I have a Johnson bouzouki and a chance to buy a used Trinity College octave mandolin. Both sound good. The octave is somewhat easier to play because of the shorter neck; since they're tuned the same, the zouk uses a bit thinner strings. I'm trying to decide whether to keep both or, if I keep only one, which one. Octaves are very popular, but lots of people keep playing long-necked zouks all the same. Is it strictly a matter of personal taste, or are there advantages to the zouk's longer neck that compare with the octave's shorter one? Danlm
The main advantage of the longer neck is better sound. The longer strings will resonate better, and you'll get more of the "jangly" sound of the bouzouki, which comes, in part, from the strings hitting each other as they vibrate.
Years ago, I had the opposite - I had a Johnson OM and a TC Bouzouki. I liked playing tunes on the OM better, of course, but I never thought it sounded as good as the longer scale instruments.
So maybe the answer depends on how you use it most... Are you playing tunes, or accompanying?
I'd vote for the 'zouk too. Any disadvantage of having to throw your hand around a bit more when playing tunes is offset by the better tone of the longer scale.
Having said that, I am currently re-starting my 'build a mandola' project. NOT an octave, a proper CGda mandola.
So to answer your initial question, yes, it still comes down to a matter of personal taste. Bogman prefers the shorter sustain of the OM, while the good Reverend like the jangly zouk. Anyway, here's a great way to get an idea of some differences in sound. This link will take you to Phil Crump's website (his bouzoukis have that great classic bouzouki sound) and specifially to his instruments page where you can hear sound clips of the same tune being played on some of his different instruments. http://www.pwcrumpco.com/about_the_instruments.html
Anyway, you can probably hear the difference in the 2 instruments you already have. The main advantages being ease or difficulty playing the scale length, more importantly the tonal qualities.
I wonder if one of your options might be to keep both, but restring/retune the OM as a "true" mandola (CGDA)?
Has anyone tried this, or know of any issues doing so? I now have both instruments, and I'm wondering whether to restring my Weber OM this way so I use it for different things.
CGDA tuning is normally used on tenor mandolas (scale length about 17")
you might have difficulty with A strings on a 19 - 21" octave mandola neck - anything thicker than a 0.009" (as used on C tuned tenor banjos) will probably break
banjos are far stronger than mandolas - I wouldn't risk stressing a mandola soundboard as much as a replaceable mylar banjo head
most mandolas sound flabby compared to bouzoukis - fret rattle is a common problem due to short scale/low tension/fat strings
A tenor banjo has only half the strings of a mandola, mandolin, OCTAVE mandolin, or even long-necked octave mandolin, aka bouzouki. Hence it has only half the neck tension, soundboard loading, etc.
People called these things tenor mandolas because they were coming from the tenor banjo, being ignorant of the fact there was already a centuries-old tradition of the mandola in Europe, tuned CGda. There is even evidence that the mandola ( like the viola ) was the first instrument, and both mandolin and violin are the later little ones, hence the ending of the noun. At one time these families of instruments would be played in consorts, sometimes as many as eight different-sized instruments together, not just the four members of the violin family we find in modern 'classical' orchestras.
Strictly speaking, a tenor mandola should be tuned an octave below the mandola, but there is already a name for this, the mando-cello.
Campaign for Accurate Musical Instrument Nomencalture (CAMIN).
Yeah, it's merely personal preference. Some bouzoukis are built to be more bassy, but that has more to do with custom instruments than off-the-shelf ones.
With the long scale you can capo at the 5th fret and play mandola in CGDA, capo at the 7th fret and play in DAEB, and if the neck is slim enough you can capo at the 12th fret and have a mandolin.
To some extent the same applies to a shorter octave mandolin, but the 7th and 12th frets are much harder to use for a capo.
I have a Crump zouk, scale length 25.4" (same as my 'orchestra model' guitar, and I asked for that scale for just that reason), and I often think about getting a smaller instrument, but it's just a strange and perverse curiosity on my part. I'm tremendously happy with my Crump, and I really don't need another.
As long as you can afford to keep both of your instruments, you could use one to mess around with odd tunings and keep the other one in the familiar tuning, just to stay grounded.
And as you get more and more accustomed to them you'll learn more about the characteristic difference for you and the ways you like to play.
here's my tuppence worth - the mandolas I'm most familiar with are Joe Foley instruments, and have a very deep bass tone. They don't really deliver the jangly bouzouki sound which is so attractive when accompanying tunes.
I have big hands and long fingers and find the scale length of the mandola to be a problem - if using a capo it's downright impossible.
So give me a (Joe Foley) bouzouki any time.
My best use for a mandola would be in standard tuning and using it to play tunes on.
But others may have completely different views - that's what makes the world go round.
octave vs. bouzouki
octave vs. bouzouki
I have a Johnson bouzouki and a chance to buy a used Trinity College octave mandolin. Both sound good. The octave is somewhat easier to play because of the shorter neck; since they're tuned the same, the zouk uses a bit thinner strings. I'm trying to decide whether to keep both or, if I keep only one, which one. Octaves are very popular, but lots of people keep playing long-necked zouks all the same. Is it strictly a matter of personal taste, or are there advantages to the zouk's longer neck that compare with the octave's shorter one? Danlm
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by danlm
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
The main advantage of the longer neck is better sound. The longer strings will resonate better, and you'll get more of the "jangly" sound of the bouzouki, which comes, in part, from the strings hitting each other as they vibrate.
Years ago, I had the opposite - I had a Johnson OM and a TC Bouzouki. I liked playing tunes on the OM better, of course, but I never thought it sounded as good as the longer scale instruments.
So maybe the answer depends on how you use it most... Are you playing tunes, or accompanying?
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Reverend
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
Ditto The Rev.
If you can afford to and you have the space, I say keep both and love each instrument for what it is.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
The more jangly sound of the bouzouki is one of the reasons I prefer the OM to the zouk
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by bogman
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
I'd vote for the 'zouk too. Any disadvantage of having to throw your hand around a bit more when playing tunes is offset by the better tone of the longer scale.
Having said that, I am currently re-starting my 'build a mandola' project. NOT an octave, a proper CGda mandola.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
So to answer your initial question, yes, it still comes down to a matter of personal taste. Bogman prefers the shorter sustain of the OM, while the good Reverend like the jangly zouk. Anyway, here's a great way to get an idea of some differences in sound. This link will take you to Phil Crump's website (his bouzoukis have that great classic bouzouki sound) and specifially to his instruments page where you can hear sound clips of the same tune being played on some of his different instruments.
http://www.pwcrumpco.com/about_the_instruments.html
Anyway, you can probably hear the difference in the 2 instruments you already have. The main advantages being ease or difficulty playing the scale length, more importantly the tonal qualities.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by MR.
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
I wonder if one of your options might be to keep both, but restring/retune the OM as a "true" mandola (CGDA)?
Has anyone tried this, or know of any issues doing so? I now have both instruments, and I'm wondering whether to restring my Weber OM this way so I use it for different things.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by grego
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
Yep...Keep em both !
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by seaniemcg
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
CGDA tuning is normally used on tenor mandolas (scale length about 17")
you might have difficulty with A strings on a 19 - 21" octave mandola neck - anything thicker than a 0.009" (as used on C tuned tenor banjos) will probably break
banjos are far stronger than mandolas - I wouldn't risk stressing a mandola soundboard as much as a replaceable mylar banjo head
most mandolas sound flabby compared to bouzoukis - fret rattle is a common problem due to short scale/low tension/fat strings
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
I don't quite understand your post bc - a mandola is a different instrument to an Octave mandolin. Decent OM's are not flappy or rattly at all.
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by bogman
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
A tenor banjo has only half the strings of a mandola, mandolin, OCTAVE mandolin, or even long-necked octave mandolin, aka bouzouki. Hence it has only half the neck tension, soundboard loading, etc.
People called these things tenor mandolas because they were coming from the tenor banjo, being ignorant of the fact there was already a centuries-old tradition of the mandola in Europe, tuned CGda. There is even evidence that the mandola ( like the viola ) was the first instrument, and both mandolin and violin are the later little ones, hence the ending of the noun. At one time these families of instruments would be played in consorts, sometimes as many as eight different-sized instruments together, not just the four members of the violin family we find in modern 'classical' orchestras.
Strictly speaking, a tenor mandola should be tuned an octave below the mandola, but there is already a name for this, the mando-cello.
Campaign for Accurate Musical Instrument Nomencalture (CAMIN).
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
...nomenCLAture........
Hasn't anyone sacked the proofreader yet ?
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
Yeah, it's merely personal preference. Some bouzoukis are built to be more bassy, but that has more to do with custom instruments than off-the-shelf ones.
With the long scale you can capo at the 5th fret and play mandola in CGDA, capo at the 7th fret and play in DAEB, and if the neck is slim enough you can capo at the 12th fret and have a mandolin.
To some extent the same applies to a shorter octave mandolin, but the 7th and 12th frets are much harder to use for a capo.
I have a Crump zouk, scale length 25.4" (same as my 'orchestra model' guitar, and I asked for that scale for just that reason), and I often think about getting a smaller instrument, but it's just a strange and perverse curiosity on my part. I'm tremendously happy with my Crump, and I really don't need another.
As long as you can afford to keep both of your instruments, you could use one to mess around with odd tunings and keep the other one in the familiar tuning, just to stay grounded.
And as you get more and more accustomed to them you'll learn more about the characteristic difference for you and the ways you like to play.
stv
http://cdbaby.com/Culchies
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by stv culchie
Re: octave vs. bouzouki
here's my tuppence worth - the mandolas I'm most familiar with are Joe Foley instruments, and have a very deep bass tone. They don't really deliver the jangly bouzouki sound which is so attractive when accompanying tunes.
I have big hands and long fingers and find the scale length of the mandola to be a problem - if using a capo it's downright impossible.
So give me a (Joe Foley) bouzouki any time.
My best use for a mandola would be in standard tuning and using it to play tunes on.
But others may have completely different views - that's what makes the world go round.
# Posted on October 21st 2008 by lysaghtm