You get these musicians who won't play one tune at a time, they are sets-obsessed.....
And the ones to whom it matters which particular religious group you belong to, they are sects-obsessed......
Who started this ?
So, the commonly used sentence "Irish music is an oral tradition" one should say "oral/aural tradition".
Or we'd never know the names of the tunes.
It's getting deeper
What do you mean by "repertoire"? The tunes or the names of the tunes?
If you are talking about the tunes, many will say that the music is learned aurally, unless you learn visually! (by reading musical notation).
If you (as a musician) are asking (orally) about the name of a tune (so you can go and look it up visually), then you will / may be told verbally / orally, and if you listen you will then learn the name aurally (unless it is written down for you on a drink coaster or some such for you (maybe because either the tune player and / or yourself are too langered to talk), in which case you will learn the name visually again.)
Much like as what is happening write / right here.
I guess there's not a lot of straight answers here - a bit like celtic knot artwork perhaps. Are you into that?!
Mate, if you broaden the PhD topic by bringing in these other searching aspects, and really challenge your supervisor (in a friendly intellectual way of course), I reckon you could actually jag a high distinction for your thesis. You could then become a published author and even become a university lecturer.
Doesn't that sound great?
The oral tradition is storytelling. The aural tradition is passing tunes on by ear. Often confused because they sound the same.
By the way, I am seeing more and more similar sounding words in the wrong places on line these days, even on news sites. Does no one do copy editing any more?
When I was at fiddle workshops in Donegal in August (it was perfectly dry indoors, btw) I learnt that the Donegal tradition is about as aural as it comes, many really old tunes have yet to be written down, and, of the 20 tunes we were taught in the workshops, 8 of them were gan ainm.
And to think I thought Ireland was the last bastion of good English (along with the Highlands of Scotland where I come from)! As I seem to remember it, “traditional” comes from “traditio” , the Latin for “handing down”. So the handing down bit of tradition is done orally (by mouth) and the acquiring bit is done aurally (by ear). So they’re not just interchangeable. Orally and aurally should not be pronounced the same. One is o-rally and the other is aw-rally (or even something like owe-rally – owe as in cry of pain that is – if you go back to the Latin root (auris = ear)). Believe it or not, young people, they used to teach this sort of stuff in school in the 50s and 60s!
Both. Depends on he context. It is traditionally transferred orally from teacher to student. It was the only way they could pass the music down because of the attempts by the English to suppress/eliminate the Irish culture. Actually pretty typcial of most folk music traditions.
Skooter: It's not about voting, it's about being correct. You have your answer. The correct sentence is the second one, as you have written it. You did not say it is passed down, you say it is acquired, thus giving the context in which you are using the word.
Many years ago, I was watching a comedy program on one of the premium cable channels (HBO maybe) and there was this comedian who was making fun of sleazy televangelists. I don't remember the man's actual name but he was performing as the Reverend Orel Love and he wore an exaggerated and overdone version of the type of clothes normally worn by a televangelist.
Reverend Love was urging the audience to drink plenty of alcoholic beverages because they were the purest, most filtered, most distilled stuff you could drink as opposed to other beverages.
According to the Reverend Love, coffee came from beans and beans give you gas. Besides, the coffee may have been ground this morning and who wants to drink mud?
As for water, it may have been purified but they add chemicals to our water.
As for drinking milk, that comes from cows and cows eat grass. The Reverend Love reminded us that smoking "grass" (as in the slang term for marijuana) was supposed to be as bad for us as smoking anything.
So it was best for us to try to be as pure as possible by drinking these alcoholic beverages that had been distilled and filtered thoroughly.
Oral or Aural?
Oral or Aural?
What is the correct way to write this sentence:
"In common with the folk music of many countries, repertoire in Irish traditional music is primarily acquired orally"
or
"In common with the folk music of many countries, repertoire in Irish traditional music is primarily acquired aurally"
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by skooter500
Re: Oral or Aural?
Oral = mouth (spoken, sung, lilted)
Aural = ears
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Oral or Aural?
if it was acquired orally, we'd be eating the tunes
Seriously though...2nd one is correct IMHO
hth,
andy
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by andy69
Re: Oral or Aural?
Mmm...tunes...BURP!
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Oral or Aural?
So, listening to pornography on the radio would be aural se...? Whew, caught myself just in time.
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Oral or Aural?
"Aural" or "Aurally" is correct.
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Oral or Aural?
The trouble is, both words sound the same when spoken, so confusion is not unexpected.
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Oral or Aural?
and then there is the notion of an "oral " tradition, as in not being written down, but passed down from one generation to the next by word of mouth.
So if I saw in print "...repertoire in Irish traditional music is primarily acquired orally" I would get the point that it is not written down.
but there is still a distinction between this music and pop music, which is basically aquired by suppository
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Oral or Aural?
heh
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Oral or Aural?
There are probably groups on each side of the issue right? Oral sects and aural sects.
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Oral or Aural?
crazy_fingerz, are all of these groups on both sides of the issue obsessed with "sets" or "sects" or maybe even unsafe "sax"?
# Posted on September 11th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Oral or Aural?
You get these musicians who won't play one tune at a time, they are sets-obsessed.....
And the ones to whom it matters which particular religious group you belong to, they are sects-obsessed......
Who started this ?
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Oral or Aural?
So, the commonly used sentence "Irish music is an oral tradition" one should say "oral/aural tradition".
Or we'd never know the names of the tunes.
It's getting deeper
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by mcknowall
Re: Oral or Aural?
Nate you beat me to it, but with more class
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Hup
Re: Oral or Aural?
Oral-ly - with the help of god.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Toppish
Re: Oral or Aural?
Orally / aurally ish.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Oral or Aural?
Orally was the builder who worked for Basil Faulty
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by black
Re: Oral or Aural?
...and Basil Fawlty.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Oral or Aural?
Hmmm
I need an answer for my thesis. So far aurally is winning. Any more votes for orally?
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by skooter500
Re: Oral or Aural?
Irish music is mostly acquired O'Reilly
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by de Selby
Re: Oral or Aural?
O'Really!
What do you mean by "repertoire"? The tunes or the names of the tunes?
If you are talking about the tunes, many will say that the music is learned aurally, unless you learn visually! (by reading musical notation).
If you (as a musician) are asking (orally) about the name of a tune (so you can go and look it up visually), then you will / may be told verbally / orally, and if you listen you will then learn the name aurally (unless it is written down for you on a drink coaster or some such for you (maybe because either the tune player and / or yourself are too langered to talk), in which case you will learn the name visually again.)
Much like as what is happening write / right here.
I guess there's not a lot of straight answers here - a bit like celtic knot artwork perhaps. Are you into that?!
Does this help? (before I go on...?)
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Oral or Aural?
Mate, if you broaden the PhD topic by bringing in these other searching aspects, and really challenge your supervisor (in a friendly intellectual way of course), I reckon you could actually jag a high distinction for your thesis. You could then become a published author and even become a university lecturer.
Doesn't that sound great?
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Oral or Aural?
The oral tradition is storytelling. The aural tradition is passing tunes on by ear. Often confused because they sound the same.
By the way, I am seeing more and more similar sounding words in the wrong places on line these days, even on news sites. Does no one do copy editing any more?
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Oral or Aural?
When I was at fiddle workshops in Donegal in August (it was perfectly dry indoors, btw) I learnt that the Donegal tradition is about as aural as it comes, many really old tunes have yet to be written down, and, of the 20 tunes we were taught in the workshops, 8 of them were gan ainm.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Oral or Aural?
And to think I thought Ireland was the last bastion of good English (along with the Highlands of Scotland where I come from)!
As I seem to remember it, “traditional” comes from “traditio” , the Latin for “handing down”. So the handing down bit of tradition is done orally (by mouth) and the acquiring bit is done aurally (by ear). So they’re not just interchangeable. Orally and aurally should not be pronounced the same. One is o-rally and the other is aw-rally (or even something like owe-rally – owe as in cry of pain that is – if you go back to the Latin root (auris = ear)). Believe it or not, young people, they used to teach this sort of stuff in school in the 50s and 60s!
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by SYcove
Re: Oral or Aural?
See my post above! Of course the oral bit doesn't (always) get involved so much if your music is handed down by instrument.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by SYcove
Re: Oral or Aural?
Both. Depends on he context. It is traditionally transferred orally from teacher to student. It was the only way they could pass the music down because of the attempts by the English to suppress/eliminate the Irish culture. Actually pretty typcial of most folk music traditions.
The student is learning it aurally-by ear.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by zippydw
Re: Oral or Aural?
Skooter: It's not about voting, it's about being correct. You have your answer. The correct sentence is the second one, as you have written it. You did not say it is passed down, you say it is acquired, thus giving the context in which you are using the word.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Oral or Aural?
This very question about not being able to distinguish the spoken words "Aural" and "Oral" says something about the value of writing!
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Mark Harmer
Re: Oral or Aural?
So Mark I wonder what is the Kanji for these 2 words (?)
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by Random_notes
Re: Oral or Aural?
Many years ago, I was watching a comedy program on one of the premium cable channels (HBO maybe) and there was this comedian who was making fun of sleazy televangelists. I don't remember the man's actual name but he was performing as the Reverend Orel Love and he wore an exaggerated and overdone version of the type of clothes normally worn by a televangelist.
Reverend Love was urging the audience to drink plenty of alcoholic beverages because they were the purest, most filtered, most distilled stuff you could drink as opposed to other beverages.
According to the Reverend Love, coffee came from beans and beans give you gas. Besides, the coffee may have been ground this morning and who wants to drink mud?
As for water, it may have been purified but they add chemicals to our water.
As for drinking milk, that comes from cows and cows eat grass. The Reverend Love reminded us that smoking "grass" (as in the slang term for marijuana) was supposed to be as bad for us as smoking anything.
So it was best for us to try to be as pure as possible by drinking these alcoholic beverages that had been distilled and filtered thoroughly.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Oral or Aural?
Sure. I used to make buckets of home brew and strain it through my socks. Or my mother's old tights. I'm not sure I remember. I'm not sure I wish to.
The Vikings apparently used to drink the essence of fly agaric mushrooms that had been filtered through the kidneys of their leaders.
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Oral or Aural?
Then there is that folk tune that Elvis recorded: Love Me Tender (Auralee)
: p
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Oral or Aural?
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XZ_o0EaM8
oral...
# Posted on September 12th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: Oral or Aural?
In Germany, do they filter anything through the kidneys of their Lieder?
# Posted on September 13th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Oral or Aural?
No, but you can see their naked knees in their lederhosen!
# Posted on September 13th 2008 by pipewatcher
Re: Oral or Aural?
Were you thinking of the Singing Stockings pipewatcher?
# Posted on September 14th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Oral or Aural?
Can be either - I'm sure if you Google Scholar both terms with music you should find a ref that discusses both.
# Posted on September 14th 2008 by continuo