From the earliest years there has been Irish involvement in transcribing tunes, airs, and songs to manuscript in order to preserve them. The best of these were written and published in the 19th and early 20th centuries and comprise many of the popular and not so popular tunes that we play today. There have also been some great Irish tune and music related books published in the last 30 years.
Anyway, I recently spotted a Lunasa tune book in a car boot sale and I had a little flick through the thing to see what it was all about. It was the saddest little book, a mere ploy I'd imagine to lure in the naive hippy that just bought their first bamboo flute. Donagh Hennessy should not be applauded for this book. It is an under achievement and a humiliation.
Of course, it's a commercial ploy but good luck to them I say...
I actually have a copy of this book(I believe they've a new one now) and it was quite good fun for a limited time.
Of course, it is of limited use and value. After all, many of the settings, keys etc are different from what you'd expect to hear in an average session or even another recording.
Regardless of the "dot versus ear" argument, I believe that "the tune" or "song"(if you like these) is ultimately more important than the perfromer(s) or perfomance. So, I do agree that such publications bring the risk of creating lots of "Lunasa clones".
Having said that, although this does happens and there's also lots of similar things happening in some Scottish sessions... it's only a small part of the picture and I think traditional music is strong enough to survive such things.
I've seen this book and it does exactly what it sets out to, namely provide transcriptions of the versions of tunes played on the albums, and if people think they can play the tunes like the boys from reading the dots, then I think that is an ignorance ripe for reward. I don't think it has any pretensions beyond those wrapped up in the whole rock-band-cool marketing package that defines the band. The idea behind the band is to make money by attracting a young audience whose musical tastes are more rock-based than traditional. If you asked any of the Lunasa lads, I think they'd tell you that it's just a job. And fair play to them.
Are they still together by the way?
I doubt it. Ok, it's not just a job, or they'd be working in offices, and it's great fun, I'm sure, but if you listen to their solo efforts you'll find their true love of the music expressed much more. Check out Crawford's album 'In Good Company', for example. Very, very different sort of stuff to the 'oul bang, bang, bang on the feckin' guitar'. (And that is a direct quote, before anyone lays into me.)
I think Lunasa have introduced a large number of people to Irish music, in the same way that the Bothies did in the 70s. I think the jump from an appreciation of rock-based music to an appreciation of Lunasa's style of Irish music is smaller than that to, say, Bobby Casey's. Lots of people have found their way into Irish music through groups like this, and from there many of them have discovered the more traditional styles of playing, and the sparser, more traditional combinations of instruments (for listening, not dancing, that is). I have a lot of respect for the musicians in Lunasa, even if I don't particularly enjoy the sound of the band itself.
Robert Ryan - you've made a perfectly reasonable argument there - and that was your first mistake when attempting to defend Lunasa on this forum. The truth is, you'll never be able to convince a folkie that Dylan going electrric was a good thing, or a metal head that Metallica's didn't sell out with Enter Sandman, or a Jazz freak that Kenny G is real music. The same goes here with Lunasa. The camps are well divided. Personally, I like 'em just fine. Furthermore, if they can sell a book of tunes, regardless of how re-hashed they may be - more power to them. Viva capitalism!
Yeah, I can see that. But no matter how much people might hate Lunasa, and say that they've ruined Irish music with their thumpy-thump basslines, and nasty old jazz chords, they are cracking traditional musicians, as well as top-earning rock/folk/trad/whatever performers. It is possible to diverge in Irish music without 'selling-out'. Nobody in their right mind would claim that Frankie Gavin isn't one of the greatest traditional fiddlers alive, but he's turned out some awful dross in his day (Shamrocks and Holly!?). Doesn't mean he's any less a fiddler player, right? Oh sure, maybe it makes him less of a human being, but that doesn't really affect his playing. Lunasa aren't going to kill Irish music with their electric bass-driven dance music, any more than the Bothies killed it with a harpsichord...
This debate has raged across this forum since day one. (It's one of my personal favorites!) Is it art when it is exclusively driven and created by the purest of motives within the artist? Or is it art when it sells? The pure drop trad (a shifting definition by nature) vs. the more open minded ear. As far as my "naive hippy" ear can tell, Lunasa's take on Maids of Mt Cisco, or Colonel Frazier or Sliabh Russell or Cathal McConnell's is quite nice and falls well within the boundaries of Irish Trad Music.
The Lunasa tune book is a good thing, in the big picture--that is, unless you think that Irish music should not be shared and enjoyed by more people.
A few of those naive hippies will graduate from the bamboo flute to something better. Even the ones who don't keep trying to play Irish music will know a bit more about it than they did before they tried.
More friends for Irish music equals more acceptance by the general public, more opportunities to hear quality music (because good players--like the members of Lunasa--can afford to do tours), and more Irish sessions everywhere. Sure, some of them will be crap sessions, but at least Irish music will be played in more places. In places where Irish music is not well known, you have to start somewhere.
always annoy me a little these threads. without Lunasa a good % of people wouldn't have found ITM and that doesn't include only "hippies". Please spare us ITM snobbery on Sunday mornings at least
I love Lunasa- one of my favorite bands- top five! And would love to get my hands on any tune book they happened to put out. I don't know any of them personally but can't imagine they don't enjoy what they do- I know I sure do....
What surprises me about Lunasa is that they are such terrific imaginative tune players, And yet their arrangements are so predictable and unimaginative.
With regards to the book itself, I fear it's a little more damaging to the music than merely being pointless. We've all some across people who play Lunasa sets they've obviously learned from a book, Yes, it's a little bit damaging to the music, but not really that much in the grand scheme of it.
On the whole, fair play them. They are great trad players, (not merely good mind, but really really good). I'm a little sad when people put them on a pedestal of being the best band, but it doesn't really matter. It annoys me when they are referred to as being innovative, but that doesn't really matter either.
lunasa are in no way 'innovative'. they are very professional and tight but there's not much creativity about the arrangements. there's no such thing as the best band either, just what you prefer.
thanks for the link Random Notes- too pricey for me right now, but if that should change I know where to find it- or if a used copy surfaces somewhere..... the US dollar isn't doing too well in terms of purchasing power over there at present.
The thing is, I don't understand what the issue is with the arrangements- seems to me that arrangements on paper are just the basic layout of the notes so to speak- and after that it's what the musician does with it that makes it their own and different from anyone else who plays the same tune. So I don't expect to read a piece of sheet music and play it note for note and have it sound like Lunasa or whomever-it's just bare-bones structure of the piece when it's on paper I think- but what do I know......
Maybe Lunasa aren't aspiring to stay within in the boundaries of ITM? They are a very successful group who must be doing something right in order to have such a big fan base.
Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Lunasa's sad little tune book!
From the earliest years there has been Irish involvement in transcribing tunes, airs, and songs to manuscript in order to preserve them. The best of these were written and published in the 19th and early 20th centuries and comprise many of the popular and not so popular tunes that we play today. There have also been some great Irish tune and music related books published in the last 30 years.
Anyway, I recently spotted a Lunasa tune book in a car boot sale and I had a little flick through the thing to see what it was all about. It was the saddest little book, a mere ploy I'd imagine to lure in the naive hippy that just bought their first bamboo flute. Donagh Hennessy should not be applauded for this book. It is an under achievement and a humiliation.
They should also get Michael McGoldwick back.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by The Sailor on the Rock
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Of course, it's a commercial ploy but good luck to them I say...
I actually have a copy of this book(I believe they've a new one now) and it was quite good fun for a limited time.
Of course, it is of limited use and value. After all, many of the settings, keys etc are different from what you'd expect to hear in an average session or even another recording.
Regardless of the "dot versus ear" argument, I believe that "the tune" or "song"(if you like these) is ultimately more important than the perfromer(s) or perfomance. So, I do agree that such publications bring the risk of creating lots of "Lunasa clones".
Having said that, although this does happens and there's also lots of similar things happening in some Scottish sessions... it's only a small part of the picture and I think traditional music is strong enough to survive such things.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Johnny Jay
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I've seen this book and it does exactly what it sets out to, namely provide transcriptions of the versions of tunes played on the albums, and if people think they can play the tunes like the boys from reading the dots, then I think that is an ignorance ripe for reward. I don't think it has any pretensions beyond those wrapped up in the whole rock-band-cool marketing package that defines the band. The idea behind the band is to make money by attracting a young audience whose musical tastes are more rock-based than traditional. If you asked any of the Lunasa lads, I think they'd tell you that it's just a job. And fair play to them.
Are they still together by the way?
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I think they would be quite insulted if you asked if they were just doing it to make money, and if it was " just a job".
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by _Jack_
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I doubt it. Ok, it's not just a job, or they'd be working in offices, and it's great fun, I'm sure, but if you listen to their solo efforts you'll find their true love of the music expressed much more. Check out Crawford's album 'In Good Company', for example. Very, very different sort of stuff to the 'oul bang, bang, bang on the feckin' guitar'. (And that is a direct quote, before anyone lays into me.)
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
"The idea behind the band is to make money by attracting a young audience whose musical tastes are more rock-based than traditional."
So can we assume that Lunasa's young fan base is made up predominantly of rock fans? If only.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I think Lunasa have introduced a large number of people to Irish music, in the same way that the Bothies did in the 70s. I think the jump from an appreciation of rock-based music to an appreciation of Lunasa's style of Irish music is smaller than that to, say, Bobby Casey's. Lots of people have found their way into Irish music through groups like this, and from there many of them have discovered the more traditional styles of playing, and the sparser, more traditional combinations of instruments (for listening, not dancing, that is). I have a lot of respect for the musicians in Lunasa, even if I don't particularly enjoy the sound of the band itself.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Robert Ryan - you've made a perfectly reasonable argument there - and that was your first mistake when attempting to defend Lunasa on this forum. The truth is, you'll never be able to convince a folkie that Dylan going electrric was a good thing, or a metal head that Metallica's didn't sell out with Enter Sandman, or a Jazz freak that Kenny G is real music. The same goes here with Lunasa. The camps are well divided. Personally, I like 'em just fine. Furthermore, if they can sell a book of tunes, regardless of how re-hashed they may be - more power to them. Viva capitalism!
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Yeah, I can see that. But no matter how much people might hate Lunasa, and say that they've ruined Irish music with their thumpy-thump basslines, and nasty old jazz chords, they are cracking traditional musicians, as well as top-earning rock/folk/trad/whatever performers. It is possible to diverge in Irish music without 'selling-out'. Nobody in their right mind would claim that Frankie Gavin isn't one of the greatest traditional fiddlers alive, but he's turned out some awful dross in his day (Shamrocks and Holly!?). Doesn't mean he's any less a fiddler player, right? Oh sure, maybe it makes him less of a human being, but that doesn't really affect his playing. Lunasa aren't going to kill Irish music with their electric bass-driven dance music, any more than the Bothies killed it with a harpsichord...
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
"a mere ploy I'd imagine to lure in the naive hippy that just bought their first bamboo flute. "
I thought that was what Lunasa was all about from the beginning...
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by McCracken
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
This debate has raged across this forum since day one. (It's one of my personal favorites!) Is it art when it is exclusively driven and created by the purest of motives within the artist? Or is it art when it sells? The pure drop trad (a shifting definition by nature) vs. the more open minded ear. As far as my "naive hippy" ear can tell, Lunasa's take on Maids of Mt Cisco, or Colonel Frazier or Sliabh Russell or Cathal McConnell's is quite nice and falls well within the boundaries of Irish Trad Music.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
The Lunasa tune book is a good thing, in the big picture--that is, unless you think that Irish music should not be shared and enjoyed by more people.
A few of those naive hippies will graduate from the bamboo flute to something better. Even the ones who don't keep trying to play Irish music will know a bit more about it than they did before they tried.
More friends for Irish music equals more acceptance by the general public, more opportunities to hear quality music (because good players--like the members of Lunasa--can afford to do tours), and more Irish sessions everywhere. Sure, some of them will be crap sessions, but at least Irish music will be played in more places. In places where Irish music is not well known, you have to start somewhere.
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by John Galt
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I don't think this book or this band or the Bothy band would be a good i
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by The Grand Spy
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
lost track of what i was saying. Sorry. It's a plastic paddy book!!!!
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by The Grand Spy
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Alrighty then. Good session was it?
# Posted on November 21st 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Sing to the tune of David Bowie taking the p*ss out of Ricky Gervais on'Extras".
"Silly little tune book,
knows not whats its doing,
trying to make some money,
shame its tunes are so bad..."
Sorry Lunasa I've had a few drinkies and my imagination is getting the better of me!
Ok bed for me now, nighty night Kevin, Sean, Trevor and Ringo, you're the best!
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by Gerry1972
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
always annoy me a little these threads. without Lunasa a good % of people wouldn't have found ITM and that doesn't include only "hippies". Please spare us ITM snobbery on Sunday mornings at least
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by geoffmc
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
I love Lunasa- one of my favorite bands- top five! And would love to get my hands on any tune book they happened to put out. I don't know any of them personally but can't imagine they don't enjoy what they do- I know I sure do....
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by fiddlinfarmer
Lunasa tune book!
Lúnasa
http://www.lunasa.ie/music-books.php
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
What surprises me about Lunasa is that they are such terrific imaginative tune players, And yet their arrangements are so predictable and unimaginative.
With regards to the book itself, I fear it's a little more damaging to the music than merely being pointless. We've all some across people who play Lunasa sets they've obviously learned from a book, Yes, it's a little bit damaging to the music, but not really that much in the grand scheme of it.
On the whole, fair play them. They are great trad players, (not merely good mind, but really really good). I'm a little sad when people put them on a pedestal of being the best band, but it doesn't really matter. It annoys me when they are referred to as being innovative, but that doesn't really matter either.
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by ...
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
lunasa are in no way 'innovative'. they are very professional and tight but there's not much creativity about the arrangements. there's no such thing as the best band either, just what you prefer.
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
thanks for the link Random Notes- too pricey for me right now, but if that should change I know where to find it- or if a used copy surfaces somewhere..... the US dollar isn't doing too well in terms of purchasing power over there at present.
The thing is, I don't understand what the issue is with the arrangements- seems to me that arrangements on paper are just the basic layout of the notes so to speak- and after that it's what the musician does with it that makes it their own and different from anyone else who plays the same tune. So I don't expect to read a piece of sheet music and play it note for note and have it sound like Lunasa or whomever-it's just bare-bones structure of the piece when it's on paper I think- but what do I know......
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by fiddlinfarmer
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Maybe Lunasa aren't aspiring to stay within in the boundaries of ITM? They are a very successful group who must be doing something right in order to have such a big fan base.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by marian clare
Re: Lunasa's sad little tune book!
Lunasa are a great band with fantastic members and play great music to worldwide acclaim. its not really up for debate.
# Posted on November 26th 2008 by S.Doherty