So yes, I've seen the many threads of newbies asking for flute buying advice, but I have some specific questions. I understand much of the quality of the flute sound is due to the player, but I'm only going to buy this one flute so I want to do it right.
First, the relevant info:
I play mostly by myself, so doesn't need to be terribly loud, but I don't really mind if it is loud, it's just not necessary.
I live in the mountains of the SW of N America, which means that I inhabit in a normally dry climate with annual very wet seasons. It makes me leery of buying a wooden instrument from some nice wet place like Ireland and having it shipped here. I'm willing to put the time into taking care of a wooden instrument (and already do with my others) but don't want a new flute to self-destruct on my. This probably means I need an unlined headjoint, I would guess.
And most of all, all of my favorite tunes are airs, laments, slow reels kind of things.
So, I want a flute with a really rich, fat, resonant tone well suited to slow music and able to survive my climate. It also needs to be around or under $600. I don't really need a performer level flute, just something that will sound lovely and is well-made.
Can you help me figure out what might be most appropriate? I live out here in the boonies, and don't have the opportunity to try out a lot of different instruments, so could use some experienced ears in figuring it out.
A delrin flute should meet your needs. There are some very good ones made by Copley and Boegly, or M & E. They cost under $ 500.00. Look at www.theirishflutestore.com
Does delrin have the rich sound appropriate for slow tunes? It's hard for me to tell from the recordings I've heard. While I would prefer wood, I understand delrin is a very practical choice.
Hi Sweetbriar-
You'll get some differing opinions on this, so here's my two cents. I wouldn't worry where the flute is shipped from. I've had wooden flutes shipped from Australia, all over U.S., and Ireland. Never a problem with lined or unlined headjoints. As long as the flute is well-made and you take care of it, it'll be fine. Living in the SW USA you'd want to keep it in an enclosed container during the dry months to keep it at a constant humidity. The SW gets incredibly dry. You keep it at a constant humidity, it'll be fine. If you want a wooden flute under US$600 you can get a Copley wooden flute, unlined and w/o a tuning slide. It's plenty loud and versatile. You can also look at Casey Burns' Folk Flute out of boxwood, blackwood, or mopane.
If you'll worry too much about taking care of wood, go for a Delrin flute from Copley or Forbes. The Forbes has a tuning slide, which is an extra bonus. Best of luck and many happy years of playing.
BTW-If you can save up a few more hundred bucks many more doors open to you in the flute world.
I've played a lot of wood flutes recently, so I think I know whereof I speak. I am a relative beginner (about a year now) and have tried a variety of them. I owned a Copley with a lined slide and it was very nice and played great, but I was worried about cracking so sold it to get a delrin Cochran and a Sweet Resonance Laminate. Both were great flutes, but then I tried a McGee Grey Larsen Preferred keyless with the minimum disruption tenon in blackwood. Well, it blew me away and I went back to wood! I have since purchased a M&E polymer and like it a lot as well. Oh yeah, I briefly had a Dixon polymer in there as well.
If I lived where you live, I would get a polymer flute - period. They play very much like the wood versions and there are NO worries about cracking. If you can pop for a few more bucks, you can even get a McGee GLP in polymer, but he charges the same as for his wood version.
You should keep an eye out on the Chiff and Fipple site - there are almost always decent flutes for sale there. In fact a McGee like mine just sold for an incredible price.
(Sorry about the extra bit above - I didn't see it when I posted)
Addition: I just noticed that a delrin McGee has been re-listed on eBay with an opening bid of $650 and a buy-it-now of $750. The item number is: 250311885375
What celtic marine said is right on, I think.
If you have a flute of really dense wood - African Blackwood is the norm these days, though I gather cocus is sometimes available again - the rate of moisture permeation is very, very slow. So yes, you should do something to keep it a bit moister in the dry months, but that's really not hard to do. You should be keeping it in a good box in any case, wherever you are. So I can't tell you what to get, but don't worry about wood provided it's one of the standard dense ones.
Don't know too much about where you live, but a flute played regularly is pretty well hydrated - the problem comes when you don't play for a while and then have a big long four hour session on the flute...
Actually, a lot of cracks probably happen due to shifts in size around the joints - if you notice a joint being tight, do not try to either assemble or disassemble it with force. Either change the wrapping of the tenon (before assembly) or wait until the flute returns naturally to its' normal state (overnight?) before disassembling.
Do not use cork grease to try to make a tight joint fit.
Do keep your flute disassembled in a case. And that inside a tupperware box or plastic bag if you are really worried about dryness. One flute pro from Arizona that I know uses the tupperware solution, at least when travelling.
Do mop out your flute before putting it away.
Do play regularly. When the flute is new follow some kind of gradual breaking in program to hydrate it. e.g. 10 minutes per day for a couple of weeks climbing linearly to about an hour after a month. After that, you're pretty much as hydraed as you are going to get. Treat a flute that has not been played for a number of months as if it was new.
Generally, I like wood and feel that the relatively small amount of care invovled is worth it. I don't however live in an area with wild swings in humidity.
I'd suggest Casey Burns standard model (in any of the woods offered). It is only slightly more expensive than the Folk Flute model, but has the added advantage of being upgradeable later (you can have tuning slide, rings, and keys added). I have a standard model in Mopane (without any extras) and I really like it. I live in central Oklahoma (which has wide swings in temperature and humidity).
Wooden flutes are very tough if well cared for, but they do sometimes crack - even when they're kept at the right humidity and played regularly. If you're OK with the fact that your wooden flute might crack, and if you would really prefer wood, get a wooden flute.
That said, a polymer flute won't ever crack and the biggest impact on how a flute sounds is you, the player.
My flute teacher won the all Ireland senior division slow aire competition back in the 80s on an antique polymer flute.
Thanks for all the replies, they've certainly been helpful. My choice was made a bit easier by the fact that my rosewood flute has developed a hairline crack at the top ring just today despite being well oiled, well played and well humidified. Sigh. Delrin it is, then.
I especially appreciate your comment, Eric, about your teacher winning the slow aire competition with a polymer flute. A Copley is looking really good right now.
Tom Doorley played a delrin Seery for years on tour with Danu. I sat next to him (he was standing, actually, and jumping with the music) at a session once and the Seery was a cannon in his hands.
The John Forbes delrins are great flutes, and I'd bet Copley's is terrific too--Dave's blackwood flutes are excellent (was my second flute, so I suspect his delrin sound as good. Easier to fill and sweeter tone than the Seery I started out with.
I wouldn't write off wood, just because one flute developed a hairline crack. A) it can be repaired, and B) it doesn't mean another flute will crack. Go for blackwood or mopane, and you should be fine.
It's not hard to keep a wooden flute at relatively constant humidity year-round. I've had a wooden flute while living in the rather distinct climates of Pennsylvania, northern California, Wisconsin, and southern Indiana, in addition to foreign and domestic trips, with nary an incident.
The Copley is a very nice flute--but I'd recommend the wooden model (without a tuning slide). Also in your price range, and very nice, are Casey Burns all-wood models. Of his models, I like the Rudall-style the best. Either of these would be grand flutes, and wood is much nicer than plastic--aesthetically, environmentally, and tonally.
[By the way, if you're looking for a *really* fat, resonant, creamy tone (and you're not looking to play in sessions and such), a flute pitched in C might be the ticket. (Although it'll have a slightly wider finger stretch.) Copley and Burns both make flutes in C.]
I was thinking that, too. Rosewood's grain might be more vulnerable to cracks than blackwood. And cracks can be repaired--they're not a death knell.
Montana goes through big swings, from minus 50 F. to 110 F., and 100% to 10% relative humidity, sometimes in a matter of hours. I've kept wooden (blackwood) flutes here with no problems, as have other players. Olwells, Hammys, Copley's, Burns, and some old (c. 1850) flutes all survive here just fine with a minimum of reasonable care.
I think I've got it figured out, thanks everyone for all your input. I believe I'll be going with a Copley for now. I'll let you know how it turns out.
But don't worry, I haven't written off wood... we'll see about something blackwood sometime in the future.
Flute Choices
Flute Choices
So yes, I've seen the many threads of newbies asking for flute buying advice, but I have some specific questions. I understand much of the quality of the flute sound is due to the player, but I'm only going to buy this one flute so I want to do it right.
First, the relevant info:
I play mostly by myself, so doesn't need to be terribly loud, but I don't really mind if it is loud, it's just not necessary.
I live in the mountains of the SW of N America, which means that I inhabit in a normally dry climate with annual very wet seasons. It makes me leery of buying a wooden instrument from some nice wet place like Ireland and having it shipped here. I'm willing to put the time into taking care of a wooden instrument (and already do with my others) but don't want a new flute to self-destruct on my. This probably means I need an unlined headjoint, I would guess.
And most of all, all of my favorite tunes are airs, laments, slow reels kind of things.
So, I want a flute with a really rich, fat, resonant tone well suited to slow music and able to survive my climate. It also needs to be around or under $600. I don't really need a performer level flute, just something that will sound lovely and is well-made.
Can you help me figure out what might be most appropriate? I live out here in the boonies, and don't have the opportunity to try out a lot of different instruments, so could use some experienced ears in figuring it out.
Thank you in advance,
~Kiva
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Sweetbriar
Re: Flute Choices
A delrin flute should meet your needs. There are some very good ones made by Copley and Boegly, or M & E. They cost under $ 500.00. Look at www.theirishflutestore.com
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by gerardo1000
Re: Flute Choices
Does delrin have the rich sound appropriate for slow tunes? It's hard for me to tell from the recordings I've heard. While I would prefer wood, I understand delrin is a very practical choice.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Sweetbriar
Re: Flute Choices
Hi Sweetbriar-
You'll get some differing opinions on this, so here's my two cents. I wouldn't worry where the flute is shipped from. I've had wooden flutes shipped from Australia, all over U.S., and Ireland. Never a problem with lined or unlined headjoints. As long as the flute is well-made and you take care of it, it'll be fine. Living in the SW USA you'd want to keep it in an enclosed container during the dry months to keep it at a constant humidity. The SW gets incredibly dry. You keep it at a constant humidity, it'll be fine. If you want a wooden flute under US$600 you can get a Copley wooden flute, unlined and w/o a tuning slide. It's plenty loud and versatile. You can also look at Casey Burns' Folk Flute out of boxwood, blackwood, or mopane.
If you'll worry too much about taking care of wood, go for a Delrin flute from Copley or Forbes. The Forbes has a tuning slide, which is an extra bonus. Best of luck and many happy years of playing.
BTW-If you can save up a few more hundred bucks many more doors open to you in the flute world.
~Sean
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by celtic marine
Re: Flute Choices
I've played a lot of wood flutes recently, so I think I know whereof I speak. I am a relative beginner (about a year now) and have tried a variety of them. I owned a Copley with a lined slide and it was very nice and played great, but I was worried about cracking so sold it to get a delrin Cochran and a Sweet Resonance Laminate. Both were great flutes, but then I tried a McGee Grey Larsen Preferred keyless with the minimum disruption tenon in blackwood. Well, it blew me away and I went back to wood! I have since purchased a M&E polymer and like it a lot as well. Oh yeah, I briefly had a Dixon polymer in there as well.
If I lived where you live, I would get a polymer flute - period. They play very much like the wood versions and there are NO worries about cracking. If you can pop for a few more bucks, you can even get a McGee GLP in polymer, but he charges the same as for his wood version.
You should keep an eye out on the Chiff and Fipple site - there are almost always decent flutes for sale there. In fact a McGee like mine just sold for an incredible price.
Feel free to PM if you have more questions...
Pat
I liked that a lot, but go
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by plunk111
Re: Flute Choices
(Sorry about the extra bit above - I didn't see it when I posted)
Addition: I just noticed that a delrin McGee has been re-listed on eBay with an opening bid of $650 and a buy-it-now of $750. The item number is: 250311885375
Good Luck!
Pat
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by plunk111
Re: Flute Choices
What celtic marine said is right on, I think.
If you have a flute of really dense wood - African Blackwood is the norm these days, though I gather cocus is sometimes available again - the rate of moisture permeation is very, very slow. So yes, you should do something to keep it a bit moister in the dry months, but that's really not hard to do. You should be keeping it in a good box in any case, wherever you are. So I can't tell you what to get, but don't worry about wood provided it's one of the standard dense ones.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Alex Wilding
Re: Flute Choices
Don't know too much about where you live, but a flute played regularly is pretty well hydrated - the problem comes when you don't play for a while and then have a big long four hour session on the flute...
Actually, a lot of cracks probably happen due to shifts in size around the joints - if you notice a joint being tight, do not try to either assemble or disassemble it with force. Either change the wrapping of the tenon (before assembly) or wait until the flute returns naturally to its' normal state (overnight?) before disassembling.
Do not use cork grease to try to make a tight joint fit.
Do keep your flute disassembled in a case. And that inside a tupperware box or plastic bag if you are really worried about dryness. One flute pro from Arizona that I know uses the tupperware solution, at least when travelling.
Do mop out your flute before putting it away.
Do play regularly. When the flute is new follow some kind of gradual breaking in program to hydrate it. e.g. 10 minutes per day for a couple of weeks climbing linearly to about an hour after a month. After that, you're pretty much as hydraed as you are going to get. Treat a flute that has not been played for a number of months as if it was new.
Generally, I like wood and feel that the relatively small amount of care invovled is worth it. I don't however live in an area with wild swings in humidity.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Flute Choices
I'd suggest Casey Burns standard model (in any of the woods offered). It is only slightly more expensive than the Folk Flute model, but has the added advantage of being upgradeable later (you can have tuning slide, rings, and keys added). I have a standard model in Mopane (without any extras) and I really like it. I live in central Oklahoma (which has wide swings in temperature and humidity).
Good Luck,
Jason
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by jasonlburnfield
Re: Flute Choices
Wooden flutes are very tough if well cared for, but they do sometimes crack - even when they're kept at the right humidity and played regularly. If you're OK with the fact that your wooden flute might crack, and if you would really prefer wood, get a wooden flute.
That said, a polymer flute won't ever crack and the biggest impact on how a flute sounds is you, the player.
My flute teacher won the all Ireland senior division slow aire competition back in the 80s on an antique polymer flute.
Eric
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Jayhawk
Re: Flute Choices
Thanks for all the replies, they've certainly been helpful. My choice was made a bit easier by the fact that my rosewood flute has developed a hairline crack at the top ring just today despite being well oiled, well played and well humidified. Sigh. Delrin it is, then.
I especially appreciate your comment, Eric, about your teacher winning the slow aire competition with a polymer flute. A Copley is looking really good right now.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Sweetbriar
Re: Flute Choices
Tom Doorley played a delrin Seery for years on tour with Danu. I sat next to him (he was standing, actually, and jumping with the music) at a session once and the Seery was a cannon in his hands.
The John Forbes delrins are great flutes, and I'd bet Copley's is terrific too--Dave's blackwood flutes are excellent (was my second flute, so I suspect his delrin sound as good. Easier to fill and sweeter tone than the Seery I started out with.
# Posted on October 22nd 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Flute Choices
I wouldn't write off wood, just because one flute developed a hairline crack. A) it can be repaired, and B) it doesn't mean another flute will crack. Go for blackwood or mopane, and you should be fine.
It's not hard to keep a wooden flute at relatively constant humidity year-round. I've had a wooden flute while living in the rather distinct climates of Pennsylvania, northern California, Wisconsin, and southern Indiana, in addition to foreign and domestic trips, with nary an incident.
The Copley is a very nice flute--but I'd recommend the wooden model (without a tuning slide). Also in your price range, and very nice, are Casey Burns all-wood models. Of his models, I like the Rudall-style the best. Either of these would be grand flutes, and wood is much nicer than plastic--aesthetically, environmentally, and tonally.
[By the way, if you're looking for a *really* fat, resonant, creamy tone (and you're not looking to play in sessions and such), a flute pitched in C might be the ticket. (Although it'll have a slightly wider finger stretch.) Copley and Burns both make flutes in C.]
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by mcswiss
Re: Flute Choices
I was thinking that, too. Rosewood's grain might be more vulnerable to cracks than blackwood. And cracks can be repaired--they're not a death knell.
Montana goes through big swings, from minus 50 F. to 110 F., and 100% to 10% relative humidity, sometimes in a matter of hours. I've kept wooden (blackwood) flutes here with no problems, as have other players. Olwells, Hammys, Copley's, Burns, and some old (c. 1850) flutes all survive here just fine with a minimum of reasonable care.
# Posted on October 23rd 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Flute Choices
I think I've got it figured out, thanks everyone for all your input. I believe I'll be going with a Copley for now. I'll let you know how it turns out.
But don't worry, I haven't written off wood... we'll see about something blackwood sometime in the future.
# Posted on October 24th 2008 by Sweetbriar