This has been touched on before, I'm sure. However, I'll not let that stop me...
I was wondering how important it is(To you) that a tune has a known title. Of course, whenever I ask another player for the name of a tune they always claim not to know the names of them anyway but half the time this might just be "patter".
Obviously, it's important to many people to put a handle on a tune. That's probably why there are so many tunes with alternative titles or simply named after their composer or the person who was known for playing them... eg Llig's Jig and so on.
I'm sure people will have varying views on this and I'd imagine that those who are predominantly "ear players" will worry far less about titles while those who also read the dots may be the opposite. Also, you'll get the "stamp collectors" who'll obviously want to know the titles.
Personally, I like to know a tune's name and quite often when someone starts one up in a session I might have a moment or two of hesitation before I remember what it is. Then I can play it so much better...
Another difficulty I have is with tunes from places like Scandinavia, Brittany and so on which don't have titles at all but are listed by the type of tune, ie polska, reinlandeer, forkert vals and so on. So, it's very hard to differentiate between them all and while I might be able to learn and play them they are harder to recall apart from the few exceptions which I know "back to front".
In written publications (I know we're not supposed to learn from the dots and this is probably as good an argument as any for not doing so), they will often be numbered but it's not very handy or even cool to shout out "No 84 in the book" at a session.
I don't think it necessarily matters too much (although I do like to know names myself) at least for sessions but if someone is putting an album together then the names (along with any credits due) should be critical. It really p***es me off when I see an album where the musicians clearly could just not be bothered in sourcing the names and origins of tunes, incorrectly naming them or incorrectly attributing them. It is just simple laziness and could be doing some other musician out of some royalties!
Tunes with little or no handle;
- Anything by Paddy Fahey
- 'gan ainm'
- tunes where people lean over & whisper, "what's that?"
- tunes with more than 3 names
- 2 different tunes with exactly the same name & each uses the same rhythm (for example the jig "Miners of Wicklow")
Tunes with a name
- many of the standard session tunes
- tunes by composers who name their tunes (such as James Hill or Vincent Broderick)
- tunes in sets on CDs where the set is named but no credit is given for composer or tune name when this is information that is available)
I'd rather know how to play 1,000 great tunes with style and lift and heart and not know a single title than know the titles to 1,000 great tunes I can't play. That said, I try to remember tune titles and am pretty good at it but not through any extraordinary effort on my part. I don't scour the internet for titles of gan ainms; if the person from whom I'm learning a tune doesn't know its name I don't worry about it. It's more important to get the tune right.
I'm a name hog. I like to keep a list. It reminds me of old tunes that I haven't played in a while. Some perhaps I should have forgotten, more I definitely shouldn't, but either way, it's nice.
If I learned it with the name, it helps to have the name to trigger the tune. Was talking to an old-timer who plays harmonicas, new snow bird to the area, that’s a senior citizen from up North who winters in a Florida condo. He’s been coming regularly, knows a ton of tunes, great guy. Anyway, he was saying the same thing: “If I don’t know the name, I can’t start the tune!”
I have many I've never learned the name of, so I can't put them on my list. It doesn't really do any good to have ‘gan ainm’ listed 50 times with notes next to them: ‘Gan ainm, jig, D, Gail always plays it on her box when she comes to session…’
Then again, maybe it would. Then I wouldn’t have to wait for Gail and her box to play it, or remember that I know it. Hmm…
It's not so much in sessions that I need names of tunes, as when I'm looking at CDs in shops wondering whether to buy one. I get very peed off with the habit of giving multi-tune tracks a single curt name on the playlist on the cover - it may be snappy and stylish and all that, but it puts me off buying: I like to know what, precisely, is in the tin. So, anyone out there who does this - please be more forthcoming with your info, and your sales might go up, in particular to tune anoraks like me!
I find it impossible to learn any names. I'm sitting there and a tune starts and I think, "Oh! I know this" and happily play away. But unless I'm one of the boring "What's that tune called brigade" I'll never learn them!
Name are handy when talking about a particular one, but since I don't often talk about them, I don't need to know!
Well, it would be unlikely that I'd ever ask that more than once or twice in a whole night and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do so either.
Sometimes though, there's a tune I really like or feel that I should already know and I'll ask then. Of course, I'll not make a habit of it.
As someone mentioned in the other thread...see my link.. if I learned a tune without ever knowing the title, I don't need to know what it's called before I can play it! However, if I find myself struggling with an apparently familiar tune everything will magically fall into place when I remember the title. Strange!
As I say, I like Scandinavian music a lot but can never seem to recall these tunes quite so easily because most of them don't really have names.
Of course thespian Robert Blake, famous both for his star turn on TV's "Baretta" and for his wife-murder acquittal, trademarked the phrase, "And that's the name of that tune."
But trademarking hasn't stopped me from borrowing Mr. Blake's phrase. After I recite the actual, assumed, or believed name of every tune we have finished playing, I invariably deploy Mr. Blake words. People often tell me my habit is "delightful!"
"I'm sure people will have varying views on this and I'd imagine that those who are predominantly "ear players" will worry far less about titles while those who also read the dots may be the opposite. Also, you'll get the "stamp collectors" who'll obviously want to know the titles."
This is certainly not true. (Or if it is true, it is only true of a certain type of beginner.) Before this plague of dots, when the music was still much more regionally defined, tune names were more meaningful, refering to familiar places, people, etc. Names are less important to many people now because they don't have or make these connections.
Every single tune was composed by someone, who more often than not gave it a name for a reason. I think that should be respected, but that's only my opinion, and others may disagree. Doesn't mean that you have to know a tune's name to play it though, of course. I do get p*ssed off if I buy a CD with a lot of unknown-to-me titles only to find out that they are tunes which have been around for years. Fine if the player/s are doing something new with a familiar tune, but that doesn't happen very often.
Definitely helps me to have the name of a tune, especially when the setting is different and on a different instrument. Often I can play along without it, but if I have the name I lock in much better. Last week I sat out a tune that sounded familiar, but I didn’t know it. Afterward I asked for the name and was told “Donnybrook Fair”.
But the name can be anything, “the jig in A major” or “the Paddy Fahy that starts like the Ed Reavy tune” etc. If I know it is a name given by a composer, I try to respect that. I'd rather say "Rossmore Jetty" than Fr. Kelly's #1".
It's unlikely that I would be able to start a tune without thinking of the name. It's also unlikely that I would remember many names without keeping a list in my pocket.
As for joining in, I can certainly do that much more easily if the tune has been identified.
Agree with No Cause For Alarm and Kenny that anyone buying recorded music has a right to a reasonable amount of information to go with it.
Would cookbooks sell well if they only had chapters headed
"beef","pork","chicken", "fish","vegetable" with a string of nameless dishes to follow? The outcome may be the same, but where's the anticipation?
Of course they are not necessary, what a silly notion.
They can be fun though. And I like them when the evoke a particular time and place. I wrote one for a friend: "Peter McClements’ farewell to smoking in pubs".
Personally, I like names so I can find different recordings of the tune. Listening to a few different interpretations of a tune can be piquantly entertaining and downright enlightening.
"Of course they are not necessary, what a silly notion."
An expected reply but, perhaps, my question would have been better phrased as "How helpful is a tune title?" or "Is it helpful to know the title of a tune?"
It's better to know the titles than not to know them, They are useful for some of the same reasons that the names of people and things are useful. But they are not "necessary".
You could call any tune "The Butterfly." This: "...tune titles are actually descriptive of the music..." is pretty silly. How is the title "The Cook in the Kitchen" descriptive of anything?
If you think any title describes the music then you're dreaming. Except of course for "Drag Her Round the Road," which is really descriptive, don't you think? Or "Pull the Knife and Stick it Again"? Now you're talking. (not...)
John Skelton had it right when he said "If you know the names of all the tunes that you play then you don't know enough tunes."
I have heard it attributed to me, as well. And I am neither JS nor MH. Like many a tune, we'll probably never know its origin.
I can't believe people actually read this far down a silly thread.
Someone must think us trad types are very intellectually challenged. Firstly, unlike musicians in nearly every other genre, we're incapable of handling basic staff notation and now we can't even remember simple tune names. I think that this thinking does a dis-service to both the musicians (including composers) and the music itself. Classical musicians appreciate their music and always know their tune titles (I've yet to come across a Mozart Gan Ainm) and I firmly believe Irish music is just as good and deserves to be treated with the same respect. I also agree with all the other comments about tune listings on CDs and the like not to mention the difficulty in talking about the music. Equally along with a few more contributors here, I always find it easier to play the tune in a session situation once the title comes to mind. And finally music is a lot more than aural sounds or dots on a bit of paper - for example when we play Cooley's and the Wise Maid I always visualise the great Joe Cooley with all the exhuberance and joy in his playing or Vincent Broderick and his tall tales when playing Haunted House or Whistler at the Wake, etc. Anyhow I'll come down off my soapbox now!
If the thread is so silly, why did you go to the bother of replying?
As I say, the question could have been phrased better but I'm just interested to to know if "it helps" your memory of tune either in terms of executing it or ...even.... helping you to remember it exists in the first place.
I'm sure it does for a lot of people here as has been shown although there's obviously plenty of smug characters for whom it makes no difference.
I agree that it's less important for Scottish, Irish, and many other tunes. However, as I say, I find it more daunting when it comes to learning many tunes from elsewhere which are just named after a particular tune style or dance and nothing more. Of course, they might well have had names at one time. I don't know.
Tunes are like people, they have assorted personalities. So playing might be like gossipping. Names help in help in sorting out who's "getting it" and who's to "get it" next. Who's here and who's absent.
I know several wonderful players who don't know the names of most of the tunes they play. I, however, try to be a student of this music and it's history, therefore I like to know the tune names and the composers if I can - as well as any history that may go with it. Furthermore, as was mentioned above, some tune names match perfectly with the melody - (Rolling Wave, Out on the Ocean, etc.)
Is knowing the tune name important? Probably not at all in the grand scheme of things. But I like to know. It's interesting and adds to the fun for me.
"Furthermore, as was mentioned above, some tune names match perfectly with the melody - (Rolling Wave, Out on the Ocean, etc.)"
Ah, no, there still out there!
[Now, Baldrick, which do you prefer this turnip shaped like Tommy Peoples at the Battle of Bulmer's Ear or this bunch of conjoined carrots bearing a remarkable similarity to Leitrim's current artists-in-residence?]
That's ridiculous, you really think you could guess the name of Out on the Ocean if you from the tune alone? Is it out on the ocean in a force ten or a flat calm?
Somewhat more seriously, I think tune titles can be wonderful, especially for Irish tunes. Scottish tunes have boring, dour names like "Miss Mary MacFinnan of Glen Donan Castle" (I'm making this up, obviously, but you get the point), while Irish tunes have cool names like "The Mouse in the Mug" and "Sixpenny Money". Irish tune names are fun! I think it's a hoot to try to ask someone if they know "Paddy Fahey's" and then you spend the next fifteen minutes humming through the different ones---no, not that one, no, not that one either, etc. It's also kind of mind-blowing to know tunes like "Brian Boru's Lament" or "The Colerain" that can be traced back 400 years. Necessary? Maybe not. But cool beans? Absolutely!
For me, it's a little sad to think of all the horrible jokes that wouldn't get told if there weren't names. I don't think I'd have nearly as much joy in life if I couldn't tell people that the last jig was called 'My Darling's a Sheep" or "The Starving Monster". I love the confused faces of most Americans upon first hearing the phrase "Gander in the Pratie Hole". I shudder to think of life without announcing that "The Dunmore Lasses is Wilt Chamberlins' Reel", because ain't nobody done more lasses than Wilt. (1)
(1) I learned that last bad joke reading TheSession.org.
More importantly, why are all the recent "Posted on" dates saying November 26th? I haven't finished with November 25th yet. It's still only 11:11 PM in Ireland...
Anyway, I find folks around here enjoy and play the tune "an dtiocfaidh tu abhaile liom?" even though they can neither pronounce the title or understand it. Relevant?
Friend of mine named a tune 'The Dead Dog on the Lampshade' - nice tune but terrible name but it does remind me of the 'shape' of the tune.
Llig, you still watchin' catch up TV from the 60's?
"They can be fun though. And I like them when the evoke a particular time and place. I wrote one for a friend: "Peter McClements’ farewell to smoking in pubs". Llig (above)
.........can you send me the dots for that one, Michael?
That Frost is all over the Telly must have been written in the 60s. (no apostrophe by the way, it's not possessive, just 10 years, plural, 61, 62 etc. If you really want an apostrophe, stick it before: '60s
Llig - what are you on about? I never said anyone could guess a tune name by the way it sounds. Only that some melodies match the tune name well. The melody in Rolling Wave sounds like rolling waves to me that's all. Christ on a bike man, you don't have to make every response a beat down.
So, "some tune names match perfectly with the melody". But only after you know the name. Just think for a momant about how your brain is working there, the order of the nural connections.
When I hear the third part of "The Cook in the Kitchen", I always conjure up in my mind's eye a chef in a busy kitchen rushing between one pan and another, trying to ensure that everything is co-ordinated and ready for a particular dish.
Maybe the person who wrote the tune didn't think of it in that way, but I don't care about that. The lyrical analogy helps me to remember how the tune goes.
Of course, the composer might well think that a particular title is apt and suits the melody. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else will.
Quite often, the titles are quite meaningless or chosen for any number of reasons. It could be an "in joke" as in "Farewell to smoking" scenario and there's been many a tune named after musicians have been "barred" from Sandy Bells and many other establishments over the years.
If I hear a tune I like and I want to learn it before we meet again, it's very helpful to have a tune name to go search online with then hear a variety of settings of said tune name. That's a great benefit of tune names that for me makes learning new tunes much easier than it was just 5 years ago. (Youtube is great for hearing different settings of tunes, for example.)
On the other hand, when someone starts a tune that I don't recognize at first, and has not been introduced by name, then it can take a while for my aural note memory to kick in, before I say, aha, it's "so-and-so" and then be able to join in. But, this can be a benefit as well, since my ears are now given a chance to hear the tune as a "new tune" perhaps in a different setting/key and/or tempo that I haven't heard before.
I like to hear standards done in new ways, and by not knowing the name ahead of time, it gives me a chance to consider a new way to approach a given tune.
Tune names can also be detrimental when someone says,
Okay I'm gonna play "so-and-so" commonly known tune.
Then they start off with an unusual tempo or setting for the tune. Actually, I love when this part happens - this is when I get to hear a common tune in a new way, and this gives new life to that tune for me. Unfortunately, others may not be listening carefully, and they just say to themselves, Oh, I know "insert tune name" , I can play that. Then, sometimes, these players start in with the tune the way that they know it, possibly with a different setting or tempo from the person who started the tune. Then you have the tune starter struggling to continue their setting of a tune, with others just blissfully playing away at the tune the way they've always played it. I am annoyed when this happens, and it's possibly a result of the tune name being introduced before playing it.
I can accompany many tunes, and know the names of only a few of them, because I learned to accompany them by ear. But I usually use sheet music as part of the process of learning melodies, so I know pretty much all the names of tunes where I can play the melody. I like to learn names, and who got what tune from who, and where they came from, etc, etc, it is not necessary, but it is part of the fun.
I know what you mean about different settings, halfwaythere. I once learned a jig from a Scots tune book, and when I brought up the name in the session, everyone started in on the A part successfully. But when we got to the B part, I was floundering, as they were playing something different. And then they started the C part, that wasn't even part of the tune I had learned....... I'd tell you the name of that jig, but can't for the life of me remember, I just remember it was in G.
Out on the Ocean? What about Dingle Reggatta then? Not that it gets much played these days, but I seem to remember musicians "bobbing up and down" on the "waves" when playing the third part. "Old hat" of course - as many would consider this tune to be....
This is a case in point of how names are so important. Dingle Regatta without it associations would be a run of the mill slide. However, when you bring to mind the great Liverpool Céilí Band back in the sixties playing it with the irrepressible fiddler, Eamonn Coyne leading the musicians in the bouncing up and down, the tune becomes nothing less than magic!
Ok. Fine. Apparently I am the only synoptically challenged idiot whom, upon hearing a tune and then being told the name, immediately conjure up a mental vignette or story to link the two. I'd like to know just how drunk Sakow was when he went Tripping up the Stairs? Just how long did the debate rage before a consensus was reached that there were indeed only Nine Points of Roguery? Whatever. I accept my musical nerdom.
You're definitely not alone, Jusa. People often ask me how it that I can remember so many tunes without reference to written music. I use exactly the same method as yourself.
I doesn't seem to work for all tunes though - for me, Irish reels are the most difficult tune type to remember.
And here's another thing ...
If, at a session you ask someone the name of a tune that they just played, the reply can often be: "I don't know"
There are two reasons for this:
(a) They genuinely don't know.
(b) They do know, but won't tell you - presumably preferring to keep the kudos of it to themselves.
I always think that not bothering to find out the name of a tune belittles the music. I mean you don't get a classical violinst telling his or her audience that they learnt this tune from the playing of Paddy Kreisler and then go on to play Tchiskovsky's Violin Concerto. In its own way traditional music is just as good as classical or any other genre for that matter and should be respected as such...'Respect Man'...
I just remembered the names of the tunes that turned into a train wreck at the session in my story above. I had started Merrily Danced the Quaker's Wife, while the rest of the bunch went into Merrily Kissed the Quaker (or is it the other way around). You will find the two parter I learned in the tune archive posted by ceolachan, and the three parter posted by Jeremy (although he posted it as a slide, but around here, it is played as a jig).
How does that tune go?
Which tune?
You know - that tune.
No I dont - which tune?
The one you always play after that other one.
Which other one?
The one Fred likes.
Fred likes lots of tunes. Which one?
Fred, what's that tune you like?
Which one?
The one that goes before the one I don't know . . .
Well what the feck are you requesting it for you daft eedjit.
You played it last week and I remember I enjoyed it.
If you remember you enjoyed it, but can't even remember any of it, you can't have enjoyrd it that much.
And then there's the other one: Punter comes up and requests a tune you've just played. He/she remembers only the name, not the tune.
And the related one: Punter comes up and requests a tune, you're not familiar with the name, so you play any old tune. They say, "thanks very much, I love that tune."
Personally, I need tune names to file them away.
How did people like Sean Ryan cope with numbered tunes with no names? I read that most of his tunes were named postumously.
I like knowing names, especially if there is a bit of history to go with the name. In any case, the names often are awesome in and of themselves. What's not to like in a name like Drag her 'Round the Road? The session's comments section is great for finding out information about tunes. Like I just learned Ormond Sound yesterday and was happy to find it in this database and discover it is a Paddy O'Brien tune written for the Ormond Ceili Band. I may be geeky, but there you have it.
I also find it easier to remember the ones I have names for, although I sort of give it a designation if I don't have a name, like "the reel in D I learned from that recording of Phil and Johnny Cunningham." Trouble with that is if I want to hear other people's versions of it, I am fecked.
Then there are the ones I forget on cue. Usually the cue is something like a punter saying, "Do you know Scotland the Brave?" Nope, haven't a clue.
I think knowing the names is part of the fun. Do they really have to be related to the shape of the tune, or have any particular relevance to it? But it's great when they provide a mental image that you can associate with the tune... For example, "You Hold the Candle While I Shave the Chicken's Lips", or "The Pope's Toe". Or, perhaps less facetiously, "The Banshee's Wail..." or "The Cat's Rambles..." and so on.
I agree with what Kenny says above about giving due respect to the composer, but I've heard several people say that they've played their own tunes at competitions etc., but wouldn't admit it because they were supposed to be playing "Traditional Reel" or whatever. So those tunes get out in the world, and they find their own names, which is as it should be. (Ahh, but were the names already out there, waiting for the tune to come along?)
Except for that story about Frankie Gavin, who apparently went through a period when he would respond, "The Head of Cabbage" to any request for a tune name.
I have to say that I've gotten quite a bit of enjoyment out of "Drag Her Round the Road", a tune I don't know at all.
The important thing is the tunes be played.
The names, like the tunes themselves, do get changed & turned around. Fiction is added or removed.
No one can keep track of it all. I appreciate a bit of recognition for the composers. There are some good ones.
Here is a tune, widely played & recorded, though not too many people know it by this name;
"Derry Craig Wood"
Submitted on January 29th 2004 by Will CPT. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2449
Silver Spear, I like the idea of forgetting tune names on cue when someone is dumb enough or stupid enough to make the wrong request by asking for a tune you don't like to play or don't want to play.
I have been known to do this when someone (who is musically illiterate) asks me to play the theme music from the movie The Sting by Marvin Hamlisch when that tune was actually written by Scott Joplin approximately one hundred years ago and given the title of The Entertainer by Joplin's
publisher.
Speaking as someone who has written a few tunes for his own amusement and for composition courses in college, I always have difficulty trying to think of good titles for the things I write.
How necessary is a tune title?
How necessary is a tune title?
This has been touched on before, I'm sure. However, I'll not let that stop me...
but half the time this might just be "patter".
I was wondering how important it is(To you) that a tune has a known title. Of course, whenever I ask another player for the name of a tune they always claim not to know the names of them anyway
Obviously, it's important to many people to put a handle on a tune. That's probably why there are so many tunes with alternative titles or simply named after their composer or the person who was known for playing them... eg Llig's Jig and so on.
I'm sure people will have varying views on this and I'd imagine that those who are predominantly "ear players" will worry far less about titles while those who also read the dots may be the opposite. Also, you'll get the "stamp collectors" who'll obviously want to know the titles.
Personally, I like to know a tune's name and quite often when someone starts one up in a session I might have a moment or two of hesitation before I remember what it is. Then I can play it so much better...
See http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2459
Another difficulty I have is with tunes from places like Scandinavia, Brittany and so on which don't have titles at all but are listed by the type of tune, ie polska, reinlandeer, forkert vals and so on. So, it's very hard to differentiate between them all and while I might be able to learn and play them they are harder to recall apart from the few exceptions which I know "back to front".
In written publications (I know we're not supposed to learn from the dots and this is probably as good an argument as any for not doing so), they will often be numbered but it's not very handy or even cool to shout out "No 84 in the book" at a session.
Anyway, let's have your comments.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I don't think it necessarily matters too much (although I do like to know names myself) at least for sessions but if someone is putting an album together then the names (along with any credits due) should be critical. It really p***es me off when I see an album where the musicians clearly could just not be bothered in sourcing the names and origins of tunes, incorrectly naming them or incorrectly attributing them. It is just simple laziness and could be doing some other musician out of some royalties!
rant over
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Tunes with little or no handle;
- Anything by Paddy Fahey
- 'gan ainm'
- tunes where people lean over & whisper, "what's that?"
- tunes with more than 3 names
- 2 different tunes with exactly the same name & each uses the same rhythm (for example the jig "Miners of Wicklow")
Tunes with a name
- many of the standard session tunes
- tunes by composers who name their tunes (such as James Hill or Vincent Broderick)
- tunes in sets on CDs where the set is named but no credit is given for composer or tune name when this is information that is available)
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I'd rather know how to play 1,000 great tunes with style and lift and heart and not know a single title than know the titles to 1,000 great tunes I can't play. That said, I try to remember tune titles and am pretty good at it but not through any extraordinary effort on my part. I don't scour the internet for titles of gan ainms; if the person from whom I'm learning a tune doesn't know its name I don't worry about it. It's more important to get the tune right.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I'm a name hog. I like to keep a list. It reminds me of old tunes that I haven't played in a while. Some perhaps I should have forgotten, more I definitely shouldn't, but either way, it's nice.
If I learned it with the name, it helps to have the name to trigger the tune. Was talking to an old-timer who plays harmonicas, new snow bird to the area, that’s a senior citizen from up North who winters in a Florida condo. He’s been coming regularly, knows a ton of tunes, great guy. Anyway, he was saying the same thing: “If I don’t know the name, I can’t start the tune!”
I have many I've never learned the name of, so I can't put them on my list. It doesn't really do any good to have ‘gan ainm’ listed 50 times with notes next to them: ‘Gan ainm, jig, D, Gail always plays it on her box when she comes to session…’
Then again, maybe it would. Then I wouldn’t have to wait for Gail and her box to play it, or remember that I know it. Hmm…
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
It's not so much in sessions that I need names of tunes, as when I'm looking at CDs in shops wondering whether to buy one. I get very peed off with the habit of giving multi-tune tracks a single curt name on the playlist on the cover - it may be snappy and stylish and all that, but it puts me off buying: I like to know what, precisely, is in the tin. So, anyone out there who does this - please be more forthcoming with your info, and your sales might go up, in particular to tune anoraks like me!
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by nicholas
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I find it impossible to learn any names. I'm sitting there and a tune starts and I think, "Oh! I know this" and happily play away. But unless I'm one of the boring "What's that tune called brigade" I'll never learn them!
Name are handy when talking about a particular one, but since I don't often talk about them, I don't need to know!
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
" the boring "What's that tune called brigade" "
Well, it would be unlikely that I'd ever ask that more than once or twice in a whole night and I wouldn't encourage anyone else to do so either.
Sometimes though, there's a tune I really like or feel that I should already know and I'll ask then. Of course, I'll not make a habit of it.
As someone mentioned in the other thread...see my link.. if I learned a tune without ever knowing the title, I don't need to know what it's called before I can play it! However, if I find myself struggling with an apparently familiar tune everything will magically fall into place when I remember the title. Strange!
As I say, I like Scandinavian music a lot but can never seem to recall these tunes quite so easily because most of them don't really have names.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Of course thespian Robert Blake, famous both for his star turn on TV's "Baretta" and for his wife-murder acquittal, trademarked the phrase, "And that's the name of that tune."
But trademarking hasn't stopped me from borrowing Mr. Blake's phrase. After I recite the actual, assumed, or believed name of every tune we have finished playing, I invariably deploy Mr. Blake words. People often tell me my habit is "delightful!"
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
"I'm sure people will have varying views on this and I'd imagine that those who are predominantly "ear players" will worry far less about titles while those who also read the dots may be the opposite. Also, you'll get the "stamp collectors" who'll obviously want to know the titles."
This is certainly not true. (Or if it is true, it is only true of a certain type of beginner.) Before this plague of dots, when the music was still much more regionally defined, tune names were more meaningful, refering to familiar places, people, etc. Names are less important to many people now because they don't have or make these connections.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Chrishty
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
How dare you call me a beginner?
I'm an "advanced intermediate", I'll have ye know.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Every single tune was composed by someone, who more often than not gave it a name for a reason. I think that should be respected, but that's only my opinion, and others may disagree. Doesn't mean that you have to know a tune's name to play it though, of course. I do get p*ssed off if I buy a CD with a lot of unknown-to-me titles only to find out that they are tunes which have been around for years. Fine if the player/s are doing something new with a familiar tune, but that doesn't happen very often.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Kenny
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
So the answer is - "not at all" - but it can help others.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Kenny
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Definitely helps me to have the name of a tune, especially when the setting is different and on a different instrument. Often I can play along without it, but if I have the name I lock in much better. Last week I sat out a tune that sounded familiar, but I didn’t know it. Afterward I asked for the name and was told “Donnybrook Fair”.
But the name can be anything, “the jig in A major” or “the Paddy Fahy that starts like the Ed Reavy tune” etc. If I know it is a name given by a composer, I try to respect that. I'd rather say "Rossmore Jetty" than Fr. Kelly's #1".
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by fidkid
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
It's unlikely that I would be able to start a tune without thinking of the name. It's also unlikely that I would remember many names without keeping a list in my pocket.
As for joining in, I can certainly do that much more easily if the tune has been identified.
Agree with No Cause For Alarm and Kenny that anyone buying recorded music has a right to a reasonable amount of information to go with it.
Would cookbooks sell well if they only had chapters headed
"beef","pork","chicken", "fish","vegetable" with a string of nameless dishes to follow? The outcome may be the same, but where's the anticipation?
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by oldstrings
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Something that no-one's mentioned yet - some tune titles are actually descriptive of the music that goes with them:
Three examples spring immediately to my mind:
1) The Butterfly.
2) The Foxhunter's Jig.
3) The Cook in the Kitchen.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Mmm, I can understand 1 and 2 but I'm not sure what's cooking in the kitchen....
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Oh, no, Mix, please don't go there!
There's no hope for you and I, for one, am standing well clear of the explosion.
[Grabs helmet, jumps into bunker and finds himself chatting to Private Baldrick about the intriguing shapes of recently excavated root vegetables.]
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Of course they are not necessary, what a silly notion.
They can be fun though. And I like them when the evoke a particular time and place. I wrote one for a friend: "Peter McClements’ farewell to smoking in pubs".
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I thought Irish tunes all had names as it was the only way to tell them apart??
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by goldfrog
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Personally, I like names so I can find different recordings of the tune. Listening to a few different interpretations of a tune can be piquantly entertaining and downright enlightening.
--DtM
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Dan the Man
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
"Of course they are not necessary, what a silly notion."
An expected reply but, perhaps, my question would have been better phrased as "How helpful is a tune title?" or "Is it helpful to know the title of a tune?"
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
It's better to know the titles than not to know them, They are useful for some of the same reasons that the names of people and things are useful. But they are not "necessary".
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by timmy!
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
You could call any tune "The Butterfly." This: "...tune titles are actually descriptive of the music..." is pretty silly. How is the title "The Cook in the Kitchen" descriptive of anything?
If you think any title describes the music then you're dreaming. Except of course for "Drag Her Round the Road," which is really descriptive, don't you think? Or "Pull the Knife and Stick it Again"? Now you're talking. (not...)
John Skelton had it right when he said "If you know the names of all the tunes that you play then you don't know enough tunes."
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by David Levine
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I heard that attributed to Martin Hayes.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I have heard it attributed to me, as well. And I am neither JS nor MH. Like many a tune, we'll probably never know its origin.
I can't believe people actually read this far down a silly thread.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by David Levine
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Someone must think us trad types are very intellectually challenged. Firstly, unlike musicians in nearly every other genre, we're incapable of handling basic staff notation and now we can't even remember simple tune names. I think that this thinking does a dis-service to both the musicians (including composers) and the music itself. Classical musicians appreciate their music and always know their tune titles (I've yet to come across a Mozart Gan Ainm) and I firmly believe Irish music is just as good and deserves to be treated with the same respect. I also agree with all the other comments about tune listings on CDs and the like not to mention the difficulty in talking about the music. Equally along with a few more contributors here, I always find it easier to play the tune in a session situation once the title comes to mind. And finally music is a lot more than aural sounds or dots on a bit of paper - for example when we play Cooley's and the Wise Maid I always visualise the great Joe Cooley with all the exhuberance and joy in his playing or Vincent Broderick and his tall tales when playing Haunted House or Whistler at the Wake, etc. Anyhow I'll come down off my soapbox now!
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
If the thread is so silly, why did you go to the bother of replying?
As I say, the question could have been phrased better but I'm just interested to to know if "it helps" your memory of tune either in terms of executing it or ...even.... helping you to remember it exists in the first place.
I'm sure it does for a lot of people here as has been shown although there's obviously plenty of smug characters for whom it makes no difference.
I agree that it's less important for Scottish, Irish, and many other tunes. However, as I say, I find it more daunting when it comes to learning many tunes from elsewhere which are just named after a particular tune style or dance and nothing more. Of course, they might well have had names at one time. I don't know.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Sorry, Bannerman. That was for the benefit of the man before you.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Tunes are like people, they have assorted personalities. So playing might be like gossipping. Names help in help in sorting out who's "getting it" and who's to "get it" next. Who's here and who's absent.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Quinn Nemo
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I know several wonderful players who don't know the names of most of the tunes they play. I, however, try to be a student of this music and it's history, therefore I like to know the tune names and the composers if I can - as well as any history that may go with it. Furthermore, as was mentioned above, some tune names match perfectly with the melody - (Rolling Wave, Out on the Ocean, etc.)
Is knowing the tune name important? Probably not at all in the grand scheme of things. But I like to know. It's interesting and adds to the fun for me.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
"Furthermore, as was mentioned above, some tune names match perfectly with the melody - (Rolling Wave, Out on the Ocean, etc.)"
Ah, no, there still out there!
[Now, Baldrick, which do you prefer this turnip shaped like Tommy Peoples at the Battle of Bulmer's Ear or this bunch of conjoined carrots bearing a remarkable similarity to Leitrim's current artists-in-residence?]
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
[Baldrick, remind me about homonyms again.
"'there' should read 'they're', sir.".]
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
That's ridiculous, you really think you could guess the name of Out on the Ocean if you from the tune alone? Is it out on the ocean in a force ten or a flat calm?
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Ooh, how about "I Buried My Wife and Danced On Her Grave"? [cue grave-digging phrases, ominous minor chords]...
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by kennedy
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Somewhat more seriously, I think tune titles can be wonderful, especially for Irish tunes. Scottish tunes have boring, dour names like "Miss Mary MacFinnan of Glen Donan Castle" (I'm making this up, obviously, but you get the point), while Irish tunes have cool names like "The Mouse in the Mug" and "Sixpenny Money". Irish tune names are fun! I think it's a hoot to try to ask someone if they know "Paddy Fahey's" and then you spend the next fifteen minutes humming through the different ones---no, not that one, no, not that one either, etc. It's also kind of mind-blowing to know tunes like "Brian Boru's Lament" or "The Colerain" that can be traced back 400 years. Necessary? Maybe not. But cool beans? Absolutely!
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by kennedy
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
For me, it's a little sad to think of all the horrible jokes that wouldn't get told if there weren't names. I don't think I'd have nearly as much joy in life if I couldn't tell people that the last jig was called 'My Darling's a Sheep" or "The Starving Monster". I love the confused faces of most Americans upon first hearing the phrase "Gander in the Pratie Hole". I shudder to think of life without announcing that "The Dunmore Lasses is Wilt Chamberlins' Reel", because ain't nobody done more lasses than Wilt. (1)
(1) I learned that last bad joke reading TheSession.org.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
More importantly, why are all the recent "Posted on" dates saying November 26th? I haven't finished with November 25th yet. It's still only 11:11 PM in Ireland...
Anyway, I find folks around here enjoy and play the tune "an dtiocfaidh tu abhaile liom?" even though they can neither pronounce the title or understand it. Relevant?
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by grego
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
The Hair in the Margarine is a good one. And: That Frost is all over the Telly
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Friend of mine named a tune 'The Dead Dog on the Lampshade' - nice tune but terrible name but it does remind me of the 'shape' of the tune.
Llig, you still watchin' catch up TV from the 60's?
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by john knoss
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
"They can be fun though. And I like them when the evoke a particular time and place. I wrote one for a friend: "Peter McClements’ farewell to smoking in pubs". Llig (above)
.........can you send me the dots for that one, Michael?
tee hee
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by domhnall.
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
That Frost is all over the Telly must have been written in the 60s. (no apostrophe by the way, it's not possessive, just 10 years, plural, 61, 62 etc. If you really want an apostrophe, stick it before: '60s
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
"Cool beans."
Ahhhh, I hear jungle drums.....
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Llig - what are you on about? I never said anyone could guess a tune name by the way it sounds. Only that some melodies match the tune name well. The melody in Rolling Wave sounds like rolling waves to me that's all. Christ on a bike man, you don't have to make every response a beat down.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
SWFL - The bad Wilt Chamberlin joke was from me
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
If anyone ever asks me what a tune is called, I always say, "The Emperor's New Clothes".
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
So, "some tune names match perfectly with the melody". But only after you know the name. Just think for a momant about how your brain is working there, the order of the nural connections.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by ...
Cook in the Kitchen
When I hear the third part of "The Cook in the Kitchen", I always conjure up in my mind's eye a chef in a busy kitchen rushing between one pan and another, trying to ensure that everything is co-ordinated and ready for a particular dish.
Maybe the person who wrote the tune didn't think of it in that way, but I don't care about that. The lyrical analogy helps me to remember how the tune goes.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Of course, the composer might well think that a particular title is apt and suits the melody. However, it doesn't necessarily mean that anyone else will.
Quite often, the titles are quite meaningless or chosen for any number of reasons. It could be an "in joke" as in "Farewell to smoking" scenario and there's been many a tune named after musicians have been "barred" from Sandy Bells and many other establishments over the years.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
If I hear a tune I like and I want to learn it before we meet again, it's very helpful to have a tune name to go search online with then hear a variety of settings of said tune name. That's a great benefit of tune names that for me makes learning new tunes much easier than it was just 5 years ago. (Youtube is great for hearing different settings of tunes, for example.)
On the other hand, when someone starts a tune that I don't recognize at first, and has not been introduced by name, then it can take a while for my aural note memory to kick in, before I say, aha, it's "so-and-so" and then be able to join in. But, this can be a benefit as well, since my ears are now given a chance to hear the tune as a "new tune" perhaps in a different setting/key and/or tempo that I haven't heard before.
I like to hear standards done in new ways, and by not knowing the name ahead of time, it gives me a chance to consider a new way to approach a given tune.
Tune names can also be detrimental when someone says,
Okay I'm gonna play "so-and-so" commonly known tune.
Then they start off with an unusual tempo or setting for the tune. Actually, I love when this part happens - this is when I get to hear a common tune in a new way, and this gives new life to that tune for me. Unfortunately, others may not be listening carefully, and they just say to themselves, Oh, I know "insert tune name" , I can play that. Then, sometimes, these players start in with the tune the way that they know it, possibly with a different setting or tempo from the person who started the tune. Then you have the tune starter struggling to continue their setting of a tune, with others just blissfully playing away at the tune the way they've always played it. I am annoyed when this happens, and it's possibly a result of the tune name being introduced before playing it.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by halfwaythere
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I can accompany many tunes, and know the names of only a few of them, because I learned to accompany them by ear. But I usually use sheet music as part of the process of learning melodies, so I know pretty much all the names of tunes where I can play the melody. I like to learn names, and who got what tune from who, and where they came from, etc, etc, it is not necessary, but it is part of the fun.
I know what you mean about different settings, halfwaythere. I once learned a jig from a Scots tune book, and when I brought up the name in the session, everyone started in on the A part successfully. But when we got to the B part, I was floundering, as they were playing something different. And then they started the C part, that wasn't even part of the tune I had learned....... I'd tell you the name of that jig, but can't for the life of me remember, I just remember it was in G.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Out on the Ocean? What about Dingle Reggatta then? Not that it gets much played these days, but I seem to remember musicians "bobbing up and down" on the "waves" when playing the third part. "Old hat" of course - as many would consider this tune to be....
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
This is a case in point of how names are so important. Dingle Regatta without it associations would be a run of the mill slide. However, when you bring to mind the great Liverpool Céilí Band back in the sixties playing it with the irrepressible fiddler, Eamonn Coyne leading the musicians in the bouncing up and down, the tune becomes nothing less than magic!
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Ok. Fine. Apparently I am the only synoptically challenged idiot whom, upon hearing a tune and then being told the name, immediately conjure up a mental vignette or story to link the two. I'd like to know just how drunk Sakow was when he went Tripping up the Stairs? Just how long did the debate rage before a consensus was reached that there were indeed only Nine Points of Roguery? Whatever. I accept my musical nerdom.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Jusa Nutter, on behalf of bad joke lovers everywhere, I thank you for Wilt the Stilts' reel.
Also, thanks Bannerman, I always wondered who started that whole bobbing up and down thing on the Regatta.
"Waiter! There's a hair in my corn!"
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
You're definitely not alone, Jusa. People often ask me how it that I can remember so many tunes without reference to written music. I use exactly the same method as yourself.
I doesn't seem to work for all tunes though - for me, Irish reels are the most difficult tune type to remember.
And here's another thing ...
If, at a session you ask someone the name of a tune that they just played, the reply can often be: "I don't know"
There are two reasons for this:
(a) They genuinely don't know.
(b) They do know, but won't tell you - presumably preferring to keep the kudos of it to themselves.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
tune title?
(b) your presumption is not the reason Mix
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I always think that not bothering to find out the name of a tune belittles the music. I mean you don't get a classical violinst telling his or her audience that they learnt this tune from the playing of Paddy Kreisler and then go on to play Tchiskovsky's Violin Concerto. In its own way traditional music is just as good as classical or any other genre for that matter and should be respected as such...'Respect Man'...
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I meant of course Mr Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto, although the guy I mentioned wrote a few good tunes too.???
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Mea culpa; punctuation is still, at times, a mysterious art as far as I'm concerned. Quite right. Thanks.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by john knoss
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I just remembered the names of the tunes that turned into a train wreck at the session in my story above. I had started Merrily Danced the Quaker's Wife, while the rest of the bunch went into Merrily Kissed the Quaker (or is it the other way around). You will find the two parter I learned in the tune archive posted by ceolachan, and the three parter posted by Jeremy (although he posted it as a slide, but around here, it is played as a jig).
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
How does that tune go?
Which tune?
You know - that tune.
No I dont - which tune?
The one you always play after that other one.
Which other one?
The one Fred likes.
Fred likes lots of tunes. Which one?
Fred, what's that tune you like?
Which one?
The one that goes before the one I don't know . . .
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by c.g.
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
How does that tune go?
Which tune?
You know - that tune.
Sing us a bit of it then.
I can't, I can't remember how it goes.
Well what the feck are you requesting it for you daft eedjit.
You played it last week and I remember I enjoyed it.
If you remember you enjoyed it, but can't even remember any of it, you can't have enjoyrd it that much.
And then there's the other one: Punter comes up and requests a tune you've just played. He/she remembers only the name, not the tune.
And the related one: Punter comes up and requests a tune, you're not familiar with the name, so you play any old tune. They say, "thanks very much, I love that tune."
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
or the other one where the Daft Eedjit starts lumbering into a tune everyone just played 20 minutes ago....sheesh
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
ha, and I bet that Daft Eedjit's excuse is that he doesn't remember playing it, because he doesn't know its name.
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
And the related:
How does that tune go?
Which tune?
You know - that tune.
Sing us a bit of it then.
I can't, I can't remember how it goes. You played it last week after The Earl's Chair, it was a great changew into it.
Oh aye, I know the one you're on about now. We played it about 20 mins ago.
What's it called so I can remember it?
Feck off.
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by ...
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Funny. Then of course, the antithesis of this whole thing- "I remember the name, I just can't remember how it goes"
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Personally, I need tune names to file them away.
How did people like Sean Ryan cope with numbered tunes with no names? I read that most of his tunes were named postumously.
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I like knowing names, especially if there is a bit of history to go with the name. In any case, the names often are awesome in and of themselves. What's not to like in a name like Drag her 'Round the Road? The session's comments section is great for finding out information about tunes. Like I just learned Ormond Sound yesterday and was happy to find it in this database and discover it is a Paddy O'Brien tune written for the Ormond Ceili Band. I may be geeky, but there you have it.
I also find it easier to remember the ones I have names for, although I sort of give it a designation if I don't have a name, like "the reel in D I learned from that recording of Phil and Johnny Cunningham." Trouble with that is if I want to hear other people's versions of it, I am fecked.
Then there are the ones I forget on cue. Usually the cue is something like a punter saying, "Do you know Scotland the Brave?" Nope, haven't a clue.
# Posted on November 27th 2008 by DrSilverSpear
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
I think knowing the names is part of the fun. Do they really have to be related to the shape of the tune, or have any particular relevance to it? But it's great when they provide a mental image that you can associate with the tune... For example, "You Hold the Candle While I Shave the Chicken's Lips", or "The Pope's Toe". Or, perhaps less facetiously, "The Banshee's Wail..." or "The Cat's Rambles..." and so on.
I agree with what Kenny says above about giving due respect to the composer, but I've heard several people say that they've played their own tunes at competitions etc., but wouldn't admit it because they were supposed to be playing "Traditional Reel" or whatever. So those tunes get out in the world, and they find their own names, which is as it should be. (Ahh, but were the names already out there, waiting for the tune to come along?)
Except for that story about Frankie Gavin, who apparently went through a period when he would respond, "The Head of Cabbage" to any request for a tune name.
I have to say that I've gotten quite a bit of enjoyment out of "Drag Her Round the Road", a tune I don't know at all.
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by Gzeg
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
The important thing is the tunes be played.
The names, like the tunes themselves, do get changed & turned around. Fiction is added or removed.
No one can keep track of it all. I appreciate a bit of recognition for the composers. There are some good ones.
Here is a tune, widely played & recorded, though not too many people know it by this name;
"Derry Craig Wood"
Submitted on January 29th 2004 by Will CPT.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2449
The title appears on at least 1 recording;
Lead The Knave by Arty McGlynn And Nollaig Casey
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/593
"Derry Craig Wood" was written by Father Kelly;
Sad news of the death of Fr PJ Kelly ,composer of some of the great tunes
Martin Donohoe
# Posted on January 15th 2006 by Martin Donohoe
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
* Father Kelly
Here is the link I left out above ^
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8908
# Posted on November 28th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: How necessary is a tune title?
Silver Spear, I like the idea of forgetting tune names on cue when someone is dumb enough or stupid enough to make the wrong request by asking for a tune you don't like to play or don't want to play.
I have been known to do this when someone (who is musically illiterate) asks me to play the theme music from the movie The Sting by Marvin Hamlisch when that tune was actually written by Scott Joplin approximately one hundred years ago and given the title of The Entertainer by Joplin's
publisher.
Speaking as someone who has written a few tunes for his own amusement and for composition courses in college, I always have difficulty trying to think of good titles for the things I write.
# Posted on December 2nd 2008 by fauxcelt