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Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Ok, I've probably already upset a few banjo players with my discussion "Looking for an alternative instrument to the Banjo" http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19150, so here's a slightly different tack...
Few people would disagree that Gerry O'Connor is a great banjo player (and no, that is NOT the topic of this post).
How many banjo players out there would consider changing to CGDA tuning to be better able to emulate Gerry's style of playing? (I am aware that Gerry also uses traditional tuning).
I would imagine that having to re-learn every single tune in a 'different' key would be of inspiration in itself.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I have played in both. GDAE suits me best. I admire Mr OConnor's style but don't want to emulate it. If I need inspiration there are better ways of getting it thanks all the same.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
No. Certainly not to emulate anybody's playing, but probably not for any other reason. Unless I got curious, and then I'd probably just capo the banjo up to the fifth fret, plunk around for a while, and be done with it. Mostly, I don't like the idea of reaching for the F# on the bottom string, and also losing the bottom end of the tunes which go below the staff would bother me.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I gave it a try recently (actually tuning on up to DAEB wasn't a problem on my 17 fretter), but ultimately switched back when I wanted to learn The Peacock's Feather http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/663
I decided I didn't want to miss out on every tune that goes below D. I also found it uncomfortable after a while to constantly fret the 4th string.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
When I got my 'new' banjo (to which a link can be found in this thread http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19150 ), it was strung for CGDA tuning. It sounded so sweet, I was tempted to keep it that way. But I restrung it anyway. It sounds great in GDAE, but I still think the high tuning had the edge as far as tone is concerned. I just find it an awkward tuning for Irish tunes. I'm still considering swapping it back and using it as a chord instrument (for non-Irish music, I hasten to add).
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I play a vintage Gibson Tenor Lute (tenor banjo) which I have tuned to GDAE since I am in the market for an octave mandolin and only want re-learn one set of scales and chords.
I had it tuned as the first four strings of a guitar DGBE and it sounded really bad - so bad I got asked not to play it at Gospel jams sessions on Sunday afternoons down South. I was told in might offend Angels in heaven who were listening.
I might not be going to heaven anyways, so I re-tuned to GDAE and switched to ITM where we do shots of Jameson on Sunday afternoons at the park.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
"I had it tuned as the first four strings of a guitar DGBE and it sounded really bad - so bad I got asked not to play it at Gospel jams sessions on Sunday afternoons down South. I was told in might offend Angels in heaven who were listening."
Were you strumming chords? I think you need to approach the banjo differently to the guitar as a chord instrument - capitalise on the percussive sound of the banjo, using lots of closed chords and left hand damping, rather than letting the chords ring. (And, whilst I'm not generally an advocate of the N-word, I would say NEVER use the tenor banjo as a chord instrument in an Irish traditional session - don't let the 'trad' element mislead you).
I suspect part of the reason your banjo sounded so bad in DBGE was due to intonation issues with that tuning. It's hard enough getting a guitar to sound *really* in tune, but the banjo has a lot of inharmonic overtones to deal with as well. (Although plectrum banjos were/are often tuned this way, so maybe I'm wrong). Tuning in 5ths means that the chords have 'wider' voicings, so the out-of-tuneness is less relative to the intervals between notes. Also, I find that higher-pitched chords sound better on the banjo, so CGDA tuning works better than GDAE - or just play in higher positions.
I will emphasise again, just for good measure, that none of this applies to Irish music - just keep playing the tunes. (Parlor B - You are no doubt intelligent enough to surmise this for yourself, but, you understand, I would hate to be charged with such a heinous offence as inciting the strumming of a banjo in a session - a worse crime, even, that the strumming itself).
As for Gospel jams, have you considered taking up the harp (the kind you caress with your fingers, not the kind you blow)? It might reduce the celestial paracetamol bill considerably.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Gospel sessions in North central Florida can be very lively - it wasn't the music. Try playing "Will the circle be unbroken" real fast sometime.
My 1924 Gibson Tenor Lute was never intended to be strummed and played as a guitar. It had sat in a case for over 30 years and it was my attempt to use it when I renewed my interest in playing guitar.
It sounds OK in octave mandolin GDAE tuning and serve me well as such. The tuners are 85 years are old and will stay in tune for one or two songs. But replacing them would devalue the instrument for sure.
A 1924 Gibson TL (not as complete as mine) recently sold at a shop in Canada for $3,995.00 US. My Gibson never leaves the house which is why I looking for octave mandolin to play at sessions. I play background guitar at sessions now but I am taking TIM lessons to learn tunes/melodies. I practice on my Gibson for now.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
"The tuners are 85 years are old and will stay in tune for one or two songs. But replacing them would devalue the instrument for sure."
You might be able to find some geared tuners that you could fit without any modification to the headstock. Then you could keep the original tuners separately in the case, so that, if you ever sell it, the buyer could put them back if they so chose. I don't think that would diminish the value, so long as no damage is done in the changeover.
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Rick - You be the judge
For: - As I have said, *my* banjo sounds sweeter in CGDA - the same may well be true for other banjos
Against: - You'll have to re-learn all your tunes with different fingering (or play them all a 4th higher than their usual keys, making it difficult for others to play along )
- You lose all notes below low C, so you'll have to either modify the parts of tunes that use those notes, or play the whole tune an octave higher (fiddle pitch) and use higher positions for all notes above high D.
You might view the 'against' points as an opportunity to challenge yourself - which will ultimately make you a better and more adaptable musician (especially if you continue to play GDAE-tuned instruments concurrently). Of course, for classical string players, and players of many other genres (jazz, bluegrass, rock, klezmer....) shifting position is a given, so it is no insurmountable task to learn.
You can try restringing and retuning your banjo, and if you don't like it, it will only take a few minutes to put the old strings back again. Alternatively, to save yourself the trouble of swapping strings, you could just try transposing your tunes down a 4th (or up a 5th) in the existing tuning, which would require the same fingering as playing them in the standard keys using CGDA tuning.
Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Ok, I've probably already upset a few banjo players with my discussion "Looking for an alternative instrument to the Banjo" http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19150, so here's a slightly different tack...
Few people would disagree that Gerry O'Connor is a great banjo player (and no, that is NOT the topic of this post).
How many banjo players out there would consider changing to CGDA tuning to be better able to emulate Gerry's style of playing? (I am aware that Gerry also uses traditional tuning).
I would imagine that having to re-learn every single tune in a 'different' key would be of inspiration in itself.
# Posted on September 21st 2008 by Rick Payman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I have played in both. GDAE suits me best. I admire Mr OConnor's style but don't want to emulate it. If I need inspiration there are better ways of getting it thanks all the same.
# Posted on September 21st 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
You can't upset banjo players - they wouldn't play the banjo if they were sensitive souls!
(only joking! - I play the banjo)
# Posted on September 21st 2008 by RichardB
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
No. Certainly not to emulate anybody's playing, but probably not for any other reason. Unless I got curious, and then I'd probably just capo the banjo up to the fifth fret, plunk around for a while, and be done with it. Mostly, I don't like the idea of reaching for the F# on the bottom string, and also losing the bottom end of the tunes which go below the staff would bother me.
# Posted on September 21st 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I can play tunes in both tunings but 90% of the time I use GDAE.
Once you learn or work out a few tunes in CGDA it will become easy to play more tunes on it with the different fingering.
Gerry O'Connor himself actually tunes his banjo to DGDA nowadays.
# Posted on September 21st 2008 by riada
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I gave it a try recently (actually tuning on up to DAEB wasn't a problem on my 17 fretter), but ultimately switched back when I wanted to learn The Peacock's Feather
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/663
I decided I didn't want to miss out on every tune that goes below D. I also found it uncomfortable after a while to constantly fret the 4th string.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Thomaston
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
When I got my 'new' banjo (to which a link can be found in this thread http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/19150 ), it was strung for CGDA tuning. It sounded so sweet, I was tempted to keep it that way. But I restrung it anyway. It sounds great in GDAE, but I still think the high tuning had the edge as far as tone is concerned. I just find it an awkward tuning for Irish tunes. I'm still considering swapping it back and using it as a chord instrument (for non-Irish music, I hasten to add).
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ragaman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
I play a vintage Gibson Tenor Lute (tenor banjo) which I have tuned to GDAE since I am in the market for an octave mandolin and only want re-learn one set of scales and chords.
I had it tuned as the first four strings of a guitar DGBE and it sounded really bad - so bad I got asked not to play it at Gospel jams sessions on Sunday afternoons down South. I was told in might offend Angels in heaven who were listening.
I might not be going to heaven anyways, so I re-tuned to GDAE and switched to ITM where we do shots of Jameson on Sunday afternoons at the park.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Parlor Boyle
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
"I had it tuned as the first four strings of a guitar DGBE and it sounded really bad - so bad I got asked not to play it at Gospel jams sessions on Sunday afternoons down South. I was told in might offend Angels in heaven who were listening."
Were you strumming chords? I think you need to approach the banjo differently to the guitar as a chord instrument - capitalise on the percussive sound of the banjo, using lots of closed chords and left hand damping, rather than letting the chords ring. (And, whilst I'm not generally an advocate of the N-word, I would say NEVER use the tenor banjo as a chord instrument in an Irish traditional session - don't let the 'trad' element mislead you).
I suspect part of the reason your banjo sounded so bad in DBGE was due to intonation issues with that tuning. It's hard enough getting a guitar to sound *really* in tune, but the banjo has a lot of inharmonic overtones to deal with as well. (Although plectrum banjos were/are often tuned this way, so maybe I'm wrong). Tuning in 5ths means that the chords have 'wider' voicings, so the out-of-tuneness is less relative to the intervals between notes. Also, I find that higher-pitched chords sound better on the banjo, so CGDA tuning works better than GDAE - or just play in higher positions.
I will emphasise again, just for good measure, that none of this applies to Irish music - just keep playing the tunes. (Parlor B - You are no doubt intelligent enough to surmise this for yourself, but, you understand, I would hate to be charged with such a heinous offence as inciting the strumming of a banjo in a session - a worse crime, even, that the strumming itself).
As for Gospel jams, have you considered taking up the harp (the kind you caress with your fingers, not the kind you blow)? It might reduce the celestial paracetamol bill considerably.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ragaman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Gospel sessions in North central Florida can be very lively - it wasn't the music. Try playing "Will the circle be unbroken" real fast sometime.
My 1924 Gibson Tenor Lute was never intended to be strummed and played as a guitar. It had sat in a case for over 30 years and it was my attempt to use it when I renewed my interest in playing guitar.
It sounds OK in octave mandolin GDAE tuning and serve me well as such. The tuners are 85 years are old and will stay in tune for one or two songs. But replacing them would devalue the instrument for sure.
A 1924 Gibson TL (not as complete as mine) recently sold at a shop in Canada for $3,995.00 US. My Gibson never leaves the house which is why I looking for octave mandolin to play at sessions. I play background guitar at sessions now but I am taking TIM lessons to learn tunes/melodies. I practice on my Gibson for now.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Parlor Boyle
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
"The tuners are 85 years are old and will stay in tune for one or two songs. But replacing them would devalue the instrument for sure."
You might be able to find some geared tuners that you could fit without any modification to the headstock. Then you could keep the original tuners separately in the case, so that, if you ever sell it, the buyer could put them back if they so chose. I don't think that would diminish the value, so long as no damage is done in the changeover.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by ragaman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Hmm. I'll take all that as "Not a lot."
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Rick Payman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Sorry: I'll take all that as "Not a lot.", and many thanks for your comments.
# Posted on September 22nd 2008 by Rick Payman
Re: Would you consider changing from Irish to Tenor banjo tuning?
Rick - You be the judge
For: - As I have said, *my* banjo sounds sweeter in CGDA - the same may well be true for other banjos
Against: - You'll have to re-learn all your tunes with different fingering (or play them all a 4th higher than their usual keys, making it difficult for others to play along
)
- You lose all notes below low C, so you'll have to either modify the parts of tunes that use those notes, or play the whole tune an octave higher (fiddle pitch) and use higher positions for all notes above high D.
You might view the 'against' points as an opportunity to challenge yourself - which will ultimately make you a better and more adaptable musician (especially if you continue to play GDAE-tuned instruments concurrently). Of course, for classical string players, and players of many other genres (jazz, bluegrass, rock, klezmer....) shifting position is a given, so it is no insurmountable task to learn.
You can try restringing and retuning your banjo, and if you don't like it, it will only take a few minutes to put the old strings back again. Alternatively, to save yourself the trouble of swapping strings, you could just try transposing your tunes down a 4th (or up a 5th) in the existing tuning, which would require the same fingering as playing them in the standard keys using CGDA tuning.
Merry experimenting.
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by ragaman