For melody 'n' accompaniment rather than pure melody, I find my harp works well with sustained melody instruments such as the fiddle / whistle / flute and of course the voice - I think it's the combination of sustained and plucked which does the magic.
i find IMO that for sessions the best combination involves not having piano accordion or harp as i find that their pitches don't suit, also i just dont really like them.
there has to be more fiddles than flutes in a session otherwise it has a bad effect on the sound. flutes are fine on their own but when you have like 5 flutes maybe 2 fiddles it doesnt work (this is from a playing perspective). there has to be some sort of foil to the sound which i provided by lots of fiddles. maybe thorw in an accordion as well. there is really any combination depedning on what you like but there really does have to be more fiddles tha flutes if there are both in a session. im defo not slagging off flutes, i know plenty of flute players who agree.
Fiddle and piano-accordion in incarnations like Silly Wizard - but especially in Klezmer. Two players from Moishe's Bagel came to a Durham session fairly recently - best one ever!
Hmm, my experience is the opposite of tradmoosic's - flutes are so quiet that when there are more fiddles than flutes, I usually can't hear the flutes. (It might be different for musicians who aren't playing loud instruments that sit right under their ears, though.)
And ditto to nicholas' last line: some of my favourite arrangements have consisted of a single melody instrument and bodhran. In large sessions, I generally find bodhrans redundant, distracting, irrelevant, or some combination of the three, but as backup for fiddle, whistle, or flute, they can be a fantastic addition.
I like instruments that are well balanced together. If you have a loud set of pipes next to a quiet mandolin, the balance isn't good. I also like a variety of reeds, wind, bowed strings, and plucked strings. So the ideal session for me might be fiddle, flute, button box, banjo, bouzouki, bodhran.
Things that annoy me in sessions are anything that muddy the sound... This can include just about any instrument, especially if it has got a lot of sustain, like a harp or hammered dulcimer. But it all depends on the playing, of course...
But whatever... It's more about the crack than the music anyway.
pipes=coffee, fiddle=heavy cream, concertina=sugar
best combo ever-delicious!
to continue the analogy, I might say that the bouzouki=what is often called here"a shot in the dark" i.e. a shot of esspresso in your coffee. Fine for some, but i like mine better without...
cheers, and good morning to ye,
pipewatcher
"A shot in the dark" reminds me of one called "Triple Depth Charge". It was a pint of Guinness with triple rum in it. I've never tried it but a co-worker drank it often enough, and said it felt quite innocuous till it - or its brothers and sisters - made your legs give way.
The classic combinations are (in no particular order:
fiddle & pipes
pipes & flute
flute & fiddle
All three is pretty good too, for the big sound. But to be able to really hear the music, all of it, two if better.
Sessions are different, it all depends on the quality of the players. Yes, multiple futes more often sound bad, but that's only 'cause most flute players struggle with their intonation. Muliple good flute players is terrific. The fiddle is unique in that it's really the only instrument that was designed to sound good with lots of them. I like four or five good fiddles and the viola.
Good to see level headed opinions, I think any combination can be great and it is determined by the ability of the players in terms of being able to listen, to what other people are doing and find the common ground ,them it really settles down into a great sound.I suppose it,s a bit like life ,it pay,s to listen.
I love any combination of instruments in which the musicians listen to each other and accommodate each others' playing. I think a willingness to listen and play together, adjusting to each other's style and rhythm, is the key to a good session. Regardless of the instrumental mix, when musicians are, as my dad says, 'more in combat than in harmony', it's a recipe for disaster.
I love that last sentiment. I didn't think the original poster of this thread was talking specifically about sessions, but the last point reminds me of a gathering we had to play music to someone who is not now (alas) able to play any more, but still enjoys listening. So we all had a combination of playing together and playing in various combinations. It was lovely - all because it was to honour this person who meant so much to us.
Don't think its too much to do with instrumentation. If you are lucky enough to get musicians who are (excuse the pun) "in tune" with one & another (not in the literal sense) then the magics going to happen. Rare event unfortunately.
Eiscir
I once heard a sort of impromptu band with two (yes, two) harps and a bodhrán, all brilliant musicians, and nothing else. It sounded surprisingly brilliant.
Fiddle & flute - great - my dream combination
Flute & Bodhran - good for trying to emulate Conal O'Grada... (I wish!)
Flute & smallpipes - need to play the flute a bit quieter and work around the drones creatively. I prefer A smallpipes.
(Yes, I'm a flute player...)
And flutes aren't quiet, flute players are - sometimes a blessing in this world of questionable intonation (yes, I do mean mine...). I can play my flutes quite loudly, even the supposd quiet one (McGee GLP).
Often a match is not just about tone colour, but also about simple facts of balanced loudness and tuning. Helps if all the instruments involved are capable of different volume and tuning levels.
Once backing is added, then one guitar played rhythmically is usually my preference. i.e as much providing the rhythmic framework as the harmonic.
"If you have a loud set of pipes next to a quiet mandolin, the balance isn't good."
Actually, I beg to differ. It probably depends to some extent where you are positioned in relation to each instrument, but I love playing mandolin together with pipes and, to me as the player, the balance is perfect - the sound of the pipes seems to somehow *reinforce*, rather than obscure, the sound of the mandolin. Perhaps the piper, on the other hand, doesn't even notice I'm playing.
Sometimes it's just me (flute) and mandolin with a couple of guitars or bodhran. The mandolin player is good, but I can't even hear him above me. Get's me wondering if anybody else can?
combination of instruments
combination of instruments
What makes different combination,s work any good examples ,without finding fault ,with sounds or personalities that are not your preference.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Blue Ted
Re: combination of instruments
For melody 'n' accompaniment rather than pure melody, I find my harp works well with sustained melody instruments such as the fiddle / whistle / flute and of course the voice - I think it's the combination of sustained and plucked which does the magic.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: combination of instruments
i find IMO that for sessions the best combination involves not having piano accordion or harp as i find that their pitches don't suit, also i just dont really like them.
there has to be more fiddles than flutes in a session otherwise it has a bad effect on the sound. flutes are fine on their own but when you have like 5 flutes maybe 2 fiddles it doesnt work (this is from a playing perspective). there has to be some sort of foil to the sound which i provided by lots of fiddles. maybe thorw in an accordion as well. there is really any combination depedning on what you like but there really does have to be more fiddles tha flutes if there are both in a session. im defo not slagging off flutes, i know plenty of flute players who agree.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: combination of instruments
One of my favorite sessions was being squeezed in between two great flute players. Sounded just fine to us. [shrug]
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: combination of instruments
Northumbrian pipes and harp is a delectable combination when the players are good enough. The musical equivalent of good Gaelic coffee.
Three whistles is wild!
Solo whistle or flute with bodhran, when the players are clued-up and responsive to each other.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by nicholas
Re: combination of instruments
Fiddle and piano-accordion in incarnations like Silly Wizard - but especially in Klezmer. Two players from Moishe's Bagel came to a Durham session fairly recently - best one ever!
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by nicholas
Re: combination of instruments
Hmm, my experience is the opposite of tradmoosic's - flutes are so quiet that when there are more fiddles than flutes, I usually can't hear the flutes. (It might be different for musicians who aren't playing loud instruments that sit right under their ears, though.)
And ditto to nicholas' last line: some of my favourite arrangements have consisted of a single melody instrument and bodhran. In large sessions, I generally find bodhrans redundant, distracting, irrelevant, or some combination of the three, but as backup for fiddle, whistle, or flute, they can be a fantastic addition.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: combination of instruments
I like instruments that are well balanced together. If you have a loud set of pipes next to a quiet mandolin, the balance isn't good. I also like a variety of reeds, wind, bowed strings, and plucked strings. So the ideal session for me might be fiddle, flute, button box, banjo, bouzouki, bodhran.
Things that annoy me in sessions are anything that muddy the sound... This can include just about any instrument, especially if it has got a lot of sustain, like a harp or hammered dulcimer. But it all depends on the playing, of course...
But whatever... It's more about the crack than the music anyway.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Reverend
Re: combination of instruments
pipes=coffee, fiddle=heavy cream, concertina=sugar
best combo ever-delicious!
to continue the analogy, I might say that the bouzouki=what is often called here"a shot in the dark" i.e. a shot of esspresso in your coffee. Fine for some, but i like mine better without...
cheers, and good morning to ye,
pipewatcher
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: combination of instruments
"A shot in the dark" reminds me of one called "Triple Depth Charge". It was a pint of Guinness with triple rum in it. I've never tried it but a co-worker drank it often enough, and said it felt quite innocuous till it - or its brothers and sisters - made your legs give way.
I'm trying to think of a musical equivalent.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by nicholas
Re: combination of instruments
The classic combinations are (in no particular order:
fiddle & pipes
pipes & flute
flute & fiddle
All three is pretty good too, for the big sound. But to be able to really hear the music, all of it, two if better.
Sessions are different, it all depends on the quality of the players. Yes, multiple futes more often sound bad, but that's only 'cause most flute players struggle with their intonation. Muliple good flute players is terrific. The fiddle is unique in that it's really the only instrument that was designed to sound good with lots of them. I like four or five good fiddles and the viola.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by ...
Re: combination of instruments
Good to see level headed opinions, I think any combination can be great and it is determined by the ability of the players in terms of being able to listen, to what other people are doing and find the common ground ,them it really settles down into a great sound.I suppose it,s a bit like life ,it pay,s to listen.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Blue Ted
Re: combination of instruments
I love almost anything if the players are right. But my favourite ever sessions have been with just fiddle and whistle or just fiddle and concertina.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: combination of instruments
same here just add pipes. i especially love playing with fiddlers who have developed an affinity for playing with pipes in particular...
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: combination of instruments
I love any combination of instruments in which the musicians listen to each other and accommodate each others' playing. I think a willingness to listen and play together, adjusting to each other's style and rhythm, is the key to a good session. Regardless of the instrumental mix, when musicians are, as my dad says, 'more in combat than in harmony', it's a recipe for disaster.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Dragut Reis
Re: combination of instruments
I love that last sentiment. I didn't think the original poster of this thread was talking specifically about sessions, but the last point reminds me of a gathering we had to play music to someone who is not now (alas) able to play any more, but still enjoys listening. So we all had a combination of playing together and playing in various combinations. It was lovely - all because it was to honour this person who meant so much to us.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: combination of instruments
Fiddle and harmonica. The perfect combination, washed down with Doom Bar of course.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: combination of instruments
16 posts and nobody's chosen the guitar.
Time to go sulk., I guess...
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by ayedbl
Re: combination of instruments
Don't think its too much to do with instrumentation. If you are lucky enough to get musicians who are (excuse the pun) "in tune" with one & another (not in the literal sense) then the magics going to happen. Rare event unfortunately.
Eiscir
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by eiscir riada
Re: combination of instruments
Steven, I play in a lunchtime mini-session every week with a great
chromatic harmonica player (and others). It _is_ a good combo.
It's good to have some reed players, especially box to add some
rhythmic spine. One banjo doesn't hurt either, if it's a good player.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Hup
Re: combination of instruments
I once heard a sort of impromptu band with two (yes, two) harps and a bodhrán, all brilliant musicians, and nothing else. It sounded surprisingly brilliant.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: combination of instruments
Banjo and accordion - Brilliant
Pipes, fiddle, flute - Brilliant
The lot - Fantastic
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by john spencer
Re: combination of instruments
Dont worry aye - I love a good backer in a session!
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by bb
Re: combination of instruments
one good backer, not three guitars a mandolin and a bouzouki
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Hup
Re: combination of instruments
oh yeah - of course, but I mean - if they are brilliant two would be good too. As long as they were brilliant tho
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by bb
Re: combination of instruments
... and none would also be good ...
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: combination of instruments
This is where we agree to disagree Ben, I love sessions that have a great backer much more than without any.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by bb
Re: combination of instruments
Fiddle & flute - great - my dream combination
Flute & Bodhran - good for trying to emulate Conal O'Grada... (I wish!)
Flute & smallpipes - need to play the flute a bit quieter and work around the drones creatively. I prefer A smallpipes.
(Yes, I'm a flute player...)
And flutes aren't quiet, flute players are - sometimes a blessing in this world of questionable intonation (yes, I do mean mine...). I can play my flutes quite loudly, even the supposd quiet one (McGee GLP).
Often a match is not just about tone colour, but also about simple facts of balanced loudness and tuning. Helps if all the instruments involved are capable of different volume and tuning levels.
Once backing is added, then one guitar played rhythmically is usually my preference. i.e as much providing the rhythmic framework as the harmonic.
Chris
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: combination of instruments
"If you have a loud set of pipes next to a quiet mandolin, the balance isn't good."
Actually, I beg to differ. It probably depends to some extent where you are positioned in relation to each instrument, but I love playing mandolin together with pipes and, to me as the player, the balance is perfect - the sound of the pipes seems to somehow *reinforce*, rather than obscure, the sound of the mandolin. Perhaps the piper, on the other hand, doesn't even notice I'm playing.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: combination of instruments
[i]italics?[/I]
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: combination of instruments
Sorry - Just seeing if it was possible to get italics. Ignore me.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: combination of instruments
Reminds me of a joke (sounds better than it reads, so you have to say it out loud):
"I hate Italians, I hate those slanty little eyes...oh no, that's italics"
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: combination of instruments
I agree, bb. We agree to disagree.
# Posted on October 16th 2008 by ethical blend
Re: combination of instruments
Sometimes it's just me (flute) and mandolin with a couple of guitars or bodhran. The mandolin player is good, but I can't even hear him above me. Get's me wondering if anybody else can?
# Posted on October 17th 2008 by Bredna