I Have searched the archives but found no answer and I am most interested in the opinions and thoughts of the ladies and gentlemen who wander here.
"The Star of The County Down"
I know it is a much over done song with a snappy march beat but I grew up playing it as a tune (reel) and still do. The music dictionary calls it an Irish ballad. I have heard it played as a waltz but have never considered that true to the origin of the song or tune. I also play bluegrass and old time and the people I play with will not accept the dang thing was not meant to be a waltz. They have got me doubting myself.
I take it to be Mediaeval and current in England (maybe not exclusively) in those times. Vaughan Williams composed a piece around this tune called something like,"Variants on 'Dives And Lazarus' " - so presumably it was the tune of a song called 'Dives And Lazarus'. In the Gospel parable, Dives was the rich man who went to hell because he had shown no concern for Lazarus, the beggar outside his gate.
Vaughan Williams's piece plays the plain tune in a stately 4/4, before doing all sorts with it.
In Ireland, it's the tune of the song The Star Of The County Down; I've also heard it called Bannbridge Town - I've a feeling the same song is indicated. My only trad recording of it is of box player Bobby Gardiner, who calls it Bannbridge Town and plays it, again, as a slow tune in 4/4.
I don't know whether the British or Protestant settlers introduced the tune to Ireland (County Down and Bannbridge are in Northern Ireland) or whether the tune got there before or independently of these.
Out here in Fresno, CA, we regularly play it as a waltz and it flows nicely at the Wawona barn dances in Yosemite. Also,I know a soprano who does a beautiful rendition singing it as a waltz. I've enjoyed playing it as a waltz or a reel. As a reel, it is definitely lively.
Ugh! I simply can't imagine it as a waltz. Mind you, I've only heard/played the versions that some of the locals do, and the one from Van Morrison. It would be interesting to hear the phrasing of the melody when it's done as a waltz. Can anyone point me to any examples?
Mix, the Arizona one is hilarious; I need to pass it along.
I don't believe that it was ever played as a waltz until the 1970s, when some well-known band (can't remember who) played it that way and the "world and his dog" copied them.
It's actually very easy to turn one tune type into another, and this can be done with any tune. Whether it's a good idea to do so is another matter. Its rarely an improvement, IMHO.
Notwithstanding that "the "Star of the County Down" has been done to death, it's still one of my favourite songs. It has a certain "poetry£ about it, and it even contains a lesson in Irish geography:
"From Bantry Bay, unto Derry Quay, and from Galway to Dublin town"
In other words, South, North, West and East.
.. so if I hear it played as a waltz tune, I just wince ...
... there are plenty of good waltzes available, so there is just no need to hijack a good song tune ...
Thanks all. It is hard to believe there are musicians anywhere who think it was never anything but a waltz but I know some. Their argument is that it is in someones "waltz book" HA. One of them even claims he plays and teaches ITM. It is done to death but it is a good song to share a little Irish with those who have none. Poor souls. The waltz is not bad just not how I want to play it.
There are some waltz examples on youtube but look at Jeff Wison's lessions at musicmoose.org for a good cover. while you are there look at the Bell Table Waltz. Not old or trad but nice.
J
what do you call it?
what do you call it?
I Have searched the archives but found no answer and I am most interested in the opinions and thoughts of the ladies and gentlemen who wander here.
"The Star of The County Down"
I know it is a much over done song with a snappy march beat but I grew up playing it as a tune (reel) and still do. The music dictionary calls it an Irish ballad. I have heard it played as a waltz but have never considered that true to the origin of the song or tune. I also play bluegrass and old time and the people I play with will not accept the dang thing was not meant to be a waltz. They have got me doubting myself.
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by mother
Re: what do you call it?
It's all there in the words of the song, jehanna!
Like a pattern, her dance, you were held in a trance,
As she tripped through a reel or a jig ....
... nothing about waltzes!
... or in other words -
No pipe I'd smoke, no horse I'd yoke
In the face of such musicians false;
That smilin' bride at me old fireside,
Can't even dance a waltz!
You're correct, and your mates are wrong ...
... sleep easy!
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: what do you call it?
... or you could try singing this version to 'em
http://www.azirishmusic.com/songs/66.htm
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: what do you call it?
I take it to be Mediaeval and current in England (maybe not exclusively) in those times. Vaughan Williams composed a piece around this tune called something like,"Variants on 'Dives And Lazarus' " - so presumably it was the tune of a song called 'Dives And Lazarus'. In the Gospel parable, Dives was the rich man who went to hell because he had shown no concern for Lazarus, the beggar outside his gate.
Vaughan Williams's piece plays the plain tune in a stately 4/4, before doing all sorts with it.
In Ireland, it's the tune of the song The Star Of The County Down; I've also heard it called Bannbridge Town - I've a feeling the same song is indicated. My only trad recording of it is of box player Bobby Gardiner, who calls it Bannbridge Town and plays it, again, as a slow tune in 4/4.
I don't know whether the British or Protestant settlers introduced the tune to Ireland (County Down and Bannbridge are in Northern Ireland) or whether the tune got there before or independently of these.
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by nicholas
Re: what do you call it?
Out here in Fresno, CA, we regularly play it as a waltz and it flows nicely at the Wawona barn dances in Yosemite. Also,I know a soprano who does a beautiful rendition singing it as a waltz. I've enjoyed playing it as a waltz or a reel. As a reel, it is definitely lively.
# Posted on November 29th 2008 by Leendah
Re: what do you call it?
Ugh! I simply can't imagine it as a waltz. Mind you, I've only heard/played the versions that some of the locals do, and the one from Van Morrison. It would be interesting to hear the phrasing of the melody when it's done as a waltz. Can anyone point me to any examples?
Mix, the Arizona one is hilarious; I need to pass it along.
# Posted on November 29th 2008 by tomw
Re: what do you call it?
I don't believe that it was ever played as a waltz until the 1970s, when some well-known band (can't remember who) played it that way and the "world and his dog" copied them.
It's actually very easy to turn one tune type into another, and this can be done with any tune. Whether it's a good idea to do so is another matter. Its rarely an improvement, IMHO.
Notwithstanding that "the "Star of the County Down" has been done to death, it's still one of my favourite songs. It has a certain "poetry£ about it, and it even contains a lesson in Irish geography:
"From Bantry Bay, unto Derry Quay, and from Galway to Dublin town"
In other words, South, North, West and East.
.. so if I hear it played as a waltz tune, I just wince ...
... there are plenty of good waltzes available, so there is just no need to hijack a good song tune ...
# Posted on November 29th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: what do you call it?
I'll add, when I've heard the song it's been in 4/4 but much more brisk than the examples I gave above.
# Posted on November 29th 2008 by nicholas
Re: what do you call it?
Thanks all. It is hard to believe there are musicians anywhere who think it was never anything but a waltz but I know some. Their argument is that it is in someones "waltz book" HA. One of them even claims he plays and teaches ITM. It is done to death but it is a good song to share a little Irish with those who have none. Poor souls. The waltz is not bad just not how I want to play it.
There are some waltz examples on youtube but look at Jeff Wison's lessions at musicmoose.org for a good cover. while you are there look at the Bell Table Waltz. Not old or trad but nice.
J
# Posted on November 29th 2008 by mother
Your Next Step, Jehanna
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# Posted on November 29th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian