Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
my god it was a bad episode, the worst ive ever see,what sort of cowboys are they employing to look after the sound?? i mean, for Sharon Shannon band pieces, all you could hear was fiddle with some of the backing instruments.. and as for some of the songs.......... No disrepeect to the musicians who were on they are all top notch, just the whole thing was a shambles i thought.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I have to agree with Stephen, the sound was atrocious. The Kane's instruments are some of the most beautiful deep and dark sounding fiddles that i have ever had the opportunity to listen to and play with but the sound men managed somehow to make them sound like cheap chinese imports..... ugh
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Well it is what it is but maybe Irish television makers should finally get off the idea that this sort of music shows can only be made in a quasi pub setting with people drinking all around and generally not adding anything to the program. This sort of audience based setting with musicians sitting around until their turn comes has been used for over thirty years now. It's time for it to be abandoned. I think in fairness this music deserves better.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I haven't seen it yet but I can just imagine the sound quality. I'm not sure who's behind Geantrai but just because it's in a pub doesn't mean that the sound has to be bad. The sound is only as good as the worst link in the production chain and post production on these types of shows is notoriously quick and dirty. The music does deserve better but when you have a bunch of kids three weeks off a two month FAS/Gaeltacht scheme to learn field sound recording and post production editing and getting paid half scale and be grateful for it you're going to get what you shell out for.
Re: The most *annoying* thing on the xmas geantraí......
I agree with everybody so far. But we thought Sharon's grin was way over the top. Ok, she's happy to be playing and she really loves the music and the other musicians. But now it just seems like OTT showmanship. Either that or she's kin to the banjo player in "Deliverance." Her grin is now equally annoying as some bobble-headed players of un-named instruments. It approaches rictus.
And I like her music... I really do!
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
sound was bad, but that's been commented on before. Yeah, the 'insane blisters' didn't sound good on the program. Thought the balance was a fair bit off as well.
It's not exactly difficult music to record well; not sure how they muck it up so often. Those DPA vampire clip mics they use on the fiddle don't work great for getting the natural sound of an instrument in an acoustic space. But the tracks that really stand out for all the wrong reasons are the ones with DI inputs from the instruments. Like the tune on the first show with the girl from Riverdance. Unnatural sound from the pickup plus loads of reverb; just sounded nasty and very faux.
By the way, what's with all the silly little hats? Bass player in Shannon's big band was wearing one, then Munday was wearing one, then Karen Casey, next thing O Sé's got one on! Were they sponsored or something? Crazy!
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
It's not as much 'a better shot' they are after, it's shots from multiple angles. Having had the Sé mo laoch crew filming in the house I can tell you there was one camera going and tunes had to be played up to four times to allow for different angles/perspectives and whatnot.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"...there was one camera going and tunes had to be played up to four times to allow for different angles/perspectives and whatnot. "
i think that is disgraceful - compromising the music for production. What the hell is wrong with these people? Why do they put the music second?
So, let me get this straight, they record it up to 4 times, then cut it up to make one take. I presume the musicians have no input into this editing process either. So it's left to the chumps who record it badly to piece it back together. Hmm.....
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
In fairness, there are limitations, financially and practical you have to allow for though.
These programmes are made by small independent production companies.
Also the locations do not always allow for an elaborate crew. The kitchen and room used for filming in my house didn't allow for more equipment and crew than what was squeezed into it and the same for a pub we filmed at the same day. I can imagine that holds true for the pubs used in other shows.
Once you have rails laid out to roll a trolley with camera on it, light set up and a sound and other crew in there's not much room for more cameras running about. The crews are working with what they are given, they have to.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
i think the show could do with a few less camera angles to be honest. Seem to be lots of silly shots not needed, particularly from aerial views zooming down to eye level. Whatever way they film it, the pub always looks like a set, as opposed to the real thing. Maybe it's just me not used to seeing music played in pubs without ashtrays everywhere, but it doesn't look genuine.
Kilfarboy I can't recall the episode with you refer to, although I was a huge fan of the last series of Sé mo laoch, and at no point found fault in the production, bar the usual thing of closeups of the musicians and their hands are out of sync with the music, but that seems to be across the board. I thought Sé mo laoch was the benchmark that all other modern programs should aspire to. But that's as much to do with the excellent musicians they were documenting, rather than the production of the show. So I would tar geantrai and Sé mo laoch with the same brush.
BTW kilfarboy, could I ask a favour? Would you mind putting up that clip of Cooley again? I was away from the computer for a few days when u posted it, and by the time I got back it was taken down. Is it the stuff of him in San Francisco?
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I didn't find anything wrong with Sé Mo Laoch 's production either but I used the example to point out certain limitations that I am sure apply to other productions as well.
I can't say a lot about TG4 productions by the way as their signal doesn't reach over the hills around us and broadband has come down to us relatively recently.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Just when I thought we got rid of ...Can you guys play 'The 'Fields of Athenrye'? We now have.....Can you guys play 'Galway Girl' ? No....we wont play 'Galway Girl', even if it was played on Geantrai. Nor do we have a guy called Tuesdy singing it...It's a session for Christ's sake. You know the kind of thing.....jigs reels hornpipes.....that sort of thing....and no....I have no intention of grinning like a cheshire cat when I'm playing the box either...ye gods....(miserable old git)...
Hi.....I heard that.!
Happy new year everybody.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"How could that thing ever be ever be considered "Irish traditional"?"
Actually fiddlestrings, there's evidence of the envelopment of instruments into the tradition all through it's history. All harmonic accompaniment is from outside Ireland, and has been absorbed into it. Same with melodic instruments, the only noticeable exception being the pipes. Where you you think Paolo Soprani came from, Cork?
So it's not the instrumentation, it's the utilisation of the instrument within the music. That's why someone like fiddleruairi or Finn can sound completely traditional on an instrument of Greek origin, and other music performed on 'cornerstone' instruments of the tradition, like fiddle and pipes, can still sound very untraditional, like say the first track on that episode of Geantrai from Belfast.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Sorry Skip. Didn't hear any pipes on that first track you mentioned from Belfast. But hey, as you say, it' doesn't really matter what instruments are utilised in the music. Well you don't seem to know which is which.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
When I saw Sharon Shannon's big band on Geantrai, and heard nothing but fiddle, I thought, let's get a look on DVD Live at Dolan's to see how they really sound. But the disapointment was even bigger. The sound was better of course (it can't be worst then on Geantrai though), but the music was sh*te really, except of Gerry O'Connor's brilliant solo. Great players on stage, but last two songs, Courtin in the kitchen and Ring of fire sounded like it was performed by some cheap restaurant band, nothing more...
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"Sorry Skip. Didn't hear any pipes on that first track you mentioned from Belfast."
Quite right. Memory serves me false - obviously too much eggnog over this festive period. Do forgive me - understandably, I only watched it the once. But I'll take your word for it - after all, you should know.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Let me list, rather, the only un-offensive things: Sliabh Notes, The Kane Sisters, the set that Sharon Shannon and Jim Murray did with the Kanes, the song from Caitlin Ni Chualain, the tunes from Catherine McEvoy and her son--the rest of it was truly sh*te.
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Catherine was class indeed. Her son is a cracking bouzouki player also.
Surprised no one mentioned the 'local' thing here. This was brought up on other threads, and I've heard that there were several local musicians who play in the pub that they recorded in - the owner even asked for them to be included, but no go. Talking about it with friends from the area, they also pointed out a whole raft of well-known players from within a stone's throw of the pub that should have been also there...the response to it was 100% negative, so it's not just the posters on here who are getting cheesed off with the show.
The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
....was def. the shirt worn by Daithi O Se!
he he. Oh, I'm just SO nasty!
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
my god it was a bad episode, the worst ive ever see,what sort of cowboys are they employing to look after the sound?? i mean, for Sharon Shannon band pieces, all you could hear was fiddle with some of the backing instruments.. and as for some of the songs.......... No disrepeect to the musicians who were on they are all top notch, just the whole thing was a shambles i thought.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by S.Doherty
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I have to agree with Stephen, the sound was atrocious. The Kane's instruments are some of the most beautiful deep and dark sounding fiddles that i have ever had the opportunity to listen to and play with but the sound men managed somehow to make them sound like cheap chinese imports..... ugh
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by galway-fiddle
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Well it is what it is but maybe Irish television makers should finally get off the idea that this sort of music shows can only be made in a quasi pub setting with people drinking all around and generally not adding anything to the program. This sort of audience based setting with musicians sitting around until their turn comes has been used for over thirty years now. It's time for it to be abandoned. I think in fairness this music deserves better.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I haven't seen it yet but I can just imagine the sound quality. I'm not sure who's behind Geantrai but just because it's in a pub doesn't mean that the sound has to be bad. The sound is only as good as the worst link in the production chain and post production on these types of shows is notoriously quick and dirty. The music does deserve better but when you have a bunch of kids three weeks off a two month FAS/Gaeltacht scheme to learn field sound recording and post production editing and getting paid half scale and be grateful for it you're going to get what you shell out for.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: The most *annoying* thing on the xmas geantraí......
I agree with everybody so far. But we thought Sharon's grin was way over the top. Ok, she's happy to be playing and she really loves the music and the other musicians. But now it just seems like OTT showmanship. Either that or she's kin to the banjo player in "Deliverance." Her grin is now equally annoying as some bobble-headed players of un-named instruments. It approaches rictus.
And I like her music... I really do!
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by David Levine
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
sound was bad, but that's been commented on before. Yeah, the 'insane blisters' didn't sound good on the program. Thought the balance was a fair bit off as well.
It's not exactly difficult music to record well; not sure how they muck it up so often. Those DPA vampire clip mics they use on the fiddle don't work great for getting the natural sound of an instrument in an acoustic space. But the tracks that really stand out for all the wrong reasons are the ones with DI inputs from the instruments. Like the tune on the first show with the girl from Riverdance. Unnatural sound from the pickup plus loads of reverb; just sounded nasty and very faux.
By the way, what's with all the silly little hats? Bass player in Shannon's big band was wearing one, then Munday was wearing one, then Karen Casey, next thing O Sé's got one on! Were they sponsored or something? Crazy!
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
It's a very "galway" thing skip. You should check out the market on Saturday morning. More little hats than a Bruce Cockburn concert.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
It's not as much 'a better shot' they are after, it's shots from multiple angles. Having had the Sé mo laoch crew filming in the house I can tell you there was one camera going and tunes had to be played up to four times to allow for different angles/perspectives and whatnot.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"...there was one camera going and tunes had to be played up to four times to allow for different angles/perspectives and whatnot. "
i think that is disgraceful - compromising the music for production. What the hell is wrong with these people? Why do they put the music second?
So, let me get this straight, they record it up to 4 times, then cut it up to make one take. I presume the musicians have no input into this editing process either. So it's left to the chumps who record it badly to piece it back together. Hmm.....
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
In fairness, there are limitations, financially and practical you have to allow for though.
These programmes are made by small independent production companies.
Also the locations do not always allow for an elaborate crew. The kitchen and room used for filming in my house didn't allow for more equipment and crew than what was squeezed into it and the same for a pub we filmed at the same day. I can imagine that holds true for the pubs used in other shows.
Once you have rails laid out to roll a trolley with camera on it, light set up and a sound and other crew in there's not much room for more cameras running about. The crews are working with what they are given, they have to.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
can we view your clip kilfarboy?
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I wouldn't think so, it was done years ago. A friend and musical partner was the subject of the programme.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
i think the show could do with a few less camera angles to be honest. Seem to be lots of silly shots not needed, particularly from aerial views zooming down to eye level. Whatever way they film it, the pub always looks like a set, as opposed to the real thing. Maybe it's just me not used to seeing music played in pubs without ashtrays everywhere, but it doesn't look genuine.
Kilfarboy I can't recall the episode with you refer to, although I was a huge fan of the last series of Sé mo laoch, and at no point found fault in the production, bar the usual thing of closeups of the musicians and their hands are out of sync with the music, but that seems to be across the board. I thought Sé mo laoch was the benchmark that all other modern programs should aspire to. But that's as much to do with the excellent musicians they were documenting, rather than the production of the show. So I would tar geantrai and Sé mo laoch with the same brush.
BTW kilfarboy, could I ask a favour? Would you mind putting up that clip of Cooley again? I was away from the computer for a few days when u posted it, and by the time I got back it was taken down. Is it the stuff of him in San Francisco?
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I didn't find anything wrong with Sé Mo Laoch 's production either but I used the example to point out certain limitations that I am sure apply to other productions as well.
I can't say a lot about TG4 productions by the way as their signal doesn't reach over the hills around us and broadband has come down to us relatively recently.
Anyhow, the Cooley clip was from the SF material.
There's a bunch of RTE recordings at:
http://www.johnlavellemusic.com/2008/06/as-mentioned-in-johns-bio-he-joe-cooley.html
but the site's allowance runs out fast if too many people download them, so be quick.
# Posted on December 26th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
thanks kilfarboy,
I'll PM you with some stuff to return the favour.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Thanks Peter. Yeah we have met
Think Farting Badger meets I'll Get My Coat meets The Block in the Bog meets the Car-Pipe-Pipe-Mend...... 
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Pomme de Terre
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
This is a bit more civilised Skip!
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
wait! he's slagging off daithi o'se's shirt.
get him!
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
I enjoyed your tunes fiddleruairi, although, what are you doing playing that round Greek instrument?
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
eh, i dunno... playing it? what else can you do?
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
What!!!!
How could that thing ever be ever be considered "Irish traditional"?
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
uh oh i see some tempting fate going on on this thread. lol.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Just when I thought we got rid of ...Can you guys play 'The 'Fields of Athenrye'? We now have.....Can you guys play 'Galway Girl' ? No....we wont play 'Galway Girl', even if it was played on Geantrai. Nor do we have a guy called Tuesdy singing it...It's a session for Christ's sake. You know the kind of thing.....jigs reels hornpipes.....that sort of thing....and no....I have no intention of grinning like a cheshire cat when I'm playing the box either...ye gods....(miserable old git)...
Hi.....I heard that.!
Happy new year everybody.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
there was a lot of smiling going on.
yes.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Yes! Definitely. A whole lotta smiling going on!
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"How could that thing ever be ever be considered "Irish traditional"?"
Actually fiddlestrings, there's evidence of the envelopment of instruments into the tradition all through it's history. All harmonic accompaniment is from outside Ireland, and has been absorbed into it. Same with melodic instruments, the only noticeable exception being the pipes. Where you you think Paolo Soprani came from, Cork?
So it's not the instrumentation, it's the utilisation of the instrument within the music. That's why someone like fiddleruairi or Finn can sound completely traditional on an instrument of Greek origin, and other music performed on 'cornerstone' instruments of the tradition, like fiddle and pipes, can still sound very untraditional, like say the first track on that episode of Geantrai from Belfast.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Sorry Skip. Didn't hear any pipes on that first track you mentioned from Belfast. But hey, as you say, it' doesn't really matter what instruments are utilised in the music. Well you don't seem to know which is which.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Who composed that first tune on the Belfast Geantrai btw?
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Lord Gordon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
the devil. satan himself.
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
lol
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
the Divil of Belfast
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Lord Gordon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Lord Gordon seems to have an obscene obsession with Donal O'Connor. Ah. There there there. Keep taking the pills. lol
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by fiddlestrings
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Who composed it? does anyone know?
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Lord Gordon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
i do not take pills. in fact i hate drugs and do not need them to enjoy music unlike many trazzers
# Posted on December 27th 2008 by Lord Gordon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
When I saw Sharon Shannon's big band on Geantrai, and heard nothing but fiddle, I thought, let's get a look on DVD Live at Dolan's to see how they really sound. But the disapointment was even bigger. The sound was better of course (it can't be worst then on Geantrai though), but the music was sh*te really, except of Gerry O'Connor's brilliant solo. Great players on stage, but last two songs, Courtin in the kitchen and Ring of fire sounded like it was performed by some cheap restaurant band, nothing more...
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by Bile
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
And to think - this thread almost remained civil. Will wonders never cease.
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by bb
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Pondering if it all did turn into a lump of foul deformity
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
"Sorry Skip. Didn't hear any pipes on that first track you mentioned from Belfast."
Quite right. Memory serves me false - obviously too much eggnog over this festive period. Do forgive me - understandably, I only watched it the once. But I'll take your word for it - after all, you should know.
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by bb
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Maybe you could try getting up and taking a walk shoddy.
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Let me list, rather, the only un-offensive things: Sliabh Notes, The Kane Sisters, the set that Sharon Shannon and Jim Murray did with the Kanes, the song from Caitlin Ni Chualain, the tunes from Catherine McEvoy and her son--the rest of it was truly sh*te.
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by Paddypip
Re: The most offensive thing on the xmas geantraí......
Catherine was class indeed. Her son is a cracking bouzouki player also.
Surprised no one mentioned the 'local' thing here. This was brought up on other threads, and I've heard that there were several local musicians who play in the pub that they recorded in - the owner even asked for them to be included, but no go. Talking about it with friends from the area, they also pointed out a whole raft of well-known players from within a stone's throw of the pub that should have been also there...the response to it was 100% negative, so it's not just the posters on here who are getting cheesed off with the show.
# Posted on December 30th 2008 by continuo