Discussions of inconsequential trite.
A myriad of sessions no longer in existence.
Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)
I have been a member for a year or so now and even tho I dont post a lot, I visit this site 3 to 4 times a week for news views and information.
I have always found the members here have responded to any of my requests quickly and accurately also the information I have aquired from the site I woud never have collated elsewhere so quickly, I really appreciate this boards existance and the time and effort put in to answer queries, questions, quests even by like mided people all over the world is commendable plus.
I was fortunate enough to travel around Ireland in July/August this year and with advice and guidance from members on this site we had a fantastic trip knowing where and when to go, to me there is no other site like it..
The site is an excellent resource. The archival material in the discussion forum is absolutely great and is a pooling of knowledge and views on pretty much all aspects of the genre and instruments that would be impossible to efficiency construct or access without the vehicle of the site.
The site could probably do with a 'purgatory' section, where transgressioners could be 'dragged and dropped' for a stint, quite free to speak with other purgateers and view the public forum, but not enter 'heaven' at least for a while until they have had a good scrubbing (in the nicest sense of the word). Sessioneers could view the purging members discussions among themselves and and pray for them, and possibly make sacrifices for their redemption. It may work for some of them.
Peace be with you.
On the other hand, Jeremy, you could always solicit some advertisers to the site and help defray the costs and pain of administering it. I can imagine a huge range of providers of goods and services who would find the clientele here fascinating prospects!
I've had some great laughs on here too; however sometimes I find that you have to telegraph the fact that you're being ironic, which sort of defeats the purpose...
Can you imagine thesession.org 20 years down the line where everyone has webcams and you can see how ugly everyone else is??
Whether your observations are correct or otherwise, Michael, you're still here. Therefore, the site must have some merits?
"Discussions of inconsequential trite."
The discussions are only as good as the people who contribute. Many are indeed irrelevant and several subjects have been "done to death" already. However, we have to be kind to new members who think they are asking the questions for the first time (You put me in my place over that one, yourself, if I recall. )
"A myriad of sessions no longer in existence"
A controversial subject this. I reckon that they(Extant sessions) could and should be "weeded" but Jeremy likes to leave them "live" to indicate that there might still be hope?
However, it's also "up to us" to notify him and, at least, update the comments section re the current state of affairs.
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active"
What is active? Many more people use The Session and its facilities than actually contribute to the discussion forum.
"A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)"
The part in parenthesis is true but no-one is suggesting that you should share tunes via notation ALONE. The tune section here is just one facility at our disposal.
Also, much of what is heard and played in the real world of sessions is also "riddled with inaccuracies".
You sometimes have to visit a few real sessions before you hear "the correct" (Is there such a thing?)setting of a tune.
I've actually been running a fieldwork project on you all for several years now...
...just kidding. I've really enjoyed being able to listen to the advice and opinions of people around the globe on a ridiculous number of topics related to this music. I'm not always around a lot of people with extensive knowledge and familiarity with the tradition, so those of you that are are a welcome breath of fresh air and source of different perspectives and useful information.
It's great. I get really fed up with it at times. But I'm always drawn back. I've learnt more since I've been involved with this site than at any other time. Strangely - or not, depending on how you look at it - I've learnt the most when I've been in one of my particularly helpful phases. (I.E. I've learnt more from being helpful, rather than from being helped, though of course I've learnt from that too.)
I appreciate the design of the site, Jeremy. I appreciate its simplicity. I also appreciate the fact that, for the most part, this place is unusually helpful for places on the net. Compare our occasional 'flame wars' with the seemingly almost constant attacks and nastiness on Mudcat, for instance. And our lightheartedness compared with the overly serious and sometimes pompous nature of those flute forum thingies (whatever they're called).
The tunes section is actually very useful, once you know how to use it properly. If you "eschew" it, as Michael has always said he does, you won't find that out.
A thriving web community populated by people who share some common interests with me.
A wonderful place to meet people from around the world, and develop close friendships.
A tune archive that has had at *least* one transcription of every tune I have ever learned.
A fantastic resource of knowledge about pretty much everything related to ITM (if the questions are posed properly).
An amusing place to spend some time away from the stresses of every-day life.
MG, you are a veritable rock of constancy on this site.
I have found the ebb and flow of this site fascinating; that's why I'm still checking in.
The tune base is still a great reference; I TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, MICHAEL, AND I DON'T LEARN THEM FROM THE DOTS. There. I feel better with that out of the way. Gotta have those disclaimers handy.
It was raining this weekend, so I actually got in my car and drove for a half hour to a tune-learning session in the next town. After learning a few new ones, the group set off into the familiars--tunes that I had learned years ago when I found out that you could DO that sort of thing. And for a moment, I got all smug and did the mental-eye roll thing. "Oh lord, they are still playing the same things.....jeezihatethattunegododwehavetoplaythatonepleasepleasedon'tsayceltic...
Then I realized that it was fun and who cares. So that's the whole point of this rant. It's fun. Who cares? I don't have to prove my fiddle-manhood (smirk) to anyone anymore. If something doesn't interest me, I don't do it. It's very liberating.
Sure, some of the threads here are silly, but it's easy to disregard them if they're not your cuppa joe.
Besides, it's a healthy sign of diversity here that not every thread appeals to every person. I *like* it that some of the younger members do slagging threads and write in text speak. I like that some of the old geezers here routinely complain about the decline of the music. I like that someone else can post a question about acoustic amps for fiddles. I don't have to read all of it or any of it to appreciate that this community is more diverse and participatory than it has been at any previous time in its short life.
Heh, and I DO learn tunes from the abcs here sometimes. It's not a problem when the alphabet soup is informed by 30 years of listening to and playing this music--there's nothing wrong with picking up tunes this way. No different from Kevin Burke seeing the Market Town jig in O'Neill's and playing it off the page. If you're really immersed in this music, the inky stuff is just another source of tunes.
All that said, the best part of this site is the people it's connected me with--some truly wonderful friends now. That alone is worth the price of admission.
well maye if we made some suggestions where things could be improved the 'guy behind the curtain' (Jeremy-not Dick Cheney) as it were might look at the alternatives.
Part of the problem on the tune data base is that most of that stuff was put in with things done by hand or pretty primitive software. (I know the first thing I submitted something has some screw ups...I tried to fix them but nothing ever showed up) Maybe there is something better and the data base can be updated.
I use the data bas to more verify stuff I am learning, but not too often as a base source because the tunes often are ont exactly right or have strange things due to abc translation.
On the other hand, the exchange of information here is better than any place (including chiff and fipple) else.
And the Session data base is hopelessly out of date. But that's a function I think of the economy and the changes it has caused on people having (or not) regular session venues because the pub was torn down for condos or an car park for an office building. Or in the case of big cities-the need for bars to jam more drinking customers in with kareoke, c/w, basketball etc to pay the rent in the new high rise (another thread here)
This site is a very ... VERY ... good analogy for an actual real-life session.
I'm often amazed by how like a session it is. People chipping in, sometimes with something that makes you sit up and think: ooh, I like that one! I agree with that one (or that one agrees with me). People nattering in between the tunes, about the tunes, about something completely different, about their new fiddle/whistle/flute/amp ... or about nothing musical at all.
And you get to know some of them over a period of time. People *and* tunes.
btw, FWIW (c, i cn do txt-spk evn tho im old, will ) I don't think Michael was using reverse psychology at all ...
Heh, I think Michael just prefers a high-grade session. In that respect, this is a very open, inclusive session, as it should be. It's part beginner session, part intermediate, part advanced. Saving grace being that we don't have to hear it all at once. But it's certainly richer for its wide range of interests and abilities.
Aye, just like those at any good session .. & usually great crack too!
"A myriad of sessions no longer in existence." ....
.. interesting archive though!
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active." ....
Aye, but don't forget all those musicians out there, who make good use of this site every day, without actually posting themselves.
Mind you, when you see many of the aggressive, know it all, put downs which are fired against first posts from new members here, from mature, experienced musicians who should really know better, I'm not really so surprised, if only 100 members dare to be active!
"A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)"
At the very least, it is a brilliant starting point, for anyone wishing to find tunes, variations & info on tunes.
Like Jeremy says llig, if you are oh soooo smart, then let's see you come up with a better version of this resource!
Now, what was the title of that Seamus Tansey and Jim McKillop CD?
The 2 people most responsible for this thread need to show some appreciation for
each other.
This community is much more than just the intransigence of a few key players..
Peace!
No no no. This website is for people to slag on famous musicians to draw some small sliver of attention to themselves for a few minutes. Get with the program already!
great site for over forties! sorry! quote from flute teacher 'dont read discussions take tunes from session.org totally inaccurate!' it is addictive though and great contributions from people like fiddle4! Thank you and Goodnight
ITM gets new converts all the time, for whom this is an eye-opening place to be. Not everybody has been a member for its existence, so while the discussions may be trite (or tripe) to one person, they offer real advice or at least a realization that there is a difference of opinion to another. Also, any post that seems uninteresting (or repetitious), I just don't read.
I also don't believe you can say the only people participating of the many who belong are those who post on the discussion forum. I mean, if I were a sensitive lass, I'd have retired in confusion and mortification several times after being flamed by members for an ironic answer taken dead seriously. My husband lurks routinel -- he's on more than I am, he just doesn't reply.
The biggest fault i find with this board is the tendency among those who have been on it for a long time to think of it as their private message board, and answer (on occasion) anybody else's post as if someone had interrupted a private conversation. But that is, of course, part of its charm.
The worst thing about www.thesession.org is llig Leahcim....his jumping on the head of any poor fecker who just happens to enjoy learning tunes from the dots or ABC is so boring and predictable...
Mate,I hope I never get to be as good as you...
Zoukboy - pull yer neck in and you won't get yer head jumped on
When I arrived at the Herschel tonight (after way too long away that I'd completely forgot how to blow the flute), the guys were having a very animated discussion (well, rolling on the floor laughing about) the thread on here about 'irish traditional music playing to fast in thondon sessions'. (There are a few Waxy's regulars there)
So the auld yeller board still has resonance!
1 - The llig is one of the best features of the system
2 - how about a regex search for the Tunes section? Or if that's
too hard to put in, an optional normalized abc search (ie, skipping
non-alpha characters)
3 - a Paddy Fahey tune numbering convention: jeremy could arbitrarily
impose it
I also like Duijera Dubh's purgatory idea as long as there is an "opt in"
for avid readers of the tradpiper and friends
> The tune base is still a great reference; I TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, MICHAEL, AND I DON'T LEARN THEM FROM THE DOTS. There. I feel better with that out of the way. Gotta have those disclaimers handy.
Well that’s great… …for you. You obviously have a degree of nous! Not everyone does, and where “nous” is absent in the individual contributor and user of this website, the website features and moderation are not currently capable of discrimination or redemption. I’ll give you one example. One tune I submitted, Hartigan’s leaving, I botched and submitted the abc erroneously in the second half of the tune. At the time I corrected the abc and asked if Jeremy would fix the gif of the tune… …nothing. I asked again assuming he hadn’t noticed my previous message… …still nothing. I asked again year or so later, and then a year or so after that… ..not a thing in response. Then I discovered the tune had been commercially recorded note for note using my erroneous transcription! Great… …what an impoverished contribution from myself and assisted by this website!!! Lesson: people make mistakes in transcription and being human frequently don’t bother to read the comments / or use the correct abc because its far easier (path of least resistance) to use the manuscript of a (albeit incorrect) gif. It is entirely accepted that Jeremy has his work cut out making a living, let alone managing a website of this magnitude. However, with power comes a responsibility to get things right. You can’t just create a clearly influential website, with a vast database that has at least the façade of accuracy, a notably significant membership and then wash your hands of any responsibility, despite one's influence, to keep things as right as possible. If the work is too much for one man, then perhaps this “baby” maybe needs to be released to the care of a few other motivated and dedicated people who can assist?
P.S. In the course of writing this I’ve just noticed that the Dundee session at the Globe has been correctly pulled, it having died a death, so thats great. However, the Fisherman’s session in Dundee, which I submitted many years ago has been erroneously pulled sometime in the last 6 months from the site. The Fisherman’s session has been going in one form or another for over 30 years and is still going strong – so why on earth has it been pulled?
Jamie, how is your story different from someone learning a tune incorrectly via aural tradition and commercially recording it?
That said, I would love to see more editorial oversight here. Yesterday, I e-mailed someone who submitted a recording, asking that they edit the track listing to correct typos on 16% of the tune titles so that they would link to the tune files. These were transcription errors on the part of the contributor to this site, not on the liner notes to the CD. No response so far.
I have been a member here for three years, and have enjoyed the camaraderie and advice from musicians all over the world. I check in every day. I've learned a lot, and I enjoy the time I can spend at our session, which is a very small percentage of my musical time.
I read the dots, and it works for me, since that's what I do all week. I go out of my way to ignore the posts of the the few crusty, negative grumps who reside here.
"Discussions of inconsequential trite" - apart from the 6277 comments submitted by the originator of this discussion, of course.
... and not only that, I checked through al the tunes that he has submitted, and not one of them contains an error! He certainly has the right to criticise.
Here are the stats:
Number of tunes submitted: 0
Errors: 0
I did submit a tune once. Jeremy deleted it. I don't know why, it was a bog standard diddley tune you will hear every night in most sessions around the world.
My personal favourite irritation is when people post links that have absolutely nothing to do with Irish music, but whatever else this one is, it's neither inconsequential nor trite...
True, bb. I hate reading music myself. In fact, if I ever look at a sheet of it, I get dots in front of my eyes. Much better to play by ear, even if by doing so you get a stiff neck (but this can be avoided by swapping between alternate ears).
But people who can write music can also read it. And llig has just admitted to submitting a tune! Was it this one, by any chance, llig?
X:1
T: The Bog Standard Irish Jig
M 6/8
L: 1/8
K: G
|:diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum.:|
|:diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum.:|
Is so, it's not really Irish and so perhaps it shouldn't be on this site anyway. At the sessions that I go to, if any unfortunate newcomer leads of a set with it, most of the regulars put their instruments down in disgust and stomp over to the bar to get their glasses refilled with ale or other drink of their choice.
Maybe that is why it was rejected. Hmm .. Perhaps llig is harbouring a grudge ...
... is that what this discussion is really about, then?
I do agree though with llig's point that we shouldn't be using this site to share music. For example, if a tune had 40 notes in it, and there were 40 musicians at a session, each musician would only get to play one note each. That would be very boring. And what if you were taking a quick swig of beer, and missed playing your note? You'd have to wait through another 32 bars before getting a chance to play again. No good at all.
Before I started playing at my local sessions about five years ago, almost everything I knew how to play was learnt from notation in books, or from this site. I also found that the only way to remember my own ideas and compositions was to write them down. I don't think I would have the confidence to start at the sessions if I didn't have all the 'book learning' behind me. I still can't understand why this approach seems to be unacceptable to so many people. This is my own story of learning ITM. Everyone learns in different ways. When I was learning I had no-one else to play with and I didn't know anyone else who was playing this music. I didn't have the Internet and I didn't want to have lessons as I wanted to find things out for myself and develop my own style. Although I was listening to lots of ITM recordings, I didn't have the skill to be able to learn by ear, so notation was the only resource I had.
After playing, listening and talking at the sessions, I have learnt how to play by ear to some extent, but I still like to read and write music. I also play a bit of classical guitar and mandolin. I can't imagine learning any of that by ear, and no-one in that musical world would expect me to do so.
This site has has been another fantastic resource. I've learnt tunes from the notation and played them at the session. If they are not correct (in other words if they are not the versions played at my session), people are more than happy to to tell me, and I'm happy to change the way I play. If there are universally 'correct' ways of playing tunes please let us all know. My favourite tune book is O'Neil's, but aren't many of the tunes in there also 'wrong'? This site is an exchange of tunes submitted by members who have all learned tunes in different ways and in different places. I can't see how any of it can be edited or policed in the way that some have suggested.
Maybe in a few hundred years time, the session.org will be cited as a venerable source of ITM material. I can picture it now: a couple of musicians with their nuclear powered banjos arguing about how to programme an F# into the chips in the back of their (still red) necks...
This site is a great resource and your a legend jeremy for creating it, it brings people with a common interest from all around the world together and contributes greatly, in my opinion to keeping irish traditional music alive
Joel, your story is very sad. Not sad in a kind of "you're a loser" kind of way, I don't mean it like that at all, please don't take offence, you knew no better and this leviathon only encouraged you. I mean sad in a very straight forward way .. it makes me sad. I dopped my head and felt sorry for the world.
Why thank you Mr llig sir for your sympathy but please don't worry or be sad. I've had some intensive therapy for my post traumatic jig disorder and I've started on the long road to recovery (sniff). Hold your head high and reach for the stars: at least you'll clear the trees...
Ptarmigan - I'll have you know Sir, that 3000 people turned up at the Arcadia Ballroom in Cork in 1954 to hear Jimmy play his. Maybe people appreciated good music in those days. So there!
Nurse...I'm finished.
hook up with musicians on the other side of the world
Plan festivals and events
Learn tunes, although usually to help me get through the tough bits.
As an interesting insight into how felow sessioneers react to different tunes and circumstances in their sessions.
To check out tune sets on recordings I don't have or by my favourite artiste.
Sh1t I use it for loads of stuff.
Not everyone has the same approach to the music that's OK, I never look at any of the tunes I haven't heard or am learning from a recording of some sort or other.
Science Fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon once said that 90 percent of everything is crap. Much of the ore pulled out of the ground is mixed with other, less useful materials. The open nature of this website allows in a lot of crap, but without its same open nature, the 10 percent of wonderful information would not be there either. Rather than turn their nose up at the less desirable parts of the website, people need to learn to sort through it, filter out the bad, and find what they need and what they like. I prefer to look at the glass as half full, and focus on the many tunes this site has helped me learn and research, the information I have gleaned, and the fun I have had in the discussions. (Although perhaps I am mixing metaphors, and should say that I prefer to look at the glass as 10 percent full!)
I guess I should go on record as someone who owes a great deal to this site. Reading these discussions got me interested in playing in sessions in the first place.
Several years ago, I was looking for an old-timey fiddle teacher in my area, googled “fiddle”, up came this site, started reading. Seemed fun. Eventually found the local Comhaltas chapter, who suggested my current instructor/mentor. I never looked back.
Another really cool thing is that I come in daily contact with regular, semi-normal folks from around the world. It gives me a better sense about how people feel about global events, politics, philosophy, literature and so much more, stuff you cannot get in most mass media.
So, at the risk of being a typical, embarrassingly over-earnest Yank, I say I’ve met some wonderful people and made friends via this site. Learned a lot about attitudes, etiquette, history, humor (even from you, MG). I’ve got a much broader perspective of This Music because of this site.
I visit this site very frequently. The archive of information that has been created here is simply amazing. I love being able to search for specific notes from a tune I've heard somewhere, scroll through results until I find the tune I'm thinking of, and then sort through the recordings until I find one I already own, and hear a recorded version of it.
Invaluable. I don't know how many times I've heard a tune on the radio and wondered what it was and where I could hear other recorded settings of it. The session.org fulfills that need in a single site, with the tune fragment function followed by the Recordings pages. When those fail, it usually takes only minutes for someone to answer my "tune name needed." And though I've never learned a single tune from the Tunes section -- nor am I likely to -- I've certainly been able to find recordings or discover subtle variations and lovely settings that (hopefully) inform my playing of the tune.
I don't think Ilig exists in real life - he is an AI construct that jeremy
cleverly programmed into the site. What they used to call an
"expert system".
I haven't the time time to read every post but from a quick scan I think we're all on the same wavelength. This site has to be the best resource imaginable for a traditional musician. It enables us to discuss all sorts of things relevant to session playing (types of tunes, tune speeds, tune sources, notes versus ear, optimum number of ???????s in a session, etc, etc) that time doesn't allow in a real life situation. The tunes section is also a great resource and irrespective of some newly composeds and also-rans there are far more great tunes in there - it should be remembered that there will be very forgettable tunes in any collection whether it's printed or a recording. Another great resource is the way events or recordings get flagged up as very few of us have the time to view every Youtube or Comhaltaslive clip for ourselves.
If there were Oscars for trad websites, then this one would win hands down - Many thanks Jeremy for creating and maintaining thesession.org and long may it continue!
oooo, another thread where we thank jeremy for his html skillz. seems to be a new one whenever i check the site.
I don't post much, but I do check the discussions. llig's kvetching is entertaining, and I like to see what Will CPT is arguing about so I can give him crap about it at the session later.
The tunes section is useful, even though I find myself clicking on the "comments" tab rather than the dots tab.
I knew there was something. I'm a bloody Mancunian too. I've been away for a few days and when I come back there are two threads on page one about learning tunes or not from dots or not. And some of you guys dare to criticise Michael. He talks more consistent sense than all except about five other people around here (who are as good, but not better) and he does us the honour, unlike some of the self-indulgent clap-trappers, of keeping it brief and pithy. Just shut up and listen some of you. I don't know if you know who you are, unfortunately.
ha ha, that reminded me of the scene in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers where the youngest brother says, "I stand by Adam". And Adam says, "OK, just don't stand too close".
Yes, it's good. Thanks in part to Jeremy's initial idea, and his simple design. I'm grateful Jeremy started all this.
But what really makes it fun and helpful and worthwhile is all the contributions from all of us. Like any good session, it doesn't amount to much without constructive participation.
I was kind of thinking in a pseudo-philosophical sort of way - as in "Knowledge is good.". But also in a more serious kind of way, as in "not evil" since there is so much crap out there on the internet and world wide web.
Yes, indeed, this website is a force for "good".
I will never doubt that Jeremy started a force for good. However. The myriad of people logging on to learn tunes from here is without a doubt a backwards step.
Most sensible people hear a good tune and will then use the dots simply as a guide to a tune's basic outline and check the comments to see if there's a better version of the way you've heard it played. The tune details info also guides you into finding other recordings of the same tune to listen and learn from.
Nuthin' "backwards" about that, in my opinion.
Discussions of inconsequential trite.
--Some are, agreed, and they go over old topics. And these seem to crop up more regularly of late, and it's a pain in the whole trying to filter through the increasing amount of dross. But some are classics of humour, warmth, eclectic intellectual debate: and not only that there are even some good ones about the music.
A myriad of sessions no longer in existence.
--Yeah, so what? Actually it could prove to be very useful historical record. For example a pub quite near me in Peckham, called The London and Brighton, used to host a session with Bobby Casey, Danny Meehan, Raymond Roland, et al. That is real trad music history. Yet the pub nowadays is a dump. But it has history.
Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
Yeah, I know. But think how much more keechhy underpants would be on here if they all contributed.
A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)
Databases are like that. So what? The problems we must encounter in 2008 divining a setting for a tune on here must be miniscule compared to players in bygone days, who must have had to actively search and search, and listen and listen, and listen and search, just to get a bliddy tune. We get it after a few mouse clicks...poor wee michael...you're not an only child perchance?
I'm mostly a by-ear-learning person. But if I hear a good one and manage to extricate the correct name after the player has done it, I may well check it out here to get it registered in me noddle before attempting to play it. Again, the fact that there may be several tunes claiming the one name and several names claiming the one tune, it's just a case of machete-ing your way through the jungle to get where you want to be.
One thing I don't like is getting nasty personal emails via this site. But then I do like getting, and responding to, emails from well-wishers and like minders.
Was it Churchill who said we owe so much to so few? In this case we owe so much to one guy, Jeremy, but he couldn't have done it wthout stalwarts like Will and some others.
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
Yeah, I know. But think how much more keechhy underpants would be on here if they all contributed."
Hmm. A bit of an assumption there, old chap. I wouldn't bank on the fact that the hundred who post are the best , most non-keechhy underpantish people who read this hallowed list. In fact, I wouldn't mind betting that at least half of the 49,900 silent majority laugh their socks off at the sheer underpantishnessitude of it all when we're "at our best."
KML - almost. Churchill's words need to be taken in context, given their gravity:
"The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the world war by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."
I'm laughing my socks off right now at the combined might of our own sheer keechhyunderpantedness. But yes, I agree Steve. But if all 50,000 contributed, just by sheer weight of numbers the keechhyunderpantedness factor would outweigh the normal goodchap/chapessness factor by about 10:1. Then it really would become just a load of unreadable drivel...even more than that with my contributions...
Thanks Domnull for correcting me with the quote. Powerful stuff, Churchill's speeches. The RAF story in the Battle of Britain is truly remarkable, and it is true, we would now be speaking German were it not for those lads. Actually, the speaking German bit wouldn't have been so bad, it's the Nazi bit, saluting the Fuhrer and grassing up the parents or your mates if they were jews or gays or whatever that I didn't really warm to...hmm, but maybe that's just me being difficult...never mind, a wee clip for ye's: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGp0hCxSg98
I put in 2 "h"s in keechhy so that people might be prompted to pronounce it Keech as in the Scots loCH not Keetch as in the English, bitch...or twitch...or maybe....Kitsch.....
I like this web site because I can discuss this music which I like to play with other musicians besides the ones at the local sessions. I like talking about music with the other local musicians but it is also nice to be able to expand your discussion group to include other musicians besides just the local ones whom you play with regularly. Also, after playing music more-or-less irregularly with this group of mixed nuts since 1995, we are running out of new topics to discuss.
An intriguing mixture of laissez faire and state intervention.
Educational.
But if the well-meant spreading of musical knowledge is the aim, then give us the EDIT BUTTON! How much sh*te would have been swatted away from the fan over the years?
Because the number of musicians at the local sessions is usually no more than ten or fifteen and I have been talking to them and playing music with them for thirteen years, there are very few new topics to discuss with this small but dedicated group of mixed nuts.
However, since this web site has thousands of members, I don't think the members of the session.org will run out of topics to discuss.
I found it hard to believe, as Michael said, "We ran out of topics to discuss here 5 years ago"
So I searched back to the middle of October 2003.
Hmmm . . . you may be onto something llig.
banjos, banjos banjos...
Posted on October 14th 2003 by Greenwiggle
www.thesession.org
www.thesession.org
Discussions of inconsequential trite.
A myriad of sessions no longer in existence.
Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)
discuss ....
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Positive thinking, Michael. That's the spirit.
I look forward to seeing the site that you come up with.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Jeremy
Re: www.thesession.org
Hi Michael
I have been a member for a year or so now and even tho I dont post a lot, I visit this site 3 to 4 times a week for news views and information.
I have always found the members here have responded to any of my requests quickly and accurately also the information I have aquired from the site I woud never have collated elsewhere so quickly, I really appreciate this boards existance and the time and effort put in to answer queries, questions, quests even by like mided people all over the world is commendable plus.
I was fortunate enough to travel around Ireland in July/August this year and with advice and guidance from members on this site we had a fantastic trip knowing where and when to go, to me there is no other site like it..
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Dave_
Re: www.thesession.org
PS Im Scottish live in Spain and play Flute and Whistles in local celtic band
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Dave_
Re: www.thesession.org
The site is an excellent resource. The archival material in the discussion forum is absolutely great and is a pooling of knowledge and views on pretty much all aspects of the genre and instruments that would be impossible to efficiency construct or access without the vehicle of the site.
The site could probably do with a 'purgatory' section, where transgressioners could be 'dragged and dropped' for a stint, quite free to speak with other purgateers and view the public forum, but not enter 'heaven' at least for a while until they have had a good scrubbing (in the nicest sense of the word). Sessioneers could view the purging members discussions among themselves and and pray for them, and possibly make sacrifices for their redemption. It may work for some of them.
Peace be with you.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: www.thesession.org
He he.....
I wonder if Dave_'s eyes are brown...like his nose! Only joking...
I like this site a lot - it's fun. I don't take it seriously, and my only issue is with people who take it, or themselves, too seriously...
It's just a laugh, what's wrong with that?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: www.thesession.org
On the other hand, Jeremy, you could always solicit some advertisers to the site and help defray the costs and pain of administering it. I can imagine a huge range of providers of goods and services who would find the clientele here fascinating prospects!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: www.thesession.org
Hi Skip
I've had some great laughs on here too; however sometimes I find that you have to telegraph the fact that you're being ironic, which sort of defeats the purpose...
Can you imagine thesession.org 20 years down the line where everyone has webcams and you can see how ugly everyone else is??
Scary!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: www.thesession.org
We can see if these guys wanna advertise. I think the clientele of the site would be particularly suited to the product on offer:
http://www.subtlebutt.com/
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by skip canlon
Re: www.thesession.org
Hi Skip
Eyes are green naturally...lol
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Dave_
Re: www.thesession.org
Might help with the scuttlebutt as well.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: www.thesession.org
Whether your observations are correct or otherwise, Michael, you're still here. Therefore, the site must have some merits?
"Discussions of inconsequential trite."
The discussions are only as good as the people who contribute. Many are indeed irrelevant and several subjects have been "done to death" already. However, we have to be kind to new members who think they are asking the questions for the first time (You put me in my place over that one, yourself, if I recall.
)
"A myriad of sessions no longer in existence"
A controversial subject this. I reckon that they(Extant sessions) could and should be "weeded" but Jeremy likes to leave them "live" to indicate that there might still be hope?
However, it's also "up to us" to notify him and, at least, update the comments section re the current state of affairs.
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active"
What is active? Many more people use The Session and its facilities than actually contribute to the discussion forum.
"A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)"
The part in parenthesis is true but no-one is suggesting that you should share tunes via notation ALONE. The tune section here is just one facility at our disposal.
Also, much of what is heard and played in the real world of sessions is also "riddled with inaccuracies".
You sometimes have to visit a few real sessions before you hear "the correct" (Is there such a thing?)setting of a tune.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Back for a while
Re: www.thesession.org
I've actually been running a fieldwork project on you all for several years now...
...just kidding. I've really enjoyed being able to listen to the advice and opinions of people around the globe on a ridiculous number of topics related to this music. I'm not always around a lot of people with extensive knowledge and familiarity with the tradition, so those of you that are are a welcome breath of fresh air and source of different perspectives and useful information.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by jasonb
Re: www.thesession.org
It's great. I get really fed up with it at times. But I'm always drawn back. I've learnt more since I've been involved with this site than at any other time. Strangely - or not, depending on how you look at it - I've learnt the most when I've been in one of my particularly helpful phases. (I.E. I've learnt more from being helpful, rather than from being helped, though of course I've learnt from that too.)
I appreciate the design of the site, Jeremy. I appreciate its simplicity. I also appreciate the fact that, for the most part, this place is unusually helpful for places on the net. Compare our occasional 'flame wars' with the seemingly almost constant attacks and nastiness on Mudcat, for instance. And our lightheartedness compared with the overly serious and sometimes pompous nature of those flute forum thingies (whatever they're called).
The tunes section is actually very useful, once you know how to use it properly. If you "eschew" it, as Michael has always said he does, you won't find that out.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
My take on www.thesession.org
A thriving web community populated by people who share some common interests with me.
A wonderful place to meet people from around the world, and develop close friendships.
A tune archive that has had at *least* one transcription of every tune I have ever learned.
A fantastic resource of knowledge about pretty much everything related to ITM (if the questions are posed properly).
An amusing place to spend some time away from the stresses of every-day life.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Reverend
Re: www.thesession.org
Nice wind-up, llig. Reverse psychology, like, eh?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by tuckered out
Re: www.thesession.org
Pffft. What Pete and mickray said.
MG, you are a veritable rock of constancy on this site.
I have found the ebb and flow of this site fascinating; that's why I'm still checking in.
The tune base is still a great reference; I TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, MICHAEL, AND I DON'T LEARN THEM FROM THE DOTS. There. I feel better with that out of the way. Gotta have those disclaimers handy.
It was raining this weekend, so I actually got in my car and drove for a half hour to a tune-learning session in the next town. After learning a few new ones, the group set off into the familiars--tunes that I had learned years ago when I found out that you could DO that sort of thing. And for a moment, I got all smug and did the mental-eye roll thing. "Oh lord, they are still playing the same things.....jeezihatethattunegododwehavetoplaythatonepleasepleasedon'tsayceltic...
Then I realized that it was fun and who cares. So that's the whole point of this rant. It's fun. Who cares? I don't have to prove my fiddle-manhood (smirk) to anyone anymore. If something doesn't interest me, I don't do it. It's very liberating.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Batlady
Re: www.thesession.org
Indeed. "Jeez, this buffet table really sucks"--says the guy who keeps going back to it for more.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by tuckered out
Re: www.thesession.org
Sure, some of the threads here are silly, but it's easy to disregard them if they're not your cuppa joe.
Besides, it's a healthy sign of diversity here that not every thread appeals to every person. I *like* it that some of the younger members do slagging threads and write in text speak. I like that some of the old geezers here routinely complain about the decline of the music. I like that someone else can post a question about acoustic amps for fiddles. I don't have to read all of it or any of it to appreciate that this community is more diverse and participatory than it has been at any previous time in its short life.
Heh, and I DO learn tunes from the abcs here sometimes. It's not a problem when the alphabet soup is informed by 30 years of listening to and playing this music--there's nothing wrong with picking up tunes this way. No different from Kevin Burke seeing the Market Town jig in O'Neill's and playing it off the page. If you're really immersed in this music, the inky stuff is just another source of tunes.
All that said, the best part of this site is the people it's connected me with--some truly wonderful friends now. That alone is worth the price of admission.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
Anyway, we haven't been able to talk about it all day ...
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: www.thesession.org
I don't care if there are only a couple of active members as long as what they say is of interest
this is a website not a political party or a commercial enetrpise. why worry about these things?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: www.thesession.org
LOL: "I play tunes, and I vote!"
Sorry, but the session lobbyists just don't have the clout that bankers and oil companies do.....
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
well maye if we made some suggestions where things could be improved the 'guy behind the curtain' (Jeremy-not Dick Cheney) as it were might look at the alternatives.
Part of the problem on the tune data base is that most of that stuff was put in with things done by hand or pretty primitive software. (I know the first thing I submitted something has some screw ups...I tried to fix them but nothing ever showed up) Maybe there is something better and the data base can be updated.
I use the data bas to more verify stuff I am learning, but not too often as a base source because the tunes often are ont exactly right or have strange things due to abc translation.
On the other hand, the exchange of information here is better than any place (including chiff and fipple) else.
And the Session data base is hopelessly out of date. But that's a function I think of the economy and the changes it has caused on people having (or not) regular session venues because the pub was torn down for condos or an car park for an office building. Or in the case of big cities-the need for bars to jam more drinking customers in with kareoke, c/w, basketball etc to pay the rent in the new high rise (another thread here)
So maybe things need to be made more current.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by zippydw
Re: www.thesession.org
Here's what I *really* think:
This site is a very ... VERY ... good analogy for an actual real-life session.
I'm often amazed by how like a session it is. People chipping in, sometimes with something that makes you sit up and think: ooh, I like that one! I agree with that one (or that one agrees with me). People nattering in between the tunes, about the tunes, about something completely different, about their new fiddle/whistle/flute/amp ... or about nothing musical at all.
And you get to know some of them over a period of time. People *and* tunes.
btw, FWIW (c, i cn do txt-spk evn tho im old, will
) I don't think Michael was using reverse psychology at all ...
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: www.thesession.org
Heh, I think Michael just prefers a high-grade session. In that respect, this is a very open, inclusive session, as it should be. It's part beginner session, part intermediate, part advanced. Saving grace being that we don't have to hear it all at once. But it's certainly richer for its wide range of interests and abilities.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
Either llig is winding us all up, in which case, feel free to take the bait.
Or, oooops! ..... he's taking himself too seriously ..... again!
.... & we all know what happened, the last time he did that:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19215
"Discussions of inconsequential trite." ....
Aye, just like those at any good session .. & usually great crack too!
"A myriad of sessions no longer in existence." ....
.. interesting archive though!
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active." ....
Aye, but don't forget all those musicians out there, who make good use of this site every day, without actually posting themselves.
Mind you, when you see many of the aggressive, know it all, put downs which are fired against first posts from new members here, from mature, experienced musicians who should really know better, I'm not really so surprised, if only 100 members dare to be active!
"A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)"
At the very least, it is a brilliant starting point, for anyone wishing to find tunes, variations & info on tunes.
Like Jeremy says llig, if you are oh soooo smart, then let's see you come up with a better version of this resource!
Now, what was the title of that Seamus Tansey and Jim McKillop CD?
Oh yes, now I remember, it was ...
TO HELL WITH THE BEGRUDGERS!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: www.thesession.org
The 2 people most responsible for this thread need to show some appreciation for
each other.
This community is much more than just the intransigence of a few key players..
Peace!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: www.thesession.org
I quite enjoy some of the "Inconsequential trite" whatever that is.
I can always contact a session host before I attend one, so it doesn't matter if it's now obsolete.
I'm quite glad all 50,000 of us aren't active at the same time - I'd never get a word in edgeways if they were.
I will decide for myself if the tunes are useless or inaccurate.
What I do know is that I enjoy this site and I was quite disappointed when I couldn't get on it earlier.
I wonder what the site would look like if it was run by Llig?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by bowburner
Re: www.thesession.org
No no no. This website is for people to slag on famous musicians to draw some small sliver of attention to themselves for a few minutes. Get with the program already!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: www.thesession.org
"The 2 people most responsible for this thread ..."
Sorry, you've confused me again, Random. One of them is presumably Michael. Who's the other?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: www.thesession.org
True, but there is more.
Humour for instance.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: www.thesession.org
benhall1 read the title of the thread. It is right there. Sorry for being so cryptic.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: www.thesession.org
Well, I must be inordinately thick. I don't get it.
I often don't get what you say, Random. And I do try ... 'cos I can tell (even if I can't understand you) that you're nice. Really.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: www.thesession.org
The only thing wrong with this site is the 'Annual Reunion'. I seem to be the only one who turns up ?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: www.thesession.org
#1
The founder
The reason we are here.
The Whiz.
The guy who posted lots & lots of tunes.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: www.thesession.org
Thank you Mr Llig. I didn't know about the other bits, I thought it was just a discussion board.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: www.thesession.org
great site for over forties! sorry! quote from flute teacher 'dont read discussions take tunes from session.org totally inaccurate!' it is addictive though and great contributions from people like fiddle4! Thank you and Goodnight
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by lilyot
Re: www.thesession.org
Hey FR, you play a 'SHAND MARINO THREE ROW'
.......... & you wonder why you are the only one who turns up for the 'Annual Reunion'!!!!!
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Ptarmigan
Re: www.thesession.org
"Discussions of inconsequential trite."
Interesting. I've never seen trite used as a noun before.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: www.thesession.org
have you ever anything good to say llig, would love the pleasure of meeting you LoL
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by CFlood
Re: www.thesession.org
ITM gets new converts all the time, for whom this is an eye-opening place to be. Not everybody has been a member for its existence, so while the discussions may be trite (or tripe) to one person, they offer real advice or at least a realization that there is a difference of opinion to another. Also, any post that seems uninteresting (or repetitious), I just don't read.
I also don't believe you can say the only people participating of the many who belong are those who post on the discussion forum. I mean, if I were a sensitive lass, I'd have retired in confusion and mortification several times after being flamed by members for an ironic answer taken dead seriously. My husband lurks routinel -- he's on more than I am, he just doesn't reply.
The biggest fault i find with this board is the tendency among those who have been on it for a long time to think of it as their private message board, and answer (on occasion) anybody else's post as if someone had interrupted a private conversation. But that is, of course, part of its charm.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Mandogal
Re: www.thesession.org
The worst thing about www.thesession.org is llig Leahcim....his jumping on the head of any poor fecker who just happens to enjoy learning tunes from the dots or ABC is so boring and predictable...
Mate,I hope I never get to be as good as you...
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by zoukboy
Re: www.thesession.org
Zoukboy - pull yer neck in and you won't get yer head jumped on
When I arrived at the Herschel tonight (after way too long away that I'd completely forgot how to blow the flute), the guys were having a very animated discussion (well, rolling on the floor laughing about) the thread on here about 'irish traditional music playing to fast in thondon sessions'. (There are a few Waxy's regulars there)
So the auld yeller board still has resonance!
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Ottery
Re: www.thesession.org
1 - The llig is one of the best features of the system
2 - how about a regex search for the Tunes section? Or if that's
too hard to put in, an optional normalized abc search (ie, skipping
non-alpha characters)
3 - a Paddy Fahey tune numbering convention: jeremy could arbitrarily
impose it
I also like Duijera Dubh's purgatory idea as long as there is an "opt in"
for avid readers of the tradpiper and friends
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Hup
Re: www.thesession.org
Without written records we'd all be chippin' away at our stone tools
right now and there would be no global warming - hey, maybe dots
_are_ bad!
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Hup
Re: www.thesession.org
> The tune base is still a great reference; I TAKE THEM WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, MICHAEL, AND I DON'T LEARN THEM FROM THE DOTS. There. I feel better with that out of the way. Gotta have those disclaimers handy.
Well that’s great… …for you. You obviously have a degree of nous! Not everyone does, and where “nous” is absent in the individual contributor and user of this website, the website features and moderation are not currently capable of discrimination or redemption. I’ll give you one example. One tune I submitted, Hartigan’s leaving, I botched and submitted the abc erroneously in the second half of the tune. At the time I corrected the abc and asked if Jeremy would fix the gif of the tune… …nothing. I asked again assuming he hadn’t noticed my previous message… …still nothing. I asked again year or so later, and then a year or so after that… ..not a thing in response. Then I discovered the tune had been commercially recorded note for note using my erroneous transcription! Great… …what an impoverished contribution from myself and assisted by this website!!! Lesson: people make mistakes in transcription and being human frequently don’t bother to read the comments / or use the correct abc because its far easier (path of least resistance) to use the manuscript of a (albeit incorrect) gif. It is entirely accepted that Jeremy has his work cut out making a living, let alone managing a website of this magnitude. However, with power comes a responsibility to get things right. You can’t just create a clearly influential website, with a vast database that has at least the façade of accuracy, a notably significant membership and then wash your hands of any responsibility, despite one's influence, to keep things as right as possible. If the work is too much for one man, then perhaps this “baby” maybe needs to be released to the care of a few other motivated and dedicated people who can assist?
P.S. In the course of writing this I’ve just noticed that the Dundee session at the Globe has been correctly pulled, it having died a death, so thats great. However, the Fisherman’s session in Dundee, which I submitted many years ago has been erroneously pulled sometime in the last 6 months from the site. The Fisherman’s session has been going in one form or another for over 30 years and is still going strong – so why on earth has it been pulled?
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Jamie
Re: www.thesession.org
How odd. There are some sessions listed for Edinburgh that have definitely bit the dust as well but live on in this database.
You or Alistair or some other regular should resubmit it.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: www.thesession.org
Jamie, how is your story different from someone learning a tune incorrectly via aural tradition and commercially recording it?
That said, I would love to see more editorial oversight here. Yesterday, I e-mailed someone who submitted a recording, asking that they edit the track listing to correct typos on 16% of the tune titles so that they would link to the tune files. These were transcription errors on the part of the contributor to this site, not on the liner notes to the CD. No response so far.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: www.thesession.org
I have been a member here for three years, and have enjoyed the camaraderie and advice from musicians all over the world. I check in every day. I've learned a lot, and I enjoy the time I can spend at our session, which is a very small percentage of my musical time.
I read the dots, and it works for me, since that's what I do all week. I go out of my way to ignore the posts of the the few crusty, negative grumps who reside here.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: www.thesession.org
I happen to enjoy this site the for what it's worth, which are many thanx.
Much more promising than the 'orgasm workshops'.
It's all in good fun; why be so trivial and concerned with human effort anyways.
Hope that wasn't the shot heard 'round the world.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: www.thesession.org
"crusty negative grumps" live here. Like this:
http://beckagatorphotography.webs.com/grump.jpg
trad caption needed.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: www.thesession.org
I go out of my way to ignore the ones who think they know it all but cant actually play. At least most of the grumps on here have a slight clue.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: www.thesession.org
Yay, bb!
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by skerries
Re: www.thesession.org
"Discussions of inconsequential trite" - apart from the 6277 comments submitted by the originator of this discussion, of course.
... and not only that, I checked through al the tunes that he has submitted, and not one of them contains an error! He certainly has the right to criticise.
Here are the stats:
Number of tunes submitted: 0
Errors: 0
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: www.thesession.org
I did submit a tune once. Jeremy deleted it. I don't know why, it was a bog standard diddley tune you will hear every night in most sessions around the world.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
In fairness Mix - submitting tunes is not the only way to contribute to this site. Lots of people cant actually read music you know.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: www.thesession.org
or prefer not to
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
My personal favourite irritation is when people post links that have absolutely nothing to do with Irish music, but whatever else this one is, it's neither inconsequential nor trite...
http://tinyurl.com/4119ke
and if you want to go back to sleep after that one, here's some very nice photographs to soothe your nerves and to cheer you up (if you need cheering)
http://tinyurl.com/4dbwgd
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: www.thesession.org
True, bb. I hate reading music myself. In fact, if I ever look at a sheet of it, I get dots in front of my eyes. Much better to play by ear, even if by doing so you get a stiff neck (but this can be avoided by swapping between alternate ears).
But people who can write music can also read it. And llig has just admitted to submitting a tune! Was it this one, by any chance, llig?
X:1
T: The Bog Standard Irish Jig
M 6/8
L: 1/8
K: G
|:diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum.:|
|:diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley diddley
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum
diddlely, diddlely, diddley dum.:|
Is so, it's not really Irish and so perhaps it shouldn't be on this site anyway. At the sessions that I go to, if any unfortunate newcomer leads of a set with it, most of the regulars put their instruments down in disgust and stomp over to the bar to get their glasses refilled with ale or other drink of their choice.
Maybe that is why it was rejected. Hmm .. Perhaps llig is harbouring a grudge ...
... is that what this discussion is really about, then?
I do agree though with llig's point that we shouldn't be using this site to share music. For example, if a tune had 40 notes in it, and there were 40 musicians at a session, each musician would only get to play one note each. That would be very boring. And what if you were taking a quick swig of beer, and missed playing your note? You'd have to wait through another 32 bars before getting a chance to play again. No good at all.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: www.thesession.org
Before I started playing at my local sessions about five years ago, almost everything I knew how to play was learnt from notation in books, or from this site. I also found that the only way to remember my own ideas and compositions was to write them down. I don't think I would have the confidence to start at the sessions if I didn't have all the 'book learning' behind me. I still can't understand why this approach seems to be unacceptable to so many people. This is my own story of learning ITM. Everyone learns in different ways. When I was learning I had no-one else to play with and I didn't know anyone else who was playing this music. I didn't have the Internet and I didn't want to have lessons as I wanted to find things out for myself and develop my own style. Although I was listening to lots of ITM recordings, I didn't have the skill to be able to learn by ear, so notation was the only resource I had.
After playing, listening and talking at the sessions, I have learnt how to play by ear to some extent, but I still like to read and write music. I also play a bit of classical guitar and mandolin. I can't imagine learning any of that by ear, and no-one in that musical world would expect me to do so.
This site has has been another fantastic resource. I've learnt tunes from the notation and played them at the session. If they are not correct (in other words if they are not the versions played at my session), people are more than happy to to tell me, and I'm happy to change the way I play. If there are universally 'correct' ways of playing tunes please let us all know. My favourite tune book is O'Neil's, but aren't many of the tunes in there also 'wrong'? This site is an exchange of tunes submitted by members who have all learned tunes in different ways and in different places. I can't see how any of it can be edited or policed in the way that some have suggested.
Maybe in a few hundred years time, the session.org will be cited as a venerable source of ITM material. I can picture it now: a couple of musicians with their nuclear powered banjos arguing about how to programme an F# into the chips in the back of their (still red) necks...
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Joel McDermott
Re: www.thesession.org
This site is a great resource and your a legend jeremy for creating it, it brings people with a common interest from all around the world together and contributes greatly, in my opinion to keeping irish traditional music alive
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Allissa
Re: www.thesession.org
Its great!!
Never found as many goat-beaters collected together in one place, ready to be wound-up.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: www.thesession.org
tee he
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Joel, your story is very sad. Not sad in a kind of "you're a loser" kind of way, I don't mean it like that at all, please don't take offence, you knew no better and this leviathon only encouraged you. I mean sad in a very straight forward way .. it makes me sad. I dopped my head and felt sorry for the world.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
I like Michael's new word. Had to check it out: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/dop
"let's go to the bar for a dop" it says
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by RichardB
Re: www.thesession.org
Why thank you Mr llig sir for your sympathy but please don't worry or be sad. I've had some intensive therapy for my post traumatic jig disorder and I've started on the long road to recovery (sniff). Hold your head high and reach for the stars: at least you'll clear the trees...
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Joel McDermott
Re: www.thesession.org
Ptarmigan - I'll have you know Sir, that 3000 people turned up at the Arcadia Ballroom in Cork in 1954 to hear Jimmy play his. Maybe people appreciated good music in those days. So there!
Nurse...I'm finished.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: www.thesession.org
Doffing his head isn't it?!
Multi talented llig.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: www.thesession.org
I have used the session website to.
hook up with musicians on the other side of the world
Plan festivals and events
Learn tunes, although usually to help me get through the tough bits.
As an interesting insight into how felow sessioneers react to different tunes and circumstances in their sessions.
To check out tune sets on recordings I don't have or by my favourite artiste.
Sh1t I use it for loads of stuff.
Not everyone has the same approach to the music that's OK, I never look at any of the tunes I haven't heard or am learning from a recording of some sort or other.
Well done J I think it's a great resource.
Andy
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Andyras1
Re: www.thesession.org
Andyras1 sums it up - thesession.org is essential to life as we know it.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by RichardB
Re: www.thesession.org
Science Fiction writer Theodore Sturgeon once said that 90 percent of everything is crap. Much of the ore pulled out of the ground is mixed with other, less useful materials. The open nature of this website allows in a lot of crap, but without its same open nature, the 10 percent of wonderful information would not be there either. Rather than turn their nose up at the less desirable parts of the website, people need to learn to sort through it, filter out the bad, and find what they need and what they like. I prefer to look at the glass as half full, and focus on the many tunes this site has helped me learn and research, the information I have gleaned, and the fun I have had in the discussions. (Although perhaps I am mixing metaphors, and should say that I prefer to look at the glass as 10 percent full!)
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: www.thesession.org
I guess I should go on record as someone who owes a great deal to this site. Reading these discussions got me interested in playing in sessions in the first place.
Several years ago, I was looking for an old-timey fiddle teacher in my area, googled “fiddle”, up came this site, started reading. Seemed fun. Eventually found the local Comhaltas chapter, who suggested my current instructor/mentor. I never looked back.
Another really cool thing is that I come in daily contact with regular, semi-normal folks from around the world. It gives me a better sense about how people feel about global events, politics, philosophy, literature and so much more, stuff you cannot get in most mass media.
So, at the risk of being a typical, embarrassingly over-earnest Yank, I say I’ve met some wonderful people and made friends via this site. Learned a lot about attitudes, etiquette, history, humor (even from you, MG). I’ve got a much broader perspective of This Music because of this site.
Jeremy, thanks.
Cheers.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by fidkid
Re: www.thesession.org
I visit this site very frequently. The archive of information that has been created here is simply amazing. I love being able to search for specific notes from a tune I've heard somewhere, scroll through results until I find the tune I'm thinking of, and then sort through the recordings until I find one I already own, and hear a recorded version of it.
So yeah, thanks Jeremy.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Nathan G
Re: www.thesession.org
Aw, I'm blushing now.
Thanks, llig, for sparking this off.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Jeremy
Re: www.thesession.org
Invaluable. I don't know how many times I've heard a tune on the radio and wondered what it was and where I could hear other recorded settings of it. The session.org fulfills that need in a single site, with the tune fragment function followed by the Recordings pages. When those fail, it usually takes only minutes for someone to answer my "tune name needed." And though I've never learned a single tune from the Tunes section -- nor am I likely to -- I've certainly been able to find recordings or discover subtle variations and lovely settings that (hopefully) inform my playing of the tune.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by alec b
Re: www.thesession.org
llig,
One question... Do you ever wear a kilt?
I lurk mostly, but I love this place. Lots of brightness here.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by gw
Re: www.thesession.org
gw, I think, in asking that question, you are assuming that llig (aka Michael Gill) is Scottish ...
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: www.thesession.org
I am assuming he's a Scot...
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by gw
Re: www.thesession.org
I don't think Ilig exists in real life - he is an AI construct that jeremy
cleverly programmed into the site. What they used to call an
"expert system".
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Hup
Re: www.thesession.org
He's not a Scot. He's sais.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: www.thesession.org
Actually, I'm a Mancunian.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Should'nt that be spelt with a 'W' ? ....
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by zoukboy
Re: www.thesession.org
This is a great site - you can find a lot of stuff here you just can't find elsewhere. Jeremy's done a great job in devising it and maintaining it.
The Discussions are the least important part, but a great outlet
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Bren
Re: www.thesession.org
I haven't the time time to read every post but from a quick scan I think we're all on the same wavelength. This site has to be the best resource imaginable for a traditional musician. It enables us to discuss all sorts of things relevant to session playing (types of tunes, tune speeds, tune sources, notes versus ear, optimum number of ???????s in a session, etc, etc) that time doesn't allow in a real life situation. The tunes section is also a great resource and irrespective of some newly composeds and also-rans there are far more great tunes in there - it should be remembered that there will be very forgettable tunes in any collection whether it's printed or a recording. Another great resource is the way events or recordings get flagged up as very few of us have the time to view every Youtube or Comhaltaslive clip for ourselves.
If there were Oscars for trad websites, then this one would win hands down - Many thanks Jeremy for creating and maintaining thesession.org and long may it continue!
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: www.thesession.org
oooo, another thread where we thank jeremy for his html skillz. seems to be a new one whenever i check the site.
I don't post much, but I do check the discussions. llig's kvetching is entertaining, and I like to see what Will CPT is arguing about so I can give him crap about it at the session later.
The tunes section is useful, even though I find myself clicking on the "comments" tab rather than the dots tab.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by polkageist
Re: www.thesession.org
Also, Hang the Bohdran was a great tune. I don't see why it was deleted.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by polkageist
Re: www.thesession.org
llig is 'the mancunian candidate'. lol.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by fiddleruairi
Re: www.thesession.org
I knew there was something. I'm a bloody Mancunian too. I've been away for a few days and when I come back there are two threads on page one about learning tunes or not from dots or not. And some of you guys dare to criticise Michael. He talks more consistent sense than all except about five other people around here (who are as good, but not better) and he does us the honour, unlike some of the self-indulgent clap-trappers, of keeping it brief and pithy. Just shut up and listen some of you. I don't know if you know who you are, unfortunately.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: www.thesession.org
ha ha, that reminded me of the scene in Seven Brides for Seven Brothers where the youngest brother says, "I stand by Adam". And Adam says, "OK, just don't stand too close".
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Silver bow, I hope this means I can expect some crap from you at tomorrow night's session....
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
Don't worry, Michael. I know I fart a lot but I thought you needed help.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: www.thesession.org
Huzzah, huzzah, huzzah for Jeremy!
# Posted on October 9th 2008 by vonnieestes
Re: www.thesession.org
This website is good.
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by halfwaythere
Re: www.thesession.org
Yes, it's good. Thanks in part to Jeremy's initial idea, and his simple design. I'm grateful Jeremy started all this.
But what really makes it fun and helpful and worthwhile is all the contributions from all of us. Like any good session, it doesn't amount to much without constructive participation.
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
I was kind of thinking in a pseudo-philosophical sort of way - as in "Knowledge is good.". But also in a more serious kind of way, as in "not evil" since there is so much crap out there on the internet and world wide web.
Yes, indeed, this website is a force for "good".
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by halfwaythere
Re: www.thesession.org
Heh, well knowledge is power, but it can be used for good or evil.
I suppose the same holds true for the opportunities presented by this site.
Agreed though that the vast majority of people here are well intentioned and behave accordingly at least 85% of the time.
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
I will never doubt that Jeremy started a force for good. However. The myriad of people logging on to learn tunes from here is without a doubt a backwards step.
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Most sensible people hear a good tune and will then use the dots simply as a guide to a tune's basic outline and check the comments to see if there's a better version of the way you've heard it played. The tune details info also guides you into finding other recordings of the same tune to listen and learn from.
Nuthin' "backwards" about that, in my opinion.
# Posted on October 10th 2008 by dogbox
Re: www.thesession.org
Hehheeee - Steve - that is the funniest thing Ive read in ages. True too!
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: www.thesession.org
Discussions of inconsequential trite.
--Some are, agreed, and they go over old topics. And these seem to crop up more regularly of late, and it's a pain in the whole trying to filter through the increasing amount of dross. But some are classics of humour, warmth, eclectic intellectual debate: and not only that there are even some good ones about the music.
A myriad of sessions no longer in existence.
--Yeah, so what? Actually it could prove to be very useful historical record. For example a pub quite near me in Peckham, called The London and Brighton, used to host a session with Bobby Casey, Danny Meehan, Raymond Roland, et al. That is real trad music history. Yet the pub nowadays is a dump. But it has history.
Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
Yeah, I know. But think how much more keechhy underpants would be on here if they all contributed.
A sprawling tune section where more than 90% of it is useless and the rest is riddles with inaccuracies. (not to mention that you shouldn't be sharing tunes with strangers via notation alone anyway)
Databases are like that. So what? The problems we must encounter in 2008 divining a setting for a tune on here must be miniscule compared to players in bygone days, who must have had to actively search and search, and listen and listen, and listen and search, just to get a bliddy tune. We get it after a few mouse clicks...poor wee michael...you're not an only child perchance?
I'm mostly a by-ear-learning person. But if I hear a good one and manage to extricate the correct name after the player has done it, I may well check it out here to get it registered in me noddle before attempting to play it. Again, the fact that there may be several tunes claiming the one name and several names claiming the one tune, it's just a case of machete-ing your way through the jungle to get where you want to be.
One thing I don't like is getting nasty personal emails via this site. But then I do like getting, and responding to, emails from well-wishers and like minders.
Was it Churchill who said we owe so much to so few? In this case we owe so much to one guy, Jeremy, but he couldn't have done it wthout stalwarts like Will and some others.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: www.thesession.org
"Fifty thousand so-called members, but only a hundred or so active.
Yeah, I know. But think how much more keechhy underpants would be on here if they all contributed."
Hmm. A bit of an assumption there, old chap. I wouldn't bank on the fact that the hundred who post are the best , most non-keechhy underpantish people who read this hallowed list. In fact, I wouldn't mind betting that at least half of the 49,900 silent majority laugh their socks off at the sheer underpantishnessitude of it all when we're "at our best."
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: www.thesession.org
KML - almost. Churchill's words need to be taken in context, given their gravity:
"The gratitude of every home in our Island, in our Empire, and indeed throughout the world, except in the abodes of the guilty, goes out to the British airmen who, undaunted by odds, unwearied in their constant challenge and mortal danger, are turning the tide of the world war by their prowess and by their devotion. Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."
Given that, this site is a marvellous resource.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by domnull
Re: www.thesession.org
http://www.markborkowski.com/wp-content/valentine-underpants-w-hearts-picking-up-paper-784998.jpg
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
I'm laughing my socks off right now at the combined might of our own sheer keechhyunderpantedness. But yes, I agree Steve. But if all 50,000 contributed, just by sheer weight of numbers the keechhyunderpantedness factor would outweigh the normal goodchap/chapessness factor by about 10:1. Then it really would become just a load of unreadable drivel...even more than that with my contributions...
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: www.thesession.org
Some of the 49,900 lurkers:
http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/resources/2007/07/sh*tloadofpeople.jpg
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
Sorry, that link's been banned by the keechy underpants police. Try this:
http://www.safetymanagementservices.org.uk/images/Big_crowd.jpg
I think that's bb in the black blouse, middle foreground....
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: www.thesession.org
Thanks Domnull for correcting me with the quote. Powerful stuff, Churchill's speeches. The RAF story in the Battle of Britain is truly remarkable, and it is true, we would now be speaking German were it not for those lads. Actually, the speaking German bit wouldn't have been so bad, it's the Nazi bit, saluting the Fuhrer and grassing up the parents or your mates if they were jews or gays or whatever that I didn't really warm to...hmm, but maybe that's just me being difficult...never mind, a wee clip for ye's:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGp0hCxSg98
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: www.thesession.org
I did wonder about the spelling of keechy but I didn't change it in my post in deference to Danny. I'm losing confidence.
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: www.thesession.org
Please don't defer to me - that's an order.
I put in 2 "h"s in keechhy so that people might be prompted to pronounce it Keech as in the Scots loCH not Keetch as in the English, bitch...or twitch...or maybe....Kitsch.....
Boing!! said Zebedee....
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by Nick Splease
Re: www.thesession.org
haha Will
# Posted on October 11th 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: www.thesession.org
I like this web site because I can discuss this music which I like to play with other musicians besides the ones at the local sessions. I like talking about music with the other local musicians but it is also nice to be able to expand your discussion group to include other musicians besides just the local ones whom you play with regularly. Also, after playing music more-or-less irregularly with this group of mixed nuts since 1995, we are running out of new topics to discuss.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: www.thesession.org
Running out of topics? Come on now! There are thousands of other angles on playing from dots or not we have yet to explore!
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: www.thesession.org
It is a lovely social experiment, this website.
An intriguing mixture of laissez faire and state intervention.
Educational.
But if the well-meant spreading of musical knowledge is the aim, then give us the EDIT BUTTON! How much sh*te would have been swatted away from the fan over the years?
It's still good for a laugh mind.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: www.thesession.org
Because the number of musicians at the local sessions is usually no more than ten or fifteen and I have been talking to them and playing music with them for thirteen years, there are very few new topics to discuss with this small but dedicated group of mixed nuts.
However, since this web site has thousands of members, I don't think the members of the session.org will run out of topics to discuss.
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: www.thesession.org
We ran out of topics to discuss here 5 years ago
# Posted on October 13th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: www.thesession.org
Thank you Michael
# Posted on October 14th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: www.thesession.org
I found it hard to believe, as Michael said, "We ran out of topics to discuss here 5 years ago"
So I searched back to the middle of October 2003.
Hmmm . . . you may be onto something llig.
banjos, banjos banjos...
Posted on October 14th 2003 by Greenwiggle
Looking at it differently
Posted on October 15th 2003 by showaddydadito
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/2259
Free Seats
Ryanair are doing a million free seats:
http://www.ryanair.ie/
Posted on October 15th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
my big drum thing...
Posted on October 16th 2003 by Yohan
# Posted on October 19th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: www.thesession.org
I am bound & determined to find the good people within all their rambling, ubiquitous commentary.
Slides and Modes
Posted on October 17th 2001 by Fsnockhart
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/149/comments#comment45660
# Posted on October 20th 2008 by Random_notes