It appears to me that the session is anything but dead. People come and go,as in any session. Tunes are played/submitted from many parts of the world, as in many sessions.
By the way, I read half of that thread but that was plenty.
If I hear a tune I like, I can maybe get the name and find it here. For me that's just a brilliant resource. thanks Jeremy.
What's the point in reading that? Like it or lump it, what was relevant in 2003 is hardly relevant now that there are 8000 odd tunes on the site, unless Jeremy fancies a massive tune cull. Surely you just do a search for any tune you want if you don't have a recording of it. Nobody plays through all the tunes looking for ones they like. Or do they? What kind of twit bothers learning tunes they have not heard played or recorded when, if you listen to a reasonable amount of music, there are too many good tunes to learn in a lifetime?
I don't see what difference it makes if folk find this site, think what a great idea and post their own efforts. Woops! Never thought of reading the FAQ, now they are in trouble. Nobody is going to learn them for no reason. BTW there are 100's of trad tunes on here that are also pointless postings.
oops, Well I do sometimes... I must be that kind of twit
I do it out of curiosity, I might try 3 or 4 of an evening...why not? I have found some great tunes that way, with books as well. I do get a bit tired of wading through loads of modern compositions where I would like to be sampling some older, tried and tested tunes.But that's the same with books too. Its there if I want to use it. But I also buy quite a lot of tune books, I like books.
Wow, people spend a lot of time worrying over whether a tune is a "proper" Irish traditional tune or if it's a self composed wonder or Scottish, Cape Breton, Welsh, etc. I think it is far better to have a comprehensive database where anyone can post a tune and use a search function to sort through it all. As bogman has said, does anyone scroll through all the tunes in the database searching for ones they want play? I hope not! If they do that is really sad.
If you're going to start drawing lines between "appropriate" and "inappropriate" tunes, you are going to be in a horrible grey area since the origins of many tunes are not known and there are many tunes "adopted" by the Irish tradition that are from somewhere else (i.e. The Camaronian is probably not Irish with that name). Dow said as much in that monster thread slainte linked to.
For that matter, bogman is a Scottish piper so if we were to take this reductio ad absurdum, he should not even be allowed to post on this site!
One reason for reading through the dots of tunes you've never heard is the element of discovery as you join the dots and start humming something that may turn out to be a really good tune, feeling moreover (alone, hunched over your book or computer) that you are the first person who's ever come across it. There's a high chance that in your own session scene this is so, and that it isn't one of those thrashed to death (sorry, I mean played frequently and respectfully) in the session week after week.
But yes, it has the allure of join-the-dots puzzles one did as a kid - though I seem to remember eating the pages rather than finishing the puzzles.
For me, this is the only relevant post in that thread:
"Phew, chill. Point taken, I stopped posting tunes a while back. I apologize - I misunderstood the purpose of this website from the beginning. I thought it was for sessions and the music played at sessions, and could be used as a valuable international resource for traditional session music to be passed on to other people. I think people who try to separate tunes according to country are making a mistake, given that a lot of the reels and hornpipes you think are Irish are from Scotland with a name change (e.g. Boyne Hunt = Perth Hunt [composd by Magdalina Stirling of Ardoch c1788 if authenticity's what you want], Graf Spee is derived from Grand Spey etc), and some of the jigs and hornpipes are English. The best bands always borrow tunes and dance forms from all over the place. Planxty's Bulgarian tunes in weird timing spring to mind. Why can't people lighten up and enjoy tunes for their own sake?
Dow
# Posted on January 13th 2003"
I realise that Dow himself may now write something different in some respects (perhaps you'll tell us, Dow) but I for one think he got the gist of it just right.
Having said which, I personally don't like the proliferation of vanity tunes ... but that's just me ...
There's far too much theorising, agonising and navel gazing about learning and playing tunes. It's nice to sometimes browse through music books and you can find some real gems but you'll also probably come across 98% "also rans". My advice is to learn and play the ones you like irrespective of source or age of the tune. My own experience with "newly composed' is that you rarely find anything worth bothering with apart from those written by inspired people such as Vincent Broderick, Ed Reavey, Tommy Peoples, Maurice Lennon, Paddy O'Brien (both of them), Seán Ryan, Charlie Lennon ........ I didn't realise there were so many ! Seriously though the whole thing with traditional music, song and dance is about enjoyment and if this aspect is missing then it's time to pack up.
Well, the old thread slainte linked to seems out of context today. Bear in mind, we had just witnessed the submission of the Irish National Anthem and this gem of a post: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1312
Listen to the midi for the full effect.
At the time, the tune database here was being inundated with similar bizarre assemblages of pitch intervals.
You're wasting your time, "slainte". Leave them to it, and just continue posting tunes like the one you did today. And that thread is even more relevant at the moment than it was in 2003.
"Bogman" - please provide some examples of the "100s [ ! ] of trad tunes on here that are pointless postings" , and also explain exactly what makes them "pointless".
I make a point of posting tunes which people here "haven't heard or recorded", and all of them have ended up in usually quite a few tune books, including Will CPT's. You calling him a "twit"?
Despite predictions of doom that crop up from time to time, I am sure everything will be fine. Especially if the US gives its Treasury Secretary $700 billion dollars real quick, don't ask why, no strings attached!!!!!!
Ooops, wrong discussion board.....
I love learning tunes because they're good tunes. What do I care if I never hear them or if it hasn't been recorded.
How do tunes get out there or get revived if people don't look for them. If you place a lot of store of what's recorded note that when you get familiar with collections then it's often easy to spot people who have been trawling through a particular book.
Jim, I wouldn't call anybody who actively looks for tunes a twit. The point I was trying to make was that surely nobody searches through ALL the tunes, say, starting at page one and opening each tune looking for good ones. Surely you search for tunes you've heard or are written or recorded by artists you like. I was trying to make the point that with 8000 odd tunes here what does it matter if there are 'inappropriate' tunes here.
If Jeremy says "ok, only Irish trad please'" then so be it ,but to me traditional music is not just about tunes that have trad written next to them. These tunes were all new at one time too. To me the constant additions and different ways of playing the music is part of what makes it so popular.
Sorry to anyone who took offense to the twit remark. I look at all the new tunes that arrive here and play through all the tunes that are not obviously sh**e. So had I been on this site from it's start then I would have looked at all the tunes and played through the majority. My twit remark would fit myself then but that is not what I meant.
Kenny, the tunes I am referring to are tunes that you wouldn't normally hear at a session. For example all the Scottish and English airs and set dance tunes many of which are as easy to pick up as nursery rhymes and can be found on plenty other sites that cater for that kind of thing. I was also thinking of simple Irish tunes but in retrospect I was wrong there, the Irish ones should be included no matter how simple.
As far as your attitude to posting Scottish reels etc here then I totally disagree with you. Certainly here in Scotland few people care if a tune is Scottish or Irish - a good tune is a good tune. I've never met an Irish player who did not want to play good Scottish tunes because they were not Irish with trad stamped on them. What I find odd is that you've posted quite a few Scottish tunes yourself but are down on others who do. I've posted about half and half but I don't post Scottish tunes to try and infiltrate the Irish tradition, I post tunes that I genuinely believe people would enjoy playing.
Sorry, I should have been clearer that I DO fit your profile of a twit. When I first encountered this site I checked ALL the tunes and typically now I leave it a couple of months and then go back discarding all the dross and the good tunes that don't fit my personal ideas of what works in Irish music. (Note that this doesn't exclude non-Irish, new, etc. -- " a good tune is a good tune".) I know I'm unusual but isn't that good?
I approach all collections of Irish tunes in the same way and, mostly, there's reasonably high proportion of good tunes in published material. There is a serious amount of (attempts diplomacy) non-useful stuff accumulating on this site but a big thanks to all who plug away contributing good tunes.
"I've never met an Irish player who did not want to play good Scottish tunes because they were not Irish with trad stamped on them."
I have met a few, including some who think players in the Scottish tradition should avoid Irish tunes because they will "sound" Scottish and therefore be incorrect, and vice versa. Then there was the time I played Father John MacMillan of Barra at a piping workshop when they asked each student to play a tune so they could assess the general ability of the class. The teacher was not impressed and after some flabbergasted comments to the effect of, "Where did you learn THAT?" asked me to play an Irish tune.
Amazing stuff. I know some folk have that opinion but I've never knowingly met one.
Maybe we should strike up and agreement......
We, the Scots, agree to play no Irish tunes if you, the Irish, agree not to play Scottish tunes. We will not play any jigs providing you don't play any reels. We will not play Uilleann pipes providing you don't play Scottish pipes. We will not play in G providing you don't play in A. And finally neither country shall permit new tunes to be written because none of them will be as good as the trad tunes gifted by the fairies in the olden days.
A bit selective with your statistics, bogman. I’ve posted 283 tunes to this website. Only 8 of them are Scottish, and 1 is Galician [ played and recorded by several Irish traditional musicians ], a ratio of 1 in 35. All of the others - 274 – were transcribed from recordings of traditional Irish players which I’ve collected over the years.
Of the Scottish tunes I’ve posted, 4 were in memory of friends - Scottish musicians - no longer with us. 1 was requested. I no longer post Scottish tunes here if a request is made, but have “pm-d” several people looking for Scottish tunes with the offer to send them the sheet music. I posted 1 pipe reel because someone else had posted an extremely unusual and incomplete version. 1 followed a discussion with the “phantom button” about a Dougie McLean reel. I consider these to be valid reasons. Apart from those listed above, only 1 tune - a Jim Sutherland reel – has no Irish connection.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone posting a non-Irish tune if they’ve posted 35 Irish ones, or even 5 – the same ratio as for self-composed tunes.
I'll ignore your post immediately above. Not worth a response.
I can see bogman's point. I mean, if you have what you consider are valid reasons for posting Scottish tunes, Kenny, then you'd have to assume that other people have their own reasons for posting them that are personal to them. Otherwise they wouldn't bother posting, no?
That's a whole different issue to the 2003 post, though. I read through that old thread and I still stand by what I said, because Glauber's original post is so way, way off the mark. I remember thinking so at the time.
"For the ones of us who were not born in Ireland, hard stuff to learn, few places where we can learn it. But once you're ready, the experience is, like Barry Foy says, the most fun you can have and still keep your clothes on.
That's where www.thesession.org comes in. Here's a "place" where even the shy can come, learn about the tradition, learn about sessions, and learn the repertory."
That's so wrong it makes me wince. Even if you're outside of Ireland, there is no shortage of places to learn this music. There are plenty of CDs and DVDs out there. Plenty of sound clips. Plenty of YouTube vids. Thesession.org is NOT the place to learn the repertory in order to prepare you for playing in sessions. If your primary source of tunes is the sheetmusic downloadable from this website, then you're in real trouble, and pointing the finger at others involved in the music is the very last thing you should be doing. My point is this: you're not in trouble because of tune postings you think are irrelevant to the tradition. You're in trouble because your approach to the music is the wrong one. If this sounds like you, sorry but it's your problem. It's up to you to open your mind and LISTEN to other people and learn from them, not to attack their perspectives and what they are doing before you have taken the time to understand the tradition yourself.
I hope I made it clear that my last paragraph was not referring to you, Kenny. My whole point was that what you're talking about is a completely different issue.
All due respect, Kenny, I guess I don't understand why you or anyone else here is bothered by tunes here of not-Irish origin, when a lot of tunes commonly played in the Irish tradition could very well be Scottish or whatever (i.e. Lord Gordon, Lord MacDonald, Miss McLeod). If it is played by enough Irish musicians, does it become a legitimate part of the tradition? How many is enough? A session tonight of about seven Irish musicians played the High Drive, so does that get to be included in the Irish tradition now? Or how about the Road to Errogie? It seemed to be played by every Irish session I went to in London yet was written by a Scottish fiddler. These are boundaries which get extremely fuzzy and I find that it is problematic to start drawing lines.
Eighteenth and nineteenth century tune books for union pipes, the instrument said to be a "native" Irish instrument (even though it is probably not really but that's a different discussion), have Irish tunes, Scottish tunes and English tunes, new tunes, old ones, and of course baroque ones. If O'Farrell and Geogheghan (sp?) could have tunes of multiple origins in their collections, then so should thesession.org.
I don't think of the tune database here as "the repertory" for Irish sessions. It's just a storehouse and exchange for trad-ish tunes. Yes, ones that fit into "Irish sessions" (whatever they are). But not THE definitive catalog of Irish session tunes. Such an animal can't exist.
I'd suggest that if a tune submission really gets under your skin, email a complaint to Jeremy and see how he handles it. Shouldn't take long to suss out his predilictions....
Oh my god - still going on about old tunes...new tunes ...other tunes from.......OH MY GOD - OTHER COUNTRIES....NNNOOOOOOOO.....NNOOOOOOOOOO - this is shocking and terrible - hideous in fact. Yawn yawn -boring. All I can say is I am glad the people I get to play with arent all like "you cant play that non-irish tune' Yawn.
Actually - I was reading back on that thread and the whole reason that this came about was exactly as Will said - there were people posting weird things like turkey in the straw and the irish national anthem. I see nothing wrong with posting new tunes on this site - This may surprise many people here but *ALL* tunes.....every *SINGLE* one of them were once new - amazing really.
Yes Bren - it was very sweet compared with what I actually wanted to write!
Sydney is ok - sessions are having a bit of a slow down..people have realised that they cant to it all work, family, sessions. Weather has started turning nice. Its all the same really
But you know how you go 'a baby wont change my life, I'll still get to all the sessions' and then you have a baby and realise you hadnt a clue in the first place. Basically about 6 people have done that recently....so we'll have to see. Its all a bit up in the air. Oh well - The sydney scene has always had big up ands big downs
bb - what's so weird about Turkey In The Straw and the Irish National Anthem - I've heard both at sessions more than once ... most recently would be one of them (guess which) the other week in Kelly's
A must read thread posted in 2003
A must read thread posted in 2003
Tunes, tunes, and the slow death of thesession.org: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1258
Do you find it anachronistic?
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by slainte
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
It appears to me that the session is anything but dead. People come and go,as in any session. Tunes are played/submitted from many parts of the world, as in many sessions.
By the way, I read half of that thread but that was plenty.
If I hear a tune I like, I can maybe get the name and find it here. For me that's just a brilliant resource. thanks Jeremy.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Ionannas
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
What's the point in reading that? Like it or lump it, what was relevant in 2003 is hardly relevant now that there are 8000 odd tunes on the site, unless Jeremy fancies a massive tune cull. Surely you just do a search for any tune you want if you don't have a recording of it. Nobody plays through all the tunes looking for ones they like. Or do they? What kind of twit bothers learning tunes they have not heard played or recorded when, if you listen to a reasonable amount of music, there are too many good tunes to learn in a lifetime?
I don't see what difference it makes if folk find this site, think what a great idea and post their own efforts. Woops! Never thought of reading the FAQ, now they are in trouble. Nobody is going to learn them for no reason. BTW there are 100's of trad tunes on here that are also pointless postings.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
oops, Well I do sometimes... I must be that kind of twit
I do it out of curiosity, I might try 3 or 4 of an evening...why not? I have found some great tunes that way, with books as well. I do get a bit tired of wading through loads of modern compositions where I would like to be sampling some older, tried and tested tunes.But that's the same with books too. Its there if I want to use it. But I also buy quite a lot of tune books, I like books.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Ionannas
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Wow, people spend a lot of time worrying over whether a tune is a "proper" Irish traditional tune or if it's a self composed wonder or Scottish, Cape Breton, Welsh, etc. I think it is far better to have a comprehensive database where anyone can post a tune and use a search function to sort through it all. As bogman has said, does anyone scroll through all the tunes in the database searching for ones they want play? I hope not! If they do that is really sad.
If you're going to start drawing lines between "appropriate" and "inappropriate" tunes, you are going to be in a horrible grey area since the origins of many tunes are not known and there are many tunes "adopted" by the Irish tradition that are from somewhere else (i.e. The Camaronian is probably not Irish with that name). Dow said as much in that monster thread slainte linked to.
For that matter, bogman is a Scottish piper so if we were to take this reductio ad absurdum, he should not even be allowed to post on this site!
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
One reason for reading through the dots of tunes you've never heard is the element of discovery as you join the dots and start humming something that may turn out to be a really good tune, feeling moreover (alone, hunched over your book or computer) that you are the first person who's ever come across it. There's a high chance that in your own session scene this is so, and that it isn't one of those thrashed to death (sorry, I mean played frequently and respectfully) in the session week after week.
But yes, it has the allure of join-the-dots puzzles one did as a kid - though I seem to remember eating the pages rather than finishing the puzzles.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by nicholas
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
For me, this is the only relevant post in that thread:
"Phew, chill. Point taken, I stopped posting tunes a while back. I apologize - I misunderstood the purpose of this website from the beginning. I thought it was for sessions and the music played at sessions, and could be used as a valuable international resource for traditional session music to be passed on to other people. I think people who try to separate tunes according to country are making a mistake, given that a lot of the reels and hornpipes you think are Irish are from Scotland with a name change (e.g. Boyne Hunt = Perth Hunt [composd by Magdalina Stirling of Ardoch c1788 if authenticity's what you want], Graf Spee is derived from Grand Spey etc), and some of the jigs and hornpipes are English. The best bands always borrow tunes and dance forms from all over the place. Planxty's Bulgarian tunes in weird timing spring to mind. Why can't people lighten up and enjoy tunes for their own sake?
Dow
# Posted on January 13th 2003"
I realise that Dow himself may now write something different in some respects (perhaps you'll tell us, Dow) but I for one think he got the gist of it just right.
Having said which, I personally don't like the proliferation of vanity tunes ... but that's just me ...
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Here is a related discussion around the same time period.
Tune categories
# Posted on January 10th 2003 by milesnagopaleen
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/1248
There is a question about mazurkas.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Couldn't agree more Benhall.1
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
There's far too much theorising, agonising and navel gazing about learning and playing tunes. It's nice to sometimes browse through music books and you can find some real gems but you'll also probably come across 98% "also rans". My advice is to learn and play the ones you like irrespective of source or age of the tune. My own experience with "newly composed' is that you rarely find anything worth bothering with apart from those written by inspired people such as Vincent Broderick, Ed Reavey, Tommy Peoples, Maurice Lennon, Paddy O'Brien (both of them), Seán Ryan, Charlie Lennon ........ I didn't realise there were so many ! Seriously though the whole thing with traditional music, song and dance is about enjoyment and if this aspect is missing then it's time to pack up.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Well, the old thread slainte linked to seems out of context today. Bear in mind, we had just witnessed the submission of the Irish National Anthem and this gem of a post: http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1312
Listen to the midi for the full effect.
At the time, the tune database here was being inundated with similar bizarre assemblages of pitch intervals.
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
You're wasting your time, "slainte". Leave them to it, and just continue posting tunes like the one you did today. And that thread is even more relevant at the moment than it was in 2003.
"Bogman" - please provide some examples of the "100s [ ! ] of trad tunes on here that are pointless postings" , and also explain exactly what makes them "pointless".
I make a point of posting tunes which people here "haven't heard or recorded", and all of them have ended up in usually quite a few tune books, including Will CPT's. You calling him a "twit"?
# Posted on September 25th 2008 by Kenny
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
A classical guitarist, I think it was Rodrigo or somebody, was in a studio with Django.
He pays this amazing classical piece to great acclaim.
Django then does a bit. Rodrigo is amazed and tells Django that he must give him a copy of the sheet music for this excellent piece.
Django tells him he has just made it up, there and then.
Moral. Play whatever you want and do not get hung up on theory, or acceptance.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Despite predictions of doom that crop up from time to time, I am sure everything will be fine. Especially if the US gives its Treasury Secretary $700 billion dollars real quick, don't ask why, no strings attached!!!!!!
Ooops, wrong discussion board.....
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
right, al brown, especially if sarah palin gets in - after all, she is free from witchcraft
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=k0utkTp7DTw
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Cosmic Ray
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Haha, Al.
The problem could also be solved Gordon Brown-style and Chiffandfipple.com could take over thesession.org. :P
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
What is the difference between Bush and Chavez? Bush has nationalised more banks.
I think we should all note the fall of capitalism.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Twit? TWIT?
I love learning tunes because they're good tunes. What do I care if I never hear them or if it hasn't been recorded.
How do tunes get out there or get revived if people don't look for them. If you place a lot of store of what's recorded note that when you get familiar with collections then it's often easy to spot people who have been trawling through a particular book.
Jim
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by skerries
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Jim, I wouldn't call anybody who actively looks for tunes a twit. The point I was trying to make was that surely nobody searches through ALL the tunes, say, starting at page one and opening each tune looking for good ones. Surely you search for tunes you've heard or are written or recorded by artists you like. I was trying to make the point that with 8000 odd tunes here what does it matter if there are 'inappropriate' tunes here.
If Jeremy says "ok, only Irish trad please'" then so be it ,but to me traditional music is not just about tunes that have trad written next to them. These tunes were all new at one time too. To me the constant additions and different ways of playing the music is part of what makes it so popular.
Sorry to anyone who took offense to the twit remark. I look at all the new tunes that arrive here and play through all the tunes that are not obviously sh**e. So had I been on this site from it's start then I would have looked at all the tunes and played through the majority. My twit remark would fit myself then but that is not what I meant.
Kenny, the tunes I am referring to are tunes that you wouldn't normally hear at a session. For example all the Scottish and English airs and set dance tunes many of which are as easy to pick up as nursery rhymes and can be found on plenty other sites that cater for that kind of thing. I was also thinking of simple Irish tunes but in retrospect I was wrong there, the Irish ones should be included no matter how simple.
As far as your attitude to posting Scottish reels etc here then I totally disagree with you. Certainly here in Scotland few people care if a tune is Scottish or Irish - a good tune is a good tune. I've never met an Irish player who did not want to play good Scottish tunes because they were not Irish with trad stamped on them. What I find odd is that you've posted quite a few Scottish tunes yourself but are down on others who do. I've posted about half and half but I don't post Scottish tunes to try and infiltrate the Irish tradition, I post tunes that I genuinely believe people would enjoy playing.
# Posted on September 28th 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Hi, Bog,
Thanks for the grovel!
Sorry, I should have been clearer that I DO fit your profile of a twit. When I first encountered this site I checked ALL the tunes and typically now I leave it a couple of months and then go back discarding all the dross and the good tunes that don't fit my personal ideas of what works in Irish music. (Note that this doesn't exclude non-Irish, new, etc. -- " a good tune is a good tune".) I know I'm unusual but isn't that good?
I approach all collections of Irish tunes in the same way and, mostly, there's reasonably high proportion of good tunes in published material. There is a serious amount of (attempts diplomacy) non-useful stuff accumulating on this site but a big thanks to all who plug away contributing good tunes.
Jim
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by skerries
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Good post, bogman.
"I've never met an Irish player who did not want to play good Scottish tunes because they were not Irish with trad stamped on them."
I have met a few, including some who think players in the Scottish tradition should avoid Irish tunes because they will "sound" Scottish and therefore be incorrect, and vice versa. Then there was the time I played Father John MacMillan of Barra at a piping workshop when they asked each student to play a tune so they could assess the general ability of the class. The teacher was not impressed and after some flabbergasted comments to the effect of, "Where did you learn THAT?" asked me to play an Irish tune.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Amazing stuff. I know some folk have that opinion but I've never knowingly met one.
Maybe we should strike up and agreement......
We, the Scots, agree to play no Irish tunes if you, the Irish, agree not to play Scottish tunes. We will not play any jigs providing you don't play any reels. We will not play Uilleann pipes providing you don't play Scottish pipes. We will not play in G providing you don't play in A. And finally neither country shall permit new tunes to be written because none of them will be as good as the trad tunes gifted by the fairies in the olden days.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
A bit selective with your statistics, bogman. I’ve posted 283 tunes to this website. Only 8 of them are Scottish, and 1 is Galician [ played and recorded by several Irish traditional musicians ], a ratio of 1 in 35. All of the others - 274 – were transcribed from recordings of traditional Irish players which I’ve collected over the years.
Of the Scottish tunes I’ve posted, 4 were in memory of friends - Scottish musicians - no longer with us. 1 was requested. I no longer post Scottish tunes here if a request is made, but have “pm-d” several people looking for Scottish tunes with the offer to send them the sheet music. I posted 1 pipe reel because someone else had posted an extremely unusual and incomplete version. 1 followed a discussion with the “phantom button” about a Dougie McLean reel. I consider these to be valid reasons. Apart from those listed above, only 1 tune - a Jim Sutherland reel – has no Irish connection.
I have no problem whatsoever with anyone posting a non-Irish tune if they’ve posted 35 Irish ones, or even 5 – the same ratio as for self-composed tunes.
I'll ignore your post immediately above. Not worth a response.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by Kenny
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I can see bogman's point. I mean, if you have what you consider are valid reasons for posting Scottish tunes, Kenny, then you'd have to assume that other people have their own reasons for posting them that are personal to them. Otherwise they wouldn't bother posting, no?
That's a whole different issue to the 2003 post, though. I read through that old thread and I still stand by what I said, because Glauber's original post is so way, way off the mark. I remember thinking so at the time.
"For the ones of us who were not born in Ireland, hard stuff to learn, few places where we can learn it. But once you're ready, the experience is, like Barry Foy says, the most fun you can have and still keep your clothes on.
That's where www.thesession.org comes in. Here's a "place" where even the shy can come, learn about the tradition, learn about sessions, and learn the repertory."
That's so wrong it makes me wince. Even if you're outside of Ireland, there is no shortage of places to learn this music. There are plenty of CDs and DVDs out there. Plenty of sound clips. Plenty of YouTube vids. Thesession.org is NOT the place to learn the repertory in order to prepare you for playing in sessions. If your primary source of tunes is the sheetmusic downloadable from this website, then you're in real trouble, and pointing the finger at others involved in the music is the very last thing you should be doing. My point is this: you're not in trouble because of tune postings you think are irrelevant to the tradition. You're in trouble because your approach to the music is the wrong one. If this sounds like you, sorry but it's your problem. It's up to you to open your mind and LISTEN to other people and learn from them, not to attack their perspectives and what they are doing before you have taken the time to understand the tradition yourself.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by Dow
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I give up.
# Posted on September 29th 2008 by Kenny
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I hope I made it clear that my last paragraph was not referring to you, Kenny. My whole point was that what you're talking about is a completely different issue.
# Posted on September 30th 2008 by Dow
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
All due respect, Kenny, I guess I don't understand why you or anyone else here is bothered by tunes here of not-Irish origin, when a lot of tunes commonly played in the Irish tradition could very well be Scottish or whatever (i.e. Lord Gordon, Lord MacDonald, Miss McLeod). If it is played by enough Irish musicians, does it become a legitimate part of the tradition? How many is enough? A session tonight of about seven Irish musicians played the High Drive, so does that get to be included in the Irish tradition now? Or how about the Road to Errogie? It seemed to be played by every Irish session I went to in London yet was written by a Scottish fiddler. These are boundaries which get extremely fuzzy and I find that it is problematic to start drawing lines.
Eighteenth and nineteenth century tune books for union pipes, the instrument said to be a "native" Irish instrument (even though it is probably not really but that's a different discussion), have Irish tunes, Scottish tunes and English tunes, new tunes, old ones, and of course baroque ones. If O'Farrell and Geogheghan (sp?) could have tunes of multiple origins in their collections, then so should thesession.org.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by TheSilverSpear
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
It shouldn't matter how much irrelevant stuff is on a searchable database.
Should it?
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Not if you know the name or abc profile of the tune you're looking for.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I don't think of the tune database here as "the repertory" for Irish sessions. It's just a storehouse and exchange for trad-ish tunes. Yes, ones that fit into "Irish sessions" (whatever they are). But not THE definitive catalog of Irish session tunes. Such an animal can't exist.
I'd suggest that if a tune submission really gets under your skin, email a complaint to Jeremy and see how he handles it. Shouldn't take long to suss out his predilictions....
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I've only posted one tune, a Shetland tune that a member here asked me for. So shoot me.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Oh my god - still going on about old tunes...new tunes ...other tunes from.......OH MY GOD - OTHER COUNTRIES....NNNOOOOOOOO.....NNOOOOOOOOOO - this is shocking and terrible - hideous in fact. Yawn yawn -boring. All I can say is I am glad the people I get to play with arent all like "you cant play that non-irish tune' Yawn.
Actually - I was reading back on that thread and the whole reason that this came about was exactly as Will said - there were people posting weird things like turkey in the straw and the irish national anthem. I see nothing wrong with posting new tunes on this site - This may surprise many people here but *ALL* tunes.....every *SINGLE* one of them were once new - amazing really.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by bb
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
You're so sweet bb. How is Sydney?
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Yes Bren - it was very sweet compared with what I actually wanted to write!
Sydney is ok - sessions are having a bit of a slow down..people have realised that they cant to it all work, family, sessions. Weather has started turning nice. Its all the same really
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by bb
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
"people" have realised ...?
Welcome to the "people" club!
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
But you know how you go 'a baby wont change my life, I'll still get to all the sessions' and then you have a baby and realise you hadnt a clue in the first place. Basically about 6 people have done that recently....so we'll have to see. Its all a bit up in the air. Oh well - The sydney scene has always had big up ands big downs
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by bb
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
hence all the babies
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
But I pretty much gave it all up until the kids were about ten, then I slowly started to venture out at night again, and learned (tried) to play again
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
I've only ever posted one tune. Jeremy deleted it. I don't know why, it was a traditional tune that is heard/played in most sessions every night.
(Though there is a tune I wrote in the database - not posted by me. Though it's a crap tune, so I'm not saying what it is.)
ha, and anyone who says a baby won't change their life is a sad misguided fool.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
You're a hard man Michael - they're just innocent.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bren
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
... change your life for the better of course. (though I wouldn't mind a lie in once in a while)
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Yes - change for the better of course - but what I wouldnt do for a lie in!
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by bb
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
you'll get one in ten years or so
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
James Morrison playing Scottish music......
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/james-morrison
Leo Rowsome.........
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/leo-rowsome
Patrick Fitzpatrick.......
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/patrick-fitzpatrick
Tom Ennis......
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/tom-ennis
Michael Coleman.........
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/michael-coleman
naughty boys
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Crickey , nearly forgot Paddy Killoran.....
http://www.raretunes.org/performers/paddy-killoran
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
So...? And I'm still waiting for you to provide even one single example of the "hundreds" of trad tunes posted here which are "pointless".
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Kenny
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
bb - what's so weird about Turkey In The Straw and the Irish National Anthem - I've heard both at sessions more than once ... most recently would be one of them (guess which) the other week in Kelly's
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Just a person
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Kenny, I said the postings were pointless, not the tunes themselves.
# Posted on October 1st 2008 by Bogman
Re: A must read thread posted in 2003
Orson - it was as a Joke - obviously !!
# Posted on October 2nd 2008 by bb