Any suggestions ?
I have to replace the skin on my old 5-string, which I have been refurbishing for the SO to learn on, and have obtained a goatskin head, as the old one ( it's been on since at least 1965 ! ) has started to split below the tone ring.
What should/could/ought I to treat the skin with, for maximum tone and life ?
It's very nice to have a beginner slowly plunking on the old banjo around the house, sounds a bit like the background soundtrack to one of those old movies about life on the old plantation ( or Deliverance ) ( NO, NOT DELIVERANCE ! ).
Anyway, any tips or suggestions ?
Google "John Hermann old-time banjo"- the old-time gang are the ones to ask in this case. Does anyone use skin heads on tenor banjos anymore? I have a friend who plays an old Bacon with a clear plastic head...the old-timey guys are all about the goat skin heads on their vintage and primitive-style banjos, ask them. John Hermann is a good place to start
cheers, pipewatcher
Geurnsey. Many old-time banjo heads are made from calfskin (vellum) rather than goatskin. However, if yours is goatskin you could do what many bodhran players do, and give the skin a treatment with neatsfoot oil from time to time. Keep in mind that you need to wait a day or two before playing after applying the treatment to allow for the stuff to soak in.
Neatsfoot oil is obtainable from most saddlery supplers (its used to treat saddles!) so its more easily obtainable in country districts. Neatsfoot oil is probably OK for vellum, as well as goatskin.
You can also use lanolin, but neatsfoot oil is the superior product (IMHO).
As pipewatcher says, very few banjo players use skin heads nowadays - the main reason being the nead for constant retuning of strings as the atmosphere changes. Natural skins do deliver a superior tone, though. And if you have a vintage banjo with tone ring of an unusual non-standard size, a replacement with a real skin is sometimes the only answer.
Thanks Ramiro, I should have asked for a head first, eh,? Bought one already, dammit.
As it's an old banjo, already with a skin head, I thought keep it the same. Also, couldn't make sense of the listings for Remo heads, kept thinking I wasn't sure they'd fit on my old 5-string, whereas I know it's a skin head on at the moment. And superior tone is what I'm after.
>> Does anyone use skin heads on tenor banjos anymore?
I have had skin heads on several of my tenors. My '30's Paramount had the original skin on it, and it sounded great. (Sold that one to a Ragtime player in Italy, of all places). I had a skin on my Orpheum for a while, and it was a sweet tone. And I put a vellum head on my Ome for a while, just to see, but to get the sound I wanted, I needed it too tight, and it developed a tear (And I like the Renaissance better).
Tan me hide when I'm dead, Fred,
tan me hide when I'm dead.
So we tanned his hide when he died Clyde,
(Spoken) And that's it hanging on the shed.
Altogether now!
Hey, mcknowall, I thought sealing was banned for a long time now. Ah, so that's what happnd to 'em eh.
Why then do some other respected bodhran makers suggest treating the skin occasionally to prevent it drying out and cracking? Belgarth (for example) suggests using either neatsfoot oil, dubbin, almond oil or lanolin.
I did know a mate who dubbined his boots till the stitches rotted.
No stitches on a banjo, though.
Also knew another guy who carried a small bottle of neat's foot oil all over the world with him, used to loosen up old concertina bellows with it before he bought the instruments off unsuspecting owners for low prices.
Dubbin equals soft
banjo equals must stay in tune,soften the bodhran by all means but the banjo head must remain nice and tight all the time therefore sealing the skin to prevent the ingress of atmospheric moisture is paramount. Anything else grasshoppers?
Year ago, before you could ask about this sort of thing on the internet, I bought clapped out banjolin for next to nothing (which was more than it was worth) in junk shop. Local music shop got me a piece of vellum. Found a book in the library that told me how to fit it (wet if I rememebr correctly).
At the time I was bodhran bashing and so I noticed that unlike the drum *no treatment* with oils or anything was suggested.
I am not an expert, but would have thought that mcknowall is an expert yet he appears to be a lone voice in saying not to use anything that would soften and probably wreck it.
I second that, real skin banjo heads need nothing on them, they are mounted wet, and once dried and tensioned they need no treatment at all, any type of lubricant , water or oil based is the worst thing you can put on a banjo head.
Remo do banjo heads in gradations of 1/16". You should be able to get one to fit unless the pot's greatly over or undersized.
Goat skins aren't too good for banjos but are about half the price of vellum (around £UK40).
Fitting either is a fairly skilled job and the trick is to judge the height at which you set the tension hoop before allowing the vellumt to dry - too high and you'll tear the vellum after it's dried and you bring it up to tension, too low and the hoop ends up below the tone ring before it's up to tension.
The sound of a vellum is a bit better than plastic but the degree of improvement observed will depend on other factors including the quality of the banjo and its setup.
I'm trying to equate what you say, bc, with what I can see on my banjo, but as I haven't taken it apart yet to fit the new skin I'm unable to comment. This will be a learning experience for me when I do it.
if you decide it's worth fitting a vellum, read up well in advance on how to fit it - I suspect that Banjohangout.org will be awash with good advice that you can print out and keep to hand during your first attempt.
Fitting a vellum isn't particularly hard to do, but you need to understand exactly how you're going to thread the vellum between the flesh ring and the tension hoop, otherwise you'll spend an intersting hour or two wrestling with a soggy lump of organic material and two hoops of unyielding metal, interspersed with periods of intensive head scratching.
but do bear in mind my advice about tension hoop position - I've never seen it mentioned in the stuff I read. Calf skin is nowhere near as tough as mylar so you can't just keep on winding the tension hoop down till the nuts squeak.
The delivery time for vellums is usually long enough to give you time to check out every possible bit of information.
Good luck
and remember that as long as the vellum's wet, you can probably undo what you've done and start again if you meed to. Just don't trim off the excess vellum until you're sure it's right.
ha ha, that's the funniest bit of spam I've seen in ages. Must be some kind of viral thing that searches for "skin". Wouldn't it be great to take your banjo to a professional ski care therapist?
Treatment for a new banjo skin
Treatment for a new banjo skin
Any suggestions ?
I have to replace the skin on my old 5-string, which I have been refurbishing for the SO to learn on, and have obtained a goatskin head, as the old one ( it's been on since at least 1965 ! ) has started to split below the tone ring.
What should/could/ought I to treat the skin with, for maximum tone and life ?
It's very nice to have a beginner slowly plunking on the old banjo around the house, sounds a bit like the background soundtrack to one of those old movies about life on the old plantation ( or Deliverance ) ( NO, NOT DELIVERANCE ! ).
Anyway, any tips or suggestions ?
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Google "John Hermann old-time banjo"- the old-time gang are the ones to ask in this case. Does anyone use skin heads on tenor banjos anymore? I have a friend who plays an old Bacon with a clear plastic head...the old-timey guys are all about the goat skin heads on their vintage and primitive-style banjos, ask them. John Hermann is a good place to start
cheers, pipewatcher
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
If your banjo head is 11'' I can send you a skin that I don't use. A little dirty, but in good shape.
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Geurnsey. Many old-time banjo heads are made from calfskin (vellum) rather than goatskin. However, if yours is goatskin you could do what many bodhran players do, and give the skin a treatment with neatsfoot oil from time to time. Keep in mind that you need to wait a day or two before playing after applying the treatment to allow for the stuff to soak in.
Neatsfoot oil is obtainable from most saddlery supplers (its used to treat saddles!) so its more easily obtainable in country districts. Neatsfoot oil is probably OK for vellum, as well as goatskin.
You can also use lanolin, but neatsfoot oil is the superior product (IMHO).
As pipewatcher says, very few banjo players use skin heads nowadays - the main reason being the nead for constant retuning of strings as the atmosphere changes. Natural skins do deliver a superior tone, though. And if you have a vintage banjo with tone ring of an unusual non-standard size, a replacement with a real skin is sometimes the only answer.
Good luck!
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Thanks Ramiro, I should have asked for a head first, eh,? Bought one already, dammit.
As it's an old banjo, already with a skin head, I thought keep it the same. Also, couldn't make sense of the listings for Remo heads, kept thinking I wasn't sure they'd fit on my old 5-string, whereas I know it's a skin head on at the moment. And superior tone is what I'm after.
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
>> Does anyone use skin heads on tenor banjos anymore?
I have had skin heads on several of my tenors. My '30's Paramount had the original skin on it, and it sounded great. (Sold that one to a Ragtime player in Italy, of all places). I had a skin on my Orpheum for a while, and it was a sweet tone. And I put a vellum head on my Ome for a while, just to see, but to get the sound I wanted, I needed it too tight, and it developed a tear (And I like the Renaissance better).
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
DON'T put oil or lanolin on it.
A sealer of some sort helps for wet weather playing
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by mcknowall
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Tan me hide when I'm dead, Fred,
tan me hide when I'm dead.
So we tanned his hide when he died Clyde,
(Spoken) And that's it hanging on the shed.
Altogether now!
Hey, mcknowall, I thought sealing was banned for a long time now. Ah, so that's what happnd to 'em eh.
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by duij
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
"DONT put oil or lanolin on it"
Why then do some other respected bodhran makers suggest treating the skin occasionally to prevent it drying out and cracking? Belgarth (for example) suggests using either neatsfoot oil, dubbin, almond oil or lanolin.
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Some people might suggest hydrochloric acid too.
Mcknowall won't though, I wouldn't think.
(I reckon he's having a lend of us, mate.)
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by duij
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Flickin' tippers! Gotta be a beat-up eh?
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by duij
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
I did know a mate who dubbined his boots till the stitches rotted.
No stitches on a banjo, though.
Also knew another guy who carried a small bottle of neat's foot oil all over the world with him, used to loosen up old concertina bellows with it before he bought the instruments off unsuspecting owners for low prices.
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Dubbin equals soft
banjo equals must stay in tune,soften the bodhran by all means but the banjo head must remain nice and tight all the time therefore sealing the skin to prevent the ingress of atmospheric moisture is paramount. Anything else grasshoppers?
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by mcknowall
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Year ago, before you could ask about this sort of thing on the internet, I bought clapped out banjolin for next to nothing (which was more than it was worth) in junk shop. Local music shop got me a piece of vellum. Found a book in the library that told me how to fit it (wet if I rememebr correctly).
At the time I was bodhran bashing and so I noticed that unlike the drum *no treatment* with oils or anything was suggested.
I am not an expert, but would have thought that mcknowall is an expert yet he appears to be a lone voice in saying not to use anything that would soften and probably wreck it.
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by david_h
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Years ago..
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by david_h
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
I second that, real skin banjo heads need nothing on them, they are mounted wet, and once dried and tensioned they need no treatment at all, any type of lubricant , water or oil based is the worst thing you can put on a banjo head.
Dave H
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by Dave Hanson
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Remo do banjo heads in gradations of 1/16". You should be able to get one to fit unless the pot's greatly over or undersized.
Goat skins aren't too good for banjos but are about half the price of vellum (around £UK40).
Fitting either is a fairly skilled job and the trick is to judge the height at which you set the tension hoop before allowing the vellumt to dry - too high and you'll tear the vellum after it's dried and you bring it up to tension, too low and the hoop ends up below the tone ring before it's up to tension.
The sound of a vellum is a bit better than plastic but the degree of improvement observed will depend on other factors including the quality of the banjo and its setup.
Neither goatskin nor vellum require treatment.
# Posted on November 24th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
I'm trying to equate what you say, bc, with what I can see on my banjo, but as I haven't taken it apart yet to fit the new skin I'm unable to comment. This will be a learning experience for me when I do it.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
if you decide it's worth fitting a vellum, read up well in advance on how to fit it - I suspect that Banjohangout.org will be awash with good advice that you can print out and keep to hand during your first attempt.
Fitting a vellum isn't particularly hard to do, but you need to understand exactly how you're going to thread the vellum between the flesh ring and the tension hoop, otherwise you'll spend an intersting hour or two wrestling with a soggy lump of organic material and two hoops of unyielding metal, interspersed with periods of intensive head scratching.
but do bear in mind my advice about tension hoop position - I've never seen it mentioned in the stuff I read. Calf skin is nowhere near as tough as mylar so you can't just keep on winding the tension hoop down till the nuts squeak.
The delivery time for vellums is usually long enough to give you time to check out every possible bit of information.
Good luck
and remember that as long as the vellum's wet, you can probably undo what you've done and start again if you meed to. Just don't trim off the excess vellum until you're sure it's right.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
.. to which I would add: don't trim it until it's thoroughly dried out.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
Frank Ford at FRETS.com has good instructions for fitting a vellum.
Dave H
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Dave Hanson
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
As always there is a mine of sensible information to a sensible question - thanks folks.
# Posted on November 25th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Treatment for a new banjo skin
ha ha, that's the funniest bit of spam I've seen in ages. Must be some kind of viral thing that searches for "skin". Wouldn't it be great to take your banjo to a professional ski care therapist?
# Posted on November 24th 2009 by llig leahcim