.38%..Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
5.12%....Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0.01%....Midi files - Internet
6.411%..Printed tunebooks
0%..........Original manuscripts
3.85%....Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by polkageist
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
all figures highly exact.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by polkageist
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
early years- recordings- no computers just LPs and Cassettes 70%
other musicians 30%
later years- Other Musicians 70%
"where DID i learn that tune?" 30% (the years have taken their toll on my memory)
learnt from dots -"The Reel of Mullinavat" How does that tune go??? oh yeaah, by the way, what's a midi file???
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8650
It's the only tune I've ever learned without having an aural reference. All my mates now play it. It's an interesting conundrum, do they play it better than me because they did have an aural source?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
llig- if you say "The Reel of Mullinavat", I might faint!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Llig - you are truly the role model for the traditional musician!
However, I do think that 00.01 % from printed tunebooks is a little excessive
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
that's a nice tune. Did you find it in a book and learn it on your own or was it recommended or refernced by someone?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Pipes - midi file? e.g. anytune.mid
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
from OP: By "play", I mean tunes that we would be capable of leading at a session, or be capable of following with reasonable competence if someone else were leading.
Now, 0.01% is one tune in 10,000
If you know 10,000 tunes that well Michael, I salute you.
Happy New Year mate!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
00.01 % is a bit of an exaggeration, I admit. It suggests I know 10,00 tunes, Which I sincerely hope I don't
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
ha, cross post
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Ah Showaddy, you beat me to it!!
10,000 tunes, some man is our Micheal
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Yes pipewatcher, I found it while trawling through O'neil's, like you do. I actually think it's a scottish pipe tune, not that that matters. I don't think I play it very well, but I've played it a lot better since my mates started playing it.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I don't think either of the Learning Source percentages submitted so far total 100.
Anyway I've fed my own statistics into the computer here, but getting Divide By Zero error.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mike Floorstand
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Can we have a category for unconscious osmosis please?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Pomme de Terre
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I like the idea of an osmosis category, but I don't think I've got any tunes while I've been unconscious. But then again, how would I know?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
80% from sessions
2% sitting down with a recording and deliberately learning the tune
18% from recordings that I heard so many times that at some point I forgot that I didn't know the tunes on them (maybe this is osmosis?)
Not fair that most of us only get 100% where llig gets 105%.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I wonder if there is a correlation between how people tend to learn their tunes and how many they manage to learn... I would think that people who rely on dots more would know far fewer tunes than those who pick them up in sessions. I don't want to start a "how big is yours" contest, but I'm curious to hear what you all think about that.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
It's not fair that you can add up and I can't. I can't even tell the difference between ten thousand and a thousand. Fool that I am
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
“A complication arises in that you might be inspired from one source, but actually learn from another.”
Further complications: I never hermetically seal any of my tunes in a vacuum (does anyone?) so while they may ‘come’ from somewhere, they never stop being influenced by what I hear.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
quite right.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by ...
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Ha ha...
But seriously, llig, I'm guessing that you would agree that those who rely on dots for new tunes are severely limiting how many tunes they will ultimately know? You might not know 10,000 tunes, but I bet you know upward of 2,000, and so do your mates, and so do a hell of a lot of people that learn tunes by listening.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Chrishty - I believe that you are correct when you say that people who learn by ear would tend to know more tunes.
But although sessions may be the best source to learn by ear, there are other sources for this - recordings, for example.
Speaking for myself, I also use yet another way. If there is a tune that I want to learn, and I have no session or recording source, I first find and download an abc file. I don't learn the tune directly from the abc, though. Neither do I convert the abc to dots and learn it from the music.
What I usually do is convert the abc into a midi file, and open it in a media player configured in repeat mode. The computer can the "play" the tune back to me in an endless loop, and I can "play along" with it until I have the basics of it in my head. Having got the basics of it, the computer goes off, and go on to work on it in the same way as I would any other tune.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
another category might be "tunes you know, but just don't play because you don't like them" Subjective I know, but I , for one, have a few tunes which fall unanimously into that category
cheers,pipewatcher
(33)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
QUESTION for Mix O'Lydian: Why is "workshops/teachers" not in the choices? Should that be collectively lumped into the "Fellow band member or other musicians" category? If so, my responses below:
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
30%....Sessions
0%......Live performances
40%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0%....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0%......Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0%......Midi files - Internet
0%......Printed tunebooks
0%......Original manuscripts
30%....Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
5%..Sessions
0%..........Live performances
45%....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0%..Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0%....Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0%....Midi files - Internet
5%..Printed tunebooks
0%..........Original manuscripts
45%....Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by browndog
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Sort of hard to quantify, but something like this. The learning source is roughly averaged across the time I've been playing traditional music; at the beginning it was more tune-book heavy than it is now.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
40% Sessions
5% Live performances
35% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
0% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0% Midi files - Internet
5% Printed tunebooks
0% Original manuscripts
15% Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
25% Sessions
0% Live performances
15% Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
0% Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15% Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
0% Midi files - Internet
20% Printed tunebooks
0% Original manuscripts
25% Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by mcswiss
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Good point about workshops, browndog. And often a tune is learned from a combination of sources.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by mcswiss
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Fair point, Browndog. Hadn't thought of that one!
Agreed: new category in each case: Teachers/workshops.
And of course, any other categories that I haven't thought of!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
OK, devil's advocate time.
Why would you want to learn a tune you've never heard before?
Another one, why am I asking Llig's questions for him? (HA!)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
70%...Sessions
5%.....Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
5%.....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15%...Fellow band-member or other musician
5%.....Workshops
Learning Source
-----------------------
40%...Sessions
20%...Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
5%.....Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
15%...Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
15%...Fellow band-member or other musician
5%.....Workshops
But really, the "Learning Source" is usually a conglomeration of all those things. I may learn a tune originally from a recording of a session, but then I'll look at the setting in the database here, and any other settings that people have put in the comments field. I'll troll through 5000 tracks of Irish that I have on my hard drive to find recordings of it. I'll look through YouTube, and see how other people are playing it. But the biggest refinement of the tune really comes over time by playing it with other people.
I learn tunes directly from somebody else fairly often, and come back a couple weeks later with a different setting (much to their chagrin)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Chagrin, Rev? Aw heck, that's a learning opportunity!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
SWFL: "Why would you want to learn a tune you've never heard before?" -- Nice try, but there is ONLY ONE LLIG!!!
Anyway, I often hear a tune for the first time when it is played by a teacher at a workshop. So you could say that I am then learning a tune that I've never heard before (or at least, never *noticed* it, even though I may have heard it countless times).
Reverend: " 'Learning Source' is usually a conglomeration of all those things." -- Agreed.
"I may learn a tune originally from a recording of a session... ...I'll troll through 5000 tracks of Irish that I have on my hard drive to find recordings of it." -- Almost ditto. For me, I'll hear a tune that I like at a session, and then ask my session buddy what the name is, and either ask him/her to play it cleanly & slowly into my recorder ***AND/OR*** ferret through my collection of CDs, buy it off of iTunes, etc., in the comfort of my own home to find a setting to learn from.
Cheers.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by browndog
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Ok, "Devil's Advocate", (alias SWFL Fiddler).
Why would I want to learn a tune that I'd never heard before?
I wouldn't.
But if a listen to a midi file (albeit that the latter is a wooden computer-generated representation of the real thing), it's often enough to tell whether the thing is worthy of spending any more time on it or not. And if I think that it is, it might prompt me to search out a recording of it, or ask at a session if anyone knew it.
But what would prompt me to look for (or create) a midi file? Various things.
- Outside a session situation, someone might recommend a tune.
- An interesting title might prompt me into investigating a tune.
- Sometimes I hear a nice tune somwehere, then find it on someone's website when I get back home. And then I think: "I wonder if this guy's posted any other good tunes", and follow up a few more.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I take it trolls, fairies, banshees and other paranormal or faunal communicators of tunes count as "fellow band members or other musicians"...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
...or perhaps it may be "fellow band members or musicians"...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
HA browndog! Well, I tried my best. There can be only one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq4SqgxIKM0
Fair enough Mix. I'm guilty too of the interesting title thing, I admit. "I Buried My Wife and Danced on Her Grave" was simply too tempting.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
"Why would you want to learn a tune you've never heard before?"
Well, I might not have heard the tune played, but I'm a good enough reader that I can look over a tune and usually hear roughly how it's going to go. If I can't get it that way, I can play it, and then I've heard it, and I can know if I want to learn it.
Really, it's not that hard to play a tune "authentically" from the dots, unless you're unfamiliar with trad tunes generally - then it's impossible. Mind you,I still agree that this is not the BEST way to learn tunes, but it certainly is a viable option, and it's the only way to get at some of the more out-of-the-way tunes (ie, most of the stuff in Breathnach's collections) unless you're lucky enough to find them in vivo somewhere.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Good call nicholas. I'll revise my answer:
100% acquisition via fairy abduction
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Good point too Jon. Those with knowledge of how 'the music' should sound can make a decent go. Hopefully the goal is to spread the tune and have friends pick it up. Vanity isn't that bad of a reason either.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Sessions 5%
Live performances
Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc) 30%
Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc) 35%
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores) 15%
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks 10%
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician 5%
nowadays, I get most of my inspiration from internet radio, then look up the tunes in abc
the two criteria for being in my repertoire is
1) did the tune stick in my head overnight?
or
2) is it danceable to?
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by geoffwright
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I wish I was able to pick up a tune at session and remember it , or go home with it in my head and learn it. It seems that a lot of people here can do that without looking the tune up in books etc. when you get home Either your sessions are very slow or you are damn brilliant ;)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by houlberg
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
True, Nicholas. "The Gold Ring" for example, was originally learned from the little people.
And a piper once won a piping competion after he learned "The Lark in the Morning" from - let me see - from a lark in the morning.
But today, we sometimes only have abc files from which to derive inspiration.
It's just not the same ...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
SWFL Fiddler - I invariably follow up a tune that's called someone-or-others "favourite". My theory is that if was someone's favourite, it is probably a good tune.
And it usually is ...
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Houlberg -
You're wrong about this. There are LOADS of musicians who pick up tunes in sessions that are not slow. Almost all of the people that I play with can and do, most of the people I have ever plated with can and do. Once you are familiar with the shapes of tunes (fluent in the language if you like) tunes come very quickly. That's how it's possible for people to know several thousand tunes.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
played with
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
"Know several thousand tunes?"
Who can play several thousand tunes? Lead them, that is - not just "jam" along.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Ah yes Mix, then there's that classic tune "The One That Goes After", I love that one!
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
This is starting to remind me of that T Shirt Reverend has on his website there:
http://www.cafepress.com/ITMGoodies/5530299
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Statistics lie. Whatever tune tickles my fancy when I hear it at that moment , is how I start to absorb it. When I find the title to the tune, I continue to practice the notation. Then, I listen to more recordings or I ask friends to play it at sessions. Hearing the tune is more important to learn the nuances. (I once tried to dance on a straw poll, but it was too brittle.)
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Leendah
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
"nowadays, I get most of my inspiration from internet radio, then look up the tunes in abc" -geoffwright
This is mostly how I do it, too. Lately, however, I have been encouraging mates to suggest tunes that we all can learn. That is more difficult for me, for some reason, but it is nice to know someone else will be able to play along at a session.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by feardearg
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Mix-
Loads of musicians know that many tunes. I could give you a list of the ones that I know who do, but it wouldn't be very nice to start naming names like that.
I don't know what it means to "jam along with" a tune.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Suppose "jam along with" a tune means that "Once you are familiar with the shapes of tunes" you are able to play along partly in a session, but maybe not reproduce the tune correct when you are on your own.
# Posted on January 14th 2009 by houlberg
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Well Chrishty, it's a pity that you're not prepared to give us the names of all those folks who can play "several thousand" tunes apiece. By several thousand, you must mean at least 3000.
We could set up a special pub session, and invite all "thesession" members to come and witness the playing of a 3000 tune set by these supertraddies Three times through each tune, naturally.
It would have to be a very large pub, of course. And one hell of a licence extension. And a v-e-r-y large bar tab for the partcipating musicians. Or would it? With a mammoth set like that, there would be no opportunity for supping.
In the sessions that I go to (we are all complete amateurs, of course) anyone who claims to learn one tune a week is either extremely dedicated or a b----y liar ...
... and even at the rate of one tune per week it would take you 58 years to learn 3000 tunes ...
... how old are these guys?
... and how many tunes can you play, out of interest?
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Actually I only have one tune in my repertoire... Father Kelly's, which I heard on a record... I just play it over and over in different keys and time signatures, often re-arranging the note sequence. Nobody's noticed yet.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by drone
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
... and if you do know lots of tunes, you're keeping them a closely guarded secret ...
... your bio says:
Number of tunes submitted: 0
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I reckon that you are playing all the right notes, Drone!
... but perhaps some of them might be in the wrong order ...
(Anyone remember the famous Eric Morcambe / Andre Previn sketch?)
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
... and drone, your session "tunebook" claims 213 tunes
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
.. and Father Kelly's isn't amongst them
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I use sources in combination - most of the tunes I consciously learn
are tunes I've heard before somewhere - at a session, on a disc, etc etc.
I fill in the gaps in my memory with (wait for it ........... ) sheet music.
Some tunes I've learned entirely from sheet music, choosing tunes that
on lists of common tunes. These tunes always pop up eventually at
my session or Clare FM and the version I play gradually changes.
I can read music more or less like a newspaper - it's easy for me - crazy
not use it as tool therefore.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Hup
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
The source of my repertoire is Little Green Men From Mars
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I got all of my tunes from The Best Of The Pogues Songbook, apart from The Reel Of Mullinavat, which came out of a Christmas cracker I pulled with Shameless O'Booze (No longer of this Parish)
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Ottery
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
what category does this fit into?
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XZ_o0EaM8
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I've picked up a surprisingly large number of my tunes in sessions when I think back, though I have very little confidence on my ability so to do. Memory like a sieve and all that. Thing is, once you've heard a nice tune at a session a few times, and noodled haltingly along with it (hey, you can do that on a harmonica better than anything else), you tend to go and look for other sources for it. You might connect for example that you've heard it on a CD, so you rummage around for it, find it and find that it's the same but different. Great! Then one day an arrogant guy comes to your session and plays the increasingly-familiar tune a bit different again. Another angle. You learn to play tunes by accretion of snippets like this all the time, then you get the chemistry in your session, based on listening to each other, that makes it all meld together. It's wonderfully anarchic and non-linear, and tables and lists with figures can't explain it very well. The only time I ever use dots or those bloody awful midi jobbies is when I get a bit stumped over a few notes in a tune that, try as I might, I can't hear well enough to sort out a decent strategy for playing. It might be a tune I've learned from a recording on which the buggers are harmonising or being drowned out by a bloody bodhran or something. The only rule should be to eschew anything that confers even the slightest rigidity of approach to learning.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
"Eschew" "rigidity"
So nice, had to say it twice!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
At some of the sessions that I go to, sometimes free food is provided for the musicians.
We don't eschew it though - we prefer to chew it!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
recordings
live performances
browsing through O´Neill and trying out tunes with interesting or strange names
tunes in Thesession
and: by coincidence >> for example film soundtracks (when I was trying to learn `Kid on the Mountain´ verrry slowly on the concertina, I realized that I was actually playing the main theme of Michael Mann´s "The last Mohican" - a very elegiac melody.
So now I´m combining them when performing: starting slowly with the movie theme played as an air, and then leading into "Kid"....so much about unexpected sources !!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by alexweger
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Why should I be chastised for knowing a lot of tunes? Do you think I'm lying? I'm telling you, it's not uncommon for people to know this many tunes. I know people who are members of the session.org who do. Is it so surprising? One of the members here who reckons he knows about 500 tunes came to one of my sessions once and only knew a couple of tunes in three-four hours of tunes (and chat.) Not because we were being intentionally mean, we were playing the tunes that we thought of at the time.
I'm 40ish, been playing since I was 18, with three or four years of doing little but playing music near the start. My friends who I claim also know loads of tunes all have different stories. They are all excellent musicians; you might know who some of them are.
As for tunes in my tune book, I don't really understand what that function is for, and I'm not that interested in it. I've never used notation for learning tunes and I don't have any tune books at home. I love the database of tunes, though -- sometimes I remember the name of a tune but I can't remember how it starts and I can easily find it here. But I mainly hang around here because I enjoy the discussions. Like this one.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Sessions in my area are somewhat limited with regard to repertoire so I seek other sources for inspiration and learning.
Problem with live performances is you seldom get the reference down.
Inspirational Source
---------------------------
30%Sessions
2%Live performances
40%Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
20%Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
8%Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
Learning Source
-----------------------
8%Sessions
0%Live performances
60%Recordings (CD, DVD, vinyl, tape etc)
30%Recordings - Internet (audio/video streams, mp3 etc)
Notation - Internet (abc, tab, scores)
Midi files - Internet
2%Printed tunebooks
Original manuscripts
Fellow band-member or other musician
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by FiddleTramp
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Chrishty - I mentioned nothing about tunes in your "tunebook".
My comment was that you hadn't submitted any tunes to the tune database on this site. If you indeed know many tunes, it's a shame that you haven't given the rest of us the benefit of them ...
I would commend you (rather than "chastise" you) if you are able to play "several thousands" of tunes.
And you didn't answer my question. How many tunes can you actually play?
When I say play, I mean lead them at a session and keep on playing competently - even if everyone else stopped playing.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Mix -
I'm not prficient in ABCs and don't have the time, really (a suspect reason, considering what I'm doing right now...) I suppose if someone wanted some particular tune I would gladly help... I do in person, anyway.
I suppose that I know around 3000 tunes, impossible to say, of course. I couldn't list them all or even think of them all either, but if you start it, I'll finish it (and you don't don't have to keep playing if you don't want to.)
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Yeah, the tune book is a pretty poor approximation of what anyone knows, to be honest. I can't think of anything more painful than trying to remember every tune I know in order to look it up here and add it to a tune book which I never use.
Everyone’s different though, and if you’re one of those folks that enjoy that, good on ya! Not this cat though. Mostly I end up adding them when people I play with ask for ABCs or dots. I go look them up here, add them, and email them the link!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I have met a fair number of people that play thousands of tunes. A number of them (but not all) are professional musicians, and will play beautifully on pretty much any tune that appears in a session.
The difficulty, I would think, is to be able to recall the tunes out of thin air to be able start every one of them. But once they're playing the tune, you could all stop playing, and they would continue just fine.
I really do think that this comes from a combination of being fluent in the "language" of the music, and being continually exposed to it at a level that is generally much broader and higher than many of us would experience.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Reverend
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Chrishty - if you never counted them, you can't possibly know.
And if you did, you might well find that it was a lot less than you thought.
But I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt - we'll say that you've managed to learn an average of 2.6 tunes per week since you started playing. That would work out at about 3000.
So here's my suggestion:
1) You post up a list of these 3000 tunes.
2) I select three of them from your list.
3) Within one hour of me making that selection, you post a video of yourself playing that set on YouTube.
The world can then decide ....
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
I don't know why you're so hostile/doubtful or whatever to someone knowing a lot of tunes, Mix. This is how I came up with "around 3000":
Many years ago, during the time of doing nothing besides playing music all the time, I knew a musician who practised every day from 10 to twelve in the morning. He learned about a tune a day, I suppose, and kept a notebook of all the tunes he ever learned so that he could go back and remember them and play them. At that time, about 15 years ago, he had about 2000 tunes. Now, this fellow and I were often in the same sessions, and we also played together at parties and so on. He reckoned that I knew A LOT more tunes than he did. He figured I knew about 3000. That was a long time ago, and I have learned a whole lot of tunes since then, but I also think that his estimate was too high. Since that time, every once in a while I will meet someone who keeps track of their tunes, and people who know five hundred really don't know that many when it comes to being able to play with anybody in any (Irish) session just about anywhere. This was my motivation then-- I hated sitting there and not knowing a tune, so I paid attention and learned them. (I'm much older and more relaxed now.) So 3000 is certainly an estimate, I'd say plus or minus 500.
Unfortunately, I have neither the time nor the interest in compiling a list of tunes that I know. Which is too bad, because I'm up for the challenge. Although I am certainly not going to post myself on youtube. I also have only a dial-up connection at home. You shouldn't give me an hour, though -- I can learn three tunes in an hour! Maybe we can figure something out...
Anyway, I stand to gain absolutely nothing by making false claims here. I'm not looking to aquire some particular reputation for a pseudonym. Reverend is right, there are lots of people out there who know lots of tunes!! Of the ones that I know, only two are what you might call "professional musicians." The rest, Including me, might get paid for leading sessions or doing a few gigs here and there. But the vast majority of us have day jobs.
Any other voices to back up my point here (that it's not uncommon for people to know thousands of tunes) would be appreciated!
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Why does the size of Chrishty's repertoire matter? What a strange fascination, MixO.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by timmy!
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Present. Ditto on Rev and Chrishty. Often I've had the pleasure of playing with a veteran who knows each and every thing that is played, and plays along with it. These are the folks who will play a monster set of reels for a half an hour without missing a note and then tell you that they don't know the name of a single one of them, and they're not being smart-asses, they really don't know.
Actually, I count her as a very dear friend. She plays concertina and not only can play every tune in an Irish session, with proper style and sound, but not miss a beat and go sit in with the Old Timey folks and do the same thing. Who knows how many she knows? Impossible to tell.
"Hey Gail, what were those last three called?"
[shrug, sheepish smile, chuckle]
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Chrishty -
It was not my intention to be "hostile".
And I've no real interest in whether you can play one tune, 3000 tunes or any number in between!
I just don't think that you making unsubstantiated claims without hard evidence with which to back it up.
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Fair enough, Mix. As I said before, I have nothing to gain by misleading anyone. None of the folks I play with (or have ever played with on a regular basis) would be able to compile a list either. There is no hard evidence. Yet we still know a whole bunch of tunes... I'm still up for some kind of challenge if you're really interested in testing me...
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Chrishty
Re: Source of Your Repertoire - Straw Poll
Ha! So not "thousands of tunes" then?
- just a "whole bunch".
I have no issue with that
# Posted on January 15th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian