I have been playing fiddle for about 15 years and just recently, after playing a lot more with the band, my left shoulder tension and muscle knots are causing some problems. Any suggstions ? other than a weekly massage !
Oh, boy! Don't get me started. I am a big supporter of the Alexander Technique. I've been taking lessons for about six months and it's totally changed the way I approach my instrument, and indeed, my posture (or, body alignment) in general. I've progressed more on my instrument in the last six months than I thought possible and I'm much more comfortable.
I know there are a lot of schools of thought regarding posture and musicianship and many of them are good. For fiddle I know of that Hungarian dude - can't remember his name, I'm sure someone does - is it Kato something?
I can only speak personally of the Alexander Technique. It's taught at many of the top music schools throughout the world. Some people pass it off as hippy-dippy, but having had many lessons and definitely not being a new-age type person myself I can say that that attitude is not true. It's only considered "alternative" medicine because a doctor didn
If you do not address the problem by massage/physical therapy you may develop "forzen shoulder" or a combination of tendonitis/bursitis and other nasty things. What I did to address this problem was to not only take Alexander technique as another person suggested but I also began taking classical violin lessons because part of the problem was how I was holding the instrument. Also, it tends to get worse if you are not getting enough rest. Good luck
Kev, don't be surprised if after the first couple of times you have a session, it feels like you're learning the instrument all over again -- it'll go away after a bit when you get used to your new posture. I had that "problem" with Feldenkrais at first, it was really weird, but the practitioner did warn me ahead of time that it might happen, so I didn't freak.
Yeah, I'm glad he warned me, because it was really strange, like I'd never held the instrument before, and everything that I knew had all completely flown away. If he hadn't warned me, I probably would have quit the sessions immediately!
Oh my God
I thought I was the only person in the world with this problem. I have an appointment with the Phisio this afternoon after having waited a fortnight for a free slot. I started with this about 2-3 months ago and hoped it would just go away but it's just getting worse by the day. I do use a shoulder rest - always have. Thanks for the info jerball I'll look up that website and give it a go.
Bernard
I do Tai Chi for years now (and - besides walking my husky and take the bicycle for getting to work - it helps me getting all the daily "sit at my desk and work on computers
After the first visit to the Phisio. Seems I have arthritis developing partly due to age, but bad posture hasn't helped the situation. It can be eased but it looks as if my 3 sessions a week will have to be cut down to one. What's worse is the Feakle Festival officially starts Thursday but actually starts tommorow for a week -- Ah well thats life I suppose.
Thankyou for all your advice. I have booked a lesson with a professional violinist (pretty scarey as I do not want to lose my style that has developed after so many years), however I could change my posture slightly if it means pain-free playing. I have also booked an appointment with a bodyworker who places a lot of emphasis on Alexander Technique. I must remember to warm up before gigs, I never do this and should. The body moves with the fiddle as one, there is a balance in this instrument. I love playing sessions and fiddle so a few changes here and there is OK. I am a herbalist and work with an osteopath, so the osteopath is on the case too. There is hope for me yet ! I'll not blame my aches on getting older.
A few years ago my daughter gave up cello playing for 4 or 5 years while she was at university, and then when she moved to Birmingham (UK!) to study nursing she started playing for relaxation and decided have lessons again. She found a cello teacher nearby, a professional lady cellist who had recently retired from the concert platform in order to rear a young family and to teach.
The first thing her new teacher did was to completely deconstruct Hilary's technique, and then to rebuild it from the ground up, a somewhat traumatic experience. Two months later Hilary was playing better than she had ever done before, and at a more advanced level.
So don't worry if a new teacher seems to take you backwards for the first few weeks - it should mean faster progress in the long run.
Trevor
I should perhaps add that cellists as a group don't seem to have quite the postural problems that many fiddle/classical violinists seem to have, but they are just as capable of having similar problems with holding the bow.
In my time I've seen some perfectly dreadful bow holds, typically with locked fingers and wrist. Apart from anything else (e.g. tone production), it doesn't exactly improve coordination between left hand and bow.
Trevor
The fiddle is such an important part of me, what's a few months of postural re-education, if it means no lingering aches and improvement in playing. I think my tutor will be horrified when she see's my bow hold !
Helen, I wonder if your shoulder pain is from an impinged rotator cuff. String players often develop this problem over the years as their upper rotator cuff muscles overdevelop from normal bowing motions. Eventually, the shoulder pinches on the cuff, leading to serious pain and restricted range of motion. Left untreated, you can do permanent damage.
The good news is that there are exercises to bring the shoulder back into balance, allowing the rotator cuff to resume normal function. In my experience, 8 weeks of simple workouts with a piece of elastic did wonders. Any good physical therapist can show you the routine--it's not strenuous and only takes about 15-20 minutes a day.
Best to get an informed opinion--find out what the problem is for certain.
I have just had my first violin lesson from a classical violinist after 15 years of playing self-taught fiddle. What a great time and she loved the Irish reels. I started to learn some Vivaldi and I taught her an Irish jig and talked about ornamentation. I will definitely keep these meetings up, instead of losing my style of playing I hope to expand it by these different techniques. A breakthrough for me. As Osteopathy continues on my shoulder I am becoming far more conscious of finding a balance between body and fiddle. I have not yet found a therapist who knows the elastic exercises for the shoulder. If you have any info on this I would appreciate it.
You might also try a book I skimmed through last week, The Art of Practising, I can't remember the name of the author, but she has some exercises in the book as well as commenting on changing some of the ways violinists hold their instrument (recommending one more to the front with the head more straight forward).
funny, I was just reading about this book on CoMando. The author they had listed was Madeline Bruser and the website I found googling her name was http://www.artofpracticing.com/ but its a piano instruction book. Is this what you were looking at Zina?
Birgit, lurking in Wyoming
The Madeline Bruser book is very good--aimed at pianists, but applicable to any instrument. It's mostly about changing your attitude so you'll relax and enjoy playing. Most of it is common sense for the open minded Irish session musician, but apparently the idea of playing music for *fun* is an epiphany for many classically trained musicians. (Makes me realize that I wouldn't be happy doing a genre of music that required me to be "trained." Sounds too much like obedience school, or boot camp, or learning to use the fry machine at MacDonald's.....
I saved myself some bucks and got Bruser's book and several others (the Joy of Music, For the Love of It, etc.), thru interlibrary loan. They were all worth reading once, but not something I'd refer back to enough to want on my own shelves for long.
lie back on one of those exercise inflatable balls and let your arms and shoulders slowly stretch..this will combat the binding or flexion in your shoulders and pecs...strengthening exercises with very light weights learned from an orthopedist ( i did this as my rotator cuffs and shoulder joints were showing slight deterioration on xray)...or, create your own..look at your posture in a mirror as you play..keep the fiddle level if you can and use a chin rest if one keeps you from elevating your shoulders as you play...do range of motion with your neck daily...david in austin, texas..
Damn! Will, I forgot to look at that book with the bowing stuff that BigDave once rec'd here...Hiya Birgit, long time no hear and stop with the lurking already. Why didn't we see you in Butte? ;) Yes, the Bruser book (it was Emily's) is indeed the one I meant. I think it might also actually be really good for the beginning Irish player who is so obsessed that they actually practise more than is good for both their playing and their body. I'd think it'd help them get into a mindset that will allow them to practise both more satisfyingly and more effectively.
My shoulder is much more relaxed after a few days of stretching and relaxing my muscles, after gigs at the weekend my shoulder seems quite loose. I found a really good book by John Chitty and Mary Muller called 'Energy Exercises', some great stretches in there specific for the neck and shoulders.
Posture and fiddle
Posture and fiddle
I have been playing fiddle for about 15 years and just recently, after playing a lot more with the band, my left shoulder tension and muscle knots are causing some problems. Any suggstions ? other than a weekly massage !
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Ann
Re: Posture and fiddle
A daily massage!
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Posture and fiddle
Oh, boy! Don't get me started. I am a big supporter of the Alexander Technique. I've been taking lessons for about six months and it's totally changed the way I approach my instrument, and indeed, my posture (or, body alignment) in general. I've progressed more on my instrument in the last six months than I thought possible and I'm much more comfortable.
I know there are a lot of schools of thought regarding posture and musicianship and many of them are good. For fiddle I know of that Hungarian dude - can't remember his name, I'm sure someone does - is it Kato something?
I can only speak personally of the Alexander Technique. It's taught at many of the top music schools throughout the world. Some people pass it off as hippy-dippy, but having had many lessons and definitely not being a new-age type person myself I can say that that attitude is not true. It's only considered "alternative" medicine because a doctor didn
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by jerball
Re: Posture and fiddle
If you do not address the problem by massage/physical therapy you may develop "forzen shoulder" or a combination of tendonitis/bursitis and other nasty things. What I did to address this problem was to not only take Alexander technique as another person suggested but I also began taking classical violin lessons because part of the problem was how I was holding the instrument. Also, it tends to get worse if you are not getting enough rest. Good luck
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by boofie
Re: Posture and fiddle
That does it! I just called the Dallas Yoga Center. They have a certified Alexander Technique person on staff. I'll let you know how it goes.
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Posture and fiddle
Kev, don't be surprised if after the first couple of times you have a session, it feels like you're learning the instrument all over again -- it'll go away after a bit when you get used to your new posture. I had that "problem" with Feldenkrais at first, it was really weird, but the practitioner did warn me ahead of time that it might happen, so I didn't freak.
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Posture and fiddle
Thanks Zina! It's good to know what to expect.
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Caoimghgin
Re: Posture and fiddle
Yeah, I'm glad he warned me, because it was really strange, like I'd never held the instrument before, and everything that I knew had all completely flown away. If he hadn't warned me, I probably would have quit the sessions immediately!
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Posture and fiddle
Helen, do you use a shoulder rest?
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by ...
Re: Posture and fiddle
Oh my God
I thought I was the only person in the world with this problem. I have an appointment with the Phisio this afternoon after having waited a fortnight for a free slot. I started with this about 2-3 months ago and hoped it would just go away but it's just getting worse by the day. I do use a shoulder rest - always have. Thanks for the info jerball I'll look up that website and give it a go.
Bernard
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by Bernie
Fiddling is recreation and therapy...
no no, I have that problem, too.
I do Tai Chi for years now (and - besides walking my husky and take the bicycle for getting to work - it helps me getting all the daily "sit at my desk and work on computers
# Posted on August 4th 2003 by crannog
Re: Posture and fiddle
After the first visit to the Phisio. Seems I have arthritis developing partly due to age, but bad posture hasn't helped the situation. It can be eased but it looks as if my 3 sessions a week will have to be cut down to one. What's worse is the Feakle Festival officially starts Thursday but actually starts tommorow for a week -- Ah well thats life I suppose.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Bernie
Re: Posture and fiddle
Thankyou for all your advice. I have booked a lesson with a professional violinist (pretty scarey as I do not want to lose my style that has developed after so many years), however I could change my posture slightly if it means pain-free playing. I have also booked an appointment with a bodyworker who places a lot of emphasis on Alexander Technique. I must remember to warm up before gigs, I never do this and should. The body moves with the fiddle as one, there is a balance in this instrument. I love playing sessions and fiddle so a few changes here and there is OK. I am a herbalist and work with an osteopath, so the osteopath is on the case too. There is hope for me yet ! I'll not blame my aches on getting older.
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Ann
Re: Posture and fiddle
A few years ago my daughter gave up cello playing for 4 or 5 years while she was at university, and then when she moved to Birmingham (UK!) to study nursing she started playing for relaxation and decided have lessons again. She found a cello teacher nearby, a professional lady cellist who had recently retired from the concert platform in order to rear a young family and to teach.
The first thing her new teacher did was to completely deconstruct Hilary's technique, and then to rebuild it from the ground up, a somewhat traumatic experience. Two months later Hilary was playing better than she had ever done before, and at a more advanced level.
So don't worry if a new teacher seems to take you backwards for the first few weeks - it should mean faster progress in the long run.
Trevor
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Posture and fiddle
I should perhaps add that cellists as a group don't seem to have quite the postural problems that many fiddle/classical violinists seem to have, but they are just as capable of having similar problems with holding the bow.
In my time I've seen some perfectly dreadful bow holds, typically with locked fingers and wrist. Apart from anything else (e.g. tone production), it doesn't exactly improve coordination between left hand and bow.
Trevor
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Posture and fiddle
The fiddle is such an important part of me, what's a few months of postural re-education, if it means no lingering aches and improvement in playing. I think my tutor will be horrified when she see's my bow hold !
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Ann
Re: Posture and fiddle
Helen, I wonder if your shoulder pain is from an impinged rotator cuff. String players often develop this problem over the years as their upper rotator cuff muscles overdevelop from normal bowing motions. Eventually, the shoulder pinches on the cuff, leading to serious pain and restricted range of motion. Left untreated, you can do permanent damage.
The good news is that there are exercises to bring the shoulder back into balance, allowing the rotator cuff to resume normal function. In my experience, 8 weeks of simple workouts with a piece of elastic did wonders. Any good physical therapist can show you the routine--it's not strenuous and only takes about 15-20 minutes a day.
Best to get an informed opinion--find out what the problem is for certain.
Good luck!
# Posted on August 5th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Posture and fiddle
I have just had my first violin lesson from a classical violinist after 15 years of playing self-taught fiddle. What a great time and she loved the Irish reels. I started to learn some Vivaldi and I taught her an Irish jig and talked about ornamentation. I will definitely keep these meetings up, instead of losing my style of playing I hope to expand it by these different techniques. A breakthrough for me. As Osteopathy continues on my shoulder I am becoming far more conscious of finding a balance between body and fiddle. I have not yet found a therapist who knows the elastic exercises for the shoulder. If you have any info on this I would appreciate it.
# Posted on August 6th 2003 by Ann
Re: Posture and fiddle
You might also try a book I skimmed through last week, The Art of Practising, I can't remember the name of the author, but she has some exercises in the book as well as commenting on changing some of the ways violinists hold their instrument (recommending one more to the front with the head more straight forward).
# Posted on August 11th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Posture and fiddle
funny, I was just reading about this book on CoMando. The author they had listed was Madeline Bruser and the website I found googling her name was http://www.artofpracticing.com/ but its a piano instruction book. Is this what you were looking at Zina?
Birgit, lurking in Wyoming
# Posted on August 11th 2003 by burek
Re: Posture and fiddle
The Madeline Bruser book is very good--aimed at pianists, but applicable to any instrument. It's mostly about changing your attitude so you'll relax and enjoy playing. Most of it is common sense for the open minded Irish session musician, but apparently the idea of playing music for *fun* is an epiphany for many classically trained musicians. (Makes me realize that I wouldn't be happy doing a genre of music that required me to be "trained." Sounds too much like obedience school, or boot camp, or learning to use the fry machine at MacDonald's.....
I saved myself some bucks and got Bruser's book and several others (the Joy of Music, For the Love of It, etc.), thru interlibrary loan. They were all worth reading once, but not something I'd refer back to enough to want on my own shelves for long.
# Posted on August 11th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Posture and fiddle
lie back on one of those exercise inflatable balls and let your arms and shoulders slowly stretch..this will combat the binding or flexion in your shoulders and pecs...strengthening exercises with very light weights learned from an orthopedist ( i did this as my rotator cuffs and shoulder joints were showing slight deterioration on xray)...or, create your own..look at your posture in a mirror as you play..keep the fiddle level if you can and use a chin rest if one keeps you from elevating your shoulders as you play...do range of motion with your neck daily...david in austin, texas..
# Posted on August 11th 2003 by hugedave
Re: Posture and fiddle
Damn! Will, I forgot to look at that book with the bowing stuff that BigDave once rec'd here...Hiya Birgit, long time no hear and stop with the lurking already. Why didn't we see you in Butte? ;) Yes, the Bruser book (it was Emily's) is indeed the one I meant. I think it might also actually be really good for the beginning Irish player who is so obsessed that they actually practise more than is good for both their playing and their body. I'd think it'd help them get into a mindset that will allow them to practise both more satisfyingly and more effectively.
# Posted on August 11th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Posture and fiddle
My shoulder is much more relaxed after a few days of stretching and relaxing my muscles, after gigs at the weekend my shoulder seems quite loose. I found a really good book by John Chitty and Mary Muller called 'Energy Exercises', some great stretches in there specific for the neck and shoulders.
# Posted on August 12th 2003 by Ann