So far all the tunes I've been learning keep well within the D whistle's register. But what do whistlers play when the lowest note in the tune is a low C or A (or lower)? Harmonize or go to the upper register? Apologies for the Whistle 101 question but it will help my understanding (as well as my S factor) to know the answer!
Hi Clogs,
I'm not pretending to be an expert but you can do 2 things when you encounter (say) a low B - play the higher octave - eg the tune "Autumn Child" has a low B A B, and I think it sounds almost as good when you play the higher octave B A B. Contrasts with fiddles anyway!
Or, get yourself an A whistle - you can then play in the keys of A (D fingering) or D (G fingering). Of course the register is not as high, so your highest note is high Fsharp, instead of B.
Yes, that's so true. I have an ever-expanding collection of percussion instruments, which sits next to the equally ever-expanding collection of squeezeboxes, mandolins, guitars, and zouk. Then there's the amps, pianos, bags of cables, mikes, mikestands. Instruments and their accoutrements take up a lot of room. Fortunately, whistles are a little more discreet...still, a dedicated music room to house all this stuff would be ideal...maybe this is new thread!
I usually just improvise the part of the melody that goes out of the whistle's range. Since you're doing it around the quieter lower notes of the whistle, nobody will notice/mind in a session. It sounds better than harmonizing and it's better for the memory than just leaving those notes out.
Not to discourage anyone from acquiring gratuitous whistles, but I think you'll find that there's usually a workaround for a low tune, such that you can play it on a D whistle. The workarounds will vary with the tune, but broadly speaking you can a)bump the offending notes into the next octave, b)move the whole passage up, or even play the whole part higher, c)rework the passage such that the offending notes are replaced by twiddles on D or E, ie EDB,D would become ED ~D2, the twiddle presumably manifesting itself as a cran or a FED triplet, or d)use the offending passage to take a breath. Or e)use the offending tune, which is probably a fiddler's special, as an opportunity to get working on your drink.
Thanks for all this helpful advice - I'll practise a mix of all of the above. I've been attempting to shift into the higher octave but even thought the brain knows the score, the fingers have been getting a bit lost searching for notes in the nether reaches, especially the C. I think it comes from having learned flute and recorder in a previous life. I'll work more on fudging around D, E and F as well.
Jon Kiparsky is dead right above. I was going to try to illustrate one of the techniques (a) by reference to Christy Barrie's No 2 jig. It turns out that Jon himself posted this tune some years ago, and didn't get the ABCs quite right so, if you know the tune, the first bit goes like this:
Apparently it was composed by Tony Sullivan. It was 'made famous' by a recording by Christy Barrie on whistle. And he got round the low B by just playing that one note up an octave, ie:
Be careful with the ABCs though. I would recommend that you use the ones posted by Will CPT in the comments. His are the 'usual' ones, and pretty close to what Christy Barrie plays on the recording I referred to earlier.
This sounds like an exercise in changing a whistle to another key. There are more than D whistles about.
If you are a whistler, you very quickly join the Instrument Acquisition Association. I am a member of clogstepping's club. Herself gives me nevernding grief about it.
She was talking this weekend about when (or maybe if) we would every get a digital TV. Sayeth Herself to her Best Friend-" He'll buy another accordion before he buys a new TV"
With the c**p on TV, particularly in a US election year, I consider TV's a pox on Humanity.
Switching octaves is a tool in the flute players kit - you can practice playing the higher part of a tune in the lower octave and vice versa. Sometimes the switch is made up to conserve air. Good practice for handling bits that go below low D as well, as same intuition applies.
Regarding Christie Barry's #2, Ben Hall is right about the transcription, the one I posted is "not specifically too good" as someone or other once said in another context. I can only plead confusing harmonies on the Kevin Crawford recording in my defense....
Aside from using a different whistle, or substituting notes, you might be interested to know that you can achieve a lower C# on a D whistle by partially covering the end of the whistle with your little finger.
For this to work, both the degree of partial covering by your little finger and your breath level need to be exactly right - not easy!
In a way there are two seperate issues, in playing fiddle/accordion/tenor banjo tunes on whistle:
1) what to do when a tune goes below bottom D
2) what to do when a tune is in a key signature other than one or two sharps
For #1 above, the old-time guys would just play the low notes an octave up. Listen to fluteplayers Matt Molloy and Paddy Carty, both of whom play(ed) a lot of these tunes.
Paddy Carty loved fiddle tunes and sometimes he would end up playing odd-sounding leaps, as when a fiddle tune went D-C#-D. Now, his flute had a key for low C# but he didn't use it. And one would think that he would think the leap Bottom D-middle C#-Bottom D to be jerky, but that's what he would play.
One would think that one would also raise certain other notes surrounding the note(s) below Bottom D to smooth out the phrase, but that's not what these guys do. They ONLY raise the notes below Bottom D, no matter how leapy/jagged the resulting phrase is.
This often works to the flutist's adantage: listen to Matt Molloy play Pull The Knife And Stick It Again. Half the notes are below Bottom D, yet it sounds great. Partly this works because fluteplayers "honk" the Bottom D and that note is sort of "between the octaves" anyway.
I myself prefer to use an Low A whistle or a Low G whistle for certain tunes that dwell below Bottom D. I use the Low A for Bear Reel and The Dawn, and I believe Low G for Tam Linn.
For issue #2 above, many whistle players and even fluteplayers and uilleann pipers bring a C whistle to sessions in order to play fiddle tunes in D minor, G minor, and even the rare C major.
I also bring a Low E whistle to sessions for the fiddle tunes in A Major, which I can then simply play in G.
Whistle 101
Whistle 101
So far all the tunes I've been learning keep well within the D whistle's register. But what do whistlers play when the lowest note in the tune is a low C or A (or lower)? Harmonize or go to the upper register? Apologies for the Whistle 101 question but it will help my understanding (as well as my S factor) to know the answer!
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
Hi Clogs,
I'm not pretending to be an expert but you can do 2 things when you encounter (say) a low B - play the higher octave - eg the tune "Autumn Child" has a low B A B, and I think it sounds almost as good when you play the higher octave B A B. Contrasts with fiddles anyway!
Or, get yourself an A whistle - you can then play in the keys of A (D fingering) or D (G fingering). Of course the register is not as high, so your highest note is high Fsharp, instead of B.
It really depends on the tune.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by buttons 'n' whistles
Re: Whistle 101
Get yourself an A whistle....yay! This is not going to cure my Instrument Acquisition Syndrome....
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
Get the other whistle...sooner or later, all musicians become collectors.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Whistle 101
Yes, that's so true. I have an ever-expanding collection of percussion instruments, which sits next to the equally ever-expanding collection of squeezeboxes, mandolins, guitars, and zouk. Then there's the amps, pianos, bags of cables, mikes, mikestands. Instruments and their accoutrements take up a lot of room. Fortunately, whistles are a little more discreet...still, a dedicated music room to house all this stuff would be ideal...maybe this is new thread!
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
I usually just improvise the part of the melody that goes out of the whistle's range. Since you're doing it around the quieter lower notes of the whistle, nobody will notice/mind in a session. It sounds better than harmonizing and it's better for the memory than just leaving those notes out.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Whistle 101
Not to discourage anyone from acquiring gratuitous whistles, but I think you'll find that there's usually a workaround for a low tune, such that you can play it on a D whistle. The workarounds will vary with the tune, but broadly speaking you can a)bump the offending notes into the next octave, b)move the whole passage up, or even play the whole part higher, c)rework the passage such that the offending notes are replaced by twiddles on D or E, ie EDB,D would become ED ~D2, the twiddle presumably manifesting itself as a cran or a FED triplet, or d)use the offending passage to take a breath. Or e)use the offending tune, which is probably a fiddler's special, as an opportunity to get working on your drink.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whistle 101
(e) sounds especially good...
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
Thanks for all this helpful advice - I'll practise a mix of all of the above. I've been attempting to shift into the higher octave but even thought the brain knows the score, the fingers have been getting a bit lost searching for notes in the nether reaches, especially the C. I think it comes from having learned flute and recorder in a previous life. I'll work more on fudging around D, E and F as well.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
Jon Kiparsky is dead right above. I was going to try to illustrate one of the techniques (a) by reference to Christy Barrie's No 2 jig. It turns out that Jon himself posted this tune some years ago, and didn't get the ABCs quite right so, if you know the tune, the first bit goes like this:
X: 1
T: Christy Barry's
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
R: jig
K: Gmaj
DEG EDB, | DEG ~B3 |
Apparently it was composed by Tony Sullivan. It was 'made famous' by a recording by Christy Barrie on whistle. And he got round the low B by just playing that one note up an octave, ie:
DEG EDB | DEG ~B3 |
Works a treat.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Whistle 101
benhall - do you have the link for that tune? I haven't been able to find it through the search function. Thanks.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zepherin
Re: Whistle 101
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/820
Be careful with the ABCs though. I would recommend that you use the ones posted by Will CPT in the comments. His are the 'usual' ones, and pretty close to what Christy Barrie plays on the recording I referred to earlier.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ethical blend
Re: Whistle 101
I dunno
This sounds like an exercise in changing a whistle to another key. There are more than D whistles about.
If you are a whistler, you very quickly join the Instrument Acquisition Association. I am a member of clogstepping's club. Herself gives me nevernding grief about it.
She was talking this weekend about when (or maybe if) we would every get a digital TV. Sayeth Herself to her Best Friend-" He'll buy another accordion before he buys a new TV"
With the c**p on TV, particularly in a US election year, I consider TV's a pox on Humanity.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by zippydw
Re: Whistle 101
Switching octaves is a tool in the flute players kit - you can practice playing the higher part of a tune in the lower octave and vice versa. Sometimes the switch is made up to conserve air. Good practice for handling bits that go below low D as well, as same intuition applies.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Whistle 101
Regarding Christie Barry's #2, Ben Hall is right about the transcription, the one I posted is "not specifically too good" as someone or other once said in another context. I can only plead confusing harmonies on the Kevin Crawford recording in my defense....
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Whistle 101
Aside from using a different whistle, or substituting notes, you might be interested to know that you can achieve a lower C# on a D whistle by partially covering the end of the whistle with your little finger.
For this to work, both the degree of partial covering by your little finger and your breath level need to be exactly right - not easy!
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle 101
Damned if I can, you must be crossed with an octopus.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by nicholas
Re: Whistle 101
I've just tried it - worked about 3 times out of 10. Still not going to bother practising it though ...
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ethical blend
Low C on a D whistle
Depends on the whistle. Oak lends itself to it. With susato you need to be an octopus
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by sixholes
Re: Whistle 101
In a way there are two seperate issues, in playing fiddle/accordion/tenor banjo tunes on whistle:
1) what to do when a tune goes below bottom D
2) what to do when a tune is in a key signature other than one or two sharps
For #1 above, the old-time guys would just play the low notes an octave up. Listen to fluteplayers Matt Molloy and Paddy Carty, both of whom play(ed) a lot of these tunes.
Paddy Carty loved fiddle tunes and sometimes he would end up playing odd-sounding leaps, as when a fiddle tune went D-C#-D. Now, his flute had a key for low C# but he didn't use it. And one would think that he would think the leap Bottom D-middle C#-Bottom D to be jerky, but that's what he would play.
One would think that one would also raise certain other notes surrounding the note(s) below Bottom D to smooth out the phrase, but that's not what these guys do. They ONLY raise the notes below Bottom D, no matter how leapy/jagged the resulting phrase is.
This often works to the flutist's adantage: listen to Matt Molloy play Pull The Knife And Stick It Again. Half the notes are below Bottom D, yet it sounds great. Partly this works because fluteplayers "honk" the Bottom D and that note is sort of "between the octaves" anyway.
I myself prefer to use an Low A whistle or a Low G whistle for certain tunes that dwell below Bottom D. I use the Low A for Bear Reel and The Dawn, and I believe Low G for Tam Linn.
For issue #2 above, many whistle players and even fluteplayers and uilleann pipers bring a C whistle to sessions in order to play fiddle tunes in D minor, G minor, and even the rare C major.
I also bring a Low E whistle to sessions for the fiddle tunes in A Major, which I can then simply play in G.
# Posted on September 26th 2008 by Richard D Cook