Having sat through 30 minutes of this BBC2 programme tonight I don't think I've ever come across such a travesty. The word "Ceoil" in the title would not unreasonably lead one to expect some music content, but the closest we got was a few riffs from the fiddle players during the interminable songs. To add insult to injury one of these fiddlers was Tyrone's trad virtuouso, Cathal Hayden. Having spotted him with the resident group playing at the start of the programme I expected at least one set from him during the show but sadly this wasn't to be.
Geanntraí is light years ahead of this BBC2 effort and I hope the begrudgers bear this in mind before voicing any further complaints against the RTE series in future.
I couldn't agree more Bannerman. It was a terrible programme and was all over the place. Terrible show and poor C. Hayden had to sit through it! Shame.
I think the frustration of watching such a class musician as Cathal Hayden sitting on his hands was the worst part for me. Now you mention it amongthelilies you're probably right as I have a feeling Martin Donohoe, Séamus Fay and the rest of the Cavan gang appeared on a programme in this series some months ago.
I don't think it's a misnomer as such you may just have caught a dodgy program, I missed it. On the whole I've enjoyed watching Blas Ceoil, but it is a bit hit and miss.
It's not a trad show but any one show that's featured the likes of Ciaran Tourish, Dermot Byrne, Goldie, Aidan O' Donnell, Ciarán O Maonigh, Seamus Fay, Teada etc isn't doing too bad.
I've discovered good contemporary folk artists on the show like Rory Gallagher and the Ben Reel Band.
From my perspective the titles not a misnomer, but yes, some weeks can be dodgy alright
Whilst I have seen snippets of programmes from this series in the past, I didn't see this particular one and so cannot comment. However had I seen it, I couldn't comment on the quality or how it was made as I know nothing about the making of television programmes.
The word "ceol" is the Irish language word for music. Not exclusively Irish Trad music as it's known but all music- Indian, Peruvian, rock, grunge whatever and it certainly shows a certain bigotry to criticise the content because it wasn't the type or genre of music you like. Needless to say, it is also unfairly critical of the music that was on it just because it wasn't what you expected. A suddenly the music that others work so hard to make becomes a "travesty". Not to mention that this series has, in my experience, given a platform and opportunity for singer songwriters who might not otherwise get some tv time and of course it is done through the medium of the Irish language.If I am not mistaken, Blas Cheoil translates as "Taste of Music" and in that regard it does what it says on the tin
If you don't like the music, say so but it is hardly a travesty!! Such melodrama !
But it is the last line of Bannerman's first post that once again "takes the biscuit .-.Geanntraí is light years ahead of this BBC2 effort and I hope the begrudgers bear this in mind before voicing any further complaints against the RTE series in future." Did it ever occur to you Bannerman that maybe this programme is not meant to be totally and excusively Irish trad? If not, then Geanntrai is "hardly light years ahead". Geanntrai might show more of the content that you are interested in and indeed might be better made( I don't know) but "light years ahead"? And on the subject of Cathal Hayden- I have seen him three times in the last month on Irish television. If you want to see more of him, I suggest you get him a job as a newsreader.
Secondly, isn't it always the same in Ireland? When you call into question, or comment unfavourably on anything produced by the Irish institutions of music or language, you are a begrudger or indeed sometimes unpatriotic! Any talk of an "emperor's new clothes" aspect to Irish produced programmes bring down the wrath of the "patriots". To my mind, the large part of the comments passed regarding the Geanntrai series were about the aspect where local musicians were passed over in favour of players not from the locality. The Leitrim programme were Lunasa were given air time was a example. Another episode where the location was Kilcock in Kildare showed another professional band and one of the Begleys. One of the Begleys !! From Kerry? Suddenly finds himself on a programme from Kilcock which is hundreds of miles away!! And the locality full of young players !! Yeah, right ! So suddenly because of these comments, which I stand over, I am a begrudger? And this coming form someone who calls other people's music a travesty?
I didn't complain about the music, what little of it there was. It's the programme that was a travesty in masquerading as "A taste of Music" when there was virtually none on it. As for the recent criticisms of Geanntraí, to me this was just nit picking - complaints of technical deficiencies that weren't apparent on my TV, and also this business of which parish the musicians came from. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if they travelled from the planet Mars to appear on the programme so long as they play good trad music.
Ah that's ok then, just once we know ! Singing isn't music ! Or maybe it's just sean nós singing that you consider music? 'Cause if not, you're going to have to tell your aul pal Labhrás that there can be no more singing on the Comhaltas tours or concerts in Monkstown??? As for " so long as they play good trad music."- I presume you mean music you like and approve of and consider "good" I see
Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows only too well. We've often had this debate about how much singing is permissible in a session and I think most would agree that a song or two is always welcome. Whether it's Sean Nós or otherwise, I don't think many of us would be too bothered.
Last night at 10.00pm on BBC2. The only music that I caught (although I missed the very start) was the big session group - they were playing Lucy Campbell's.
yeah, that was the one I watched too...I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it. I suppose everyone has their own tastes. It's not meant to be mainly trad though, just a taster of music the counties have to offer. ;)
"Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows only too well"- I see !! Right ! So is that a narrowed down definition of the general interpretation of the word "music" according to Bannerman ? Perhaps you should drop the producers of the Blas Cheoil a line to explain that ( i.e. that people on the session.org think that singing is singing and not music- so you say) to them as they obviously don't know ! Perhaps again you might stop to consider that what you call music is not what producers of and musicians in, radio, tv and concerts all over the world neccessarily call music?
You saw the word "Ceol" or a version of on your tv listings and off you went with your remote and you didn't get what you thought you should, and all of a sudden, the music that those people who were on the show are making is not actually music as far as you are concerned ! Lovely ! Talk about bigotry?
I don't think Bannerman was expecting too much. The program calls itself "Blas Ceoil", which to someone immersed in trad music might generate some reasonable expectation of actually hearing some traditional music during the course of the program.
To have a programme in Irish on BBC at all has to be commended,have'n we come a long way! Was dying to hear Charlie Rice,hear he is playing great stuff these days!
“The word ‘Ceol’ in the title would, not unreasonably, lead one to expect some music content, but the closest we got was a few riffs from the fiddle players during the interminable songs.”
“Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows…”
Blimey! The Gaelic word “Ceol” means ‘music’ or ‘song’ or ‘singing’. (Seriously, look in a dictionary!) The Gaelic language is firmly against you here.
“Blas Ceoil” means “a taste of music” [encompassing both instrumental and vocal music]. And, even in English, the term ‘Music’ typically includes singing. We’re not going to say that Schubert’s songs are not really music in the strictest sense of the word, are we? Or that ‘The Shadows’ played rock-and-roll MUSIC but The Beatles (strictly speaking) didn’t!?
Again, in Gaelic ‘Ceol’ means music or song, or music which encompasses song). In Gaelic “ag ceol” means singing, but not playing instrumental music! Playing instrumental music is: ‘ag seinim ceoil’!
Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Having sat through 30 minutes of this BBC2 programme tonight I don't think I've ever come across such a travesty. The word "Ceoil" in the title would not unreasonably lead one to expect some music content, but the closest we got was a few riffs from the fiddle players during the interminable songs. To add insult to injury one of these fiddlers was Tyrone's trad virtuouso, Cathal Hayden. Having spotted him with the resident group playing at the start of the programme I expected at least one set from him during the show but sadly this wasn't to be.
Geanntraí is light years ahead of this BBC2 effort and I hope the begrudgers bear this in mind before voicing any further complaints against the RTE series in future.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I couldn't agree more Bannerman. It was a terrible programme and was all over the place. Terrible show and poor C. Hayden had to sit through it! Shame.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by csparpd
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
True, and this episode was from Carrickmore - there are plenty of good musos round there. There have been better episodes of Blas Ceoil though.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by dee.
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I think the frustration of watching such a class musician as Cathal Hayden sitting on his hands was the worst part for me. Now you mention it amongthelilies you're probably right as I have a feeling Martin Donohoe, Séamus Fay and the rest of the Cavan gang appeared on a programme in this series some months ago.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I don't think it's a misnomer as such you may just have caught a dodgy program, I missed it. On the whole I've enjoyed watching Blas Ceoil, but it is a bit hit and miss.
It's not a trad show but any one show that's featured the likes of Ciaran Tourish, Dermot Byrne, Goldie, Aidan O' Donnell, Ciarán O Maonigh, Seamus Fay, Teada etc isn't doing too bad.
I've discovered good contemporary folk artists on the show like Rory Gallagher and the Ben Reel Band.
From my perspective the titles not a misnomer, but yes, some weeks can be dodgy alright
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by newdeafman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Whilst I have seen snippets of programmes from this series in the past, I didn't see this particular one and so cannot comment. However had I seen it, I couldn't comment on the quality or how it was made as I know nothing about the making of television programmes.
The word "ceol" is the Irish language word for music. Not exclusively Irish Trad music as it's known but all music- Indian, Peruvian, rock, grunge whatever and it certainly shows a certain bigotry to criticise the content because it wasn't the type or genre of music you like. Needless to say, it is also unfairly critical of the music that was on it just because it wasn't what you expected. A suddenly the music that others work so hard to make becomes a "travesty". Not to mention that this series has, in my experience, given a platform and opportunity for singer songwriters who might not otherwise get some tv time and of course it is done through the medium of the Irish language.If I am not mistaken, Blas Cheoil translates as "Taste of Music" and in that regard it does what it says on the tin
If you don't like the music, say so but it is hardly a travesty!! Such melodrama !
But it is the last line of Bannerman's first post that once again "takes the biscuit .-.Geanntraí is light years ahead of this BBC2 effort and I hope the begrudgers bear this in mind before voicing any further complaints against the RTE series in future." Did it ever occur to you Bannerman that maybe this programme is not meant to be totally and excusively Irish trad? If not, then Geanntrai is "hardly light years ahead". Geanntrai might show more of the content that you are interested in and indeed might be better made( I don't know) but "light years ahead"? And on the subject of Cathal Hayden- I have seen him three times in the last month on Irish television. If you want to see more of him, I suggest you get him a job as a newsreader.
Secondly, isn't it always the same in Ireland? When you call into question, or comment unfavourably on anything produced by the Irish institutions of music or language, you are a begrudger or indeed sometimes unpatriotic! Any talk of an "emperor's new clothes" aspect to Irish produced programmes bring down the wrath of the "patriots". To my mind, the large part of the comments passed regarding the Geanntrai series were about the aspect where local musicians were passed over in favour of players not from the locality. The Leitrim programme were Lunasa were given air time was a example. Another episode where the location was Kilcock in Kildare showed another professional band and one of the Begleys. One of the Begleys !! From Kerry? Suddenly finds himself on a programme from Kilcock which is hundreds of miles away!! And the locality full of young players !! Yeah, right ! So suddenly because of these comments, which I stand over, I am a begrudger? And this coming form someone who calls other people's music a travesty?
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I didn't complain about the music, what little of it there was. It's the programme that was a travesty in masquerading as "A taste of Music" when there was virtually none on it. As for the recent criticisms of Geanntraí, to me this was just nit picking - complaints of technical deficiencies that weren't apparent on my TV, and also this business of which parish the musicians came from. As far as I'm concerned I don't care if they travelled from the planet Mars to appear on the programme so long as they play good trad music.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Ah that's ok then, just once we know ! Singing isn't music ! Or maybe it's just sean nós singing that you consider music? 'Cause if not, you're going to have to tell your aul pal Labhrás that there can be no more singing on the Comhaltas tours or concerts in Monkstown??? As for " so long as they play good trad music."- I presume you mean music you like and approve of and consider "good" I see
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows only too well. We've often had this debate about how much singing is permissible in a session and I think most would agree that a song or two is always welcome. Whether it's Sean Nós or otherwise, I don't think many of us would be too bothered.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
begrudger? not me anyway, im always giving out about geantrai. lol.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I thought it was a great programme!
"It's the programme that was a travesty in masquerading as "A taste of Music" when there was virtually none on it." - Bannerman
Bannerman, what programme were you watching? The one I watched had nothing but music!
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Britney Spears
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Last night at 10.00pm on BBC2. The only music that I caught (although I missed the very start) was the big session group - they were playing Lucy Campbell's.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
yeah, that was the one I watched too...I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it. I suppose everyone has their own tastes. It's not meant to be mainly trad though, just a taster of music the counties have to offer. ;)
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Britney Spears
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
"Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows only too well"- I see !! Right ! So is that a narrowed down definition of the general interpretation of the word "music" according to Bannerman ? Perhaps you should drop the producers of the Blas Cheoil a line to explain that ( i.e. that people on the session.org think that singing is singing and not music- so you say) to them as they obviously don't know ! Perhaps again you might stop to consider that what you call music is not what producers of and musicians in, radio, tv and concerts all over the world neccessarily call music?
You saw the word "Ceol" or a version of on your tv listings and off you went with your remote and you didn't get what you thought you should, and all of a sudden, the music that those people who were on the show are making is not actually music as far as you are concerned ! Lovely ! Talk about bigotry?
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
I don't think Bannerman was expecting too much. The program calls itself "Blas Ceoil", which to someone immersed in trad music might generate some reasonable expectation of actually hearing some traditional music during the course of the program.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Well you know what is said about expectations- they lead to resentments !
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Hit or miss, for sure. This episode was decent though, two sets from Boys of the Lough and two songs from Andy Irvine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SAKT1stmUo
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Ah!, you can't beat a decent double standard! Maybe the problem with the show is that it's produced for the BBC?
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Yes, I guess it always goes back to the Treaty lol ;p
# Posted on December 13th 2008 by dee.
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
To have a programme in Irish on BBC at all has to be commended,have'n we come a long way! Was dying to hear Charlie Rice,hear he is playing great stuff these days!
# Posted on December 13th 2008 by dílis
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
“The word ‘Ceol’ in the title would, not unreasonably, lead one to expect some music content, but the closest we got was a few riffs from the fiddle players during the interminable songs.”
“Singing is singing and music is music as anyone on this site knows…”
Blimey! The Gaelic word “Ceol” means ‘music’ or ‘song’ or ‘singing’. (Seriously, look in a dictionary!) The Gaelic language is firmly against you here.
“Blas Ceoil” means “a taste of music” [encompassing both instrumental and vocal music]. And, even in English, the term ‘Music’ typically includes singing. We’re not going to say that Schubert’s songs are not really music in the strictest sense of the word, are we? Or that ‘The Shadows’ played rock-and-roll MUSIC but The Beatles (strictly speaking) didn’t!?
Again, in Gaelic ‘Ceol’ means music or song, or music which encompasses song). In Gaelic “ag ceol” means singing, but not playing instrumental music! Playing instrumental music is: ‘ag seinim ceoil’!
Using ‘Ceol’ for singing is NOT a misnomer!
# Posted on December 15th 2008 by whistleblower
Re: Blas Ceoil - A Misnomer
Blas amhran?
# Posted on December 15th 2008 by iwerzon