It might depend on how you hear the tunes and the types of tunes you like to play. For example, it was a bit of a shock to me to find that tunes in D major...tunes that might be considered session favourites such as Tobins, Gerry's Beaver Hat, Mountain Road etc were quite tricky on the concertina to begin with, and tunes in C,G and F were generally not so tricky and fell easier to the fingers. whereas say for a fiddle player starting ott, tunes in F might be avoided.I believe that there are similar challenges early on in box playing depending on whether you opt for a B/C or C#/D box but box players will help you there. But like everything else practice makes perfect and in time things level out on all instruments- each having it's advantages and disadvantages. There could also be the question of what sound do you like the best- the single reed sound of a concertina or the more sometimes layered sound of a box( depending on the reed tuning)
I play D/G box (accordion, melodeon), and tried to learn a B/C one, but it was so different I gave up.
I think the C#D box (the most used in Irish music along with the BC) would be easier to learn, as you play a lot up and down the D row, which gives the music a natural rhythm and keeps the bellows from opening or closing too much.
I only saw the disadvantages of the B/C - the bellows having to open or close to a sequence of notes in one direction, as one played across the rows, and the lack of rhythmic support from the instrument. But B/C players may speak here of its advantages. One thing is for certain, though - magnificent music has been played on both the B/C and the C#/D by proficient players.
Methinks every instrument has its difficulties, and every player will put an emphasis on how his or her instrument is the best... For me it's a matter of taste : if you love the sound of an instrument, then do try to learn it... specially as there are so many different types : BC, C#D, DG accordions, anglo, english or duett concertinas... it's just endless ! so take the one you like best, and try ! at the beginning it's difficult anyway ! but after a while it's just soooo great !
i've always guessed that concertina is most suited to minds with a non-linear bent (that would be me). the fingering sequences can seem like perfect nonsense, which is part of the fun for me. i can find new and better fingering and 'push/pull' combinations to tunes i've been playing for years, usually by accident. accordions seem more linear to me -- not entirely so, with cross-key stuff, but more so than with 'tinas. concertinas, in fact, seem altogether preposterous to me, and i usually play with a little inward chuckle -- which is only intensified after looking inside the silly things. they look like a monty python routine in there. if concertinas were airplanes, i would NEVER fly in one (how's that for non-linear thinking?)!
I don't know if B/C constitutes a breakthrough in 'linear' thinking
I get a kick out of explaining it to non-musicians, or worse piano players, who think all there is to making orderly music sound is pushing keys and doing scales. When they see what is involved in diatonic their eyes glaze over and they are more appreciative of the kids hammering out their scales on the Living Room Piano for Mrs. PianoTeacher.
Treble side of concertina in either concertina and box is going to be a strange and non-linear for anyone learning so, my logic tree suggests that one would be indifferent to that consideration in the decision.
I suspect the more significant question is if one is planning to learn box the typical way with very little emphesis (or none in many cases) on playing bass, or if one planned to learn bass as an integral part of the box experience. I am in the latter group and using the bass really adds another dimension in having to understand bellows use particulary in regards to corresponding 'alternate' right hand buttons and that impact on fingering technique and 'flow'.
(this is what happens when an engineer/musician gets and MBA. We learn to write sophisticated gibberish!)
Anyway. Concertina is on my agenda for 2010 once Mr. Williams has successfully guided my path to full Karmic completeness on the Kosher Connemara!
I play a one row melodeon which is very linear, and have just recently been learning concertina. To me it's easier to think of the concertina button layout as melodeon rows that go up one side and down the other instead of left hand and right hand. Then it's less preposterous. To me. You still have to cross rows, but finding the buttons make more sense to me like that. Accordions I think can be more physical to play while concertinas offer a little more relaxed playing style. My two cents.
The concertina is a fat little wriggling bad-tempered brute, begotten when a novelty mated with a hedgehog.
The accordion, by contrast, is a noble organ, easily supplying its owner with at least the illusion of raw power (yes, I'm the linear type). And its case is - or should be - sturdy enough to sit on in a crowded session with no chairs available, which is a tremendous plus.
But more seriously, Dyna - be careful what instrument you buy first, whether it's a concertina or a melodion / accordion: cheap ones are often no good for Irish music - the action's not good enough to play fast stuff (and I don't just mean super-fast). If you can afford a good one, get it, but if you get a cheap one, do so in awareness of its limitations - or you'll be very frustrated by it.
accordion vs. concertina - 2
accordion vs. concertina - 2
More difficult accordion or concertina?
(at the begin and, then, well played...)
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by dyna
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
It might depend on how you hear the tunes and the types of tunes you like to play. For example, it was a bit of a shock to me to find that tunes in D major...tunes that might be considered session favourites such as Tobins, Gerry's Beaver Hat, Mountain Road etc were quite tricky on the concertina to begin with, and tunes in C,G and F were generally not so tricky and fell easier to the fingers. whereas say for a fiddle player starting ott, tunes in F might be avoided.I believe that there are similar challenges early on in box playing depending on whether you opt for a B/C or C#/D box but box players will help you there. But like everything else practice makes perfect and in time things level out on all instruments- each having it's advantages and disadvantages. There could also be the question of what sound do you like the best- the single reed sound of a concertina or the more sometimes layered sound of a box( depending on the reed tuning)
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
I play D/G box (accordion, melodeon), and tried to learn a B/C one, but it was so different I gave up.
I think the C#D box (the most used in Irish music along with the BC) would be easier to learn, as you play a lot up and down the D row, which gives the music a natural rhythm and keeps the bellows from opening or closing too much.
I only saw the disadvantages of the B/C - the bellows having to open or close to a sequence of notes in one direction, as one played across the rows, and the lack of rhythmic support from the instrument. But B/C players may speak here of its advantages. One thing is for certain, though - magnificent music has been played on both the B/C and the C#/D by proficient players.
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by nicholas
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
Methinks every instrument has its difficulties, and every player will put an emphasis on how his or her instrument is the best... For me it's a matter of taste : if you love the sound of an instrument, then do try to learn it... specially as there are so many different types : BC, C#D, DG accordions, anglo, english or duett concertinas... it's just endless ! so take the one you like best, and try ! at the beginning it's difficult anyway ! but after a while it's just soooo great !
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by Nikita Pfister
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
i've always guessed that concertina is most suited to minds with a non-linear bent (that would be me). the fingering sequences can seem like perfect nonsense, which is part of the fun for me. i can find new and better fingering and 'push/pull' combinations to tunes i've been playing for years, usually by accident. accordions seem more linear to me -- not entirely so, with cross-key stuff, but more so than with 'tinas. concertinas, in fact, seem altogether preposterous to me, and i usually play with a little inward chuckle -- which is only intensified after looking inside the silly things. they look like a monty python routine in there. if concertinas were airplanes, i would NEVER fly in one (how's that for non-linear thinking?)!
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by 'tinamatt
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
i'm a big fan of the stenographone, but as a piper i prefer the poly-tonic enigma machine- better overall mix of sounds between the two contraptions
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
I don't know if B/C constitutes a breakthrough in 'linear' thinking
I get a kick out of explaining it to non-musicians, or worse piano players, who think all there is to making orderly music sound is pushing keys and doing scales. When they see what is involved in diatonic their eyes glaze over and they are more appreciative of the kids hammering out their scales on the Living Room Piano for Mrs. PianoTeacher.
Treble side of concertina in either concertina and box is going to be a strange and non-linear for anyone learning so, my logic tree suggests that one would be indifferent to that consideration in the decision.
I suspect the more significant question is if one is planning to learn box the typical way with very little emphesis (or none in many cases) on playing bass, or if one planned to learn bass as an integral part of the box experience. I am in the latter group and using the bass really adds another dimension in having to understand bellows use particulary in regards to corresponding 'alternate' right hand buttons and that impact on fingering technique and 'flow'.
(this is what happens when an engineer/musician gets and MBA. We learn to write sophisticated gibberish!)
Anyway. Concertina is on my agenda for 2010 once Mr. Williams has successfully guided my path to full Karmic completeness on the Kosher Connemara!
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by zippydw
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
third parapgrah forget the first 'of concertina'. Typing ahead of thinking...
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by zippydw
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
I play a one row melodeon which is very linear, and have just recently been learning concertina. To me it's easier to think of the concertina button layout as melodeon rows that go up one side and down the other instead of left hand and right hand. Then it's less preposterous. To me. You still have to cross rows, but finding the buttons make more sense to me like that. Accordions I think can be more physical to play while concertinas offer a little more relaxed playing style. My two cents.
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by PatrickJWK
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
C/G anglos are brilliant!!
Hours, nay, years of endless fun working out different ways to make a phrase easier to finger.
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
The concertina is a fat little wriggling bad-tempered brute, begotten when a novelty mated with a hedgehog.
The accordion, by contrast, is a noble organ, easily supplying its owner with at least the illusion of raw power (yes, I'm the linear type). And its case is - or should be - sturdy enough to sit on in a crowded session with no chairs available, which is a tremendous plus.
But more seriously, Dyna - be careful what instrument you buy first, whether it's a concertina or a melodion / accordion: cheap ones are often no good for Irish music - the action's not good enough to play fast stuff (and I don't just mean super-fast). If you can afford a good one, get it, but if you get a cheap one, do so in awareness of its limitations - or you'll be very frustrated by it.
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by nicholas
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
Agreed. If you buy a cheap one, you may quit or buy the more expensive one within a year.
I got lucky. My first is a gem....For some tunes tuned more appropriately than my 'step-up' instrument.
But I tried out alot of junk getting there (probably from people cleaning out basements and not knowing what they have).
# Posted on September 17th 2008 by zippydw
Re: accordion vs. concertina - 2
Accordions burn longer than concertinas.
# Posted on September 18th 2008 by Dave Hanson