No, I don't play my Highland Pipes in sessions. That would be interesting.
Right now I play my Fireside Pipes (a form of smallpipes that uses the GHB scale), but soon I will have a set of new Border Pipes to bring to sessions.
I recently joined a session which I visit about once a month or so which plays mostly Irish music. As I know mostly Scottish music, we have a failure to communicate. My session mates are good about it and are interested in learning my tunes.
I'm interested in learning some of theirs, but am limited by the GHB scale.
Anybody have good suggestions for a beginner/intermediate piper to learn tunes that fit the GHB scale that are compatible with an Irish session?
Also, what key are your pipes in? If they aren't in D, A, or G, chances are you won't be able to play in sessions. You could learn the tunes, but they won't be in the right key. A much better idea would be to get a cheap Generation or Feadog whistle and learn that. Scottish pipes aren't really meant for sessions, and as a result it's hard to get them to work at one.
+1 on Terry Tully, was just going to suggest that. A couple of things to be aware of though:
1. some of Terry's settings are transposed, e.g. his setting of the Kesh Jig is in A, your session buddies might find one or two of those novel but too many transposed tunes might start p*ssing them off
2. Most of his settings are modified/simplified to some degree to fit the GHB scale, so you should try to play sympathetically so that you don't throw anyone else off.
Terry's books are definitely a great starting point but remember that there are some GHB tunes that are fairly standard at ITM sessions such as Jig of Slurs, Atholl Highlanders etc.
scots small pipes are lovely instruments. I've heard them attemptedly playing along with the Irish sets and it doesn't work well, probably because the ones I've heard have had low A chanters. They've been far better playing their own tunes in and among session sets
Ignore Rob - there is no reason Scottish pipes can not work in a session. True GHB may be problematic but as you are clearly aware, even if others aren't you will be fine once you get your border pipes.
There are loads of Irish tunes that can fit on the pipes and there are also plenty of Scottish, particularly west coast tunes that have been absorbed into Irish music. Learning the whistle is good advice because it will increase the range of tunes you can play and also helps to break up the session a bit by resting the pipes.
I wish I could name a load of tunes for you but it is late and I am tired. One suggestion would be The Ivory Flute, an Irish jig that (almost) fits on the pipes. It is a great tune but it also appears to be one that very few folk know. Either way it is in the database here. Jimmy Wards Jig is another suggestion although you will need to play it in D instead of the original G - that shouldn't be too awkward though as D was good enough for both Capercaillie and Lunasa.
Gordon Duncan was a great one for fitting Irish tunes on to the Highland pipes. Listen to him for inspiration. Other suggestions would be Ross Ainslie and Jarlath Henderson's CD and also Daimh where you can hear all sorts of tunes on the Border pipes.
You could do worse than asking "Bogman" - one of the members here - and he will probably be along in a bit to offer suggestions anyway.
No Cause For Alarm-
If you read my post you will see that I never said that highland pipes will not work in a session, only that it is not easy to get them to work in a session.
Sorry Rob, you caught me in an odd mood - I didn't mean to cause offence. My point though was that Nate has already recognised that there is an issue with playing pipes whose pitch lurks around Bb but that he is getting border pipes shortly. Seeing as almost all Border Pipes are pitched in A this would solve the problem. Someone specifically looking for Border Pipes in Bb is a sick and twisted individual who should be neutered before they get the chance to breed!
Anyway you didn't say that Highland Pipes are not easy to get to work in a session, you said that "Scottish pipes are not really meant for sessions". That is an entirely different statement that excludes small pipes and border pipes from sessions too. As I have been in a session today with 3 Scottish pipers I feel I must disagree.
As an aside I have come across plenty of Uilleann Pipers who do not think that their own instrument belongs in a session either.
"I'd say, if you play GHB in a session, play stuff you know well and are completely confident with, and go in hard!
I enjoy GHB in sessions - though it does help if they're in concert pitch (A and D Major) as others can join in."
I have to disagree, Nicholas - Playing GHB in a session is downright irresponsible. They are made to be played *outdoors*, or at the very least, in large halls with high ceilings. On occasions when I have heard them played at close quarters in a session, it has taken hours for my ears to recover. Don't get me wrong - I love the bagpipes, in their proper place.
Smallpipes and Border pipes are another matter - both well suited to sessions in small spaces, provided they are suitably pitched. It is worth bearing in mind, however, that the Border pipes can be quite loud, and could be overpowering in a small session with quiet instruments.
"Any Irish player who can't/won't adapt to playing the Kesh Jig is A is not worth playing with."
Point taken, Llig (although I'm not sure I would be so particular myself - at least, I would not dismiss another player just because they are not able to transpose 'off the cuff' [*won't* is another matter]). It's fun and satisfying to play in non-standard keys. But why should everyone else always defer to the piper? If a piper visits a session, isn't it common decency for them to fit in with the way the regulars play, rather than dictating the key? Of course, a concert 'A' set is really in D anyway, so that covers more than half the tunes, allowing for all necessary adaptation to the 9-note compass. A D-chanter would cover most of the remainder. (There are sets made with two chanters).
It is also worth pointing out there are Border pipe chanters that can produce all 12 notes of the chromatic scale using cross-fingering. I don't play myself, but I imagine learning the fingerings for a couple of sharps and naturals would not be too tall an order.
I take my Border pipes in A to sessions. I don't expect to play every tune because
a/ it might not fit
b/ I might not know it if it does
Any decent session is a two-way thing though, and you can also play tunes the others don't know (some of the time). But unless it's a very Scottish session, only a handful of tunes will fit or be in your repertoire, so to get the most out of it, and to broaden your palette, best to start playing another instrument if the session life is for you.
A few tunes the others may know - Andy Renwick's Ferret, High Drive and a few other Gordon Duncan tunes; Brenda Stubbert's; High Road to Linton; Dinky's; Farewell to Ireland
I have a few mates who play border/small pipes in Irish-ish sessions. They've adapted a few Irish tunes to the borders. In addition to the ones already mentioned, the ones I can remember offhand them playing are Rip the Calico (the Bothy Band one in D), The Old Bush (probably a slightly different setting than the standard one but it works), The Jolly Tinker, The Antrim Rose, Boys of Malin, Hag at the Churn. The band Daimh play a version of the Four Courts but do it in a different key from the standard one.
All that said, most of my border piper friends/acquaintances play a second or third or fourth instrument very proficiently. They are good whistle players, flute players, as well as other things. Border pipes dominate most sessions and it's better to blend into the sound, rather than take it over, on a fair few sets.
I'm really interested in this topic as I am hopefully going to have a set of Border Pipes ones of these days(are on order)- I play fiddle and am learning whistle so am ok with playing other instruments some of the time but have been pondering the tune list for Border Pipes in A- wondering what would work at a session since the only pipes I have ever experienced at a session have been uillean pipes. In fact I have been sort of wondering if I was unwise to decide on BP's as perhaps Uillean pipes would have been a wiser choice in terms of tunes... so looking for some ideas here as well.
It's a totally different instrument and I'd say you have to get the one that calls to you, which sounds a bit silly, but to play either one at a sessionable level takes lots and lots of work. You have to get the one that will inspire you to put the work in. How well it works in session, in my mind, should be at the bottom of your list of reasons to choose one or the other. Neither border pipes nor uilleann pipes can be learned lightly. The best uilleann pipers I know have a deep passion not just for Irish music but for that instrument. Same is probably true for Scottish pipers.
Definitely agree you really need to have a second instrument to get reasonably involved with a session unless you were somewhere in Scotland were they play mainly pipe tunes.
Border pipes are more difficult to play than smallpipes and are louder, so it's important to be able to play at a decent level so as you don't ruin it for other. With GHB family instruments the sound is continuous and there is nowhere to hide like with other instruments.
"Anybody have good suggestions for a beginner/intermediate piper to learn tunes that fit the GHB scale that are compatible with an Irish session?"
There are a list of tunes on this site on my member profile page that are suitable for A pipes. D smallpipes are virtually useless in a tune session. I wouldn't learn them off here though unless you are very experienced. You need to be very proficient in doubling, gracenotes, where to put them and know the how the tune goes before I would suggest playing them from the bare bones here.
Thanks for the tune list bogman- I know(and have heard of) exactly 2 of them(sigh)- way different tunes being played over here where I live I guess. In terms of the choice of Uillean pipes vs Border Pipes- I guess the deciding factor for me was that I could try it first using a practice chanter with the BP's- so if I didn't "get it" I could bow out without a major investment other than lessons(borrowed chanter), and also that I could play the BP's standing up- I hate to sit when I play anything- so wasn't sure if I could hack having to actually sit for hours while playing Uillean pipes-that was the major factor I guess- am too hyper to sit still much.....could not have a desk job for sure...
Other than that, while I like the sound of BP's enough to want to play them, UP's are wonderful and I probably am drawn to their sound even more so am somewhat wondering if I should have gone that route(maybe if I dosed myself with Ritalin I could sit still long enough;) )
In terms of sessions though, I understand the desire to figure out what works there as that is my main choice in terms of playing- am not the solitary player type- really really enjoy playing with others so wouldn't take up an instrument that I couldn't do that with I guess....
Thanks for all the input. Sorry I didn't respond earlier, but I thought that this page was RSS'd, so I didn't see that people were responding to my post! Oh well.
Fireside Pipes are over the shoulder smallpipes in Concert A. The Border Pipes I am ordering are also in Concert A.
Thanks for the input about Terry Tully--I'll see if I can look into that.
GHB newbie to sessions
GHB newbie to sessions
No, I don't play my Highland Pipes in sessions. That would be interesting.
Right now I play my Fireside Pipes (a form of smallpipes that uses the GHB scale), but soon I will have a set of new Border Pipes to bring to sessions.
I recently joined a session which I visit about once a month or so which plays mostly Irish music. As I know mostly Scottish music, we have a failure to communicate. My session mates are good about it and are interested in learning my tunes.
I'm interested in learning some of theirs, but am limited by the GHB scale.
Anybody have good suggestions for a beginner/intermediate piper to learn tunes that fit the GHB scale that are compatible with an Irish session?
Nate
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by nateprentice
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Are your Fireside Pipes tuned to concert pitch? If not, it probably won't be an easy fit.
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by fidkid
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Also, what key are your pipes in? If they aren't in D, A, or G, chances are you won't be able to play in sessions. You could learn the tunes, but they won't be in the right key. A much better idea would be to get a cheap Generation or Feadog whistle and learn that. Scottish pipes aren't really meant for sessions, and as a result it's hard to get them to work at one.
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by rob_handel
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
http://www.borderpipes.co.uk/sessionpipes.htm
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by ...
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Yeah, I've heard these pipes, and they're lovely, in the right hands, of course.
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by Dragut Reis
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Pipe Major Terry Tully has published several volumes of Irish tunes for Scottish pipes easily obtainable from many sources.
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
+1 on Terry Tully, was just going to suggest that. A couple of things to be aware of though:
1. some of Terry's settings are transposed, e.g. his setting of the Kesh Jig is in A, your session buddies might find one or two of those novel but too many transposed tunes might start p*ssing them off
2. Most of his settings are modified/simplified to some degree to fit the GHB scale, so you should try to play sympathetically so that you don't throw anyone else off.
Terry's books are definitely a great starting point but remember that there are some GHB tunes that are fairly standard at ITM sessions such as Jig of Slurs, Atholl Highlanders etc.
# Posted on January 3rd 2009 by Jams_O'Donnell
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
I'd say, if you play GHB in a session, play stuff you know well and are completely confident with, and go in hard!
I enjoy GHB in sessions - though it does help if they're in concert pitch (A and D Major) as others can join in.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by nicholas
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
scots small pipes are lovely instruments. I've heard them attemptedly playing along with the Irish sets and it doesn't work well, probably because the ones I've heard have had low A chanters. They've been far better playing their own tunes in and among session sets
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by millionyears_bc
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Ignore Rob - there is no reason Scottish pipes can not work in a session. True GHB may be problematic but as you are clearly aware, even if others aren't you will be fine once you get your border pipes.
There are loads of Irish tunes that can fit on the pipes and there are also plenty of Scottish, particularly west coast tunes that have been absorbed into Irish music. Learning the whistle is good advice because it will increase the range of tunes you can play and also helps to break up the session a bit by resting the pipes.
I wish I could name a load of tunes for you but it is late and I am tired. One suggestion would be The Ivory Flute, an Irish jig that (almost) fits on the pipes. It is a great tune but it also appears to be one that very few folk know. Either way it is in the database here. Jimmy Wards Jig is another suggestion although you will need to play it in D instead of the original G - that shouldn't be too awkward though as D was good enough for both Capercaillie and Lunasa.
Gordon Duncan was a great one for fitting Irish tunes on to the Highland pipes. Listen to him for inspiration. Other suggestions would be Ross Ainslie and Jarlath Henderson's CD and also Daimh where you can hear all sorts of tunes on the Border pipes.
You could do worse than asking "Bogman" - one of the members here - and he will probably be along in a bit to offer suggestions anyway.
Good luck.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
No Cause For Alarm-
If you read my post you will see that I never said that highland pipes will not work in a session, only that it is not easy to get them to work in a session.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by rob_handel
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Sorry Rob, you caught me in an odd mood - I didn't mean to cause offence. My point though was that Nate has already recognised that there is an issue with playing pipes whose pitch lurks around Bb but that he is getting border pipes shortly. Seeing as almost all Border Pipes are pitched in A this would solve the problem. Someone specifically looking for Border Pipes in Bb is a sick and twisted individual who should be neutered before they get the chance to breed!
Anyway you didn't say that Highland Pipes are not easy to get to work in a session, you said that "Scottish pipes are not really meant for sessions". That is an entirely different statement that excludes small pipes and border pipes from sessions too. As I have been in a session today with 3 Scottish pipers I feel I must disagree.
As an aside I have come across plenty of Uilleann Pipers who do not think that their own instrument belongs in a session either.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
The long and short is I did read your post - perhaps you should!
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Any Irish player who can't/won't adapt to playing the Kesh Jig is A is not worth playing with.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by ...
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
"I'd say, if you play GHB in a session, play stuff you know well and are completely confident with, and go in hard!
I enjoy GHB in sessions - though it does help if they're in concert pitch (A and D Major) as others can join in."
I have to disagree, Nicholas - Playing GHB in a session is downright irresponsible. They are made to be played *outdoors*, or at the very least, in large halls with high ceilings. On occasions when I have heard them played at close quarters in a session, it has taken hours for my ears to recover. Don't get me wrong - I love the bagpipes, in their proper place.
Smallpipes and Border pipes are another matter - both well suited to sessions in small spaces, provided they are suitably pitched. It is worth bearing in mind, however, that the Border pipes can be quite loud, and could be overpowering in a small session with quiet instruments.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
"Any Irish player who can't/won't adapt to playing the Kesh Jig is A is not worth playing with."
Point taken, Llig (although I'm not sure I would be so particular myself - at least, I would not dismiss another player just because they are not able to transpose 'off the cuff' [*won't* is another matter]). It's fun and satisfying to play in non-standard keys. But why should everyone else always defer to the piper? If a piper visits a session, isn't it common decency for them to fit in with the way the regulars play, rather than dictating the key? Of course, a concert 'A' set is really in D anyway, so that covers more than half the tunes, allowing for all necessary adaptation to the 9-note compass. A D-chanter would cover most of the remainder. (There are sets made with two chanters).
It is also worth pointing out there are Border pipe chanters that can produce all 12 notes of the chromatic scale using cross-fingering. I don't play myself, but I imagine learning the fingerings for a couple of sharps and naturals would not be too tall an order.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
I take my Border pipes in A to sessions. I don't expect to play every tune because
a/ it might not fit
b/ I might not know it if it does
Any decent session is a two-way thing though, and you can also play tunes the others don't know (some of the time). But unless it's a very Scottish session, only a handful of tunes will fit or be in your repertoire, so to get the most out of it, and to broaden your palette, best to start playing another instrument if the session life is for you.
A few tunes the others may know - Andy Renwick's Ferret, High Drive and a few other Gordon Duncan tunes; Brenda Stubbert's; High Road to Linton; Dinky's; Farewell to Ireland
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by Matt Seattle
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
I have a few mates who play border/small pipes in Irish-ish sessions. They've adapted a few Irish tunes to the borders. In addition to the ones already mentioned, the ones I can remember offhand them playing are Rip the Calico (the Bothy Band one in D), The Old Bush (probably a slightly different setting than the standard one but it works), The Jolly Tinker, The Antrim Rose, Boys of Malin, Hag at the Churn. The band Daimh play a version of the Four Courts but do it in a different key from the standard one.
All that said, most of my border piper friends/acquaintances play a second or third or fourth instrument very proficiently. They are good whistle players, flute players, as well as other things. Border pipes dominate most sessions and it's better to blend into the sound, rather than take it over, on a fair few sets.
# Posted on January 4th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
I'm really interested in this topic as I am hopefully going to have a set of Border Pipes ones of these days(are on order)- I play fiddle and am learning whistle so am ok with playing other instruments some of the time but have been pondering the tune list for Border Pipes in A- wondering what would work at a session since the only pipes I have ever experienced at a session have been uillean pipes. In fact I have been sort of wondering if I was unwise to decide on BP's as perhaps Uillean pipes would have been a wiser choice in terms of tunes... so looking for some ideas here as well.
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by fiddlinfarmer
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
It's a totally different instrument and I'd say you have to get the one that calls to you, which sounds a bit silly, but to play either one at a sessionable level takes lots and lots of work. You have to get the one that will inspire you to put the work in. How well it works in session, in my mind, should be at the bottom of your list of reasons to choose one or the other. Neither border pipes nor uilleann pipes can be learned lightly. The best uilleann pipers I know have a deep passion not just for Irish music but for that instrument. Same is probably true for Scottish pipers.
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Definitely agree you really need to have a second instrument to get reasonably involved with a session unless you were somewhere in Scotland were they play mainly pipe tunes.
Border pipes are more difficult to play than smallpipes and are louder, so it's important to be able to play at a decent level so as you don't ruin it for other. With GHB family instruments the sound is continuous and there is nowhere to hide like with other instruments.
"Anybody have good suggestions for a beginner/intermediate piper to learn tunes that fit the GHB scale that are compatible with an Irish session?"
There are a list of tunes on this site on my member profile page that are suitable for A pipes. D smallpipes are virtually useless in a tune session. I wouldn't learn them off here though unless you are very experienced. You need to be very proficient in doubling, gracenotes, where to put them and know the how the tune goes before I would suggest playing them from the bare bones here.
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by bogman
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Thanks for the tune list bogman- I know(and have heard of) exactly 2 of them(sigh)- way different tunes being played over here where I live I guess. In terms of the choice of Uillean pipes vs Border Pipes- I guess the deciding factor for me was that I could try it first using a practice chanter with the BP's- so if I didn't "get it" I could bow out without a major investment other than lessons(borrowed chanter), and also that I could play the BP's standing up- I hate to sit when I play anything- so wasn't sure if I could hack having to actually sit for hours while playing Uillean pipes-that was the major factor I guess- am too hyper to sit still much.....could not have a desk job for sure...
Other than that, while I like the sound of BP's enough to want to play them, UP's are wonderful and I probably am drawn to their sound even more so am somewhat wondering if I should have gone that route(maybe if I dosed myself with Ritalin I could sit still long enough;) )
In terms of sessions though, I understand the desire to figure out what works there as that is my main choice in terms of playing- am not the solitary player type- really really enjoy playing with others so wouldn't take up an instrument that I couldn't do that with I guess....
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by fiddlinfarmer
Re: GHB newbie to sessions
Hi guys!
Thanks for all the input. Sorry I didn't respond earlier, but I thought that this page was RSS'd, so I didn't see that people were responding to my post! Oh well.
Fireside Pipes are over the shoulder smallpipes in Concert A. The Border Pipes I am ordering are also in Concert A.
Thanks for the input about Terry Tully--I'll see if I can look into that.
Bogman, I'll be looking at your profile soon.
Thanks again for all the help, guys.
Nate
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by nateprentice