I fancy joining a ceili band. I think it would be good to play somewhere other than a session and play at tempo for meant for dancers . I think it might give me a better understanding of the tunes plus its a great way to learn new tunes.
What do you think? How do people join a ceili band anyway?
Any suggestions? (constructive ones only please, for those who like to hijack discussions)
I Live just outside Manchester, England.
Sorry, I don't think Ceili Minogue is looking for any instrumentalists for her band at this time....
Seriously, this is an interesting question. Here in the back of beyond, there are no established ceili bands. If I wanted to join one, I'd have to create it first. So how *does* it work, where ceili bands thrive, and yet there are only so many seats on the stage?
Down here we have The Royal Palm Ceili Band, which is run by a teacher/musician who also anchors a session. Basically, between her session and the ones I anchor, we have a pool of folks who are all part-time members of the band. Whenever there’s a dance, she sends the word out to our collected groups of sessionistas to see who wants to play with the band for the dance. The band consists of the dance teacher plus whatever folks we can cobble together.
She has her usual dance classes, plus the dances are held in conjunction with the local Irish American cultural clubs. The clubs help coordinate nominal payments at the door to support the band, rent the hall, etc.
The material is simply the stuff we play the most at sessions, only as fast as humanly possible. You’d think with a bunch of retired Irish American Florida seniors, they’d take it a little slow once in a while, but no…Warp Factor 10 Mr. Sulu.
So, there you go! Have fun! It’s worth it, no doubt, even if you just do it the once.
…and Will, I know you got a gang up there, you could hook it up! I’m sure there’s a set dance teacher kicking around somewhere to call it for ya!
a lot depends on what dances your caller and your audience want. don't count on being expected to play clever stuff - a lot of tunes popular for dancing to aren't top of the pile for musical quality or traditional value.
playing in the band will help your music in the sense that you'll be infront of a paying audience and will be expected to be able to play on through amp failures, colleague lapses, string breakages, fights and heart attacks. you'll also develop muscles from carrying speakers and you'll be able to talk loudly about pre-amps and XLRs and sound checks. it'll be great.
Ian, our core session players do play for ceilis whenever the local step and set dancing schools host one. And we've done a few for the biannual language immersion class put on by the Montana Gaelic Cultural Society.
Great fun, and very similar to how you describe yours in FL. But that's not the same as the formal ceili and set dance bands I've seen in my travels and heard on Ceili House radio.
So I'm curious to hear a response to Taurus' query from a serious ceili bandanista.
Good man Will, and you're correct, where are the folks who do this all the time? To be honest, our dancers and the teacher drag us along pretty much, they're very skilled at what they do, and they love it.
Don't forget ceilidh bands as well as ceili bands.
Most ceilidh bands around Aberdeen (and there are quite a few as it seems to be the done thing for folk getting married these days) are formed out of musicians who meet at sessions.
It's great fun but don't forget the downside of late nights staying sober while playing to drunks, unsociable hours at weekends, humphing gear, long drives home etc.
All made up for by the sight of everyone up happy and dancing a Strip the Willow and going home with smiles on their faces.
As well as hanging around sessions, having your own equipment and transport is a big plus
The regular drummer couldn't make it so I was asked to step in, which I did and really enjoyed it. It is a different experience from a session - I spent a lot of time watching the dancers' feet and picking up on the particular accents in the stepping. It was great watching the dancers from the stage - there's something magical about people smiling at each other and having fun. And what fleet-footed dancers they were. The hardest bit was having to stay on stage when I wanted to get down there and join in at times! I bounced around in my chair a lot to compensate. I'm hoping to get asked to stand in again,,,and again!
I've done my share and it's great fun and a great way to get a good sense of rhythm (for me!). The other thing is giving you a chance to try out subtle variations each time the tune comes round - which is musically quite satisfying. I'm sure anyone who has a band would be happy to have someone join. One caveat is that all the bands I know (both of them) have slightly limited mixer equipment and may not be able to cope with an extra instrument for technical reasons. Mind you, I don't know if all ceili bands are amplified - I just assumed they were.
It seems an awful shame that ceili bands nowadays only get together to try and win something at the Fleadh Ceol. Then you never hear from them again until the following year. Unfortunaltly there isn't any money in ceili bands, but great satisfaction and enjoyment can be had in group playing. In the halcyon days of Ceili and Old Time Dances, one of the joys of playing on stage was watching the antics of some of the weird and wonderful characters that 'cut a dash' around the dance floor. The only amplification I ever came across in a ceili band was 'maybe a bass guitar' an electric keyboard and one or two mics.
A couple of observations from the rhythm section: the tunes were played very fast - 140 for the reels, strict tempo and no slacking off. We played far more polkas, slides and hornpipes than you'd encounter in an average session. All instruments were ampllified - a good sound system is a pretty critical requirement.
It is a helll of a commitment to be out playing EVERY weekend and having to plan your holidays etc. around gigs - we take bookings something like 18 months on advance so have to plan slots for holidays that far ahead (I have two dates in the diary for 2011)
Setting up and dismantling has to work like clockwork so everything is in place ready, and nothing gets left at the end, and you are always organised and ready for the unexpected, so it really is a team effort. The seasoned band is expected to have seen it all before.
Really busy bands don't really have time to practise so you really need to be an all-round musician i.e. able to read dots, play a wide range of genres from memory, transpose, blend and fit in with the others, pick up key changes/time signature changes immediately without being told, you need some harmony knowledge so you can accompany wayward singers and you need the patience of a saint hanging around for hours on end whilst the speeches finish.
We are that busy that we need quite a string of deputies (and youngsters as trainee deputies) to be able to fill in with holidays etc. so there are spare seats up for grabs on occasional nights, but as these things need planning, the deputies have to be really organised and obviously need all the above skills to be able to fit in at a moments notice. One reason for getting around lots of sessions is trawling for potential deputies.
And on top of all that, is the homework - the paperwork for income tax / expenses etc as well as practise time at home and arrangement of sets etc.
I would more than merely recommend it. I'd say it's absolutely vital to your training in diddley music. I'm oft talking about the kind of diddley music I like to play as once being dance music, but having moved somewhere else from there (not necessarily better mind, just different). But the skill of playing for dancers is an absolute prerequisite. It teaches you so much about the music, about why it is.
Start by playing quietly at the back of the band, just to get the feel for it. The relentless essence of it. Feel that the lift is not just a hup of the shoulders, but has enough controlled power in it to lift your whole body off the ground. Feel that the drive is there to get that sprung dance floor oscillating.
Sitting at home playing along with your Lunasa records simply isn't enough. You can learn a lot, but not enough. That's very very important.
Just remember if you do join a band - Dancers are Stupid.
So you have to know the dances (ie if they're 32, 64 or however many bars and where the end is) and then be able to slot in extra A/B parts if need be so they can finish the dance. It's all great fun though watching them either make a complete mess of it but having a great time all the same, or actually doing well and having a good time.
First step - Learn some common dances if you don't know any already. You can play for dancing much better if you know where the dancers' feet are going.
I did try to post yesterday but there was some technical hitch, so I'll say it now - go out to a few dances and dance - that's how you learn the dances. It's also a great way to get your arm around a young woman ( I'm making an assumption here about gender, I guess ). I was shy when I was youngest, and regretted my wasted years when I finally plucked up the courage to get on the floor.
You will also, at the dances, hear the popular dance, as opposed to session, tunes, although of course every band has their own particular repertoire.
Lots of totally relevant and germane posts for this thread. My $0.02 worth. Try and keep an open mind about how deeply you want to go into band work; for some it is a hobby, others a way of making beer money and again for others it is their livlihood. Beware of losing the enjoyment of music making, it can become a chore and a grind. On the other hand there is nothing quite like having the audiance bopping away and thoroughly enjoying themselves because of your efforts - that buzz can be quite addictive!
Other than that I would recomend that if your instrument is to be amplified it is worth getting the best elctronics/pickup you can afford. You want to sound good don't you?
"We are that busy that we need quite a string of deputies (and youngsters as trainee deputies) to be able to fill in with holidays etc. so there are spare seats up for grabs on occasional nights, but as these things need planning, the deputies have to be really organised and obviously need all the above skills to be able to fit in at a moments notice. One reason for getting around lots of sessions is trawling for potential deputies"
I deputise just like you said Geoff and it's perfect for me, all the pleasure without the commitment. Like having a mistress.
Hi Taurus - there are many regional and national differences involved with ceilidh band playing. As I see that you live in Manchester, Engand I'll try and give you an English perspective on it. The band would normally be going out with a caller. You would probably be playing a lot more English tunes and a lot less Irish ones than you would normally get at a session. A lot more polkas and horpipes (as someone has already said) and marches and waltzes as well. On top of that, many dances have special "set" tunes, which you would need to learn. Ceilidhs and barn dances are quite noisy affairs, so a sound system is essential. Playing through p.a. is a lot different to playing acoustically, though most people adapt to this very easily.
The biggest difference of all is the level of comittment needed. With session playing you can please yourself whether or not to turn up on a particular evening. With a ceilidh band booking, you've just got to get there - and get there at a specific time. Feeling very tired? Bad day at work? A cold or the flu? Dog just died? You still have to go! At a session, if you you don't know (or don't like) a tune set you can sit out, or join in part way through. At a ceilidh, you have to play every tune in every set from the beginning, and keep on playing to the end.
If you are a good session musician, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to adapt to playing in a ceilidh band - providing that you can accept the level of commitment needed. How to go about it? One way would be to find some capable and like-minded people, and start your own band. Another way would be to work as a stand-in musician with an existing band. Many ceildh band leaders keep a list of musicians that they can call upon to fill in for holidays, illnesses or other emergencies. Try placing an ad in the local paper, music shop, folk club, regional website etc. Or you could try contacting the leaders of your local bands. Whether you'll be in demand or not will depend on various factors e.g. (a) what instrument you play (b) whether you know (or can quickly learn) the band's repertoire (c) whether you can read the dots (some bands play from music). If you can become accepted as a good reliable stand-in with a band, when a permanent vacancy does occur, you'll probably be given first refusal!
Good luck if you decide to try it - but do keep in mind the level of committment needed. With session playing, you fit the session playing into your life. With ceilidh band playing, you fit your life into the ceilidh band playing!
I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
I fancy joining a ceili band. I think it would be good to play somewhere other than a session and play at tempo for meant for dancers . I think it might give me a better understanding of the tunes plus its a great way to learn new tunes.
What do you think? How do people join a ceili band anyway?
Any suggestions? (constructive ones only please, for those who like to hijack discussions)
I Live just outside Manchester, England.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Taurus
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Sorry, I don't think Ceili Minogue is looking for any instrumentalists for her band at this time....
Seriously, this is an interesting question. Here in the back of beyond, there are no established ceili bands. If I wanted to join one, I'd have to create it first. So how *does* it work, where ceili bands thrive, and yet there are only so many seats on the stage?
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Will CPT
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Good for you Taurus!
Down here we have The Royal Palm Ceili Band, which is run by a teacher/musician who also anchors a session. Basically, between her session and the ones I anchor, we have a pool of folks who are all part-time members of the band. Whenever there’s a dance, she sends the word out to our collected groups of sessionistas to see who wants to play with the band for the dance. The band consists of the dance teacher plus whatever folks we can cobble together.
She has her usual dance classes, plus the dances are held in conjunction with the local Irish American cultural clubs. The clubs help coordinate nominal payments at the door to support the band, rent the hall, etc.
The material is simply the stuff we play the most at sessions, only as fast as humanly possible. You’d think with a bunch of retired Irish American Florida seniors, they’d take it a little slow once in a while, but no…Warp Factor 10 Mr. Sulu.
So, there you go! Have fun! It’s worth it, no doubt, even if you just do it the once.
…and Will, I know you got a gang up there, you could hook it up! I’m sure there’s a set dance teacher kicking around somewhere to call it for ya!
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
a lot depends on what dances your caller and your audience want. don't count on being expected to play clever stuff - a lot of tunes popular for dancing to aren't top of the pile for musical quality or traditional value.
playing in the band will help your music in the sense that you'll be infront of a paying audience and will be expected to be able to play on through amp failures, colleague lapses, string breakages, fights and heart attacks. you'll also develop muscles from carrying speakers and you'll be able to talk loudly about pre-amps and XLRs and sound checks. it'll be great.
honestly.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Ian, our core session players do play for ceilis whenever the local step and set dancing schools host one. And we've done a few for the biannual language immersion class put on by the Montana Gaelic Cultural Society.
Great fun, and very similar to how you describe yours in FL. But that's not the same as the formal ceili and set dance bands I've seen in my travels and heard on Ceili House radio.
So I'm curious to hear a response to Taurus' query from a serious ceili bandanista.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Will CPT
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Good man Will, and you're correct, where are the folks who do this all the time? To be honest, our dancers and the teacher drag us along pretty much, they're very skilled at what they do, and they love it.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Don't forget ceilidh bands as well as ceili bands.
Most ceilidh bands around Aberdeen (and there are quite a few as it seems to be the done thing for folk getting married these days) are formed out of musicians who meet at sessions.
It's great fun but don't forget the downside of late nights staying sober while playing to drunks, unsociable hours at weekends, humphing gear, long drives home etc.
All made up for by the sight of everyone up happy and dancing a Strip the Willow and going home with smiles on their faces.
As well as hanging around sessions, having your own equipment and transport is a big plus
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Bren
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
The regular drummer couldn't make it so I was asked to step in, which I did and really enjoyed it. It is a different experience from a session - I spent a lot of time watching the dancers' feet and picking up on the particular accents in the stepping. It was great watching the dancers from the stage - there's something magical about people smiling at each other and having fun. And what fleet-footed dancers they were. The hardest bit was having to stay on stage when I wanted to get down there and join in at times! I bounced around in my chair a lot to compensate. I'm hoping to get asked to stand in again,,,and again!
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by clogstepping
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
I've done my share and it's great fun and a great way to get a good sense of rhythm (for me!). The other thing is giving you a chance to try out subtle variations each time the tune comes round - which is musically quite satisfying. I'm sure anyone who has a band would be happy to have someone join. One caveat is that all the bands I know (both of them) have slightly limited mixer equipment and may not be able to cope with an extra instrument for technical reasons. Mind you, I don't know if all ceili bands are amplified - I just assumed they were.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
It seems an awful shame that ceili bands nowadays only get together to try and win something at the Fleadh Ceol. Then you never hear from them again until the following year. Unfortunaltly there isn't any money in ceili bands, but great satisfaction and enjoyment can be had in group playing. In the halcyon days of Ceili and Old Time Dances, one of the joys of playing on stage was watching the antics of some of the weird and wonderful characters that 'cut a dash' around the dance floor. The only amplification I ever came across in a ceili band was 'maybe a bass guitar' an electric keyboard and one or two mics.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Free Reed
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
A couple of observations from the rhythm section: the tunes were played very fast - 140 for the reels, strict tempo and no slacking off. We played far more polkas, slides and hornpipes than you'd encounter in an average session. All instruments were ampllified - a good sound system is a pretty critical requirement.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by clogstepping
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Corrigendum - 140 for some of the reels. I don't think all the tunes were played quite that fast...
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by clogstepping
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
It is a helll of a commitment to be out playing EVERY weekend and having to plan your holidays etc. around gigs - we take bookings something like 18 months on advance so have to plan slots for holidays that far ahead (I have two dates in the diary for 2011)
Setting up and dismantling has to work like clockwork so everything is in place ready, and nothing gets left at the end, and you are always organised and ready for the unexpected, so it really is a team effort. The seasoned band is expected to have seen it all before.
Really busy bands don't really have time to practise so you really need to be an all-round musician i.e. able to read dots, play a wide range of genres from memory, transpose, blend and fit in with the others, pick up key changes/time signature changes immediately without being told, you need some harmony knowledge so you can accompany wayward singers and you need the patience of a saint hanging around for hours on end whilst the speeches finish.
We are that busy that we need quite a string of deputies (and youngsters as trainee deputies) to be able to fill in with holidays etc. so there are spare seats up for grabs on occasional nights, but as these things need planning, the deputies have to be really organised and obviously need all the above skills to be able to fit in at a moments notice. One reason for getting around lots of sessions is trawling for potential deputies.
And on top of all that, is the homework - the paperwork for income tax / expenses etc as well as practise time at home and arrangement of sets etc.
It is a HUGE commitment, and not a hobby
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by geoffwright
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
I would more than merely recommend it. I'd say it's absolutely vital to your training in diddley music. I'm oft talking about the kind of diddley music I like to play as once being dance music, but having moved somewhere else from there (not necessarily better mind, just different). But the skill of playing for dancers is an absolute prerequisite. It teaches you so much about the music, about why it is.
Start by playing quietly at the back of the band, just to get the feel for it. The relentless essence of it. Feel that the lift is not just a hup of the shoulders, but has enough controlled power in it to lift your whole body off the ground. Feel that the drive is there to get that sprung dance floor oscillating.
Sitting at home playing along with your Lunasa records simply isn't enough. You can learn a lot, but not enough. That's very very important.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Just remember if you do join a band - Dancers are Stupid.
So you have to know the dances (ie if they're 32, 64 or however many bars and where the end is) and then be able to slot in extra A/B parts if need be so they can finish the dance. It's all great fun though watching them either make a complete mess of it but having a great time all the same, or actually doing well and having a good time.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by snowyowl
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
First step - Learn some common dances if you don't know any already. You can play for dancing much better if you know where the dancers' feet are going.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by snowyowl
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Thanks Snowy, Where would I start learning "common dances"?
How do I find out what they are? I just know tunes I have learned from sessions.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Taurus
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
I did try to post yesterday but there was some technical hitch, so I'll say it now - go out to a few dances and dance - that's how you learn the dances. It's also a great way to get your arm around a young woman ( I'm making an assumption here about gender, I guess ). I was shy when I was youngest, and regretted my wasted years when I finally plucked up the courage to get on the floor.
You will also, at the dances, hear the popular dance, as opposed to session, tunes, although of course every band has their own particular repertoire.
# Posted on September 23rd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Lots of totally relevant and germane posts for this thread. My $0.02 worth. Try and keep an open mind about how deeply you want to go into band work; for some it is a hobby, others a way of making beer money and again for others it is their livlihood. Beware of losing the enjoyment of music making, it can become a chore and a grind. On the other hand there is nothing quite like having the audiance bopping away and thoroughly enjoying themselves because of your efforts - that buzz can be quite addictive!
Other than that I would recomend that if your instrument is to be amplified it is worth getting the best elctronics/pickup you can afford. You want to sound good don't you?
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by john knoss
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
that's electronics...
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by john knoss
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
buzzsprackelpop...hummmmmmmmmmm
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by john knoss
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
"We are that busy that we need quite a string of deputies (and youngsters as trainee deputies) to be able to fill in with holidays etc. so there are spare seats up for grabs on occasional nights, but as these things need planning, the deputies have to be really organised and obviously need all the above skills to be able to fit in at a moments notice. One reason for getting around lots of sessions is trawling for potential deputies"
I deputise just like you said Geoff and it's perfect for me, all the pleasure without the commitment. Like having a mistress.
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by Bren
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
or perhaps more like being a "fancy man"
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by Bren
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Hi Taurus - there are many regional and national differences involved with ceilidh band playing. As I see that you live in Manchester, Engand I'll try and give you an English perspective on it. The band would normally be going out with a caller. You would probably be playing a lot more English tunes and a lot less Irish ones than you would normally get at a session. A lot more polkas and horpipes (as someone has already said) and marches and waltzes as well. On top of that, many dances have special "set" tunes, which you would need to learn. Ceilidhs and barn dances are quite noisy affairs, so a sound system is essential. Playing through p.a. is a lot different to playing acoustically, though most people adapt to this very easily.
The biggest difference of all is the level of comittment needed. With session playing you can please yourself whether or not to turn up on a particular evening. With a ceilidh band booking, you've just got to get there - and get there at a specific time. Feeling very tired? Bad day at work? A cold or the flu? Dog just died? You still have to go! At a session, if you you don't know (or don't like) a tune set you can sit out, or join in part way through. At a ceilidh, you have to play every tune in every set from the beginning, and keep on playing to the end.
If you are a good session musician, there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to adapt to playing in a ceilidh band - providing that you can accept the level of commitment needed. How to go about it? One way would be to find some capable and like-minded people, and start your own band. Another way would be to work as a stand-in musician with an existing band. Many ceildh band leaders keep a list of musicians that they can call upon to fill in for holidays, illnesses or other emergencies. Try placing an ad in the local paper, music shop, folk club, regional website etc. Or you could try contacting the leaders of your local bands. Whether you'll be in demand or not will depend on various factors e.g. (a) what instrument you play (b) whether you know (or can quickly learn) the band's repertoire (c) whether you can read the dots (some bands play from music). If you can become accepted as a good reliable stand-in with a band, when a permanent vacancy does occur, you'll probably be given first refusal!
Good luck if you decide to try it - but do keep in mind the level of committment needed. With session playing, you fit the session playing into your life. With ceilidh band playing, you fit your life into the ceilidh band playing!
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
Go to some celidihs and learn - it's the best way!
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by snowyowl
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
"With a ceilidh band booking, you've just got to get there - and get there at a specific time."
...then you wait until they're ready for you.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by ragaman
Re: I fancy joining a Ceili Band.
So you're four sheets to the wind by the time the caller tells you to get your act together.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by nicholas