I have loved, and continue to love, folk/trad./acoustic music since childhood (take it from me, that's a lot of years) and I have no mixed feelings whatsoever about events like this.
There's nothing wrong with people who perform, or work to organize and promote, folk music getting together to share ideas on how to do what they do more effectively. Folk music has to occupy the same world as everyone else, and that world's changed a lot. I think we all pretty much agree that folk/trad music itself has been able to survive by being open to change -- so why not the "business" of folk/trad?
There's long been this perception of folk/trad as being consciously, proudly, even quaintly scruffy and anti-professional. While there is a certain element of truth to that, the reality is that professional folkies have been around for as long as, well, there have been folkies. And the fact is, like it or not, professionalism is necessary in dealing with all the quotidian matters that go into organizing and performing at music events.
For instance, putting together a poorly worded, sloppy press release for an upcoming concert might seem like asserting one's genuine folkiness -- but it's going to turn off arts and entertainment editors and probably quite a few of the public as well. Why not make an effort to promote what you do in a clear, well-stated fashion that will make people -- not all of whom, after all, may be familiar with you or music -- want to come listen?
Part of the attraction of folk/trad for me, and for others, I'm sure, is that it exists on a few different levels. There's the above-ground, where people make their living as full-time performers or organizers/promoters. There's also the below-ground, where we gather in pubs or parlors to play for our own enjoyment, and help to maintain and refresh the music by doing so.
Then there's the "middle-ground" -- that's where all the arguments start, right?
Mind you though, the recent notice to put forward your application for showcasing in New York, as a budding touring ITM act, drove me mad with its jargon. I just didn't want to have anything to do with anyone who would write or speak like that.
A well-worded press release, on the other hand, can be a work of art in itself - my english-grad daughter has been re-writing one for friends of ours - do it well and it gets the attention it deserves.
I imagine this kind of set-up is good for beginners looking for initial advice about complicated things like having a festival, or such, from well-disposed people in a relaxed setting; better than going in without a clue, and getting into all sorts of unforseen problems and trouble.
Nicholas,
Actually, I know of experienced performers/promoters/organizers who go to events like this pretty regularly. Again, it's a way of pooling expertise, broadening one's perspective, expanding knowledge, etc. (I suppose I could just use the word "networking")
I see nothing wrong with this conference. Not every club or festival organizer would want or need to go. Surely it would do some of them good.
Personally I'd be most interested in "your festival as a tourist attraction". Tourists will soon invade Sheffield, Pickering, or Otley ... and marvel at the Morris dancing...
Yorkshire is the Bavaria of England, give or take the economy.
The existence of Sam Smith's Ayingerbrau Lager proves this, or at any rate demonstrates aspirations. And certainly there is a lot of beer in Yorkshire, and funny dancers.
nicholas, might you be writing with experience? I certainly have a couple of tales I could tell
A recent caricature in SOCAN's members magazine showed a band onstage with some guy at a desk where the drummer should be. The desk is of course piled high with paperwork. What appears to be the frontman calls for the crowd's cheers for BOB, AT THE PAPERWORK!!!
The "middle ground" sts refers to seems to indeed be a source of argument. On the one hand, there's the question of "right, who do you think you are?" and on the other, "isn't part of the tradition actually putting it forward in it's best light and doing your best, and what's it all worth anyways?..".
Certainly some dilema always rears it's ugly head, but if this music is to live in it's time, some complexes must be shed. Allowing and encourageing ITM as a profession will only broaden the Irish and Celtic cultural influence in the world. I tell the (french) people that hire me that this music is to the Irish diaspora what litterature is to the whole of "Francophonia".
The way it works here is very interesting. All the various provinces and states fall under a large umbrella that meets yearly at the North American Folk Alliance, there are others as well but I think that's the main one. Each province/state has their own conference at which the committees of various local folk clubs attend so it's a big pyramid of organisation. At the top are the big three Canadian festivals (Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa) and a couple of dozen big efforts from the States. Each conference offers official showcases that can be won by lottery, songwriting competition, word of mouth etc and then there are the various record lables who will buy a showcase room to feature their acts and try and sell stage time to non affiliates followed up by the indies who sleep ten to a room, put up a bath tub full of beer as bait and start playing hoping to get some attention. People are busking inside the elevators, corridors, doorways and kitchens hoping to get noticed. The stakes are huge. The Winnipeg festival for example has a budget of tens of millions of dollars to make it happen. It has one artistic director who has virtual cart blanche say over the committee. It is more or less the same for the others. The combined festivals budget potential runs into the hundreds of millions just for North America and everyone wants a slice. They come from all over the world. If one director says that they like an act the others generally follow suit. If that happens the act is made, they will be touring and gigging solidly for the next couple of years. Festivals don't pay that much per se but the potential to sell product is unlimited. I know of indie acts that have sold up to 2 000 cds at one festival alone on "buzz" factor.
It's a crazy and sometimes sad state of affairs but the money is out there funded by state, provincial and federal governments and the sharks have it circled. If nobody goes for it the middleman takes it all. Well, they do anyway. The Australian government has tapped into this and sends a handful of acts every year, paying for flights and accommodation and every year they get signed up for a couple of years worth of gigs. The tax returns alone far outweigh the initial outlay.
The very sad thing is seeing the floors and walls of these hotels afterwards. Tons and tons of abandoned fliers, posters and promo cds on every floor. The carbon footprint is enormous which, judging by the vast majority of folk acts on the circuit speaks volumes for the current state of affairs in the folk industry.
@Fanning - No, I wasn't writing from experience of the kind of fora / get-togethers being described at the top of this thread. I was just guessing - guessing that people organising events or marketing their music (things I've never done), for instance, might easily find themselves out of their depth and maybe restricted, ripped off or penalised as a result of not knowing the ropes beforehand. I imagine a folkie / traddie practitioner or sympathiser with adequate experience would be a pretty good person to hear or to approach for advice in a "folk industry conference" setting, and could give someone a much better overall package of advice than, say, a council official here and an accountant there, these having no interest in one's project as such.
Though I suppose it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that some amiable folkie adviser could give completely wrong advice and land its followers in the quicksand...
Sorry, nicholas, I should have been more precise indeed:
I wasn't writing that you may or might not have attended such conferences as specified above, but rather upon approaching festivals and folkie-get-togethers in which are produced various bands (among which one may be participant to).
The administrative and legal framework involved in playing gigs or such events as festivals is different for every country, and complicated, depending on the country in question.
Certain considerations as might arise from playing in one place or another go a long way into assuring peace of mind when performing at any given event. Learning how to deal with it is not a bad idea to me.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you here!
Just to clear up a bit of inaccuracy in Patkiwi's mostly correct description of the North American Folk Alliance, there's not nearly as much organizational structure as that. There's several thousand members (individuals and small or large organizations such as coffeehouses, festivals, booking agencies, record companies, etc.)
At the annual conference, time has generally been set aside for people to gather in groups broken down by geographical regions to discuss their regional issues.
Maybe about ten years ago, a few people in Pennsylvania (maybe at one of these regional breakout sessions) decided to hold their own small conference, called the Northeast Regional, in addition to the big International one. About five years ago, a group from Texas followed suit, calling it the Southwest Regional. In the past two or three years, there's been regional conferences started in the Far West, the Mid West, and the Southeast. I'm not sure about Canada, but I'm almost certain there's not one in every province.
These conferences, and the regional organizations that produce them, arose when individual members of the international organization decided to create them. There's no real organizational structure behind all of this, only a few people who said, "let's do a conference like that on a smaller scale in our own area." The big organization had existed for a decade before any of this started.
Thanks GaryAMartin,
My intent was to give a general view of the process as observed by me by my one or two attendances. It's not as cut and dried as it seems and I stand to be corrected on all counts but you get the general picture.
Folk "Industry" Conference
Folk "Industry" Conference
I suppose it's "necessary" but I assume quite a lot of people would have mixed feelings about this sort of thing.....
http://www.folkarts-england.org/ConferencesAndTraining.html
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
All attendants will be glued to their Blackberries, no doubts.
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by jwvansteenwyk
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
I have loved, and continue to love, folk/trad./acoustic music since childhood (take it from me, that's a lot of years) and I have no mixed feelings whatsoever about events like this.
There's nothing wrong with people who perform, or work to organize and promote, folk music getting together to share ideas on how to do what they do more effectively. Folk music has to occupy the same world as everyone else, and that world's changed a lot. I think we all pretty much agree that folk/trad music itself has been able to survive by being open to change -- so why not the "business" of folk/trad?
There's long been this perception of folk/trad as being consciously, proudly, even quaintly scruffy and anti-professional. While there is a certain element of truth to that, the reality is that professional folkies have been around for as long as, well, there have been folkies. And the fact is, like it or not, professionalism is necessary in dealing with all the quotidian matters that go into organizing and performing at music events.
For instance, putting together a poorly worded, sloppy press release for an upcoming concert might seem like asserting one's genuine folkiness -- but it's going to turn off arts and entertainment editors and probably quite a few of the public as well. Why not make an effort to promote what you do in a clear, well-stated fashion that will make people -- not all of whom, after all, may be familiar with you or music -- want to come listen?
Part of the attraction of folk/trad for me, and for others, I'm sure, is that it exists on a few different levels. There's the above-ground, where people make their living as full-time performers or organizers/promoters. There's also the below-ground, where we gather in pubs or parlors to play for our own enjoyment, and help to maintain and refresh the music by doing so.
Then there's the "middle-ground" -- that's where all the arguments start, right?
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by sts
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Mind you though, the recent notice to put forward your application for showcasing in New York, as a budding touring ITM act, drove me mad with its jargon. I just didn't want to have anything to do with anyone who would write or speak like that.
A well-worded press release, on the other hand, can be a work of art in itself - my english-grad daughter has been re-writing one for friends of ours - do it well and it gets the attention it deserves.
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
I imagine this kind of set-up is good for beginners looking for initial advice about complicated things like having a festival, or such, from well-disposed people in a relaxed setting; better than going in without a clue, and getting into all sorts of unforseen problems and trouble.
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Nicholas,
Actually, I know of experienced performers/promoters/organizers who go to events like this pretty regularly. Again, it's a way of pooling expertise, broadening one's perspective, expanding knowledge, etc. (I suppose I could just use the word "networking")
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by sts
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
I see nothing wrong with this conference. Not every club or festival organizer would want or need to go. Surely it would do some of them good.
Personally I'd be most interested in "your festival as a tourist attraction". Tourists will soon invade Sheffield, Pickering, or Otley ... and marvel at the Morris dancing...
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by kuec
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Yorkshire is the Bavaria of England, give or take the economy.
The existence of Sam Smith's Ayingerbrau Lager proves this, or at any rate demonstrates aspirations. And certainly there is a lot of beer in Yorkshire, and funny dancers.
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
But the sausages are better in Yorkshire. (The proper ones, that is.)
# Posted on October 29th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Who else cringed at the phrase, "Folk Sector"?
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Thank you TomB-R for bringing it up.
Thank you for posting your opinion sts.
nicholas, might you be writing with experience? I certainly have a couple of tales I could tell
A recent caricature in SOCAN's members magazine showed a band onstage with some guy at a desk where the drummer should be. The desk is of course piled high with paperwork. What appears to be the frontman calls for the crowd's cheers for BOB, AT THE PAPERWORK!!!
The "middle ground" sts refers to seems to indeed be a source of argument. On the one hand, there's the question of "right, who do you think you are?" and on the other, "isn't part of the tradition actually putting it forward in it's best light and doing your best, and what's it all worth anyways?..".
Certainly some dilema always rears it's ugly head, but if this music is to live in it's time, some complexes must be shed. Allowing and encourageing ITM as a profession will only broaden the Irish and Celtic cultural influence in the world. I tell the (french) people that hire me that this music is to the Irish diaspora what litterature is to the whole of "Francophonia".
This gets their attention for some reason.
Anyway, that's my two bits for tonight.
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by Fanning
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
BTW, I'm Plastic Paddy and proud of it!
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by Fanning
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
The way it works here is very interesting. All the various provinces and states fall under a large umbrella that meets yearly at the North American Folk Alliance, there are others as well but I think that's the main one. Each province/state has their own conference at which the committees of various local folk clubs attend so it's a big pyramid of organisation. At the top are the big three Canadian festivals (Calgary, Winnipeg and Ottawa) and a couple of dozen big efforts from the States. Each conference offers official showcases that can be won by lottery, songwriting competition, word of mouth etc and then there are the various record lables who will buy a showcase room to feature their acts and try and sell stage time to non affiliates followed up by the indies who sleep ten to a room, put up a bath tub full of beer as bait and start playing hoping to get some attention. People are busking inside the elevators, corridors, doorways and kitchens hoping to get noticed. The stakes are huge. The Winnipeg festival for example has a budget of tens of millions of dollars to make it happen. It has one artistic director who has virtual cart blanche say over the committee. It is more or less the same for the others. The combined festivals budget potential runs into the hundreds of millions just for North America and everyone wants a slice. They come from all over the world. If one director says that they like an act the others generally follow suit. If that happens the act is made, they will be touring and gigging solidly for the next couple of years. Festivals don't pay that much per se but the potential to sell product is unlimited. I know of indie acts that have sold up to 2 000 cds at one festival alone on "buzz" factor.
It's a crazy and sometimes sad state of affairs but the money is out there funded by state, provincial and federal governments and the sharks have it circled. If nobody goes for it the middleman takes it all. Well, they do anyway. The Australian government has tapped into this and sends a handful of acts every year, paying for flights and accommodation and every year they get signed up for a couple of years worth of gigs. The tax returns alone far outweigh the initial outlay.
The very sad thing is seeing the floors and walls of these hotels afterwards. Tons and tons of abandoned fliers, posters and promo cds on every floor. The carbon footprint is enormous which, judging by the vast majority of folk acts on the circuit speaks volumes for the current state of affairs in the folk industry.
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
@Fanning - No, I wasn't writing from experience of the kind of fora / get-togethers being described at the top of this thread. I was just guessing - guessing that people organising events or marketing their music (things I've never done), for instance, might easily find themselves out of their depth and maybe restricted, ripped off or penalised as a result of not knowing the ropes beforehand. I imagine a folkie / traddie practitioner or sympathiser with adequate experience would be a pretty good person to hear or to approach for advice in a "folk industry conference" setting, and could give someone a much better overall package of advice than, say, a council official here and an accountant there, these having no interest in one's project as such.
Though I suppose it's not beyond the bounds of possibility that some amiable folkie adviser could give completely wrong advice and land its followers in the quicksand...
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Sorry, nicholas, I should have been more precise indeed:
I wasn't writing that you may or might not have attended such conferences as specified above, but rather upon approaching festivals and folkie-get-togethers in which are produced various bands (among which one may be participant to).
The administrative and legal framework involved in playing gigs or such events as festivals is different for every country, and complicated, depending on the country in question.
Certain considerations as might arise from playing in one place or another go a long way into assuring peace of mind when performing at any given event. Learning how to deal with it is not a bad idea to me.
Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with you here!
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by Fanning
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Just to clear up a bit of inaccuracy in Patkiwi's mostly correct description of the North American Folk Alliance, there's not nearly as much organizational structure as that. There's several thousand members (individuals and small or large organizations such as coffeehouses, festivals, booking agencies, record companies, etc.)
At the annual conference, time has generally been set aside for people to gather in groups broken down by geographical regions to discuss their regional issues.
Maybe about ten years ago, a few people in Pennsylvania (maybe at one of these regional breakout sessions) decided to hold their own small conference, called the Northeast Regional, in addition to the big International one. About five years ago, a group from Texas followed suit, calling it the Southwest Regional. In the past two or three years, there's been regional conferences started in the Far West, the Mid West, and the Southeast. I'm not sure about Canada, but I'm almost certain there's not one in every province.
These conferences, and the regional organizations that produce them, arose when individual members of the international organization decided to create them. There's no real organizational structure behind all of this, only a few people who said, "let's do a conference like that on a smaller scale in our own area." The big organization had existed for a decade before any of this started.
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Folk "Industry" Conference
Thanks GaryAMartin,
My intent was to give a general view of the process as observed by me by my one or two attendances. It's not as cut and dried as it seems and I stand to be corrected on all counts but you get the general picture.
# Posted on October 30th 2008 by Patkiwi