This sort of came about from the post from the dotted Jeremy. Is it me or does the site need a bit of a makeover? To be honest it looks like someone from the internet of the mid nineties. And mustard isn't exactly an attractive looking colour. Maybe a bit of a makeover is needed. This is constructive criticism by the way real Jeremy. Now, lets see how long it takes before this thread is deleted.
I agree - although I think it is a very user friendly site, it is a bit bright for using whilst you are at work. I am trying to look busy, but the mustard does rather give it away.
I like it the way it is. It's functional and easy to use. And surely nobody wants the famous mustard changed
The only suggestion I would put forward is putting the 5/1 tune ration info in the 'submit a tune' section rather than the FAQ section. That way newbies would have no excuse for posting their own efforts.
Some way of editing notation mistakes would be good to reduce the amount of bad tune versions would be good too.
Would it be possible to make a separate section for original tunes? I don't know if every entry has been identified as such, but it would give an outlet for those creative individuals, and unclutter the standard tunes section.
Problem is that all tunes were original at some point. At what point does an original tune join the others? After it's been recorded 5 times? 10? When the composer dies?
Also, very few people would bother looking at the original tune page as 90% are utter rubbish. Even great composers have loads of crap tunes as well as their success's. If the tunes were original but previously recorded/published then there might be a case for it but peoples generic efforts should be kept to themselves.
I think it's one of the most user friendly sites I've used! I spend far too long on it!! I Find more tunes than I can ever hope to learn, pick up some useful tips and have a good laugh at some of the daft postings!!
I'm very grateful to Jeremy for the time he must put in on this site
There are a few things that could be improved about this site - and perhaps they will be when Jeremy finds the time to do it. He has always given consideration to members' suggestions and introduced modifications and new features accordingly. He has also been very clear on those aspects which he is not prepared to change - because of lack of necessity, impracticality or because he feels it would hinder, rather than benefit, the running of the site.
I personally find the simplicity of the site, both operationally and visually, to be a positive thing. But even if I didn't, it's a minor issue compared to its virtues. (If you don't like the colour scheme, turn down the colour on your monitor ). This not being a commercial site, there is nothing really to be gained by giving it a flashy and alluring appearance - besides, it has no trouble attracting members, anyway (50,069 at the last count). The only financial recompense Jeremy gets for his ongoing work on the site is through the 'MAKE A DONATION' facility, (which, by my own admission, I have been shamefully lax in utilising, considering I have used this site since its conception) - which probably falls a long way short of covering costs.
Perhaps I just set my priorities differently, but I feel that our gripes about thesession.org should be kept to the things that really matter.
Give the guy a break, this must have involved tons of work! Is anyone offering to do any design work for free? Anything Celtic or New Age looking would make me barf, though.
The site does what it says on the tin, unlike loads of beautifully designed sites with nothing in them. I think he's done a great job. If it were me running it, I'd get so annoyed I'd take the discussions bit off!
Just an "edit post" functionality would be good. And maybe the ability to embed videos within the post so we don't have to go to youtube to view them. Otherwise, all is good.
I think it's absolutely fine as it is. There's just one thing I'd be glad to see added - a facility for updating the sheetmusic / midi for tunes one has submitted and made mistakes with: I've done this too often, and so I assume have others. But if this is complicated or impossible, so be it.
My last brain cell died decades ago, so as far as I'm concerned this site is still cutting-edge. But I want no tiny white letters on a background of purple and orange interlace, please. Leave that sort of thing to tourist boards, etc!
As one of the longer playing members (if relatively new to the site itself), I could not say emphatically enough- leave well alone. It is user friendly, extraordinarily useful, simple to use, and easy on the eye.
What the hell is wrong with people that they want to fix what ain't broke? Concentrate on playing and exchanging; it doesn't matter a blind beggar's fart what colour the desktop is.......
That's the thing I like it for - it's simple, efficient and practical, and it just stays this way. No marketing poo. Got some most useful stuff from it and learnt a lot of good music.
1. make it far easier looking up tunes and recordings by having them split into alphabetical order and not having to go through each page and page. the search engine is useful but if you dont type in the name EXACTLY as it is entered then you're lost.
2. being able to put 'reel', 'jig', etc. into the name of a tune when entered!!!
3.the discussion pages being further categorised into which months and years each one was posted rather than again going through all of those pages looking for one that was way back.
4. somewhere where people can submit traditional songs, sean nos, folk or otherwise. being able to type in the words and the music to go with it. maybe even for irish songs being able to type in the words phonetically for non-irish people.
5. be able to submit more than just one discussion a day.
6. try and update the image, it can still be made easier to use and made far more appealing looking. after so many years it hasn't evolved at all. its not so much a revolution as an evolution which im looking for but fail to find.
oh and maybe including a midi that wud recreate the tune on the tunes page so you would have the actual tune to hear rather than just the notes. better yet, maybe being able to upload recordings of the submitter playing them or examples of recordings to listen to on the site. i dont use this facility at all but i know that it would be useful for others.
Happy? No, not particularly. Answering your points:
1. If you're looking by tune name, I've always found that I only have to type something approximate to the name, and it will definitely come up. Can't see the problem.
2. You can - and, in fact, have to - already specify whether the tune is a reel or a jig when you enter it. If you're talking about searching for one rather than submitting one, then just specify you want to search 'reels' or 'jigs' or whatever under 'tune type'.
3. I *like* the fact that discussions sink into the mire after a while, only to be resurrected by afficionados years after their original submission.
4. If you want songs find a song site. I for one don't want more clutter.
5. No-o-o-o-o-o-o!!!!! For heaven's sake, it's bad enough as it is.
6. The image goes with my matching, mustard coloured, paisley shirt and kipper tie perfectly.
This site along with Comhaltaslive and Youtube offer traditional musicians all they could wish for on the Internet and as Kenny and Greg have already said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Jeremy is another of those un-sung heroes of trad and maybe we should all make more of an effort on the "submit a donation" facility at least on an annual basis (maybe Christmas and Easter offerings!!). Actually that takes me to one change I would welcome where a PO Box number might be shown for postal contributions - this would be of benefit for all of us older less technical types who feel uncomfortable with things such as Paypal or other schemes which require credit card details to be typed in on-line.
>3. I *like* the fact that discussions sink into the mire after a while, only to be resurrected by afficionados years after their original submission.
I like this too although there is no easy way for non-aficionados to see that a thread has been resurrected. I know you can scroll thro Comments but the volume of current threads makes a resurrected old one practically impossible to spot.
A simple suggestion for the advanced tune search (by notes) would be to (optionally) ignore ALL none-note characters in the search. As it stands, if there is a bar-line | or other timing/rhythm characters between the notes e.g. f/g b>d a2c then the search will fail, unless the exact same characters are typed in the search string.
Regarding appearance I ike it like it is. I like the uncluttered look of the Discussions board, it concentrates the eye and mind on what is being said rather than a load of high tech graphic windowdressing.
This is a great site - clear and simple to navigate -thanks to all involved - who cares about the colour? Far simpler than the monster that is Chiff and Fipple, or even the Footstompin' forum.
Get your grubby little paws into your pockets and MAKE A DONATION for a BRILLIANT site, instead of whinging and complaining , "The worst cow in the yard bawls first " ..Jeremy , we owe you a lot , Thankyou
I have just put my money where my mouth is and made a small donation to running costs of this site , how many of you have NEVER even paid a few dollars ? get clicking your Paypal button !!
You can get songs and everything to do with that branch of the tradition over at Mudcat Cafe: http://www.mudcat.org/
This site here is mostly about instrumental session music, and thank god (or Jeremy) we have such a site at all. It didn't just appear on its own, J had to make it happen.
I see no problem in just getting to submit just one discussion a day. Big mouths (like me, maybe!) have to have some brakes applied to them.
Maybe it could do with a facelift but I'm not here to look at lovely celtic swirly designs but to exchange views & information etc, so the main yellow background like an old pub with tobacco stained walls is to me an appropriate backdrop for those activities. This site is the "office" from which other business radiates, in the form of links to other sites such as youtube and comhaltas and peoples' own websites. If you feel so strongly tradmoosic register a domain at godaddy, design something better then get back to us, or more appropriately, Jeremy with the links to it. Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational about this but treat it more as an invitation to do this. (Speaking of which it's high time I started updating my webpage in earnest....) If there's anything to criticise, I think the standard of discussions has waned and the same things crop up again and again, but probably that's just me harking back to the "good old days", as I see them, of 2003-2006 or thereabouts.
I think the discussions are just as good if not better than they used to be. More diversity, more knowledgeable people weighing in, more sheer activity. And lately, everyone's keeping a sense of humor and pumpkin-hued humble pie.
to the OP,
please do your homework.
this site gets alot of traffic, and has no ads, no 3rd party cookies, no scripts...no clickthroughs, its beautiful, maybe unique in its lack of commercial exploitation and guff.
this raises the following issue.
if you were running a very successful site, for almost zero financial gain, and people
kept whinging about it, wouldnt you be tempted to sell the site?
a site like this could be sold at any time, it is after all "owned" by just one person. if/ when that happens,
we will get all the twirlies and scripts and gifs and ads and shockwave sh*te that are associated with "up to date" or funky sites. beyond that, we will all lose.
maybe a serious point here is that if the session was sold, how would all the dedicated conributers feel?
if i am to make one critisism...when i first found the site, i found all these tunes, which didnt link to anything i could hear, be it a mid file or a mp3 etc.which meant i gave up on the site, and didnt rediscover it for another 2 years, by which point i had discovered elsewhere that you can take and ABC and convert it to a Mid.
>I think the discussions are just as good if not better than they used to be.
As I said Will, that's probably me just harking back, and not the reality.
MIchael, I believe aldi pipes means "begrudgers and moaners shut the fxxk up or Jeremy might be tempted to sell it then it would become like anywhere else."
- Although I don't think he would...would he?
BTW, there are only three wee things where I could see possible improvements:
1) ability to edit a comment after posting.
2) ability to have the sheet music updated after editing ABC when submitting a tune.
3) some sort of more meaningful links between the Recordings section and the Tunes section. The 'tune of the same name' type link obviously is easy but has it's failings.
I don't think we should be able to edit our posts. Knowing the nature and history of the spats on this site, imagine the kind of crap that would fly when people start touching up their responses ex post facto Having it all "carved in stone" as it were, it's plain to see who was being a horse's ass (I'll take myself as an example, having said too many silly things far too many times) and who's trying to be helpful.
Of course, that much is only true until the offender changes his handle. On a few other boards I go to (unrelated to music) there is a handle history available through the profile link, but in many ways on this forum, users are almost incidental to the content they provide. Considering the facetime you should be having with other musicians to play music, this is even more pertinent. In other words, stop trying to figure out who said what about whatever to whom. Instead take what you've (hopefully) learned and go work on your schtick down at the pub.
The links to different tunes of same name can be confusing but it quickly becomes clear when you've got the wrong fish on the line. Leave a comment to redirect future travelers.
Improvements mean new forum. right? Is that the way software works? (Forgive me I do history better, not binary ) And new forum means old forum is left behind? That is a lot of content to transfer, or lose. I've always found that the most charming things surrounding traditional music are either obtuse, vague, observed but left unsaid, generally mysterious, or obstinately anachronistic and so I see nothing wrong with the interface of this site. It serves a worldwide community in a unique way, and does so very well with no advertising.
In the past I've been cranky with a clunky interface and lack of moderation but to be genuinely offended by a hand that keeps on giving is a silly notion to trifle with. I challenge anyone bent on existential discussions like this one to create a better website with as many members, or such memorable trolls (truth is stranger than fiction). Better get moving because The Session is almost a decade ahead of ya!
I like this website the way it is, than you for very much. The only change I would suggest is the ability to edit the .gif of tunes if there was an error in the ABC.
The Advanced Search facility in the Tunes section is the one feature of this site which does seem to me to be inadequate. Yes, we are lucky to have it at all, but in my experience, it is so difficult to use effectively that it almost might as well not be there. Some people claim to be able to make it work, but it must require quite some expertise. I know that a lot of members resort to posting abc fragments of tunes (which, more often than not, turn out to be somewhere in the database) in discussions, or simply using other search methods (even the site search facility on the Home page seems to be more effective).
Since my understanding of computers goes little beyond the use of this site, I have no idea how much work would be involved in updating the Advanced Search and don't feel justified in putting pressure on Jeremy to do so. He has been alerted to the problem before, so he clearly has his reasons why he has not made any changes. In the meantime, there are alternative methods which work.
Being able to edit your own posts can often reduce those spats. You get a chance to think twice. You post looks very different stuck up there plain and naked for all to see from how it looks in this little harmless box. You can see who's edited posts on Chiff (for example) so it isn't easy to make a chump out of someone by editing. The other thing is thst I hate see ing my speLling errers and tiepose up their 4 all eternity.
Good post - the site is good, but like the OP I think it needs a serious overhaul:
i) Categorised Discussions? Would clean up things a lot.
ii) Better searching. Either in discussions or tunes it leaves a lot to be desired. e.g. no string searches; navigating through tune results is a nightmare;
iii) Clean up the tunes section: put in more categories, so that when you click on a 'reel' or 'jig' you don't find a march or waltz that wastes your time.
iv) Section off the self-composed tunes. God knows nobody could possibly want to see them (bar the composers).
v) The links between recordings and tunes are often wrong.
vi) tune edits displayed in score...
Worth its weight in gold, and fast to load (because not weighed down with graphics, I guess)
So also acts as litmus paper for how fast or slow you're receiving the net at any particular time- if the Sesh is slow, anything else will be diabolical.
Funny you should mention that. I remember having problems loading the page with IE about two, three years ago. This site was an anomaly! Switched to Firefox, cured.
why are some people afraid of change? i think we have to realise that change is not ALWAYS bad. i like the website, i dont why some people are talking about 'oh if you dont like the website dont use it' (only some people of course). my ideas are there not to completely change the site but to improve it even more. they are not major changes, just ones that the site might need. everything i suggested is for the benefit of the user and will if you think about the whole catgorising thing, in fact make navigating EASIER not HARDER. about the facelift, the site can still look modern without looking tacky. it has looked this way for far too long. i think even a small thing like that will reinvigorate the site and maybe ultimately attract more users, which is really the whole point of a website. i think familiarity breeds contempt if some things dont evolve as time goes on.
Jeremy...there is a saying in my line of work. 'No good deed goes unpunished'
I note a distinct lack of popups and adverts on this site. So I assume Jeremy is independently and opulantly wealthy allowing him the time to do the care and feeding of this platform of Celtic punditry and commiseration.
Just kidding.
There is alot of work keeping the Mustard board going. And for what it does, it works very well. (Although 'spare time' activities her might include some updating of the tunes area.)
There is simplicity to the Mustard Board's design-no scrolly, curly-cues, smiling leprechhauns, celtic crosses and other trite folderal. And unlike several other websites I frequent which must be blatently sexist, no gratuituous pictures of red-headed sweet young things in minimal gaelicesque costumes and hunks wearing pony-tails, dago tees and tight leather britches.
I hope by the exagerated potential contrasts above folks get my drift that it something 'aint broke, don't fix it'.
A more dramatic example is PBS under Bush appointees- nature and environmental programs with oil company and military hardware companies........
In closing. Jeremy, nice job on keeping this thing going btw...Your constitutency is a very opinionated lot!
Change is fine... especially when it's somebody else - in this case Jeremy - who has to take the trouble to do it, eh?
Would you walk into someone's house and demand they change the curtains because you think the place needs an "overhaul"? [ or is "makeover" the modern word ?]
I don't care what the site "looks like" It works as is. There are minor improvements which could be made, of course, but that's up to "El Supremo", who I'm sure has other things to do in his life.
A website devoted to traditional music , perhaps more than any other musical form, should be about substance, not "style". IMHO.
I don't think any overhaul is needed. Everyone might have one or two things they would like different but someone else might want something different. It's a great site and tinkering with it would only spoil it in my opinion. What would we do without it now?
>gratuituous pictures of red-headed sweet young things in minimal gaelicesque costumes and hunks wearing pony-tails, dago tees and tight leather britches.
I agree that kind of thing would be totally unnecessary here. However, just to be sure, would be be able to post a link to the kind of sites that do this?
The main benefit of this discussion for me is that it has sent me off to the '"Make a Donation" button. This site is good and should not be changed drastically.
The only things I might add would be a slightly more sophisticated search function for discussions (e.g. search by user, date range, title, contents, combinations of words, whole phrases, etc.)
Some housekeeping in the database might not be a bad idea too. Many of the tunes have a questionable version listed and then much more reliable/more commonly played versions in the comments. Might be nice if the best known versions could migrate to being the main version shown for the tune. I am not suggesting some poor sod goes through the database, rather that some tools are put in place to allow the user community to decide such things.
I might also add sections for related tunes, tunes of the same name but not related, etc.
And it would be nice if copyright-free versions of a tune could be uploaded for learning purposes (since MIDI generated from abc is useless).
And maybe a link on recordings, to the actual tune being played (where known), not just linked by name, something along the lines of what irishtune.info provides?
Thank you zippydw. You gave me the perfect idea for a totally and completely useless and inconsequential thread which would be a stupid waste of time, energy, and effort. Namely, "What is the color of your spouse's/significant other's hair?"
The Session Overhaul.
The Session Overhaul.
This sort of came about from the post from the dotted Jeremy. Is it me or does the site need a bit of a makeover? To be honest it looks like someone from the internet of the mid nineties. And mustard isn't exactly an attractive looking colour. Maybe a bit of a makeover is needed. This is constructive criticism by the way real Jeremy. Now, lets see how long it takes before this thread is deleted.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I agree - although I think it is a very user friendly site, it is a bit bright for using whilst you are at work. I am trying to look busy, but the mustard does rather give it away.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Mando Deb
Re: The Session Overhaul.
But since it is about traditional music, shouldn't it be a "traditional" website?.....
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I think the '90s' image is a bit modern.
Can't we have some old Celtic lettering, or even Ogham ?
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I like it the way it is. It's functional and easy to use. And surely nobody wants the famous mustard changed
The only suggestion I would put forward is putting the 5/1 tune ration info in the 'submit a tune' section rather than the FAQ section. That way newbies would have no excuse for posting their own efforts.
Some way of editing notation mistakes would be good to reduce the amount of bad tune versions would be good too.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bogman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
jayzuz....do something for nowt and all you get are people criticising.
It works, its clear, easy to find your way around, its active, dynamic, a massive data base of tunes....
All I can say is hats off to you real Jeremy - thanks very much for creating and maintaining a site I visit every day.
I guess 'dot' Jeremy must have posted something slanderous or obscene and been deleted in the past......
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bodatcha
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Would it be possible to make a separate section for original tunes? I don't know if every entry has been identified as such, but it would give an outlet for those creative individuals, and unclutter the standard tunes section.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Imnotirish
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Problem is that all tunes were original at some point. At what point does an original tune join the others? After it's been recorded 5 times? 10? When the composer dies?
Also, very few people would bother looking at the original tune page as 90% are utter rubbish. Even great composers have loads of crap tunes as well as their success's. If the tunes were original but previously recorded/published then there might be a case for it but peoples generic efforts should be kept to themselves.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bogman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I think it's one of the most user friendly sites I've used! I spend far too long on it!! I Find more tunes than I can ever hope to learn, pick up some useful tips and have a good laugh at some of the daft postings!!
I'm very grateful to Jeremy for the time he must put in on this site
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Tarrantella
Re: The Session Overhaul.
There are a few things that could be improved about this site - and perhaps they will be when Jeremy finds the time to do it. He has always given consideration to members' suggestions and introduced modifications and new features accordingly. He has also been very clear on those aspects which he is not prepared to change - because of lack of necessity, impracticality or because he feels it would hinder, rather than benefit, the running of the site.
I personally find the simplicity of the site, both operationally and visually, to be a positive thing. But even if I didn't, it's a minor issue compared to its virtues. (If you don't like the colour scheme, turn down the colour on your monitor
). This not being a commercial site, there is nothing really to be gained by giving it a flashy and alluring appearance - besides, it has no trouble attracting members, anyway (50,069 at the last count). The only financial recompense Jeremy gets for his ongoing work on the site is through the 'MAKE A DONATION' facility, (which, by my own admission, I have been shamefully lax in utilising, considering I have used this site since its conception) - which probably falls a long way short of covering costs.
Perhaps I just set my priorities differently, but I feel that our gripes about thesession.org should be kept to the things that really matter.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I think the design is good, it's simple and user friendly. Id focus on adding more features.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by whangee
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Give the guy a break, this must have involved tons of work! Is anyone offering to do any design work for free? Anything Celtic or New Age looking would make me barf, though.
The site does what it says on the tin, unlike loads of beautifully designed sites with nothing in them. I think he's done a great job. If it were me running it, I'd get so annoyed I'd take the discussions bit off!
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by S1obhan
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I'm sure Jeremy has many laughs at some of the random muppetry written here
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bogman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Just an "edit post" functionality would be good. And maybe the ability to embed videos within the post so we don't have to go to youtube to view them. Otherwise, all is good.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Please keep it as it is.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by RichardB
Re: The Session Overhaul.
>random muppetry - LOL
tradmoosic, post a link to some of your own ideas for overhaul then please
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I think it's absolutely fine as it is. There's just one thing I'd be glad to see added - a facility for updating the sheetmusic / midi for tunes one has submitted and made mistakes with: I've done this too often, and so I assume have others. But if this is complicated or impossible, so be it.
My last brain cell died decades ago, so as far as I'm concerned this site is still cutting-edge. But I want no tiny white letters on a background of purple and orange interlace, please. Leave that sort of thing to tourist boards, etc!
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by nicholas
Re: The Session Overhaul.
As one of the longer playing members (if relatively new to the site itself), I could not say emphatically enough- leave well alone. It is user friendly, extraordinarily useful, simple to use, and easy on the eye.
What the hell is wrong with people that they want to fix what ain't broke? Concentrate on playing and exchanging; it doesn't matter a blind beggar's fart what colour the desktop is.......
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by mike the box
Re: The Session Overhaul.
If it ain't broke.....
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Kenny
Re: The Session Overhaul.
...it don't need fixin'.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: The Session Overhaul.
That's the thing I like it for - it's simple, efficient and practical, and it just stays this way. No marketing poo. Got some most useful stuff from it and learnt a lot of good music.
Thanks Jeremy.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by EastPole
Re: The Session Overhaul.
...and, it takes like chicken. What's not to like?
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Session Overhaul.
One of the easiest to use websites I've ever come across. Simple. That's why I like it.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: The Session Overhaul.
my own suggestions? well,
1. make it far easier looking up tunes and recordings by having them split into alphabetical order and not having to go through each page and page. the search engine is useful but if you dont type in the name EXACTLY as it is entered then you're lost.
2. being able to put 'reel', 'jig', etc. into the name of a tune when entered!!!
3.the discussion pages being further categorised into which months and years each one was posted rather than again going through all of those pages looking for one that was way back.
4. somewhere where people can submit traditional songs, sean nos, folk or otherwise. being able to type in the words and the music to go with it. maybe even for irish songs being able to type in the words phonetically for non-irish people.
5. be able to submit more than just one discussion a day.
6. try and update the image, it can still be made easier to use and made far more appealing looking. after so many years it hasn't evolved at all. its not so much a revolution as an evolution which im looking for but fail to find.
there, you happy?
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: The Session Overhaul.
oh and maybe including a midi that wud recreate the tune on the tunes page so you would have the actual tune to hear rather than just the notes. better yet, maybe being able to upload recordings of the submitter playing them or examples of recordings to listen to on the site. i dont use this facility at all but i know that it would be useful for others.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Happy? No, not particularly. Answering your points:
1. If you're looking by tune name, I've always found that I only have to type something approximate to the name, and it will definitely come up. Can't see the problem.
2. You can - and, in fact, have to - already specify whether the tune is a reel or a jig when you enter it. If you're talking about searching for one rather than submitting one, then just specify you want to search 'reels' or 'jigs' or whatever under 'tune type'.
3. I *like* the fact that discussions sink into the mire after a while, only to be resurrected by afficionados years after their original submission.
4. If you want songs find a song site. I for one don't want more clutter.
5. No-o-o-o-o-o-o!!!!! For heaven's sake, it's bad enough as it is.
6. The image goes with my matching, mustard coloured, paisley shirt and kipper tie perfectly.
Down with the revolution!
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: The Session Overhaul.
This site along with Comhaltaslive and Youtube offer traditional musicians all they could wish for on the Internet and as Kenny and Greg have already said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
Jeremy is another of those un-sung heroes of trad and maybe we should all make more of an effort on the "submit a donation" facility at least on an annual basis (maybe Christmas and Easter offerings!!). Actually that takes me to one change I would welcome where a PO Box number might be shown for postal contributions - this would be of benefit for all of us older less technical types who feel uncomfortable with things such as Paypal or other schemes which require credit card details to be typed in on-line.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
>3. I *like* the fact that discussions sink into the mire after a while, only to be resurrected by afficionados years after their original submission.
I like this too although there is no easy way for non-aficionados to see that a thread has been resurrected. I know you can scroll thro Comments but the volume of current threads makes a resurrected old one practically impossible to spot.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: The Session Overhaul.
A simple suggestion for the advanced tune search (by notes) would be to (optionally) ignore ALL none-note characters in the search. As it stands, if there is a bar-line | or other timing/rhythm characters between the notes e.g. f/g b>d a2c then the search will fail, unless the exact same characters are typed in the search string.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Rick Payman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Regarding appearance I ike it like it is. I like the uncluttered look of the Discussions board, it concentrates the eye and mind on what is being said rather than a load of high tech graphic windowdressing.
Mustard is so uncool it's cool again
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by bowburner
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Maybe the problem of resurrecting discussions from the mire could be solved by allowing the Newest column to be sortable.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: The Session Overhaul.
If you don't like mustard you can change it in IE:
Tools, Internet Options, Accessibility, tick Ignore colors specified on webpages.
Then Tools, Internet Options, Colors and choose whatever colours you like.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: The Session Overhaul.
This is a great site - clear and simple to navigate -thanks to all involved - who cares about the colour? Far simpler than the monster that is Chiff and Fipple, or even the Footstompin' forum.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by west-coaster
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I wish the "Back" button worked a little better.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by browndog
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Get your grubby little paws into your pockets and MAKE A DONATION for a BRILLIANT site, instead of whinging and complaining , "The worst cow in the yard bawls first " ..Jeremy , we owe you a lot , Thankyou
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Red Robin
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I have just put my money where my mouth is and made a small donation to running costs of this site , how many of you have NEVER even paid a few dollars ? get clicking your Paypal button !!
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Red Robin
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Mustard is the new black.....
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: The Session Overhaul.
You can get songs and everything to do with that branch of the tradition over at Mudcat Cafe:
http://www.mudcat.org/
This site here is mostly about instrumental session music, and thank god (or Jeremy) we have such a site at all. It didn't just appear on its own, J had to make it happen.
I see no problem in just getting to submit just one discussion a day. Big mouths (like me, maybe!) have to have some brakes applied to them.
Maybe it could do with a facelift but I'm not here to look at lovely celtic swirly designs but to exchange views & information etc, so the main yellow background like an old pub with tobacco stained walls is to me an appropriate backdrop for those activities. This site is the "office" from which other business radiates, in the form of links to other sites such as youtube and comhaltas and peoples' own websites. If you feel so strongly tradmoosic register a domain at godaddy, design something better then get back to us, or more appropriately, Jeremy with the links to it. Sorry, I'm not trying to be confrontational about this but treat it more as an invitation to do this. (Speaking of which it's high time I started updating my webpage in earnest....) If there's anything to criticise, I think the standard of discussions has waned and the same things crop up again and again, but probably that's just me harking back to the "good old days", as I see them, of 2003-2006 or thereabouts.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Yeah, it's tempting to think the discussions have waned ... try reading the old ones again ... nostalgia's a wonderful thing ...
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: The Session Overhaul.
...Or in the words of Douglas Adams, author of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Time-travel is not what it used to be....
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I think the discussions are just as good if not better than they used to be. More diversity, more knowledgeable people weighing in, more sheer activity. And lately, everyone's keeping a sense of humor and pumpkin-hued humble pie.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: The Session Overhaul.
people who don't like this site have options
1. go to another site
2. start your own
It's ok as is and there doesn't seem to be any shortage of others who find it so
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: The Session Overhaul.
"If you don't like mustard you can change it in IE:"
I tried it.
It works.
It's just not the same though!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by domnull
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I say we all move to a proper message board like chiff and fipple, where you have separate forums, post editing, and other standard features.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by mcdevincabe
Re: The Session Overhaul.
what's all this about mustard? I thought it was pure gold! throw out the punters and let's have a tune.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Dont
Re: The Session Overhaul.
There are other sites out there that are newer, cleaner, easier to find tunes, etc., but they charge an annual membership fee and a fee per download.
Personally I like mustard, and the site functionality is better than most.
Thanks Jeremy!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by dlkes
Re: The Session Overhaul.
to the OP,
please do your homework.
this site gets alot of traffic, and has no ads, no 3rd party cookies, no scripts...no clickthroughs, its beautiful, maybe unique in its lack of commercial exploitation and guff.
this raises the following issue.
if you were running a very successful site, for almost zero financial gain, and people
kept whinging about it, wouldnt you be tempted to sell the site?
a site like this could be sold at any time, it is after all "owned" by just one person. if/ when that happens,
we will get all the twirlies and scripts and gifs and ads and shockwave sh*te that are associated with "up to date" or funky sites. beyond that, we will all lose.
maybe a serious point here is that if the session was sold, how would all the dedicated conributers feel?
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by aldi pipes
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Is this web site really worth money? Really? I'm flabbergasted.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: The Session Overhaul.
.... i like thesession as it is.
if i am to make one critisism...when i first found the site, i found all these tunes, which didnt link to anything i could hear, be it a mid file or a mp3 etc.which meant i gave up on the site, and didnt rediscover it for another 2 years, by which point i had discovered elsewhere that you can take and ABC and convert it to a Mid.
i still think abc is a weird format....
god bless
aldi
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by aldi pipes
Re: The Session Overhaul.
llig
any site with lots of traffic is interesting to advertisers, which means its worth money.
tomorrow i will show you how to suck eggs
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by aldi pipes
Re: The Session Overhaul.
>I think the discussions are just as good if not better than they used to be.
As I said Will, that's probably me just harking back, and not the reality.
MIchael, I believe aldi pipes means "begrudgers and moaners shut the fxxk up or Jeremy might be tempted to sell it then it would become like anywhere else."
- Although I don't think he would...would he?
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Ah yes but Aldi, is the lack of advertising not one of the main reasons why this site attracts. Whatever about sucking eggs, think chicken & egg!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: The Session Overhaul.
BTW, there are only three wee things where I could see possible improvements:
1) ability to edit a comment after posting.
2) ability to have the sheet music updated after editing ABC when submitting a tune.
3) some sort of more meaningful links between the Recordings section and the Tunes section. The 'tune of the same name' type link obviously is easy but has it's failings.
Otherwise it's grand the way it is..
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I thought you shook eggs.....
Anyway, it might not be the main reason, but it helps.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Nick Splease
Overhaul?
I don't think we should be able to edit our posts. Knowing the nature and history of the spats on this site, imagine the kind of crap that would fly when people start touching up their responses ex post facto
Having it all "carved in stone" as it were, it's plain to see who was being a horse's ass (I'll take myself as an example, having said too many silly things far too many times) and who's trying to be helpful.
Of course, that much is only true until the offender changes his handle. On a few other boards I go to (unrelated to music) there is a handle history available through the profile link, but in many ways on this forum, users are almost incidental to the content they provide. Considering the facetime you should be having with other musicians to play music, this is even more pertinent. In other words, stop trying to figure out who said what about whatever to whom. Instead take what you've (hopefully) learned and go work on your schtick down at the pub.
The links to different tunes of same name can be confusing but it quickly becomes clear when you've got the wrong fish on the line. Leave a comment to redirect future travelers.
Improvements mean new forum. right? Is that the way software works? (Forgive me I do history better, not binary
) And new forum means old forum is left behind? That is a lot of content to transfer, or lose. I've always found that the most charming things surrounding traditional music are either obtuse, vague, observed but left unsaid, generally mysterious, or obstinately anachronistic and so I see nothing wrong with the interface of this site. It serves a worldwide community in a unique way, and does so very well with no advertising.
In the past I've been cranky with a clunky interface and lack of moderation but to be genuinely offended by a hand that keeps on giving is a silly notion to trifle with. I challenge anyone bent on existential discussions like this one to create a better website with as many members, or such memorable trolls (truth is stranger than fiction). Better get moving because The Session is almost a decade ahead of ya!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by gravelwalks
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I like this website the way it is, than you for very much. The only change I would suggest is the ability to edit the .gif of tunes if there was an error in the ABC.
Long live thesession.org!!!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Re: Tradmoosic's points 1 & 2
The Advanced Search facility in the Tunes section is the one feature of this site which does seem to me to be inadequate. Yes, we are lucky to have it at all, but in my experience, it is so difficult to use effectively that it almost might as well not be there. Some people claim to be able to make it work, but it must require quite some expertise. I know that a lot of members resort to posting abc fragments of tunes (which, more often than not, turn out to be somewhere in the database) in discussions, or simply using other search methods (even the site search facility on the Home page seems to be more effective).
Since my understanding of computers goes little beyond the use of this site, I have no idea how much work would be involved in updating the Advanced Search and don't feel justified in putting pressure on Jeremy to do so. He has been alerted to the problem before, so he clearly has his reasons why he has not made any changes. In the meantime, there are alternative methods which work.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: The Session Overhaul.
IMHO:
Great site.
Many good and informative discussions.
Good tunelists.
Good links.
What this site does not have, it does not need.
IMHO.
Thank you, Jeremy.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Rook
Re: The Session Overhaul.
And,
BTW,
in case I failed to mention it:
THANK YOU JEREMY!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Rook
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Tradmoosic and aldi pipes, you _can_ download a midi of the tune. Not that I think is a useful thing, though.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Being able to edit your own posts can often reduce those spats. You get a chance to think twice. You post looks very different stuck up there plain and naked for all to see from how it looks in this little harmless box. You can see who's edited posts on Chiff (for example) so it isn't easy to make a chump out of someone by editing. The other thing is thst I hate see ing my speLling errers and tiepose up their 4 all eternity.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Your post. What did I bloody tell you.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Good post - the site is good, but like the OP I think it needs a serious overhaul:
i) Categorised Discussions? Would clean up things a lot.
ii) Better searching. Either in discussions or tunes it leaves a lot to be desired. e.g. no string searches; navigating through tune results is a nightmare;
iii) Clean up the tunes section: put in more categories, so that when you click on a 'reel' or 'jig' you don't find a march or waltz that wastes your time.
iv) Section off the self-composed tunes. God knows nobody could possibly want to see them (bar the composers).
v) The links between recordings and tunes are often wrong.
vi) tune edits displayed in score...
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by continuo
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Worth its weight in gold, and fast to load (because not weighed down with graphics, I guess)
So also acts as litmus paper for how fast or slow you're receiving the net at any particular time- if the Sesh is slow, anything else will be diabolical.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by P-K
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Funny you should mention that. I remember having problems loading the page with IE about two, three years ago. This site was an anomaly! Switched to Firefox, cured.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by gravelwalks
Re: The Session Overhaul.
why are some people afraid of change? i think we have to realise that change is not ALWAYS bad. i like the website, i dont why some people are talking about 'oh if you dont like the website dont use it' (only some people of course). my ideas are there not to completely change the site but to improve it even more. they are not major changes, just ones that the site might need. everything i suggested is for the benefit of the user and will if you think about the whole catgorising thing, in fact make navigating EASIER not HARDER. about the facelift, the site can still look modern without looking tacky. it has looked this way for far too long. i think even a small thing like that will reinvigorate the site and maybe ultimately attract more users, which is really the whole point of a website. i think familiarity breeds contempt if some things dont evolve as time goes on.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: The Session Overhaul.
This is amusing....
Jeremy...there is a saying in my line of work. 'No good deed goes unpunished'
I note a distinct lack of popups and adverts on this site. So I assume Jeremy is independently and opulantly wealthy allowing him the time to do the care and feeding of this platform of Celtic punditry and commiseration.
Just kidding.
There is alot of work keeping the Mustard board going. And for what it does, it works very well. (Although 'spare time' activities her might include some updating of the tunes area.)
There is simplicity to the Mustard Board's design-no scrolly, curly-cues, smiling leprechhauns, celtic crosses and other trite folderal. And unlike several other websites I frequent which must be blatently sexist, no gratuituous pictures of red-headed sweet young things in minimal gaelicesque costumes and hunks wearing pony-tails, dago tees and tight leather britches.
I hope by the exagerated potential contrasts above folks get my drift that it something 'aint broke, don't fix it'.
A more dramatic example is PBS under Bush appointees- nature and environmental programs with oil company and military hardware companies........
In closing. Jeremy, nice job on keeping this thing going btw...Your constitutency is a very opinionated lot!
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by zippydw
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Change is fine... especially when it's somebody else - in this case Jeremy - who has to take the trouble to do it, eh?
Would you walk into someone's house and demand they change the curtains because you think the place needs an "overhaul"? [ or is "makeover" the modern word ?]
I don't care what the site "looks like" It works as is. There are minor improvements which could be made, of course, but that's up to "El Supremo", who I'm sure has other things to do in his life.
A website devoted to traditional music , perhaps more than any other musical form, should be about substance, not "style". IMHO.
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Kenny
Re: The Session Overhaul.
I don't think any overhaul is needed. Everyone might have one or two things they would like different but someone else might want something different. It's a great site and tinkering with it would only spoil it in my opinion. What would we do without it now?
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by bogman
Re: The Session Overhaul.
>gratuituous pictures of red-headed sweet young things in minimal gaelicesque costumes and hunks wearing pony-tails, dago tees and tight leather britches.
I agree that kind of thing would be totally unnecessary here. However, just to be sure, would be be able to post a link to the kind of sites that do this?
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by Mike Floorstand
Re: The Session Overhaul.
The main benefit of this discussion for me is that it has sent me off to the '"Make a Donation" button. This site is good and should not be changed drastically.
The only things I might add would be a slightly more sophisticated search function for discussions (e.g. search by user, date range, title, contents, combinations of words, whole phrases, etc.)
Some housekeeping in the database might not be a bad idea too. Many of the tunes have a questionable version listed and then much more reliable/more commonly played versions in the comments. Might be nice if the best known versions could migrate to being the main version shown for the tune. I am not suggesting some poor sod goes through the database, rather that some tools are put in place to allow the user community to decide such things.
I might also add sections for related tunes, tunes of the same name but not related, etc.
And it would be nice if copyright-free versions of a tune could be uploaded for learning purposes (since MIDI generated from abc is useless).
And maybe a link on recordings, to the actual tune being played (where known), not just linked by name, something along the lines of what irishtune.info provides?
Chris
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Mike Floorstand
Sorry. Herself is looking over my shoulder....as a former red-headed young thing, she gets a bit grumpy when I look at those sites
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by zippydw
Re: The Session Overhaul.
Thank you zippydw. You gave me the perfect idea for a totally and completely useless and inconsequential thread which would be a stupid waste of time, energy, and effort. Namely, "What is the color of your spouse's/significant other's hair?"
# Posted on October 15th 2008 by fauxcelt