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Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
My primary influences and preferences, with regards to Scottish music under the bow, are island-centric ~ the Canadian Maritimes ~ Cape Breton Island, Prince Edward, etc. ~ and the Shetlands. I have experienced other forms of Scottish fiddling enough to be able to loosely, in an unfair and general way, state some things I really don't seem to like, such as the classically bent and RSCDS influenced. Too much starch and affectation doesn't go well with me. While I quite like Scott Skinner as a composer, some of his tunes, as a fiddler ~ sorry, no thanks. Some musicians just don't manage to achieve balance between the interests of the music and their own self-interests, the excessive expression of those who can stand in the way of a good tune, or trammel it under foot in an effort to show what they can do. something I value much more than the acrobatics or melodrama of the exhitionist is the ability of a musician to blend, to lose themselves in the music, complementing a melody through a deeper understanding, rather than beating it up with flash like a bully... I can almost imagine tunes under such treatment being left black and blue and bleeding.
Oh yeah, I hate those strung out sets of one-tune-after-another, no repeats, that just seem to say to me the musician(s) really don't care enough about a single melody to give it time. I'm not convinced they do understand it, and usually, such treatments sound very dotty to me, meaning off the paper, pretty much note-for-note with, maybe, a few embellishments thrown in during their rush to move on to the next melody...
But, I'm seeking direction, wanting to expand my experience here aurally and to expand and increase my experience, appreciation and respect for Scottish fiddling. Don't worry about the above, but please, tell me what your favourite Scottish fiddlers and fiddle recordings are, and why.
As an idea of just one of many, one I've just been listening to and am quite fond of ~ raw, unaccompanied fiddle (thank the powers that be) ~ Scottish music by a fine musician and composer ~ Jerry Holland's recording "Crystal Clear" is a joy... http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1664
Links to relevant previous discussions are also welcome...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I love the playing of Duncan Chisholm, especially his slow airs, loads of feeling.The late Wille Hunter was a brilliant player, and his prodigy Bryan Gear has his first CD coming out soon, well worth getting.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
styles change over time, and i think scots fiddling is moving out of that . . . static preciousness, and more into line with its other cousins. aly bain has always had impeccable taste, to my ear. claire mann seems to retain some of the archaic starch, while playing a very listenable line -- but i don't think she's ever been into scots stylistic purity.
phil and johnny cunningham used to annoy me with their speed-up marathons (beating up the tunes), but that was just pandering to the audience, i think.
all i know of lori watson is her setting of 'tam's slow march' on youtube, but it certainly is beautiful.
but i'm pretty hooked into maritime fiddling myself, so...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"styles change over time, and i think scots fiddling is moving out of that . . . static preciousness, and more into line with its other cousins."
Not quite sure if I'm picking you up right or not Tina but I -think- I agree. One thing I'm very sure of is that Scottish fiddlers/tradies are MUCH more open minded that how their Irish counterparts are portrayed and sometimes portray themselves on this site.
"Static preciousness" is rare here nowadays. Players here generally will quite happily experiment extensively and usually do it successfully. If they were Irish the vitriol on this board would be unparalleled. If Gavin, Maloney, MacGoldrick etc are reviled by sections of the posters on here then the Scottish players would be seen as the anti-Christ. There are loads of amazing players here in Scotland but don't expect them to conform to any ideals.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I agree with bogman.
There seems to be an image of Scottish fiddle music among a small section of Irish music aficionados that is untainted by reality.
However, the upside of such unfamiliarity (apart from a few obvious widely-known names) is that there is not such an international court of opinion setting itself up as the defenders of pure drop Scottish music.
The musicians are very secure in their Scottish identity and few people - player or listener - seem threatened by experimentation.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
'tinamatt
I am not sure if Clare Mann would describe herself as Scottish ,she lives these days in Glasgow for sure but comes from Newcastle . I can ask her next time I see her if you want .
( wow I love name dropping its so rare I have the chance )
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks, my list of necessary listens is growing.
About dear Johnny Cunningham, we had the pleasure of his company, if not as often as we would have liked. He never rushed the music and was a gentleman and a card, great fun, and a superb dance musician too. Yes, that puts a bias on our opinions, my wife and I, be we loved the man, and also his fiddling...
I enjoyed the links, great contrast. Keep the recommendations coming, please, and links too, appreciated...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Donald MacLellan and Dougie MacPhee made excellent music, Maritimes, but steeped in a strict Scottish tradition as the liner notes describe. He was an immensely expressive stylist without losing the intrinsic beauty of the music that carries the player. http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/2388
Alasdair Fraser is also a remarkable fiddle player, widely known and )I think) living in California now. Unfortunately, some of his recordings teeter on the brink of New Age crap! But his first LP is excellent and on each record there is at least two or three "lost" tunes -- formerly out of circulation and collected from some obscure source or player by Alasdair. http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2031
If you get the chance, he readily demonstrates just the type of understanding you describe, and when I saw him live I couldn't believe it was the same fiddle player as on the records. It was such spirited playing I thought he would vanish in a puff of smoke.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks GW, yes, I love MacLellan & MacPhee. I haven't heard Alasdair Fraser's first album, and only once playing live, and that has coloured my opinion to be unfavourable, though recognizing the skill. I think we walked out of the concert, just too over the top for us, and as you suggest, if being kind 'new agey'... I don't blame the cellist. I'll have to see if I can get an ear full of his first recording somewhere. I have heard he is a superb teacher, from reputable sources...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I saw him perform as himself, essentially, at a summer festival in the mountains free from the pretensions of a theater (it was byob and bring your own seating -- *behind* the dancing), and sans the dastardly cellist he totes around now. I understand the claims the cello makes to Scottish trad. But the one in question belongs in an art gallery, I think.
I can see how a theater and a celloput certain constraints on the music. You have to fit the cello in each tune, sometimes it just shouldn't fit. This was much more organic.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Where to start - John McCusker, Marie Fielding, Celine Donoghue, Catriona Macdonald (if you don't have her CD Bold, buy it), Angus Grant Jnr, Jennifer Wrigley and Gordon Gunn. I could go on. These are all worth a listen and they are all very different representing a pretty wide range of regional styles. None are trapped in the Strathspey and Reel style. Several make the mistake of playing in fiddle supergroups (the flashy Blazin' Fiddles and the dull Fiddlers Bid) but they are at their best in smaller outfits.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Sorry to go a bit off topic Ceolachan: a small number of musicians have managed to record Scottish fiddle music on other instruments with some success. As I type I'm listening to Chris Newman's album 'Fretwork'. Track 15 is the 'Skinner Set': The Mathematician, The Spey in State, & A A Gladstone (Edinburgh). He doesn't play too fast and I think he conveys the playful bounciness of Skinner's compositions with great passion and integrity. Not bad for a guitar player from Watford. Has anyone else heard it?
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Interesting discussion. I think the roots of misconceptions lie in the different approaches to the music.
For example, "I hate those strung out sets of one-tune-after-another, no repeats, that just seem to say to me the musician(s) really don't care enough about a single melody to give it time."
But these are usually tunes with four, five or more parts. And yet there may be only two really distinct parts in the tune, and the rest are really just variations. So where an Irish player might play a two part tune three times, with variations, the scottish six part tune is more or less the same thing.
I think I have a good perspective on this. I've been playing Irish music in Scotland now for many years.
There's a young fella I like a tune with, I ain't gonna name drop, who has the scottish tunes nailed I think. I remember saying to him once, after I'd given up trying to follow a tune I thought I had, that there is little room for manoeuvre in the scottish tunes, that you really have to know it and reproduce it extremely accurately. He said that that was a really odd thing to say, because he thought the reverse was true. (I have to add that having known him a few years, he now plays Irish music with considerably more aplomb that I play Scottish).
In fact, I've witnessed quite a few youngsters come to town with the scottish music nailed, and really relatively quickly, get a really good handle on Irish music.
I think Irish music is easier. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is, just that I find it easier, for obvious reasons.
But having said all that, lots of sessions hear don't really make much of a distinction, which is a shame I think. There are Scottish and Irish musicians playing mixtures of Irish and scottish music all together in a kind of mishmash. A bit of a din really.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I like the Northeast Style...
all of these vids are from Jink and Diddle...John Turner was a pupil of Hector MacAndrew who learned from his father who was a fiddler and a piper who had a teacher whose teacher took lessons from someone taught by Niel Gow....
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I am sort of in concurrence @ Scott Skinner....
I like some Robert Mackintosh tunes, but right now I am playing a lot of the Capt Simon Fraser Collection...these were tunes and collections of old Gaelic Airs...beautiful stuff..
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Llig ~ the ones that come immediately to mind that send me around the twist were 2-part tunes played one-after-the-other, not sprawling multi-parters... I like that tale, the one without dropping a name...
Yes Joel, I am actually quite fond of this dance music finger picked on a fretboard. I love Dave MacIsaac's work there, what was, I think, his first album. After giving away my copy I was to find that it was no longer available. I recommend that listen, if you can find someone with a copy. I love his fiddling too.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Micheal, it seems that the folks in cape Breton are the tune stringers...they will play a tune through twice and only twice before moving along to the next...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceolachan: thanks for the introduction to Dave MacIsaac. I hadn't heard of him before. Found a few interesting clips on Youtube with him and Natalie MacMaster. The only fiddle tunes of his I could find were very poor recordings.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceol, I think you would l record like the Alasdair Fraser and Tony MacManus record. Terrific attention to detail, and no frills. Lovely playing from both where they are really listening to each other. A far cry from the dreadful cellist wifey.
The early recording, with guitar, I'd sadly given up, was made in the 80s... I'm sure I remember that Paul Cranford had a couple of MP3s worth of this album on his site for our listening pleasure but I haven't managed to find them...
That early album by Dave MacIsaac was a favourite listen, gave me lots of pleasure. I too often give favourites away. My wife tries to temper this, but I've lost two other favourite recordings within the last 6 months I have yet to replace... They are, hopefully giving pleasure to others...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
For 18th century Northest style give a listen to Pete Clark. A very talented musician who has a passion for the music of Gow and Macintosh in the Scottish genre.He writes some beautiful tunes himself.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Blimey Sunnybear that first Youtube track is fantastic: I never heard a load of fiddlers sounding so much like bagpipes. By the way did you know that the German word for Bagpipes is 'Dudelsack'? That's got to be the best word in folk music. My wife thinks it sounds rude . . .
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Geoff, that's probably because I'd already mentioned a familiarity and general preference for Maritime & Shetland takes on the music, but it is always good to see Tom Anderson's name, character and music given further promotion...
~ & WORKSHOPS! Johannes, a great suggestion and a perfect way to further ones understanding and appreciation, but I kind of doubt I'll be able to convince my wife to shoot up to Edinburgh this weekend, but I'm tempted...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
dreadful cellist wifey---I won't even mention her name, since we know who she is, and there's no reason to drag her name though the muck---I happen to think she's wonderful. She does what she does, it's her style, and you can like it her not, but she's immensely talented, whatever your opinion. And she's the furthest thing from flashy---she's up there to be judged on her music, unlike some celtic woman types.
Heaven forbid people try to do something new with traditional tunes! And that's the ironic thing, I think---she and Fraser play traditional settings of traditional tunes, on traditional instruments, and yet people aren't happy.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Oh, and of course, don't forget Johnny Cunningham. Someone said once that Johnny couldn't make up his mind whether he wanted to be a Scottish or an Irish fiddler, which I think is hilarious but true in a way---he was definitely a reflection of the way Scottish musicians tend to be comfortable playing Irish music.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
you are right of course, Kennedy...I suppose I am saying then that what she is doing is not my style...she is very talented and is an amazing cellist...I like the cello playing on Pete Clarks Mackintosh at Murthely cd quite a bit...the playing there is imaginative and solid...perhaps it is the chunking that I find disagreeable to my ear when I hear the newer Alisdair stuff...
I too like Jenna Reid and anna Wendy Stevenson..
there is also Melinda Crawford who has a great disc out and is linked in the above u-tube videos I posted...
Kennedy ~ it was the whole package. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of cellists, those that made a lovely and inspiring fit, and those that caused fits... That concert, it was obvious there were talented people involved, and it is the only one I've experienced featuring Fraser, but it was just too ~ slick and smarmy for us. Our main Scottish fiddling influences have a respect for 'dirt'. That particular night, and setting, and music, could have been a consort of recorders or a classical duo, it just didn't fit, in that one circumstance of experience ~ anything earth bound and traditional in that sense ~ earth and dirt... It didn't make us want to dance ~ or stay for the conclusion, which I'm sure was loud and appreciative applause. I think the local dignitaries were all present...
Thanks for the recommendations and links all, much appreciated. My Christmas list is growing.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I love the clip of Breabach, posted by Bogman. You don't get to hear much of Patsy Reid's fiddle, but I love the sound it makes together with the pipes (although, admittedly, this combination of instruments relies on amplification to achieve the right balance). And I love the rawness of their Cabar Feidh, before it crossed the water and took on human form as Rakish Paddy.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I thing Dougie MacLean is a terrific fiddler player and tune writer (though I think his album just called "fiddle" is better than the one you linked to above.
And listen out for him on the Silly Wizard record "wild and beautiful". Just as wild and beautiful as Johnny. (I never knew why the brothers weren't on that record together)
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Michael, I'm pretty sure it was because Johnny was living in the US at the time. He pulled out from the group for a while---they did a US tour or two where he didn't join them.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I'd second and third recommendations for the MacLean album, Fiddle ... and thanks for the Breabach link - never heard of them, I really like what they are doing.
John Martin made a cassette tape with Jack Evans on guitar which is one of my favourite recordings of Scottish fiddle music ever. I'll ask John's permission to make you a copy, "c".
And if any of the Australians see this - Dougie McLean has a short tour round the west coast of Australia coming up soon. Check his website.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ahh, don't be too hard on the Capers, now... after all, they've been the principle keepers of the flame since the high era of Scottish fiddling (in the 1700's, if memory serves). Long after the tunes mostly died out in Scotland, they were played and passed down for generations on that jolly little isolated island. If you go to Cranfordpub.com, you'll find sources and exponents aplenty. Too bad you can't find Dwayne Cote recorded (except an old tape, as far as I know). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYTtpcgAV4
As for playing the tunes as composed, there's a big difference between playing dotted eighth/sixteenth instead of sixteenth/dotted eighth, and, as in any language, written or aural, punctuation can change things, not the least of which are intention and/or understanding. Period. heh.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks all... My experiences here have been mostly centered around the Canadian Maritimes and the Shetlands, but it is also pretty hard not to be familiar with Aly Bain's music and opus...
So many kind recommendations, here's another one in return a source for fiddle tunes from across the Atlantic bog from here ~ Canada, including some choice Cape Breton choices:
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Doing searches on these recommendations I've discovered that Alasdair Fraser's first recording "Portrait of a Scottish Fiddler" is available on CD. Amazon has it as do others. I'll have to chase it up... The fiddler and his recordings are also listed here:
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Sorry, the idea that any Scottish music died out and needed Cape Breton to revive it is romanticized crap. We have a vast range of continuous traditions here. CB music is great stuff, but it's only one variety of Scottish music.
My favourite Scottish fiddler is Paul Anderson - I think he has some recordings available (I've only heard him live).
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Yeah, I queried that one too. Though I let it slide because I'm no expert. But it just doesn't make sense. If it were true, then you'd hear the influence of Cape Breton music in the Scottish music we have today, And you don't.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Yes, that one was way of the mark drone. It's a common misunderstanding that Scottish music almost died out, usually because of the disarming act and the effects of the church. There is plenty proof that that was far from the case. Not to mention all the evidence of the piping and oral gaelic tradition there are huge collections of tunes from the mid 1800's (probably when it became possible to print collections of tunes). The Skye, Atholl and Gunn Collections contain thousands of tunes that were 'trad' at the time. William Gunn was born in 1788. These are just three examples so it's highly unlikely they would have collected such a vast collection of tunes if they had all but died out.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I must have missed that? ~ focusing more on recommendations than asides. Who said that? ~ Oh! drone! I saw the Cape Breton mention and 'Cranford' and the rest didn't quite sink in till now. Scottish music has set root many places, along with the Scots moving in and bringing their rich traditions with them. The music has continued and evolved and adapted in many climes, including back here, in Britain, and that includes the influence of the muses and some great compositions too. Proof of its health is the continued evolution. The Maritimes and Cape Breton Island, yes, lovely music, but 'principle keepers of the flame'? Maybe, certain aspects of that wider warmth, but not the sole bearer of what can be called 'Scottish' or 'Scotland's' ~ especially since Scotland herself has never fully let go of it and still values it. History of that value exists in the history of archiving and collection, and as survives in its major universities, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. One would hardly make the same claims with regards to Irish music for Chicago, New York, London or Glasgow ~ as 'principle keepers of the (Irish) flame'... But the campfires were kept lit. That is a good thing...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Those major Scottish collections touched on by bogman also had their influence on the Maritimes, and it was (is) not unusual to find one of those old books knocking about in a fiddler's house, referred to, and highly prized...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
As I understand it -- bogman, do feel free to correct me -- Scottish piping traditions were altered inexorably by the Victorians, who put it into the military and pipe band context. The militarized style of playing dominated the tradition and the older style became like the sea eagle, incredibly endangered if not extinct in some areas. The diaspora would not have been as affected by the militarization of the music, so Cape Breton piping for example would have retained many of its pre mid-1800s characteristics. Maybe that is the source of the idea that Cape Breton was the "principle keeper of the flame."
That said, the fiddle tradition in Scotland was alive and well throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. It would have had a fluid relationship with Irish fiddling given that thousands of people migrated between Ireland and Scotland, either permanently or for seasonal work.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I think that's fair comment SilverSpear, though the pipes were also used for dancing, where the playing was probably more of an older stlye. I actually have an old set of pipes that were played at crossroads ceilidh well over 100 years ago. (Often there was nowhere for dances so they were held at the crossroads between villages here in the islands). The military during the Victorian era certainly meant that that the perception of pipes was as a martial instrument, with the exception of pìobaireachd, but it's unlikely that dance music was as rare as is made out now. Probably a good parallel is tartan. It's often thought that the Victorians were largely responsible for the introduction of tartan when in fact they only standardized the weave (again thanks to new technology) and introduced dress tartans etc. Countless paintings going back hundreds of years are proof of this.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I always thought the Kilt was around since about the 1570s (though tartan earlier), and that the standard Highland dress nonsense was invented by Walter Scott for a visit to Edinburgh by Gearge IV, Queen Vics' uncle.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Walter Scott didn't invent highland dress but you're right in that he is often credited with having a lot to do with how we know it today. He wasn't born till the late 1700s so he can't have actually invented it.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceol, I only mentioned Aly Bain because the giants often get overlooked, and for people unfamiliar wit Scottish fiddling, he' be a good place to start.
Speaking of the Canadian Marimes, there's an album that deserves a 5-star rating (you are probably familiar with it): it's Party Acadien with Barachois from Prince Edward Island. Simply terrific.
(it's in the recordings section)
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I have to admit that I like it myself if it's worn well. But there are some outrageous frilly efforts out there that are just embarrassing - commonly seen worn by awkward looking wedding pishheads. The most outstandingly mental displays probably came from 19th and 20th century pipers. They had some amazing buckled, feathery stuff with huge mustaches and beards and strutted about like peacocks, but I think they kind of suited it
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I'm glad I'm not alone drone ~ mea culpa! ~ for the next inevitable screw-up on my part...
Just thought folks might like to know one tenuous root to this thread, a recording I dug out and dusted off for a close listen:
"Best of Scottish Fiddle" ~ Arc Music, EUCD 2098
I'm not a believer... :- / I'd bought this awhile back, but it wasn't something that quite clicked with either of us, so we haven't given it much air time. Though I've learned not to generally accept such hype, 'best', there were names on the cover I wasn't familiar with, that got my interest, so I thought, why not, and I think I got it cheap too, for a fiver. It's OK, and I know some folks probably really like what's on this, but not even a toe was moved, and no wry smile either, so it didn't tickle my rhythm bones or cause my heart to skip. I know that nature & nurture affect our views and responses, and I'm pretty aware of what of those elements in me have the greater sway with regard to music. I'm not saying there isn't talent here, but I won't be throwing it in the suitcase with the HHGTTG when the Vogons or some other alien race come calling...
But, I'm glad to say, you lot have helped to keep my faith in Scottish music on the fiddle and I intend to chase up some of those recordings for our listening pleasure. Thanks loads, I really do appreciate it, including the side shoots...
Highland bagpipe next? My all time favourite ~ a little known Cape Breton piper for which recordings are rare, and nothing commercial. He played for dancers, including at crossroads, platforms and in village halls. His playing swung, lifted my feet and made me want to dance. Not piob mhor there, strictly music to move the heart and blood and feet...
Again ~ go raibh mile ma' agat, you're a great lot and any more recommendations, or emails, remain welcome...
Note: The fiddlers and bongoists and keyboardists and assorted others ~ I recognize and nod to their talent ~ but ~ just not, to use the cliche, my cup of tea...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"the most outstandingly mental displays probably came from 19th and 20th century pipers. They had some amazing buckled, feathery stuff with huge mustaches and beards and strutted about like peacocks, but I think they kind of suited it."
I met a group of those guys in the Royal Oak last winter at about 2am.
Ceol,
The group Na Tri Seudan is definitely worth looking up for Highland piping. I saw them at the William Kennedy Festival and they were fantastic. The group is dedicated to reviving the "old" style of piping and play sets Hamish Moore made specifically for that purpose, in A rather than Bb.
Other pipers I'd recommend listening to include Gordon Duncan, Ali Hutton, Ross Ainslie, Angus MacKenzie, and our very own Bogman.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
sorry, I meant the standard Highland dress nonsense as we know it today. The stuff that English people get married in.,
what has this got to do with the music,and the OPs question.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Well, I actually wear a kilt from time to time and reckon I look very good. I don't wear the "wedding stuff" but the "everyday" tartan with a tweed jacket etc.
It's still smart enough though and I really dislike the Jacobite shirts and the like. Do it properly or not at all!
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
The most uncompfortable thing about the modern kilt is the sporran ~ UGH! I love the old wrap around, far superior, as are the old natural die tartans... But hey, I'm an oatie at heart. I could live off of porridge, Athole Brose and clutty dumpling ~ and fresh caught mackerel in oat crumb is to die for...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
OK, don't know why, but it doesn't seem that anyone has mentioned Bonnie Rideout, and I can't imagine why not. She's got a beautiful style-very expressive, both on the fiddle and viola. Always loved the fiddle, but because of her playing, I now think the viola is my preference-she's very good-have a listen, anyway, and see what you think.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I think Highland dress, done properly, is magnificent. On a stout wearer of maturer years, swelling with pride and suitably hirsute, it makes me think of a capercaillie or some other huge wild turkey-type bird, morphing into something truly grotesque before one's eyes as anger and lust compel it to inflate while performing preposterous antics and noises in front of rivals, females and armchair naturalists watching BBC 2. A vicarious walk on the wild side, indeed!
It would probably took experts in dress manufacture / history / design to devise the first actual sets of Highland dress with all the trimmings. But Walter Scott lived in the Tweed Valley, a busy centre of textile manufacture in his time, so he had access to plenty of information about matters relating to dress.
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"as anger and lust compel it to inflate while performing preposterous antics and noises in front of rivals" ~ OUCH! Ones piercings must really hurt when that happens...
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Bogman - thanks for the link to Alasdair. A lovely surprise - realised I'd seen him play at Ceolas, when he was a pretty damn fine fiddler at 17 or so... nice chap too.
Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
My primary influences and preferences, with regards to Scottish music under the bow, are island-centric ~ the Canadian Maritimes ~ Cape Breton Island, Prince Edward, etc. ~ and the Shetlands. I have experienced other forms of Scottish fiddling enough to be able to loosely, in an unfair and general way, state some things I really don't seem to like, such as the classically bent and RSCDS influenced. Too much starch and affectation doesn't go well with me. While I quite like Scott Skinner as a composer, some of his tunes, as a fiddler ~ sorry, no thanks. Some musicians just don't manage to achieve balance between the interests of the music and their own self-interests, the excessive expression of those who can stand in the way of a good tune, or trammel it under foot in an effort to show what they can do. something I value much more than the acrobatics or melodrama of the exhitionist is the ability of a musician to blend, to lose themselves in the music, complementing a melody through a deeper understanding, rather than beating it up with flash like a bully... I can almost imagine tunes under such treatment being left black and blue and bleeding.
Oh yeah, I hate those strung out sets of one-tune-after-another, no repeats, that just seem to say to me the musician(s) really don't care enough about a single melody to give it time. I'm not convinced they do understand it, and usually, such treatments sound very dotty to me, meaning off the paper, pretty much note-for-note with, maybe, a few embellishments thrown in during their rush to move on to the next melody...
But, I'm seeking direction, wanting to expand my experience here aurally and to expand and increase my experience, appreciation and respect for Scottish fiddling. Don't worry about the above, but please, tell me what your favourite Scottish fiddlers and fiddle recordings are, and why.
As an idea of just one of many, one I've just been listening to and am quite fond of ~ raw, unaccompanied fiddle (thank the powers that be) ~ Scottish music by a fine musician and composer ~ Jerry Holland's recording "Crystal Clear" is a joy...
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1664
Links to relevant previous discussions are also welcome...
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I love the playing of Duncan Chisholm, especially his slow airs, loads of feeling.The late Wille Hunter was a brilliant player, and his prodigy Bryan Gear has his first CD coming out soon, well worth getting.
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by tirvaluk
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks tirvaluk, I also like Willie Hunter's playing...
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
For Hebridean fiddling Alasdair White is a favourite player.
http://www.myspace.com/alasdairwhite
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
styles change over time, and i think scots fiddling is moving out of that . . . static preciousness, and more into line with its other cousins. aly bain has always had impeccable taste, to my ear. claire mann seems to retain some of the archaic starch, while playing a very listenable line -- but i don't think she's ever been into scots stylistic purity.
phil and johnny cunningham used to annoy me with their speed-up marathons (beating up the tunes), but that was just pandering to the audience, i think.
all i know of lori watson is her setting of 'tam's slow march' on youtube, but it certainly is beautiful.
but i'm pretty hooked into maritime fiddling myself, so...
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by 'tinamatt
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"styles change over time, and i think scots fiddling is moving out of that . . . static preciousness, and more into line with its other cousins."
Not quite sure if I'm picking you up right or not Tina but I -think- I agree. One thing I'm very sure of is that Scottish fiddlers/tradies are MUCH more open minded that how their Irish counterparts are portrayed and sometimes portray themselves on this site.
"Static preciousness" is rare here nowadays. Players here generally will quite happily experiment extensively and usually do it successfully. If they were Irish the vitriol on this board would be unparalleled. If Gavin, Maloney, MacGoldrick etc are reviled by sections of the posters on here then the Scottish players would be seen as the anti-Christ. There are loads of amazing players here in Scotland but don't expect them to conform to any ideals.
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I agree with bogman.
There seems to be an image of Scottish fiddle music among a small section of Irish music aficionados that is untainted by reality.
However, the upside of such unfamiliarity (apart from a few obvious widely-known names) is that there is not such an international court of opinion setting itself up as the defenders of pure drop Scottish music.
The musicians are very secure in their Scottish identity and few people - player or listener - seem threatened by experimentation.
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by Bren
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
'tinamatt
I am not sure if Clare Mann would describe herself as Scottish ,she lives these days in Glasgow for sure but comes from Newcastle . I can ask her next time I see her if you want .
( wow I love name dropping its so rare I have the chance )
# Posted on November 16th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Here's Angus Grant Jnr. This particular clip is not trad in the traditional sense but a fantastic fiddler
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNWMwmwmz3U
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Also worth checking out are Session A9, Blazin Fiddles and Fiddlers Bid. All are multiple fiddle bands packed with great players.
Some links to Scottish fiddle circles....
http://www.myspace.com/sessiona9
http://www.myspace.com/iainglenfinnan
http://www.myspace.com/fiddlersbid
http://www.myspace.com/gabemcvarish
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks, my list of necessary listens is growing.
About dear Johnny Cunningham, we had the pleasure of his company, if not as often as we would have liked. He never rushed the music and was a gentleman and a card, great fun, and a superb dance musician too. Yes, that puts a bias on our opinions, my wife and I, be we loved the man, and also his fiddling...
I enjoyed the links, great contrast. Keep the recommendations coming, please, and links too, appreciated...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Donald MacLellan and Dougie MacPhee made excellent music, Maritimes, but steeped in a strict Scottish tradition as the liner notes describe. He was an immensely expressive stylist without losing the intrinsic beauty of the music that carries the player.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/2388
Alasdair Fraser is also a remarkable fiddle player, widely known and )I think) living in California now. Unfortunately, some of his recordings teeter on the brink of New Age crap! But his first LP is excellent and on each record there is at least two or three "lost" tunes -- formerly out of circulation and collected from some obscure source or player by Alasdair.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2031
If you get the chance, he readily demonstrates just the type of understanding you describe, and when I saw him live I couldn't believe it was the same fiddle player as on the records. It was such spirited playing I thought he would vanish in a puff of smoke.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by gravelwalks
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks GW, yes, I love MacLellan & MacPhee. I haven't heard Alasdair Fraser's first album, and only once playing live, and that has coloured my opinion to be unfavourable, though recognizing the skill. I think we walked out of the concert, just too over the top for us, and as you suggest, if being kind 'new agey'... I don't blame the cellist.
I'll have to see if I can get an ear full of his first recording somewhere. I have heard he is a superb teacher, from reputable sources...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Aiden O' Rourke with Lau
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qD-2gF6Q2Y
Lori Watson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKS8bB-dVv4
Patsy Reid with Breabach
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de12hjg8kz4
Eilidh Shaw
http://www.myspace.com/eilidhshaw
One you'll know c
http://www.myspace.com/johnnycunninghamfan
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I saw him perform as himself, essentially, at a summer festival in the mountains free from the pretensions of a theater (it was byob and bring your own seating -- *behind* the dancing), and sans the dastardly cellist he totes around now.
I understand the claims the cello makes to Scottish trad. But the one in question belongs in an art gallery, I think.
I can see how a theater and a celloput certain constraints on the music. You have to fit the cello in each tune, sometimes it just shouldn't fit. This was much more organic.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by gravelwalks
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Where to start - John McCusker, Marie Fielding, Celine Donoghue, Catriona Macdonald (if you don't have her CD Bold, buy it), Angus Grant Jnr, Jennifer Wrigley and Gordon Gunn. I could go on. These are all worth a listen and they are all very different representing a pretty wide range of regional styles. None are trapped in the Strathspey and Reel style. Several make the mistake of playing in fiddle supergroups (the flashy Blazin' Fiddles and the dull Fiddlers Bid) but they are at their best in smaller outfits.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by bigfish
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Sorry to go a bit off topic Ceolachan: a small number of musicians have managed to record Scottish fiddle music on other instruments with some success. As I type I'm listening to Chris Newman's album 'Fretwork'. Track 15 is the 'Skinner Set': The Mathematician, The Spey in State, & A A Gladstone (Edinburgh). He doesn't play too fast and I think he conveys the playful bounciness of Skinner's compositions with great passion and integrity. Not bad for a guitar player from Watford. Has anyone else heard it?
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Joel McDermott
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Interesting discussion. I think the roots of misconceptions lie in the different approaches to the music.
For example, "I hate those strung out sets of one-tune-after-another, no repeats, that just seem to say to me the musician(s) really don't care enough about a single melody to give it time."
But these are usually tunes with four, five or more parts. And yet there may be only two really distinct parts in the tune, and the rest are really just variations. So where an Irish player might play a two part tune three times, with variations, the scottish six part tune is more or less the same thing.
I think I have a good perspective on this. I've been playing Irish music in Scotland now for many years.
There's a young fella I like a tune with, I ain't gonna name drop, who has the scottish tunes nailed I think. I remember saying to him once, after I'd given up trying to follow a tune I thought I had, that there is little room for manoeuvre in the scottish tunes, that you really have to know it and reproduce it extremely accurately. He said that that was a really odd thing to say, because he thought the reverse was true. (I have to add that having known him a few years, he now plays Irish music with considerably more aplomb that I play Scottish).
In fact, I've witnessed quite a few youngsters come to town with the scottish music nailed, and really relatively quickly, get a really good handle on Irish music.
I think Irish music is easier. But that doesn't necessarily mean it is, just that I find it easier, for obvious reasons.
But having said all that, lots of sessions hear don't really make much of a distinction, which is a shame I think. There are Scottish and Irish musicians playing mixtures of Irish and scottish music all together in a kind of mishmash. A bit of a din really.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I like the Northeast Style...
all of these vids are from Jink and Diddle...John Turner was a pupil of Hector MacAndrew who learned from his father who was a fiddler and a piper who had a teacher whose teacher took lessons from someone taught by Niel Gow....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4xgutoUZlo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__knPOGftBQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMv9U85dbLU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q3Z_RYU6A8
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I am sort of in concurrence @ Scott Skinner....
I like some Robert Mackintosh tunes, but right now I am playing a lot of the Capt Simon Fraser Collection...these were tunes and collections of old Gaelic Airs...beautiful stuff..
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Llig ~ the ones that come immediately to mind that send me around the twist were 2-part tunes played one-after-the-other, not sprawling multi-parters... I like that tale, the one without dropping a name...
Yes Joel, I am actually quite fond of this dance music finger picked on a fretboard. I love Dave MacIsaac's work there, what was, I think, his first album. After giving away my copy I was to find that it was no longer available. I recommend that listen, if you can find someone with a copy. I love his fiddling too.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks Sunnybear, and the rest. There's no limit on this list. My ignorance welcomes any light in...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Micheal, it seems that the folks in cape Breton are the tune stringers...they will play a tune through twice and only twice before moving along to the next...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceolachan: thanks for the introduction to Dave MacIsaac. I hadn't heard of him before. Found a few interesting clips on Youtube with him and Natalie MacMaster. The only fiddle tunes of his I could find were very poor recordings.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Joel McDermott
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceol, I think you would l record like the Alasdair Fraser and Tony MacManus record. Terrific attention to detail, and no frills. Lovely playing from both where they are really listening to each other. A far cry from the dreadful cellist wifey.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
thanks llig, the talent I had heard, and the good reports of his teaching, deserves further consideration...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
don't forget ol' Ptarmigan, our resident expert on such matters...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Dave MacIsaac
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF-JDAdQyXo
http://www.scottmacmillan.ca/albums/souls.html
http://www.cranfordpub.com/
http://www.cranfordpub.com/recordings/MacIsaacArchives.htm
The early recording, with guitar, I'd sadly given up, was made in the 80s... I'm sure I remember that Paul Cranford had a couple of MP3s worth of this album on his site for our listening pleasure but I haven't managed to find them...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
That early album by Dave MacIsaac was a favourite listen, gave me lots of pleasure. I too often give favourites away. My wife tries to temper this, but I've lost two other favourite recordings within the last 6 months I have yet to replace...
They are, hopefully giving pleasure to others...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
For 18th century Northest style give a listen to Pete Clark. A very talented musician who has a passion for the music of Gow and Macintosh in the Scottish genre.He writes some beautiful tunes himself.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by crfiddler
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Some of my faves are:
Hanneke Cassel:
http://www.hannekecassel.com/
Laura Risk:
http://www.laurarisk.com/
Laura Courtese:
http://www.lauracortese.com/
Wrigley Sisters: (Orkney)
http://www.wrigleysisters.com/
Alasdair Fraser:
http://www.alasdairfraser.com/
Alasdair white:
(NWA)
Plus loads of Cape Breton, PEI and Shetland fiddle players
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by davydd
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Blimey Sunnybear that first Youtube track is fantastic: I never heard a load of fiddlers sounding so much like bagpipes. By the way did you know that the German word for Bagpipes is 'Dudelsack'? That's got to be the best word in folk music. My wife thinks it sounds rude . . .
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Joel McDermott
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Surprised no one has mentioned "The" Shetland fiddler himself, Tom Anderson - no end of his tunes are available in print.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Widen your perspective at The Scots Fiddle Festival this weekend
http://www.scotsfiddlefestival.com/Programme-main.htm
although there's lots of non Scottish music featured too including Kevin Burke......
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Jon Jay
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Geoff, that's probably because I'd already mentioned a familiarity and general preference for Maritime & Shetland takes on the music, but it is always good to see Tom Anderson's name, character and music given further promotion...
~ & WORKSHOPS!
Johannes, a great suggestion and a perfect way to further ones understanding and appreciation, but I kind of doubt I'll be able to convince my wife to shoot up to Edinburgh this weekend, but I'm tempted...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Have a listen to Chris Duncan (Australia), re; Scottish fiddle. Very nice.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by bindicat
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Alisdair is more 'pan celtic" it seems these days what the chunking "wifey" (not!) cello...his early stuff is worth a listen...
Joel, my son plays the dudelsacl...hahaha that is a funny word...wait...I think I have one of those!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
dreadful cellist wifey---I won't even mention her name, since we know who she is, and there's no reason to drag her name though the muck---I happen to think she's wonderful. She does what she does, it's her style, and you can like it her not, but she's immensely talented, whatever your opinion. And she's the furthest thing from flashy---she's up there to be judged on her music, unlike some celtic woman types.
Heaven forbid people try to do something new with traditional tunes! And that's the ironic thing, I think---she and Fraser play traditional settings of traditional tunes, on traditional instruments, and yet people aren't happy.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Have a listen to Jenna Reid - brilliant!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by domnull
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I like Anna Wendy Stevenson a lot:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duvTcMIvKj0
And Bruce MacGregor has done some work outside of Blazin Fiddles that are really good---I love the way he plays.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Oh, and of course, don't forget Johnny Cunningham. Someone said once that Johnny couldn't make up his mind whether he wanted to be a Scottish or an Irish fiddler, which I think is hilarious but true in a way---he was definitely a reflection of the way Scottish musicians tend to be comfortable playing Irish music.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
you are right of course, Kennedy...I suppose I am saying then that what she is doing is not my style...she is very talented and is an amazing cellist...I like the cello playing on Pete Clarks Mackintosh at Murthely cd quite a bit...the playing there is imaginative and solid...perhaps it is the chunking that I find disagreeable to my ear when I hear the newer Alisdair stuff...
I too like Jenna Reid and anna Wendy Stevenson..
there is also Melinda Crawford who has a great disc out and is linked in the above u-tube videos I posted...
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2399
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Dougie MacLean ~
& ? ~ http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/746
Seems a shame no one has yet made any comment on that recording...
Kennedy ~ it was the whole package. I have had the pleasure and displeasure of cellists, those that made a lovely and inspiring fit, and those that caused fits... That concert, it was obvious there were talented people involved, and it is the only one I've experienced featuring Fraser, but it was just too ~ slick and smarmy for us. Our main Scottish fiddling influences have a respect for 'dirt'. That particular night, and setting, and music, could have been a consort of recorders or a classical duo, it just didn't fit, in that one circumstance of experience ~ anything earth bound and traditional in that sense ~ earth and dirt... It didn't make us want to dance ~ or stay for the conclusion, which I'm sure was loud and appreciative applause. I think the local dignitaries were all present...
Thanks for the recommendations and links all, much appreciated. My Christmas list is growing.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I love the clip of Breabach, posted by Bogman. You don't get to hear much of Patsy Reid's fiddle, but I love the sound it makes together with the pipes (although, admittedly, this combination of instruments relies on amplification to achieve the right balance). And I love the rawness of their Cabar Feidh, before it crossed the water and took on human form as Rakish Paddy.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by ragaman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I thing Dougie MacLean is a terrific fiddler player and tune writer (though I think his album just called "fiddle" is better than the one you linked to above.
And listen out for him on the Silly Wizard record "wild and beautiful". Just as wild and beautiful as Johnny. (I never knew why the brothers weren't on that record together)
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Dougie's Perthshire Amber has some great fiddle pieces too!
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by crfiddler
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Michael, I'm pretty sure it was because Johnny was living in the US at the time. He pulled out from the group for a while---they did a US tour or two where he didn't join them.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by kennedy
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I'd second and third recommendations for the MacLean album, Fiddle ... and thanks for the Breabach link - never heard of them, I really like what they are doing.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by pavlf
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
John Martin who used to be with Ossian, playing with the Tannahill Weavers now think. If Shetlanders are also eligible I include Chris Stout.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by kuec
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/1620
John Martin made a cassette tape with Jack Evans on guitar which is one of my favourite recordings of Scottish fiddle music ever. I'll ask John's permission to make you a copy, "c".
And if any of the Australians see this - Dougie McLean has a short tour round the west coast of Australia coming up soon. Check his website.
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
How about that young fella, ALY BAIN ???
# Posted on November 17th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ahh, don't be too hard on the Capers, now... after all, they've been the principle keepers of the flame since the high era of Scottish fiddling (in the 1700's, if memory serves). Long after the tunes mostly died out in Scotland, they were played and passed down for generations on that jolly little isolated island. If you go to Cranfordpub.com, you'll find sources and exponents aplenty. Too bad you can't find Dwayne Cote recorded (except an old tape, as far as I know).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igYTtpcgAV4
As for playing the tunes as composed, there's a big difference between playing dotted eighth/sixteenth instead of sixteenth/dotted eighth, and, as in any language, written or aural, punctuation can change things, not the least of which are intention and/or understanding. Period. heh.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by drone
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks all... My experiences here have been mostly centered around the Canadian Maritimes and the Shetlands, but it is also pretty hard not to be familiar with Aly Bain's music and opus...
So many kind recommendations, here's another one in return a source for fiddle tunes from across the Atlantic bog from here ~ Canada, including some choice Cape Breton choices:
http://www.newworldcds.com/
http://www.newworldcds.com/heritage/rodeo.htm
Winston 'Scotty' Fitzgerald ~ lovely stuff...
& click on 'Canadian Country Classics'
"A Taste of Scottish Fiddle" is also Cape Breton
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Making live drone's nod, and in agreement ~ another source I never hesitate to mention:
http://www.cranfordpub.com/
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Doing searches on these recommendations I've discovered that Alasdair Fraser's first recording "Portrait of a Scottish Fiddler" is available on CD. Amazon has it as do others. I'll have to chase it up... The fiddler and his recordings are also listed here:
http://www.allmusic.com/
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Sorry, the idea that any Scottish music died out and needed Cape Breton to revive it is romanticized crap. We have a vast range of continuous traditions here. CB music is great stuff, but it's only one variety of Scottish music.
My favourite Scottish fiddler is Paul Anderson - I think he has some recordings available (I've only heard him live).
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Jack Campin
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Yeah, I queried that one too. Though I let it slide because I'm no expert. But it just doesn't make sense. If it were true, then you'd hear the influence of Cape Breton music in the Scottish music we have today, And you don't.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Yes, that one was way of the mark drone. It's a common misunderstanding that Scottish music almost died out, usually because of the disarming act and the effects of the church. There is plenty proof that that was far from the case. Not to mention all the evidence of the piping and oral gaelic tradition there are huge collections of tunes from the mid 1800's (probably when it became possible to print collections of tunes). The Skye, Atholl and Gunn Collections contain thousands of tunes that were 'trad' at the time. William Gunn was born in 1788. These are just three examples so it's highly unlikely they would have collected such a vast collection of tunes if they had all but died out.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niel_Gow
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I must have missed that? ~ focusing more on recommendations than asides. Who said that? ~ Oh! drone! I saw the Cape Breton mention and 'Cranford' and the rest didn't quite sink in till now. Scottish music has set root many places, along with the Scots moving in and bringing their rich traditions with them. The music has continued and evolved and adapted in many climes, including back here, in Britain, and that includes the influence of the muses and some great compositions too. Proof of its health is the continued evolution. The Maritimes and Cape Breton Island, yes, lovely music, but 'principle keepers of the flame'? Maybe, certain aspects of that wider warmth, but not the sole bearer of what can be called 'Scottish' or 'Scotland's' ~ especially since Scotland herself has never fully let go of it and still values it. History of that value exists in the history of archiving and collection, and as survives in its major universities, Aberdeen and Edinburgh. One would hardly make the same claims with regards to Irish music for Chicago, New York, London or Glasgow ~ as 'principle keepers of the (Irish) flame'... But the campfires were kept lit. That is a good thing...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
It was after 1 a.m. as I was nodding off...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Those major Scottish collections touched on by bogman also had their influence on the Maritimes, and it was (is) not unusual to find one of those old books knocking about in a fiddler's house, referred to, and highly prized...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
As I understand it -- bogman, do feel free to correct me -- Scottish piping traditions were altered inexorably by the Victorians, who put it into the military and pipe band context. The militarized style of playing dominated the tradition and the older style became like the sea eagle, incredibly endangered if not extinct in some areas. The diaspora would not have been as affected by the militarization of the music, so Cape Breton piping for example would have retained many of its pre mid-1800s characteristics. Maybe that is the source of the idea that Cape Breton was the "principle keeper of the flame."
That said, the fiddle tradition in Scotland was alive and well throughout the 19th and early 20th centuries. It would have had a fluid relationship with Irish fiddling given that thousands of people migrated between Ireland and Scotland, either permanently or for seasonal work.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I think that's fair comment SilverSpear, though the pipes were also used for dancing, where the playing was probably more of an older stlye. I actually have an old set of pipes that were played at crossroads ceilidh well over 100 years ago. (Often there was nowhere for dances so they were held at the crossroads between villages here in the islands). The military during the Victorian era certainly meant that that the perception of pipes was as a martial instrument, with the exception of pìobaireachd, but it's unlikely that dance music was as rare as is made out now. Probably a good parallel is tartan. It's often thought that the Victorians were largely responsible for the introduction of tartan when in fact they only standardized the weave (again thanks to new technology) and introduced dress tartans etc. Countless paintings going back hundreds of years are proof of this.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
*Proof that the wearing of the tartan kilt went back centuries that is.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I always thought the Kilt was around since about the 1570s (though tartan earlier), and that the standard Highland dress nonsense was invented by Walter Scott for a visit to Edinburgh by Gearge IV, Queen Vics' uncle.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Walter Scott didn't invent highland dress but you're right in that he is often credited with having a lot to do with how we know it today. He wasn't born till the late 1700s so he can't have actually invented it.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Well. That'll teach me to take the word of my Cape Breton-rooted piper friends, and apply it to all Scottish trad music. Mea culpa. Mea maxima culpa.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by drone
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
sorry, I meant the standard Highland dress nonsense as we know it today. The stuff that English people get married in.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Ceol, I only mentioned Aly Bain because the giants often get overlooked, and for people unfamiliar wit Scottish fiddling, he' be a good place to start.
Speaking of the Canadian Marimes, there's an album that deserves a 5-star rating (you are probably familiar with it): it's Party Acadien with Barachois from Prince Edward Island. Simply terrific.
(it's in the recordings section)
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I have to admit that I like it myself if it's worn well. But there are some outrageous frilly efforts out there that are just embarrassing - commonly seen worn by awkward looking wedding pishheads. The most outstandingly mental displays probably came from 19th and 20th century pipers. They had some amazing buckled, feathery stuff with huge mustaches and beards and strutted about like peacocks, but I think they kind of suited it
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Sorry ceolachan, bit off thread there.
Back to fiddling -here's Lauren MacColl, lovely playing
http://www.myspace.com/laurenmaccoll
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I'm glad I'm not alone drone ~ mea culpa! ~ for the next inevitable screw-up on my part...
Just thought folks might like to know one tenuous root to this thread, a recording I dug out and dusted off for a close listen:
"Best of Scottish Fiddle" ~ Arc Music, EUCD 2098
I'm not a believer... :- / I'd bought this awhile back, but it wasn't something that quite clicked with either of us, so we haven't given it much air time. Though I've learned not to generally accept such hype, 'best', there were names on the cover I wasn't familiar with, that got my interest, so I thought, why not, and I think I got it cheap too, for a fiver. It's OK, and I know some folks probably really like what's on this, but not even a toe was moved, and no wry smile either, so it didn't tickle my rhythm bones or cause my heart to skip. I know that nature & nurture affect our views and responses, and I'm pretty aware of what of those elements in me have the greater sway with regard to music. I'm not saying there isn't talent here, but I won't be throwing it in the suitcase with the HHGTTG when the Vogons or some other alien race come calling...
But, I'm glad to say, you lot have helped to keep my faith in Scottish music on the fiddle and I intend to chase up some of those recordings for our listening pleasure. Thanks loads, I really do appreciate it, including the side shoots...
Highland bagpipe next? My all time favourite ~ a little known Cape Breton piper for which recordings are rare, and nothing commercial. He played for dancers, including at crossroads, platforms and in village halls. His playing swung, lifted my feet and made me want to dance. Not piob mhor there, strictly music to move the heart and blood and feet...
Again ~ go raibh mile ma' agat, you're a great lot and any more recommendations, or emails, remain welcome...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Note: The fiddlers and bongoists and keyboardists and assorted others ~ I recognize and nod to their talent ~ but ~ just not, to use the cliche, my cup of tea...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"the most outstandingly mental displays probably came from 19th and 20th century pipers. They had some amazing buckled, feathery stuff with huge mustaches and beards and strutted about like peacocks, but I think they kind of suited it."
I met a group of those guys in the Royal Oak last winter at about 2am.
Ceol,
The group Na Tri Seudan is definitely worth looking up for Highland piping. I saw them at the William Kennedy Festival and they were fantastic. The group is dedicated to reviving the "old" style of piping and play sets Hamish Moore made specifically for that purpose, in A rather than Bb.
Other pipers I'd recommend listening to include Gordon Duncan, Ali Hutton, Ross Ainslie, Angus MacKenzie, and our very own Bogman.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
sorry, I meant the standard Highland dress nonsense as we know it today. The stuff that English people get married in.,
what has this got to do with the music,and the OPs question.
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks Silver! Now I really have to run... Some of the most exciting highland bagpiping I've experienced, remembering as I rush, was Breton...
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Well, I actually wear a kilt from time to time and reckon I look very good. I don't wear the "wedding stuff" but the "everyday" tartan with a tweed jacket etc.
It's still smart enough though and I really dislike the Jacobite shirts and the like. Do it properly or not at all!
# Posted on November 18th 2008 by Jon Jay
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
The most uncompfortable thing about the modern kilt is the sporran ~ UGH! I love the old wrap around, far superior, as are the old natural die tartans... But hey, I'm an oatie at heart. I could live off of porridge, Athole Brose and clutty dumpling ~ and fresh caught mackerel in oat crumb is to die for...
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Hey Johannes, any piercings like Victoria's Albert? I understand he had something to do with the popularization of the modern highland dress...
# Posted on November 19th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
OK, don't know why, but it doesn't seem that anyone has mentioned Bonnie Rideout, and I can't imagine why not. She's got a beautiful style-very expressive, both on the fiddle and viola. Always loved the fiddle, but because of her playing, I now think the viola is my preference-she's very good-have a listen, anyway, and see what you think.
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by bluespiderweb
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
I think Highland dress, done properly, is magnificent. On a stout wearer of maturer years, swelling with pride and suitably hirsute, it makes me think of a capercaillie or some other huge wild turkey-type bird, morphing into something truly grotesque before one's eyes as anger and lust compel it to inflate while performing preposterous antics and noises in front of rivals, females and armchair naturalists watching BBC 2. A vicarious walk on the wild side, indeed!
It would probably took experts in dress manufacture / history / design to devise the first actual sets of Highland dress with all the trimmings. But Walter Scott lived in the Tweed Valley, a busy centre of textile manufacture in his time, so he had access to plenty of information about matters relating to dress.
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
"as anger and lust compel it to inflate while performing preposterous antics and noises in front of rivals" ~ OUCH! Ones piercings must really hurt when that happens...
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Thanks for the contribution bluespiderweb...
# Posted on November 22nd 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Here is a fantastic demonstration of Scottish fiddle from Archie MacAllister....
http://uk.youtube.com/user/footstompin1
# Posted on November 23rd 2008 by Bogman
Re: Scottish Fiddle Music ~ help widen my perspective, please?
Bogman - thanks for the link to Alasdair. A lovely surprise - realised I'd seen him play at Ceolas, when he was a pretty damn fine fiddler at 17 or so... nice chap too.
# Posted on January 23rd 2009 by suesinger