I was just thinking back to a certain discussion regarding people playing "too fast" at a session.
I think that when we're young we have a tendency towards not sparing the horses; even the greatest piper that ever lived (in my opinion) has released a recording with a gentleman fiddle player where some of the music was lightning fast, and fair play to them.
Some of you will understand the point I'm trying to make, and to whom.
However, to my mind a session is about much more than just the music. How many times has it been said that some of the best sessions had very little music, or even none at all?
I'd rather go to a session where the crack was brilliant and the music was crap than a session where everyone played note-for-note to perfection and then struggled for conversation in between sets.
Of course, ideally there's a nice balance between the two.
So why do you lot go to sessions? And, be honest, do you really enjoy them as much as you could, or are you only there to play tunes? Would you get the same enjoyment from playing in a gig?
I do enjoy a good spate of tunes--careening through a headlong set of reels is like blowing out the fuel injectors. Good for the synapses and fingers, and good too for the grins.
But the tunes are also just a catalyst, something to draw like minded people together, and hold them there long enough (over weeks and months and years) that they become a circle of friends (or even better friends if they started off as friends). Playing music is something to DO with your friends, rather than just sitting around drinking. The tunes draw personalities and idiosyncracies to the surface in much the same way that you learn a lot about a person by playing a round of golf or 20 minutes of ice hockey with them. A session (in contrast to a gig) lets you focus on each other, really listen to each other, without wondering what an audience might think. And the good sessions are cooperative (rather than competitive), each person contributing to a greater whole. Too few opportunities for that in today's world.
If it is good fun, no harm no foul...it has its benefits as Will mentions
Its just that too many musicians use it for some sort of exercise in one-upsmanship. No fun there
I am old enough to admit that younger players whose yuppie parents may have paid for 15 years of high priced lessons can play one heck of alot faster and precisely than my old hands/brain can.
Young players are prone to playing just faster than they can and losing the rhythm, but in some ways if everyone loses the rhythm together then that is better than the session which is a series of party pieces, each followed by an embarassed pause.
I like sessions for the craic, the socializing, and the kind of enjoyment Will described much better than I could -- playing tunes with your mates. My ideal session is a collective activity and my favourite ones are where everyone tries to contribute to the collective. The sessions that drive me mad are the ones that feel like a competition. These are ones with really good musicians who need to show off their brilliance. Even more annoying are the ones which feel like the Kentucky Derby where everyone is racing each other to squeeze in *their* tune (regardless of ability). I can't be bothered racing to start a tune. What's the point? It is not a collective pursuit anymore aspiring towards that zen-like state of sessioning where everyone is playing together and listening to each other, but something else entirely, individually-driven and decidedly unpleasant. No one is contributing to the whole but struggling against each other for their moment in the spotlight.
''So why do you lot go to sessions? And, be honest, do you really enjoy them as much as you could, or are you only there to play tunes? Would you get the same enjoyment from playing in a gig?''
I go for both, the tunes, A few pints and the craic
I cant say the speed is an issue, each session I go to has a different group of regulars with different repertoires, skill sets and inclination.
I cant be doing with beginner sessions though, unless I suppose, there was a good reason.
I enjoy playing with beginners and newcomers to the music. It feels good to see someone else catch that spark of passion for the tunes. It's also part of the tradition, at least as I was brought into it--passing on what you know because someone once passed it on to you. Generosity.
Ooh, I don't like the implication of 'marking' people in that ...
I don't care if people "make progress" or not. Who am I to say what their playing is like? And there are very few people that have *nothing* worthwhile to say, musically.
I said I couldn't be doing with beginners sessions, not that I'm not up for a few tunes with anyone. I'll happily play with anyone. but a slow laborious dragging session dominated by beginners... no thanks, unless I have ulterior motives
And all I'm saying is that, for me, beginner sessions can be fun too. A group of newbies can really benefit from having a more experienced player sitting in (not leading or dominating). And I enjoy watching people grow in their passion for the music.
I wasn't passing judgment on you, Ionannas. Just remarking on a different angle.
Not that I don't prefer high-octane sessions as the main course.
Hi Ben,
It's work - just emerging from a long tunnel of doom, gloom and almost-missed deadlines.... Got out to my first sesh in about two months last night and walked out at midnight with a big smile on my face which still hasn't quite evaporated!
I go to encourage people to play new tunes and pick up new ones myself, and have a few pints as well.
I certainly don't go to stand in the middle of the session and shout to people in all four corners, whilst tunes are going on. You know who you are A.R. - stop doing it and get some playing done!
"I am old enough to admit that younger players whose yuppie parents may have paid for 15 years of high priced lessons can play one heck of alot faster and precisely than my old hands/brain can."
zippydw, I am a self-taught musician on some of the instruments I play.... but I will never forget, and always respect and thank the many music teachers I did have. When I did pay for lessons, in retrospect it was never enough to give them fair value for what they gave me. Good instruction in any discipline takes a lot of time, effort and skill on the part of the teacher and few (none?) of the music teachers I have known got rich doing it.
For a lot of adult students of Irish music, trying to go cheap by avoiding lessons doesn't work out too well... sometimes you get what you pay for.
I'm glad my doctor and the engineer who designed the bridges I drive over paid for a "high priced" education and learned their craft well, and I am sure their teachers made more than the average music teacher. For most of us music may not be such a life-or-death matter, but on the other hand some of us do care very much about the quality of the music. If you appreciate the great quality of traditional Irish music, understand that much of this was developed and maintained by generations of professional harpers, fiddlers, pipers, and dancing masters whose students (or their parents) cared enough to learn to invest in "high priced" lessons. Not forgetting the many volunteers also, there has also to be a role for teaching to help support the tenous livelihood of the best professional players.
I hope traditional music is an enjoyable hobby for you but please respect and value the work of the underpaid souls who have invested more of their livelihood in this music.
Well, I don't generally even bother to walk into a pub unless there is music involved, so it must be about the music for me. I love playing, and a session is a wonderful environment to play in.
That being said, I meet a lot of nice people, and very interesting people too, people I would otherwise have nothing in common with. I have played in sessions with submarine commanders, insurance regulators, gardeners, shipwrights, fishermen, former student radicals, school teachers, poets...you name it. It makes you realize what an interesting place the world is.
Now you're talking. That seems long ago.... but the whales, seals, and elephant seals (even the abalone?) may long remember tunes drifting out over the Pacific from the cliffs above, mingled with smoke from dinner on the open fire, fragments of outrageous conversation, and guffaw-driven Guiness foam. Are we back on topic now -- because for me those sessions would be hard to beat for atmosphere. Here's to our host.
Missing the point
Missing the point
I was just thinking back to a certain discussion regarding people playing "too fast" at a session.
I think that when we're young we have a tendency towards not sparing the horses; even the greatest piper that ever lived (in my opinion) has released a recording with a gentleman fiddle player where some of the music was lightning fast, and fair play to them.
Some of you will understand the point I'm trying to make, and to whom.
However, to my mind a session is about much more than just the music. How many times has it been said that some of the best sessions had very little music, or even none at all?
I'd rather go to a session where the crack was brilliant and the music was crap than a session where everyone played note-for-note to perfection and then struggled for conversation in between sets.
Of course, ideally there's a nice balance between the two.
So why do you lot go to sessions? And, be honest, do you really enjoy them as much as you could, or are you only there to play tunes? Would you get the same enjoyment from playing in a gig?
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Missing the point
it's a social club
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Missing the point
It's a hoolie among friends.
I do enjoy a good spate of tunes--careening through a headlong set of reels is like blowing out the fuel injectors. Good for the synapses and fingers, and good too for the grins.
But the tunes are also just a catalyst, something to draw like minded people together, and hold them there long enough (over weeks and months and years) that they become a circle of friends (or even better friends if they started off as friends). Playing music is something to DO with your friends, rather than just sitting around drinking. The tunes draw personalities and idiosyncracies to the surface in much the same way that you learn a lot about a person by playing a round of golf or 20 minutes of ice hockey with them. A session (in contrast to a gig) lets you focus on each other, really listen to each other, without wondering what an audience might think. And the good sessions are cooperative (rather than competitive), each person contributing to a greater whole. Too few opportunities for that in today's world.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Missing the point
If it is good fun, no harm no foul...it has its benefits as Will mentions
Its just that too many musicians use it for some sort of exercise in one-upsmanship. No fun there
I am old enough to admit that younger players whose yuppie parents may have paid for 15 years of high priced lessons can play one heck of alot faster and precisely than my old hands/brain can.
I am long past that show of testosterone......
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Missing the point
The main problem I have with fast sessions is, they hurt my hands and I get cranky and don't enjoy it as much.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Missing the point
Young players are prone to playing just faster than they can and losing the rhythm, but in some ways if everyone loses the rhythm together then that is better than the session which is a series of party pieces, each followed by an embarassed pause.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by LowProfile
Re: Missing the point
I like sessions for the craic, the socializing, and the kind of enjoyment Will described much better than I could -- playing tunes with your mates. My ideal session is a collective activity and my favourite ones are where everyone tries to contribute to the collective. The sessions that drive me mad are the ones that feel like a competition. These are ones with really good musicians who need to show off their brilliance. Even more annoying are the ones which feel like the Kentucky Derby where everyone is racing each other to squeeze in *their* tune (regardless of ability). I can't be bothered racing to start a tune. What's the point? It is not a collective pursuit anymore aspiring towards that zen-like state of sessioning where everyone is playing together and listening to each other, but something else entirely, individually-driven and decidedly unpleasant. No one is contributing to the whole but struggling against each other for their moment in the spotlight.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Missing the point
''So why do you lot go to sessions? And, be honest, do you really enjoy them as much as you could, or are you only there to play tunes? Would you get the same enjoyment from playing in a gig?''
I go for both, the tunes, A few pints and the craic
I cant say the speed is an issue, each session I go to has a different group of regulars with different repertoires, skill sets and inclination.
I cant be doing with beginner sessions though, unless I suppose, there was a good reason.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by the wicked hacker
Re: Missing the point
I enjoy playing with beginners and newcomers to the music. It feels good to see someone else catch that spark of passion for the tunes. It's also part of the tradition, at least as I was brought into it--passing on what you know because someone once passed it on to you. Generosity.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Missing the point
I'm more than happy to play with beginners and newcomers, provided they show progress.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Missing the point
Ooh, I don't like the implication of 'marking' people in that ...
I don't care if people "make progress" or not. Who am I to say what their playing is like? And there are very few people that have *nothing* worthwhile to say, musically.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Missing the point
I started playing tunes because I was no good at conversation.
This is true.
# Posted on October 6th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Missing the point
I said I couldn't be doing with beginners sessions, not that I'm not up for a few tunes with anyone. I'll happily play with anyone. but a slow laborious dragging session dominated by beginners... no thanks, unless I have ulterior motives
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by the wicked hacker
Re: Missing the point
And all I'm saying is that, for me, beginner sessions can be fun too. A group of newbies can really benefit from having a more experienced player sitting in (not leading or dominating). And I enjoy watching people grow in their passion for the music.
I wasn't passing judgment on you, Ionannas. Just remarking on a different angle.
Not that I don't prefer high-octane sessions as the main course.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Missing the point
Good fer you will. and for them eh?
Rather you than me
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by the wicked hacker
Re: Missing the point
So that's why you play so bloody fast, Conán - so you can get back to chatting up my missus?
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Missing the point
Hello Mr Otter. You been away doing up yer holt or sumfink?
Greetings anyway.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Missing the point
Hi Ben,
It's work - just emerging from a long tunnel of doom, gloom and almost-missed deadlines.... Got out to my first sesh in about two months last night and walked out at midnight with a big smile on my face which still hasn't quite evaporated!
Mark
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Ottery
Re: Missing the point
Aye, my work has been something similar. I still get my fix here though!
Maybe I'll make a pilgrimage over your way some time ...
hmmm ...
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Missing the point
I go to encourage people to play new tunes and pick up new ones myself, and have a few pints as well.
I certainly don't go to stand in the middle of the session and shout to people in all four corners, whilst tunes are going on. You know who you are A.R. - stop doing it and get some playing done!
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Missing the point
zippydw wrote:
"I am old enough to admit that younger players whose yuppie parents may have paid for 15 years of high priced lessons can play one heck of alot faster and precisely than my old hands/brain can."
zippydw, I am a self-taught musician on some of the instruments I play.... but I will never forget, and always respect and thank the many music teachers I did have. When I did pay for lessons, in retrospect it was never enough to give them fair value for what they gave me. Good instruction in any discipline takes a lot of time, effort and skill on the part of the teacher and few (none?) of the music teachers I have known got rich doing it.
For a lot of adult students of Irish music, trying to go cheap by avoiding lessons doesn't work out too well... sometimes you get what you pay for.
I'm glad my doctor and the engineer who designed the bridges I drive over paid for a "high priced" education and learned their craft well, and I am sure their teachers made more than the average music teacher. For most of us music may not be such a life-or-death matter, but on the other hand some of us do care very much about the quality of the music. If you appreciate the great quality of traditional Irish music, understand that much of this was developed and maintained by generations of professional harpers, fiddlers, pipers, and dancing masters whose students (or their parents) cared enough to learn to invest in "high priced" lessons. Not forgetting the many volunteers also, there has also to be a role for teaching to help support the tenous livelihood of the best professional players.
I hope traditional music is an enjoyable hobby for you but please respect and value the work of the underpaid souls who have invested more of their livelihood in this music.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Paul Groff
Re: Missing the point
Well, I don't generally even bother to walk into a pub unless there is music involved, so it must be about the music for me. I love playing, and a session is a wonderful environment to play in.
That being said, I meet a lot of nice people, and very interesting people too, people I would otherwise have nothing in common with. I have played in sessions with submarine commanders, insurance regulators, gardeners, shipwrights, fishermen, former student radicals, school teachers, poets...you name it. It makes you realize what an interesting place the world is.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Missing the point
Hey Paul! Just wanted to say hi; and hope your doing well. I miss your concertina playing. All the best.
# Posted on October 7th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Missing the point
Hi AQ,
Trying to place the name..... no, that was FAQ.....
Hope all is well with you too and thanks for the kind words.
PG
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Paul Groff
Re: Missing the point
This might help: think back to, of all places, Pidgeon Point; and all the reprobates who used to play Trad there.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Missing the point
PIGEON Point. My spelling is no better than my piping.
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Missing the point
Now you're talking. That seems long ago.... but the whales, seals, and elephant seals (even the abalone?) may long remember tunes drifting out over the Pacific from the cliffs above, mingled with smoke from dinner on the open fire, fragments of outrageous conversation, and guffaw-driven Guiness foam. Are we back on topic now -- because for me those sessions would be hard to beat for atmosphere. Here's to our host.
PG
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Paul Groff
Re: Missing the point
Yah, I miss that old point too. Here's to our host!
# Posted on October 8th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Missing the point
The main reason I go to the local sessions is to play music but I do enjoy some socializing as well.
# Posted on October 12th 2008 by fauxcelt