Ive started playing mandolin over the last 3 weeks and ive just been given one as a bday pressie off me folks.
I played with height screws and moving the bridge up and down the body a bit as I was getting a buzz off 6th fret G pair. I havnt got rid of it but its not as bad as it was.
My question is where abouts is the best place to move the bridge to on the body. Ive noticed that the 7th fret on each course (which should be the note of the next pair) is a little flat compared to the next course. I'm worried I ve knocked the tracking out.
Its got F hole sound box and the bridge is currently just under the middle angle of the f-holes.
Measure your instrument from the nut to the 12th fret, your bridge should be placed that same length from the 12th fret. The bridge should be placed so that the 12th fret is the center of the string. So if your instrument has a 12.5 inch scale, the bridge should be 6.25 inches from the 12th fret.
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the note for the open string should be the same as the note for the octive (i.e., the note when fretted at the 12th fret). If you check to tone and find that the open note is different from the octive fretted note, it can generally be adjusted by moving the bridge either forward or backward. For example, if the fretted (at the 12rh fret) is sharp compared with the open note, you would want to move the bridge back towards the tailpiece (away from the fretboard) a bit. This technique seems to work well on my Vega tenor mandola. I hope this helps.
I very much agree with dfost, but to achieve the right octave tone at the 12th fret it is good to compare it to the flageolette tone you get at the approximately middle of the string instead of the open string.
It might be that you still will get a flat tone at the seventh fret, as no neck can be perfectly compensated at all frets, but most likely you'll get the seventh fret (and all others) to work OK
Brad is right about the position of the bridge, although experience triumphs over physics sometimes and my bridge is angled to make the open G about 4mm shorter than the open E, and at this it tunes better.
Another thing - before you go too wild about moving things around, consider that the 6th fret on the G is quite a reach over the fingerboard - is the buzz anything more than not quite getting both strings hard enough to the fret? I had this trouble in the early days. Nowadays my trouble is more along the lines of not enough practice.
The problem with with all fretted instruments is that they are a compromise (one of the reason why fiddles have no frets).
The theory about the bridge being exactly twice the distance from the 12th fret does not work in practice. The different thicknesses of the strings and their different tensions all contribute to the optimum bridge possition and the only way to find that position is trial and error and using your ears:
Play the octave harmonic on the the e string on the12 fret, then play the string frettet. If the fretted note is sharper than the harmonic, move the bridge away from the nut. If the freeted note is flatter than the harmonic, move the bridge towards the nut. repeat for the g string. Just like dfrost says
You'll end up, however, with the bridge at quite an angle. And unless your bridge is designed to compensate for it, your pairs of strings will have slightly different string lengths, making them play more and more out of tune with each other the higher up you go. There's really nothing you can do about this.
Sometimes, If the mandolin is not so good and the freting is not as accurate as it could be, it may be better to forget the 12th fret and try to set the bridge to play better up to the 7th fret (with diddley music, you aint gonna go past there anyway). But, as I said, even with the best fretted instrument in the world, it's all compromise. And having double strings makes it worse.
Cheers for hyper speedy response. I'll give the suggestions a try.
Ive tested the buzz just holding my first finger as hard as I can. The buzz goes away a bit but is still there. It sounds worse when I'm playing tunes and using my fourth finger, which fair enough, is down to being a new starter.
ALso, when does the feeling in my fingertips return?
I'd always advise to steer well clear of messing with the intonation on any instrument unless you really know what you're at. If you test it and find it's way off you may be better off bringing it into a good music shop and getting them to set it up for you.
As for the buzz they may be able to help you out there too. However, one suggestion would be to look and see exactly where the buzz is occuring, you can then file down the frets higher up the neck where the strings are coming into contact with them. I've never done this on a mandolin, but have done it on several guitars and it's worked very well.
Feeling in your finger tips will return, but you'll have to develop thick leathery calouses first...
Is the 6th fret on the g-strings the only position the buzz occurs, or are there others as well? Can you remove it by putting the action higher (and make the whole instrument harder to play)? Filing down frets may be an option as oraghalm says. Another is, if its only the g-strings, just put this pair higher. you can achieve that by either underlaying it or make the cuts for all the other strings (except the g-ones) deeper on the bridge, and then move the whole bridge up.
anyway, its not a bad idea for shure to bring it to a good music shop (ore even better instrumentmaker) and have it adjusted.
On the other hand they might not have (ore take) the time to explain properly what they are doing and from my point of view to try and understand how the instrument youre playing works is quite reasonable.
keep on with your mandolin!
I wouldn't go filing frets or cutting deeper grooves on the bridge just yet. As Bernhard advises, take the instrument to a good music shop. If you've just started playing, you'll probably be able to cope with a higher action once your finger tips get a little harder. This may be all that is wrong. Incidentally, raising or lowering the action can affect the intonation as well and so does changing the gauge of the strings.
As Michael points out, it is sometimes hard to achieve perfect intonation and it is a bit of a compromise. You'll get used to something that suits you and will be able to make these finer adjustments for yourself in time. In the meantime, I would ask your friendly music shop to give it the once over.
Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Ive started playing mandolin over the last 3 weeks and ive just been given one as a bday pressie off me folks.
I played with height screws and moving the bridge up and down the body a bit as I was getting a buzz off 6th fret G pair. I havnt got rid of it but its not as bad as it was.
My question is where abouts is the best place to move the bridge to on the body. Ive noticed that the 7th fret on each course (which should be the note of the next pair) is a little flat compared to the next course. I'm worried I ve knocked the tracking out.
Its got F hole sound box and the bridge is currently just under the middle angle of the f-holes.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by deharvey2002
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Measure your instrument from the nut to the 12th fret, your bridge should be placed that same length from the 12th fret. The bridge should be placed so that the 12th fret is the center of the string. So if your instrument has a 12.5 inch scale, the bridge should be 6.25 inches from the 12th fret.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by B Rad
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
I'm not an expert, but my understanding is that the note for the open string should be the same as the note for the octive (i.e., the note when fretted at the 12th fret). If you check to tone and find that the open note is different from the octive fretted note, it can generally be adjusted by moving the bridge either forward or backward. For example, if the fretted (at the 12rh fret) is sharp compared with the open note, you would want to move the bridge back towards the tailpiece (away from the fretboard) a bit. This technique seems to work well on my Vega tenor mandola. I hope this helps.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by dfost
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
I very much agree with dfost, but to achieve the right octave tone at the 12th fret it is good to compare it to the flageolette tone you get at the approximately middle of the string instead of the open string.
It might be that you still will get a flat tone at the seventh fret, as no neck can be perfectly compensated at all frets, but most likely you'll get the seventh fret (and all others) to work OK
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by lars
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Deharvey
Brad is right about the position of the bridge, although experience triumphs over physics sometimes and my bridge is angled to make the open G about 4mm shorter than the open E, and at this it tunes better.
Another thing - before you go too wild about moving things around, consider that the 6th fret on the G is quite a reach over the fingerboard - is the buzz anything more than not quite getting both strings hard enough to the fret? I had this trouble in the early days. Nowadays my trouble is more along the lines of not enough practice.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
The problem with with all fretted instruments is that they are a compromise (one of the reason why fiddles have no frets).
The theory about the bridge being exactly twice the distance from the 12th fret does not work in practice. The different thicknesses of the strings and their different tensions all contribute to the optimum bridge possition and the only way to find that position is trial and error and using your ears:
Play the octave harmonic on the the e string on the12 fret, then play the string frettet. If the fretted note is sharper than the harmonic, move the bridge away from the nut. If the freeted note is flatter than the harmonic, move the bridge towards the nut. repeat for the g string. Just like dfrost says
You'll end up, however, with the bridge at quite an angle. And unless your bridge is designed to compensate for it, your pairs of strings will have slightly different string lengths, making them play more and more out of tune with each other the higher up you go. There's really nothing you can do about this.
Sometimes, If the mandolin is not so good and the freting is not as accurate as it could be, it may be better to forget the 12th fret and try to set the bridge to play better up to the 7th fret (with diddley music, you aint gonna go past there anyway). But, as I said, even with the best fretted instrument in the world, it's all compromise. And having double strings makes it worse.
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by ...
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Cheers for hyper speedy response. I'll give the suggestions a try.
Ive tested the buzz just holding my first finger as hard as I can. The buzz goes away a bit but is still there. It sounds worse when I'm playing tunes and using my fourth finger, which fair enough, is down to being a new starter.
ALso, when does the feeling in my fingertips return?
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by deharvey2002
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
I'd always advise to steer well clear of messing with the intonation on any instrument unless you really know what you're at. If you test it and find it's way off you may be better off bringing it into a good music shop and getting them to set it up for you.
As for the buzz they may be able to help you out there too. However, one suggestion would be to look and see exactly where the buzz is occuring, you can then file down the frets higher up the neck where the strings are coming into contact with them. I've never done this on a mandolin, but have done it on several guitars and it's worked very well.
Feeling in your finger tips will return, but you'll have to develop thick leathery calouses first...
# Posted on August 18th 2003 by oraghalm
Buzz at 6th fret
Is the 6th fret on the g-strings the only position the buzz occurs, or are there others as well? Can you remove it by putting the action higher (and make the whole instrument harder to play)? Filing down frets may be an option as oraghalm says. Another is, if its only the g-strings, just put this pair higher. you can achieve that by either underlaying it or make the cuts for all the other strings (except the g-ones) deeper on the bridge, and then move the whole bridge up.
anyway, its not a bad idea for shure to bring it to a good music shop (ore even better instrumentmaker) and have it adjusted.
On the other hand they might not have (ore take) the time to explain properly what they are doing and from my point of view to try and understand how the instrument youre playing works is quite reasonable.
keep on with your mandolin!
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by Berni
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
I wouldn't go filing frets or cutting deeper grooves on the bridge just yet. As Bernhard advises, take the instrument to a good music shop. If you've just started playing, you'll probably be able to cope with a higher action once your finger tips get a little harder. This may be all that is wrong. Incidentally, raising or lowering the action can affect the intonation as well and so does changing the gauge of the strings.
As Michael points out, it is sometimes hard to achieve perfect intonation and it is a bit of a compromise. You'll get used to something that suits you and will be able to make these finer adjustments for yourself in time. In the meantime, I would ask your friendly music shop to give it the once over.
John
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
Not withstanding anything I or anyone else has said so far, here's an interesting article you might wish to read all about the subject of "buzzing".
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/GenSetup/InYourHands/inhand1.html
John
# Posted on August 19th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: Nu Mandolin player - Instrument setup
The solution to your problem
As far as I can see
Is just to stick to tunes that use
The strings E A and D
hiya!!
# Posted on August 21st 2003 by billabbey