People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think I’ve figured out why people do this. Those tune name discussions can get *really* boring in a hurry! You know,
“what was that third reel called?”
“oh, it’s the Hare in the Foxhole, I think, but it might also be called the Hare *over* the Foxhole, I don’t remember, it was on Seamus McGuiness’s cd with the Fox in the Rabbit Warren…”
“No, not the Fox in the Rabbit Warren, it was the Goose in the Hen House, Seamus McGuinness got that wrong”
“no, it just sounds like the Goose in the Hen House, but it really is more like Cat Scratches on the Fence Post...or was it Cat Scratches on the *side* of the Fence Post…”
And on and on until you want to poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick. Now, I love knowing the names of tunes, but I’m starting to think that if you can’t say it either a) briefly, or b) with a fascinating story about how you learned it or where you found it, it’s better not to bother. That’s my latest theory, anyway.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Aww, come on, that's part of the crack! Why try to quash it? If it really bores you, then go to the bar for a drink or something. But the more you know about tunes, where people got them, what different names they go by, and what the "story" of each tune is, the better off you are in my mind...
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Actually Kennedy, you've got it the wrong way round. People don't know the names of tunes because those tune name discussions are really really boring.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Well, there's a quite a bit going on, I think. If it's a well known tune and you really should know it, it might be considered uncool to offer the name. But if it's obscure and people want to impress their mates, you can be sure they'll be pretty quick to say "Oh that .. that's xyx"!!
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
On the forum people are usually pretty good about providing a tune name. There might be more than one name. But you can suss that out it in your session. Or just name the sets you play.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Is there some kind of inverse proportion law at work- the more tunes you can play, the less you need to bother knowing their names- a kind of mental energy saving?
From my limited experience, professional players stress less about it than other mere mortals- I'm sure they know (or have known) a lot of the names, but have just moved on.
Personally, I just happen to like names- well, initials, anyway
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Some people like to pretend that they have such a vast wealth of music stored in their minds that they can't remember the names, or where they got them from, even though they've just trotted out a tune that's obviously lifted right off a Kevin Burke CD...
Most people who do have too many tunes to remember the names don't sound like poor imitations of Kevin Burke.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Kennedy, perhaps you could lead off with one of the Paddy Fahey tunes which has not been played in your session. Then you can just sit back while the mates invent some name.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Let me correct one thing---what I was describing doesn't happen quite so much at my session---I've been visiting some other sessions recently and noticed it in those places. It also struck me how one particular person told the most interesting story about how he learned this one tune from a recording from 30 years ago by a person he used to know (you had to be there to appreciate it)...and it made me wish that more tune discussions could be really interesting like that.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Here's an amazing epiphany I've come to recently. I've found that some people remember tune names, and some don't. I've also found most attempts to describe this phenomena are usually not accurate. Best to simply enjoy the mystery.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think that the longer you've been playing, the more easily it comes to pick up and learn a tune heard in a session without having to locate it under a name on an album or (shock, horror, probe..) in a Book of Dots. You are more able to suss its characteristics and design just through hearing it, and treat it as something fairly abstract.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I have a rake of tunes I learned years ago off Kevin burke records (that's records, not CDs). And while I can't recall their names, I always refer people to the particular recording, even if the version I now prefer came from elsewhere. Surely that's more honest than merely regurgitating some abstract label?
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Absolutely Michael. If you can recall where you picked up a tune, not letting on to be 'cool' is pretty pathetic. I think it comes from inecurity, and a wish to appear like the tune hs been absorbed through one's mother's milk, rather than learned painstakingly from a CD that was bought from Amazon. Certain people feel they have to pretend that they've got a magic insight into the music. Maybe it's about cultural validation?
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
SWFL: Your above entry --- Excellent, really. and amazingly I have noted the same pattern in my neck of the woods!
Now, how might this relate to some people being into different instruments, styles, artists, degree of involvement/obsession with the music, etc?
Who knows how many fine stimulating threads this could generate... (unless some high and mighty authority figure delares them to be "really really boring", that is.)
;-P
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
In my experience, in the middle of a session, most tune-freaks just hear something in their head, have a think if they can actually trot it out in public, then if so they just go for it.
The name is just a handle - a good handle and if you can attach a story to it fair enough. Of course it gets boring if someone gets all precious about it and puts a tune and its history on some pedestal. Especially when no-one else is really interested. Or you get a shower of sycophants hanging on to every word some self appointed master spouts out, then that's an unhealthy session, and I've seen that all too often.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Could it be that if tunes names are relevant to some people in a session it is before they are played, not afterwards. The expression on peoples faces when asked could often read as "don't know off hand and don't want to think just now" as if their thoughts have moved on the the next thing (thing = set, beer, conversation, pee etc)
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Often, people ask stuff like "what was that second to last tune you just played there?" You think for a bit, trying to remember what tune it was, you remember the name, you tell them and tell them a couple of records they can find it on. But the next time you see them, have they learned it? Of course not. They are really just asking you 'cause they want to seem like they know what they are on about. Or worse, they just want to talk to you and they think it's a conversation starter.
I admit to resorting to shrugging my shoulders to such people I know to have a history of such behaviour.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Sometimes people just get fed up being asked tune titles by people who will instantly forget them anyway.
One guy I know reacted rather irately afler being pestered for tune titles all evening. He turned to the unfortunate interrogator and said "what do you think I am, a f***in' encyclopedia?"
Another friend has resorted to answering with either "The farting badger" or "The whore at the hockey match"
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I have a feeling I know the type of player your on about conan, if not their actual identity. It has to be said that is a rather irate response to say the least.
People who ask the name of the penultimate or whatever tune do so mostly as a kind of compliment, thinking rather than saying, something like, "geez, that was a mighty tune and you carried it off well, if you have a name for it I'll try and remember (despite these 9 pints of guinness) to look it up and next time we get together in a session I'll join in with you because it would sound even better if a few of us played it."
So maybe we shouldn't dismiss the askers so readily and try to be a bit more encyclopaedic.
That's my thoughts on this.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
You can tell if there's any sincerity in it. If there is, and I know the person and I see them regularly and like them, and I don't know the name of the tune, I'll make an effort to tpo play the tune every week for a few weeks and, hey presto, everyone will then know it. If I know the person and like them, but don't see them that often, I might even scribble it out for them.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
And if I've had nine pints and found a tune someone's played particularly splendid, I'd be inclined to say something like, "geez, that was a mighty tune and you carried it off well, if you have a name for it don't bother to tell me, 'cause I'll never remember it. But if you can remember to play it again next time we get together in a session I'll be grateful. And if you can, see if you can play it a little earlier on in the evening and I'll maybe have a go at it."
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
how else do new tunes osmose their way into sessions?
you practice a new tune (for that session) to a good enough level that you can display the fruits of your practice in public. You then play it out. some interested player asks you what's it called. if you remember the name you tell them. they go off and learn it. within a few weeks they join in with you. it then becomes one of the tunes in your sessions repertoire. why would someone have a problem about that and encyclopoaedia remarks, other than if they didn't want someone else to pay along with them, in which case they want to play a gig, not a local pub session.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
quite right alf, (except that we wouldn't go off and learn a tune from another source if you've heard your mate play it. You'd end up coming back the next week with a different version. You'd learn straight from them instead.)
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Ah Rook, fair play to you. I have fallen into the old-timers trap of “haven’t we beat this one to death already?” forgetting the first rule of the education process: Nobody learns nuttin’ unless you beat it to death.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
...and, case in point, Alf and Llig bring up a good point by flogging the ol' equine some more.
It's two different stories, telling your buddy the name of the new one you sprung on him this week (or vice-versa, thanks cjp) or the infrequent stranger who won't be bothered to learn it anyway and it just making yackety yack.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
SWFL most often if I know the name of a tune I can remember it. That was the case when I was transcribing everything.
Now I play by ear & do not see the name unless I am listening to a recording & have the tunes listed.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
A flute player friend of mine in Wexford always used to say with great authority when questioned about the name of a tune " that's called The Lonesome Lodger".
Sometimes he'd get away with it a dozen times in a session before anybody copped on.
Also he'd sometimes use "The Golden Crubeen" or " The Whore in the Nettles Roaring."
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I ask for name because I can (a) pick up the tune at a session after hearing it for many weeks, even months. Maybe in 3-6 months I can play the tune on my own solidly and remember it. Unless it's a difficult tune, in which case, not a chance, ever. Or (b) get the name and go off and learn it off a recording and be able to play it the following week. I wish I could learn tunes on the fly and know them inside out within the course of a night but I can't.
Of course when I ask for the name I suffer from not being able to remember it the next day. So I have started writing it down as a draft text message so I can save it on my cell phone. That way I have a list of tunes I heard and wanted to learn. Not a bad system.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Then there's the related business of players at gigs giving their sources- "here's a coupla tunes we learnt from Bridie Lenahan in Ballinatupper, when we were down there on our holidays" etc.
I've often wondered why they do that, since it's not always very gripping. Maybe it's just to fill the time and give themselves a breather between sets, though sometimes it has an almost devotional feel to it. Even then, the name seems to have slightly less importance than the provenance.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think people do it at gigs as a means to chat to the audience between sets. If your audience consist of other folkies, they might actually be interested. If not, well, it seems less awkward to yabber away about something than to just play one set after another.
I think it also gives the performer some kind of authority -- in a way it validates your own playing to say something like, "I learned the next tune from the playing of Willie Clancy." If you were to play the uilleann piping gig drinking game and you had to take a drink every time someone said they learned a tune from Ennis or Clancy (and Leo Rowsome, Johnny Doran, and Tommy Reck to a lesser extent) you would be insensible by the end of it. I see it as a ritual which connects their playing to the "tradition." It alerts your audience to the fact that you have listened to Clancy (or Ennis or whoever) and are therefore participating in the flow of the piping tradition, and that your playing has been influenced by those individuals.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I'd always thought it was common courtesy - acknowledging their sources. A respect for their peer group. "Gives the performer some kind of authority " sounds a bit like name dropping. Maybe that sometimes.
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
There's a certain breed of musician, fluent in a certain musical language, musical style, that absorbs tunes by participating in sessions every week. They're not interested in the titles or where the tunes come from. They zone out and let their unconscious handle everything. I believe this type of musician honestly doesn't know a lot of tune names. They show up to play.
I figured out pretty early on in Old-Time and Irish jams not to continually ask for tune titles. I usually only ask once per session, if that. It just seems to bother people when you're always asking tune titles. I noticed early on how the facial expressions and tones of voice seemed to be saying, "You're missing the point, kid. Stop bugging us anf pay attention to the music."
This whole topic reminds me of when Bruce Lee said, "Don't mistake the finger for the moon."
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
'yabber away about something'
mmmm... one of the things that really got me into this music big-time was listening to Cathal McConnell, any time I went to see The Boys of the Lough, many years ago, and he would yabber on endlessly about the history of tunes and associated anecdotes. As an impressionable youngster the fact that all of these tunes had a history - a life of their own, almost, was almost magical. So they weren't just *tunes* but a part of some local landscape in Ireland Scotland or Shetland. Sounds a bit twee now but it grabbed me by the bollox at the time.
People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think I’ve figured out why people do this. Those tune name discussions can get *really* boring in a hurry! You know,
“what was that third reel called?”
“oh, it’s the Hare in the Foxhole, I think, but it might also be called the Hare *over* the Foxhole, I don’t remember, it was on Seamus McGuiness’s cd with the Fox in the Rabbit Warren…”
“No, not the Fox in the Rabbit Warren, it was the Goose in the Hen House, Seamus McGuinness got that wrong”
“no, it just sounds like the Goose in the Hen House, but it really is more like Cat Scratches on the Fence Post...or was it Cat Scratches on the *side* of the Fence Post…”
And on and on until you want to poke yourself in the eye with a sharp stick. Now, I love knowing the names of tunes, but I’m starting to think that if you can’t say it either a) briefly, or b) with a fascinating story about how you learned it or where you found it, it’s better not to bother. That’s my latest theory, anyway.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Aww, come on, that's part of the crack! Why try to quash it? If it really bores you, then go to the bar for a drink or something. But the more you know about tunes, where people got them, what different names they go by, and what the "story" of each tune is, the better off you are in my mind...
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Reverend
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Actually Kennedy, you've got it the wrong way round. People don't know the names of tunes because those tune name discussions are really really boring.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Well, there's a quite a bit going on, I think. If it's a well known tune and you really should know it, it might be considered uncool to offer the name. But if it's obscure and people want to impress their mates, you can be sure they'll be pretty quick to say "Oh that .. that's xyx"!!
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
On the forum people are usually pretty good about providing a tune name. There might be more than one name. But you can suss that out it in your session. Or just name the sets you play.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Is there some kind of inverse proportion law at work- the more tunes you can play, the less you need to bother knowing their names- a kind of mental energy saving?
From my limited experience, professional players stress less about it than other mere mortals- I'm sure they know (or have known) a lot of the names, but have just moved on.
Personally, I just happen to like names- well, initials, anyway
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Here Lyeth
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Some people like to pretend that they have such a vast wealth of music stored in their minds that they can't remember the names, or where they got them from, even though they've just trotted out a tune that's obviously lifted right off a Kevin Burke CD...
Most people who do have too many tunes to remember the names don't sound like poor imitations of Kevin Burke.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by RR
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Kennedy, perhaps you could lead off with one of the Paddy Fahey tunes which has not been played in your session. Then you can just sit back while the mates invent some name.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Let me correct one thing---what I was describing doesn't happen quite so much at my session---I've been visiting some other sessions recently and noticed it in those places. It also struck me how one particular person told the most interesting story about how he learned this one tune from a recording from 30 years ago by a person he used to know (you had to be there to appreciate it)...and it made me wish that more tune discussions could be really interesting like that.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Start doing that.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Yeah, I know. I plan to. Gotta start collecting really good stories.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1880
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by RR
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4236
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by RR
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Here's an amazing epiphany I've come to recently. I've found that some people remember tune names, and some don't. I've also found most attempts to describe this phenomena are usually not accurate. Best to simply enjoy the mystery.
# Posted on December 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think that the longer you've been playing, the more easily it comes to pick up and learn a tune heard in a session without having to locate it under a name on an album or (shock, horror, probe..) in a Book of Dots. You are more able to suss its characteristics and design just through hearing it, and treat it as something fairly abstract.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by nicholas
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I have a rake of tunes I learned years ago off Kevin burke records (that's records, not CDs). And while I can't recall their names, I always refer people to the particular recording, even if the version I now prefer came from elsewhere. Surely that's more honest than merely regurgitating some abstract label?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
If The Cap Fits
or
Eavesdropper?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Absolutely Michael. If you can recall where you picked up a tune, not letting on to be 'cool' is pretty pathetic. I think it comes from inecurity, and a wish to appear like the tune hs been absorbed through one's mother's milk, rather than learned painstakingly from a CD that was bought from Amazon. Certain people feel they have to pretend that they've got a magic insight into the music. Maybe it's about cultural validation?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by RR
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
There are are actually four reasons for not providing the name of a tune played when asked:
1) Don't know the name.
2) Do know the name - just can't recall it.
3) Do know the name, but won't tell you.
4) Any other reason why.
Contrast with:
If all be true that I do think,
There are four reasons why folks drink
Good health, good friends - or being dry;
Or any other reason why ....
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
3) and 4) aren't actually reasons, Mix.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by RR
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
For not telling you the tune name - or for drinking?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
SWFL: Your above entry --- Excellent, really. and amazingly I have noted the same pattern in my neck of the woods!
Now, how might this relate to some people being into different instruments, styles, artists, degree of involvement/obsession with the music, etc?
Who knows how many fine stimulating threads this could generate... (unless some high and mighty authority figure delares them to be "really really boring", that is.)
;-P
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Rook
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
In my experience, in the middle of a session, most tune-freaks just hear something in their head, have a think if they can actually trot it out in public, then if so they just go for it.
The name is just a handle - a good handle and if you can attach a story to it fair enough. Of course it gets boring if someone gets all precious about it and puts a tune and its history on some pedestal. Especially when no-one else is really interested. Or you get a shower of sycophants hanging on to every word some self appointed master spouts out, then that's an unhealthy session, and I've seen that all too often.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by danny flute whistle box
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Could it be that if tunes names are relevant to some people in a session it is before they are played, not afterwards. The expression on peoples faces when asked could often read as "don't know off hand and don't want to think just now" as if their thoughts have moved on the the next thing (thing = set, beer, conversation, pee etc)
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by david_h
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Often, people ask stuff like "what was that second to last tune you just played there?" You think for a bit, trying to remember what tune it was, you remember the name, you tell them and tell them a couple of records they can find it on. But the next time you see them, have they learned it? Of course not. They are really just asking you 'cause they want to seem like they know what they are on about. Or worse, they just want to talk to you and they think it's a conversation starter.
I admit to resorting to shrugging my shoulders to such people I know to have a history of such behaviour.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Sometimes people just get fed up being asked tune titles by people who will instantly forget them anyway.
One guy I know reacted rather irately afler being pestered for tune titles all evening. He turned to the unfortunate interrogator and said "what do you think I am, a f***in' encyclopedia?"
Another friend has resorted to answering with either "The farting badger" or "The whore at the hockey match"
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I have a feeling I know the type of player your on about conan, if not their actual identity. It has to be said that is a rather irate response to say the least.
People who ask the name of the penultimate or whatever tune do so mostly as a kind of compliment, thinking rather than saying, something like, "geez, that was a mighty tune and you carried it off well, if you have a name for it I'll try and remember (despite these 9 pints of guinness) to look it up and next time we get together in a session I'll join in with you because it would sound even better if a few of us played it."
So maybe we shouldn't dismiss the askers so readily and try to be a bit more encyclopaedic.
That's my thoughts on this.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by danny flute whistle box
Don't know names of tunes
You may have craic with Guinness.
9 pints does craic make.
I'm sure the one with nine pints sees things differently.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
You can tell if there's any sincerity in it. If there is, and I know the person and I see them regularly and like them, and I don't know the name of the tune, I'll make an effort to tpo play the tune every week for a few weeks and, hey presto, everyone will then know it. If I know the person and like them, but don't see them that often, I might even scribble it out for them.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
And if I've had nine pints and found a tune someone's played particularly splendid, I'd be inclined to say something like, "geez, that was a mighty tune and you carried it off well, if you have a name for it don't bother to tell me, 'cause I'll never remember it. But if you can remember to play it again next time we get together in a session I'll be grateful. And if you can, see if you can play it a little earlier on in the evening and I'll maybe have a go at it."
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
how else do new tunes osmose their way into sessions?
you practice a new tune (for that session) to a good enough level that you can display the fruits of your practice in public. You then play it out. some interested player asks you what's it called. if you remember the name you tell them. they go off and learn it. within a few weeks they join in with you. it then becomes one of the tunes in your sessions repertoire. why would someone have a problem about that and encyclopoaedia remarks, other than if they didn't want someone else to pay along with them, in which case they want to play a gig, not a local pub session.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by danny flute whistle box
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
quite right alf, (except that we wouldn't go off and learn a tune from another source if you've heard your mate play it. You'd end up coming back the next week with a different version. You'd learn straight from them instead.)
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
So all the tunes are contained inside a session?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Ah Rook, fair play to you. I have fallen into the old-timers trap of “haven’t we beat this one to death already?” forgetting the first rule of the education process: Nobody learns nuttin’ unless you beat it to death.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
...and, case in point, Alf and Llig bring up a good point by flogging the ol' equine some more.
It's two different stories, telling your buddy the name of the new one you sprung on him this week (or vice-versa, thanks cjp) or the infrequent stranger who won't be bothered to learn it anyway and it just making yackety yack.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
SWFL most often if I know the name of a tune I can remember it. That was the case when I was transcribing everything.
Now I play by ear & do not see the name unless I am listening to a recording & have the tunes listed.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
A flute player friend of mine in Wexford always used to say with great authority when questioned about the name of a tune " that's called The Lonesome Lodger".
Sometimes he'd get away with it a dozen times in a session before anybody copped on.
Also he'd sometimes use "The Golden Crubeen" or " The Whore in the Nettles Roaring."
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by banjoburger
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I ask for name because I can (a) pick up the tune at a session after hearing it for many weeks, even months. Maybe in 3-6 months I can play the tune on my own solidly and remember it. Unless it's a difficult tune, in which case, not a chance, ever. Or (b) get the name and go off and learn it off a recording and be able to play it the following week. I wish I could learn tunes on the fly and know them inside out within the course of a night but I can't.
Of course when I ask for the name I suffer from not being able to remember it the next day. So I have started writing it down as a draft text message so I can save it on my cell phone. That way I have a list of tunes I heard and wanted to learn. Not a bad system.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Then there's the related business of players at gigs giving their sources- "here's a coupla tunes we learnt from Bridie Lenahan in Ballinatupper, when we were down there on our holidays" etc.
I've often wondered why they do that, since it's not always very gripping. Maybe it's just to fill the time and give themselves a breather between sets, though sometimes it has an almost devotional feel to it. Even then, the name seems to have slightly less importance than the provenance.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Here Lyeth
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Hmmm...on their holidays....The Humours of Benidorm?.....The Pride of Lloret de Mar? Tell Her I am...sunburnt? ....The Lager Lout in the Gap?
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by danny flute whistle box
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Or, with the present state of the pound..."Here's a couple we learned from bitter experience- 'I Have No Money' and the 'Tenpenny Bit' ... "
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by Here Lyeth
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I think people do it at gigs as a means to chat to the audience between sets. If your audience consist of other folkies, they might actually be interested. If not, well, it seems less awkward to yabber away about something than to just play one set after another.
I think it also gives the performer some kind of authority -- in a way it validates your own playing to say something like, "I learned the next tune from the playing of Willie Clancy." If you were to play the uilleann piping gig drinking game and you had to take a drink every time someone said they learned a tune from Ennis or Clancy (and Leo Rowsome, Johnny Doran, and Tommy Reck to a lesser extent) you would be insensible by the end of it. I see it as a ritual which connects their playing to the "tradition." It alerts your audience to the fact that you have listened to Clancy (or Ennis or whoever) and are therefore participating in the flow of the piping tradition, and that your playing has been influenced by those individuals.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
I'd always thought it was common courtesy - acknowledging their sources. A respect for their peer group. "Gives the performer some kind of authority " sounds a bit like name dropping. Maybe that sometimes.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by david_h
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
There's a certain breed of musician, fluent in a certain musical language, musical style, that absorbs tunes by participating in sessions every week. They're not interested in the titles or where the tunes come from. They zone out and let their unconscious handle everything. I believe this type of musician honestly doesn't know a lot of tune names. They show up to play.
I figured out pretty early on in Old-Time and Irish jams not to continually ask for tune titles. I usually only ask once per session, if that. It just seems to bother people when you're always asking tune titles. I noticed early on how the facial expressions and tones of voice seemed to be saying, "You're missing the point, kid. Stop bugging us anf pay attention to the music."
This whole topic reminds me of when Bruce Lee said, "Don't mistake the finger for the moon."
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by stephenseifert
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
'yabber away about something'
mmmm... one of the things that really got me into this music big-time was listening to Cathal McConnell, any time I went to see The Boys of the Lough, many years ago, and he would yabber on endlessly about the history of tunes and associated anecdotes. As an impressionable youngster the fact that all of these tunes had a history - a life of their own, almost, was almost magical. So they weren't just *tunes* but a part of some local landscape in Ireland Scotland or Shetland. Sounds a bit twee now but it grabbed me by the bollox at the time.
# Posted on December 18th 2008 by danny flute whistle box
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Alf, you do know that Cathal makes most of that stuff up. He's a show man.
# Posted on December 19th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: People who know the names of tunes but say they don't
Yeah, I'm sure you're right michael. It still sounded good though.
# Posted on December 20th 2008 by danny flute whistle box