The subject of Donegal music and its present day bearers is one that interests me very much. Could anyone direct me to recordings of past or present day Donegal musicians who haven't been effected by outside influences. I'm particularily curious about this topic for the reason that all most every present day "Donegal" player seems to only credit or talk about other Donegal fiddlers. Since this is a most unnatural and unhealthy approach to music making, and that great musicians, historically speaking were never musically restrained by boundaries or mapped lines, this relatively new phenomenon is of great interest.
You said it yourself addict!!! They talk about or credit other Donegal players because they enjoy them but they are also influenced outside of their own county. What's your point?
Thanks Rook. I'll do that. Past discussions may reveal answers to this topic.
llig, I'm aware that in the past Irish music from Donegal to Kerry has been influenced by Scottish music. No need to be a smart arse.
My point is sailor that it seems to be looked down upon by Donegal musicians to consciously take in other styles or even credit their worth, while subconsciouly they adopt many outside stylistic traits.
>"all most every present day "Donegal" player seems to only credit or talk about other Donegal fiddlers. Since this is a most unnatural and unhealthy approach to music making"
First I've heard of this - how did you arrive at this conclusion? Or rather, if this is a trend, is it any more so than eg Kerry or Clare players?
And could you please explain why, if it is the case, that this is unnatural and **unhealthy**?
And also, if this is the case, why are you so interested in music of such morbidity?
Musicians who play Donegal music uninfluenced by Scottish music (or visa versa) would not be playing Donegal music. Geographically it is closer to the Hebrides than to Cork. Whether folk like it or not many of the tunes are closely related.
Addict, You obviously need to visit Donegal, or Ireland for that matter to get the true spirit of Donegal music. It's the landscape, the accents, and the people that make this county as musically rich as it is. All this other stuff you're on about is too far out, and not worth contemplating.
Donegal fiddle music is yesterday's thing. Don't you know that everyone is now listening to Donegal Piana Accordian Music? Get with the program sir. MT for president of Quayowaltas.
Seriously (only joking), no other fiddle music compares to Donegal fiddle music, so why talk about anything else?
No, seriously, the question is a load of liathróidí, the Doherty's music has loads of Coleman influences, etc. etc. Saw Danny Meehan recently and he was going on about Coleman and other younger players (not from Donegal) more than others.
I often find the banter a bit dry and feel that the music being played can bring a bit of life into a discussion. Now where else could you find a Donegal piper so readily?
This thread is definitely not dry and Evolve's Youtube clip of Tommy Peoples is a classic. Tommy is in my mind the greatest fiddler of all time. Not only those unique triplets but also his magic compositions such as Beautiful Gortree, the second reel in the clip.
To think I used to view the trad music scene as being full of joyous friendly folk who just wanted to share their delight in music and were happy to share the same from others
The first one on the Tommy Peoples clip is the Silver Spire. Donegal tune? So to which other Donegal fiddle player does Tommy Peoples "credit", as you put it, this tune?
I don't know what that last one has anything to do with this.
Tongue in cheek as it may have been, the clip I uploaded IS Johnny Doherty, playing at The Golden Gate in Carrick on may 22nd 1974. it's only one of 27 track that show quite the variety of his repertoire. It also goes to show people don't take their influences too serious, they'll play whatever is popular or what they like playing.
An obsequious bit of tipping the cap perhaps?
Kilfarboy, exactly correct in that they play what they want etc. As does anyone. if it so happens that what determines what you want to play is influenced by donegal or whatever music, then so be it. For example I'd like to be able to play Viva Seguin at a session for some kind of non-Irish Music interlude, but somehow I can't see it happening...... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NtyM2LaQK2E&feature=related
I think if you're a music fan and you have grown up in the hills of Donegal, you will hear some great fiddle players who play in your town quite often and so they will be your earliest and possibly strongest influence, you would probably know them to talk to and discuss music with, as opposed to Kerry fiddle players who you meet at an later stage in a session who wouldn't have the same impact on your music because you are now a good deal older and less easy to influence, so as a Donegal fiddler it would be difficult to name some Kerry fiddler you met in your late teens or early 20s and say that he/she has been a great influence .....the people you meet at an early imressionable age are the ones who do most for you in the influence department.
Any Donegal fiddlers that I know are extremely open to music from outside the local traditions. But you all seem to be missing the essential aspect of the repertoire. The Donegal repertoire is distinct from the rest of Ireland (as Jimmy Campbell puts it "we play all those tunes but we play our own as well"). We spend a lot of time on Donegal music but there is very little point in starting our favourite highlands in a session in a different part of the country. It's natural then for Donegal fiddlers to gravitate towards others with the same musical interests.
Don't forget as well that the not all Donegal fiddlers play the repertoire or styles that people associate with Donegal and also that all the above applies to, say, people from Cork/Kerry/Limerick who are into polkas and slides. You can over-analyse this stuff.
I associate 'Donegal music' with fiiddle playing even though I have heard alot of box and guitar. But the Box player seemed to emulate the fiddle techniques.
And from what I've seen in cork and Kerry, polkas and slides are their 'stock and trade' as a freind aptly put it. May be a generalization, but from my sheltered existance one that seems appropriate.
Packie Byrne. Whistle.
Just Google his name, and buy the books.
Perhaps because he never let his skill as a musician get in the way of entertaining an audience he may have been underrated. But the collection of his tunes shows just what a fine musician he was. Alas, he is too old to play now, but those of us who remember him from his many years in London, and have the albums he recorded with Bonnie Shaljean playing the harp, still treasure him.
Of course Tom should count (he and Danny Meehan were/are the pride of Mountcharles).
There's also uilleann piper Neil A. Duddy - http://bit.ly/vhIR - as well as accordionists Hughie Kelly and Patsy Dan Rogers (the King of Tory).
Doimnic Mac Giolla Bhríde plays both the uilleann pipes and piano accordion. There's whistler Seosamh Mac Grianna (Joe Mhicí Jimí Green) from Rannafast and dare I mention Martin Tourish?
Yes, he used to use one of these shower attachments you fit onto bath taps. As I said, never one to let his skill get in the way of entertaining people !
Donegal music. Please help.
Donegal music. Please help.
The subject of Donegal music and its present day bearers is one that interests me very much. Could anyone direct me to recordings of past or present day Donegal musicians who haven't been effected by outside influences. I'm particularily curious about this topic for the reason that all most every present day "Donegal" player seems to only credit or talk about other Donegal fiddlers. Since this is a most unnatural and unhealthy approach to music making, and that great musicians, historically speaking were never musically restrained by boundaries or mapped lines, this relatively new phenomenon is of great interest.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
For starters, evollve:
] to the subject and the musicians, past and current.
Go to Discussions.
Click on Search.
Type in Donegal Music.
Take your pick of past discussions and references [thousands of them
Good luck.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Piece
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
You mean musicians from Donegal who don't play music influenced by Scottish music? Or who don't play violins from Italy?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by ...
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
You said it yourself addict!!! They talk about or credit other Donegal players because they enjoy them but they are also influenced outside of their own county. What's your point?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by The Sailor on the Rock
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Thanks Rook. I'll do that. Past discussions may reveal answers to this topic.
llig, I'm aware that in the past Irish music from Donegal to Kerry has been influenced by Scottish music. No need to be a smart arse.
My point is sailor that it seems to be looked down upon by Donegal musicians to consciously take in other styles or even credit their worth, while subconsciouly they adopt many outside stylistic traits.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
>"all most every present day "Donegal" player seems to only credit or talk about other Donegal fiddlers. Since this is a most unnatural and unhealthy approach to music making"
First I've heard of this - how did you arrive at this conclusion? Or rather, if this is a trend, is it any more so than eg Kerry or Clare players?
And could you please explain why, if it is the case, that this is unnatural and **unhealthy**?
And also, if this is the case, why are you so interested in music of such morbidity?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Musicians who play Donegal music uninfluenced by Scottish music (or visa versa) would not be playing Donegal music. Geographically it is closer to the Hebrides than to Cork. Whether folk like it or not many of the tunes are closely related.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by bogman
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I wouldn't exactly call Donegal music morbid Alf.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
"Musicians who play Donegal music uninfluenced by Scottish music (or visa versa)"
You mean "Musicians who don't play Donegal music influenced by Scottish music"?
Ow.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Morbid Alf. Sounds like an old fella down the local boozah.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Could the real 'Morbid Alf' please stand up.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
So, what are your answers to my questions?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Addict, You obviously need to visit Donegal, or Ireland for that matter to get the true spirit of Donegal music. It's the landscape, the accents, and the people that make this county as musically rich as it is. All this other stuff you're on about is too far out, and not worth contemplating.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by The Sailor on the Rock
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Donegal fiddle music is yesterday's thing. Don't you know that everyone is now listening to Donegal Piana Accordian Music? Get with the program sir. MT for president of Quayowaltas.
Seriously (only joking), no other fiddle music compares to Donegal fiddle music, so why talk about anything else?
No, seriously, the question is a load of liathróidí, the Doherty's music has loads of Coleman influences, etc. etc. Saw Danny Meehan recently and he was going on about Coleman and other younger players (not from Donegal) more than others.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by continuo
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Liathróidí in aghaidh an balla.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I can't find any clips of the great Donegal fiddler, Tommy Peoples but I did find one of a fine young player, Melanie Houton at the Fleadh in Tullamore 2008 over at http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_278_5_melanie_houton/.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Eureka, I thought I'd made the breakthrough and found a Donegal musician other than a fiddler as the clip at http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_213_1_ciaran_macfeidmhlimidh_on_uilleann_pipes/ is of piper Ciaran MacFeidmhlimidh. However when you read the small print under the clip it states that he's also a fiddle player. Drat!!
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Bannerman. How you love your comhaltas music. You obviously fly the comhaltas banner.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHqFlS3gNMs
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I often find the banter a bit dry and feel that the music being played can bring a bit of life into a discussion. Now where else could you find a Donegal piper so readily?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
This thread is definitely not dry and Evolve's Youtube clip of Tommy Peoples is a classic. Tommy is in my mind the greatest fiddler of all time. Not only those unique triplets but also his magic compositions such as Beautiful Gortree, the second reel in the clip.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I just uploaded this for the occasion,. I'll leave it there a couple of days.
Unadulterated Johnny Doherty:
http://www.box.net/shared/a6l8zf2ji4
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Someone's had their nose put out of joint.
To think I used to view the trad music scene as being full of joyous friendly folk who just wanted to share their delight in music and were happy to share the same from others
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Bren
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpcM6LEeon4
I just uploaded this for the occasion,. I'll leave it there a couple of days.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by evolve as addict
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
The first one on the Tommy Peoples clip is the Silver Spire. Donegal tune? So to which other Donegal fiddle player does Tommy Peoples "credit", as you put it, this tune?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I don't know what that last one has anything to do with this.
Tongue in cheek as it may have been, the clip I uploaded IS Johnny Doherty, playing at The Golden Gate in Carrick on may 22nd 1974. it's only one of 27 track that show quite the variety of his repertoire. It also goes to show people don't take their influences too serious, they'll play whatever is popular or what they like playing.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
An obsequious bit of tipping the cap perhaps?
Kilfarboy, exactly correct in that they play what they want etc. As does anyone. if it so happens that what determines what you want to play is influenced by donegal or whatever music, then so be it. For example I'd like to be able to play Viva Seguin at a session for some kind of non-Irish Music interlude, but somehow I can't see it happening......
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=NtyM2LaQK2E&feature=related
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Rudall the time
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
What the Linnane clip has to do with this I don't know.
I found this which might be more relevant.
http://www.soundlantern.com/SoundPage.do?ToId=24160
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by continuo
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I think if you're a music fan and you have grown up in the hills of Donegal, you will hear some great fiddle players who play in your town quite often and so they will be your earliest and possibly strongest influence, you would probably know them to talk to and discuss music with, as opposed to Kerry fiddle players who you meet at an later stage in a session who wouldn't have the same impact on your music because you are now a good deal older and less easy to influence, so as a Donegal fiddler it would be difficult to name some Kerry fiddler you met in your late teens or early 20s and say that he/she has been a great influence .....the people you meet at an early imressionable age are the ones who do most for you in the influence department.
Regards
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Shylock
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
BTW it's peoples in the clip
http://www.soundlantern.com/SoundPage.do?ToId=24160
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by continuo
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Any Donegal fiddlers that I know are extremely open to music from outside the local traditions. But you all seem to be missing the essential aspect of the repertoire. The Donegal repertoire is distinct from the rest of Ireland (as Jimmy Campbell puts it "we play all those tunes but we play our own as well"). We spend a lot of time on Donegal music but there is very little point in starting our favourite highlands in a session in a different part of the country. It's natural then for Donegal fiddlers to gravitate towards others with the same musical interests.
Don't forget as well that the not all Donegal fiddlers play the repertoire or styles that people associate with Donegal and also that all the above applies to, say, people from Cork/Kerry/Limerick who are into polkas and slides. You can over-analyse this stuff.
Jim
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by skerries
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Thanks for that, Kilfar - enjoyed that.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by Pomme de Terre
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Have you got the words to go with that tune Kilfar?
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I dunno
I associate 'Donegal music' with fiiddle playing even though I have heard alot of box and guitar. But the Box player seemed to emulate the fiddle techniques.
And from what I've seen in cork and Kerry, polkas and slides are their 'stock and trade' as a freind aptly put it. May be a generalization, but from my sheltered existance one that seems appropriate.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Isn't Donegal a bit of a world apart? It looks like it on the map, anyway.
Come to think of it, I've never heard of a traditional "household name" from there who wasn't a fiddler.
# Posted on December 11th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Tarlach Mac Suibhne? Dermot Byrne?
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Pomme de Terre
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Packie Byrne. Whistle.
Just Google his name, and buy the books.
Perhaps because he never let his skill as a musician get in the way of entertaining an audience he may have been underrated. But the collection of his tunes shows just what a fine musician he was. Alas, he is too old to play now, but those of us who remember him from his many years in London, and have the albums he recorded with Bonnie Shaljean playing the harp, still treasure him.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Would Tom Doherty, melodeon, count? Although he spent most of his life in New York I think.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by Bren
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Of course Tom should count (he and Danny Meehan were/are the pride of Mountcharles).
There's also uilleann piper Neil A. Duddy - http://bit.ly/vhIR - as well as accordionists Hughie Kelly and Patsy Dan Rogers (the King of Tory).
Doimnic Mac Giolla Bhríde plays both the uilleann pipes and piano accordion. There's whistler Seosamh Mac Grianna (Joe Mhicí Jimí Green) from Rannafast and dare I mention Martin Tourish?
That's just scratching the surface.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
I am now better informed - thanks!
Didn't Packie Byrne use to play two or three whistles at once on the end of rubber tubes, or something?! I dimly remember seeing this.
# Posted on December 12th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Donegal music. Please help.
Yes, he used to use one of these shower attachments you fit onto bath taps. As I said, never one to let his skill get in the way of entertaining people !
# Posted on December 14th 2008 by Guernsey Pete