I'm looking at the cover of the CD "Frankie Gavin and Alec Finn", and I see Frankie has his little finger on the leather pad where a classical violinist would place their index finger. That seems to be where my little finger ends up too. I don't put it there consciously, it just goes there. I see lots of traditional fiddlers move the bow hand along the stick like this.
I suspect it's an attempt, subconscious or otherwise, to get a lighter feel and balance in the bow, and probably depends on the type of music.
Irish fiddle music comes down from the Baroque period, when light, baroque bows were used for the very fast and light playing. At the end of the 18th century and the early part of the 19th the bow developed into its modern form which was designed to cope with the louder and more spectacular orchestral and solo violin music that was coming along. Between the baroque and the modern bow was the halfway house of the so-called "transitional" bow which would have been used in the second half of the 18th century. Once again, this bow was meeting the demands of Haydn, Mozart and their contemporaries.
It would be useful to borrow a baroque or transitional bow to see how it suits Irish fiddle music. Be aware, however, that the baroque bow in particular needs a different approach to bowing technique and tone production.
I hold it by the rod a little ways up the bow, usually with my thumb just past the leather thing that wraps around (I don't know any technical names of bow parts), with a pretty straight wrist. I just copied that hold from some good session players.
In answer to the specific question, I use the standard “classical” hold, but I am aware, when playing cello in my chamber orchestra, that if we're playing Bach or Vivaldi my bow hold will tend to creep about an inch up the stick. I'll also add that if you hold the bow way up the stick – I've seen examples of the fiddle bow being held a quarter of the way up the stick – the main effect will be a significant reduction in tonal volume (this probably doesn't matter too much if you're in a band and using a mic or pickup).
I've noticed this sometimes where players hold the bow half way up the stick. It looks very awkward and I can't think what the advantages, if any, might be. Unfortunately a lot of the time we end up in situations playing for set dancers or in competition with PAs, loud Paolo Sopranas, etc so that volume often becomes a necessary requirement (evil) so that the standard bow hold is probably best.
I used to hold the bow on the stick just above the wrapping. Then I bought a new bow and automatically started holding it in the standard hold. I just feels so natural I didn't even notice at first. The new bow is beautifully balanced. My "old" bow now feels awkward and takes a lot of work to control.
The main advantage of holding it high up on the stick is that it can make it easier to play fast when going across strings. You don't have to move the bow as much when crossing strings. But you will have a weaker tone since you're losing a lot of the weight of the stick on the string.
It's a personal choice, really. I've seen great players hold their bows in all kinds of different ways, from the standard classical hold to almost halfway up the stick. Experiment and see what works for you.
I've gone through my life on the principle that you do whatever is the generally accepted, tried and tested, norm ... unless you've got a bloody good reason *not* to. Like you're a genius or something. On that principle, *unless* you're a genius in any case and can therefore do what you like, use the standard hold. It works.
"do whatever is the generally accepted, tried and tested, norm"
Whose norm? Do you think that all the norms of classical playing apply 100% to fiddling, or do you think that maybe the differences in technique just might mean that there can be different ways of doing things?
Do you think that all Baroque music should be played with French bows, since the French bow is the current norm? Or is the difference in bows and bowing technique appropriate to a completely different style of music?
I play with the standard classical hold, by the way, because I came from a classical background. But I see clear advantages to the odd holds that some fiddlers use. It doesn't take a genius to see that other bow holds can work.
Lazyhound, my personal experience is that a baroque bow works very nicely indeed, so nicely that I don't use it becuase I get too used to it and I'd rather take my cheaper hatchet-head bow to a session that a more delicate pike's head bow ... if I ever go to another session, that is.
I use an orthodox (classical) sort of hold - it gives you lots of leverage
and power with any extra work. Good violinists do all kinds of complex
string changing and bowing patterns without any need to "choke up"
on the bow.
A couple of years ago the great Aussie fiddle Adrian Barker told us (a
class that is) how he used to have the Gavin-style choke hold. His
brother is a cellist and got him to rethink it. I don't know how he was
before, maybe no different, but Ado's got a huge, dominating sound and
he doesn't put any visible effort into it.
Used to hold pretty high up the bow, but after breaking my collarbone this summer, have gone down to a classical grip. Gets me better tone, but (so far) slightly less versatility (or so I imagine).
Where do you hold the bow?
Where do you hold the bow?
I'm looking at the cover of the CD "Frankie Gavin and Alec Finn", and I see Frankie has his little finger on the leather pad where a classical violinist would place their index finger. That seems to be where my little finger ends up too. I don't put it there consciously, it just goes there. I see lots of traditional fiddlers move the bow hand along the stick like this.
Where do you hold it, and why?
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Bernie 29
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
i hold it in a standard grip, but my hand slips up the stick. so i slide it back down again! if i dont i hit the strings with the tip of the bow.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Ionannas
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I suspect it's an attempt, subconscious or otherwise, to get a lighter feel and balance in the bow, and probably depends on the type of music.
Irish fiddle music comes down from the Baroque period, when light, baroque bows were used for the very fast and light playing. At the end of the 18th century and the early part of the 19th the bow developed into its modern form which was designed to cope with the louder and more spectacular orchestral and solo violin music that was coming along. Between the baroque and the modern bow was the halfway house of the so-called "transitional" bow which would have been used in the second half of the 18th century. Once again, this bow was meeting the demands of Haydn, Mozart and their contemporaries.
It would be useful to borrow a baroque or transitional bow to see how it suits Irish fiddle music. Be aware, however, that the baroque bow in particular needs a different approach to bowing technique and tone production.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I hold it by the rod a little ways up the bow, usually with my thumb just past the leather thing that wraps around (I don't know any technical names of bow parts), with a pretty straight wrist. I just copied that hold from some good session players.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I use the standard hold, though my pinkie is on the stick only when it needs to be.
Why? Because (most importantly) it feels good to me and (an auxilliary benefit) I like being able to use the whole bow if need be.
I've tried holding farther up the stick and it just never felt right.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
In answer to the specific question, I use the standard “classical” hold, but I am aware, when playing cello in my chamber orchestra, that if we're playing Bach or Vivaldi my bow hold will tend to creep about an inch up the stick. I'll also add that if you hold the bow way up the stick – I've seen examples of the fiddle bow being held a quarter of the way up the stick – the main effect will be a significant reduction in tonal volume (this probably doesn't matter too much if you're in a band and using a mic or pickup).
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I've noticed this sometimes where players hold the bow half way up the stick. It looks very awkward and I can't think what the advantages, if any, might be. Unfortunately a lot of the time we end up in situations playing for set dancers or in competition with PAs, loud Paolo Sopranas, etc so that volume often becomes a necessary requirement (evil) so that the standard bow hold is probably best.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Bannerman
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I used to hold the bow on the stick just above the wrapping. Then I bought a new bow and automatically started holding it in the standard hold. I just feels so natural I didn't even notice at first. The new bow is beautifully balanced. My "old" bow now feels awkward and takes a lot of work to control.
Mary
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Antikhntr
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
Heh, I never really thought about that before--that an off-kilter bow might induce some people to choke up just to control it.
Enjoy that new bow, Mary!
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
The main advantage of holding it high up on the stick is that it can make it easier to play fast when going across strings. You don't have to move the bow as much when crossing strings. But you will have a weaker tone since you're losing a lot of the weight of the stick on the string.
It's a personal choice, really. I've seen great players hold their bows in all kinds of different ways, from the standard classical hold to almost halfway up the stick. Experiment and see what works for you.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
evreyones anatomy will be different.,even lengthof fingers,length of arm can be important.
I hold mine in the classical fashion,with bent thumb.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I've gone through my life on the principle that you do whatever is the generally accepted, tried and tested, norm ... unless you've got a bloody good reason *not* to. Like you're a genius or something. On that principle, *unless* you're a genius in any case and can therefore do what you like, use the standard hold. It works.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I hold the bow far away from the strings to avoid annoying people.
# Posted on September 9th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
"do whatever is the generally accepted, tried and tested, norm"
Whose norm? Do you think that all the norms of classical playing apply 100% to fiddling, or do you think that maybe the differences in technique just might mean that there can be different ways of doing things?
Do you think that all Baroque music should be played with French bows, since the French bow is the current norm? Or is the difference in bows and bowing technique appropriate to a completely different style of music?
I play with the standard classical hold, by the way, because I came from a classical background. But I see clear advantages to the odd holds that some fiddlers use. It doesn't take a genius to see that other bow holds can work.
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
[Settles into ringside seat, scanning the program to learn more about the two fighters' records....]
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
Lazyhound, my personal experience is that a baroque bow works very nicely indeed, so nicely that I don't use it becuase I get too used to it and I'd rather take my cheaper hatchet-head bow to a session that a more delicate pike's head bow ... if I ever go to another session, that is.
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by Tish
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
I use an orthodox (classical) sort of hold - it gives you lots of leverage
and power with any extra work. Good violinists do all kinds of complex
string changing and bowing patterns without any need to "choke up"
on the bow.
A couple of years ago the great Aussie fiddle Adrian Barker told us (a
class that is) how he used to have the Gavin-style choke hold. His
brother is a cellist and got him to rethink it. I don't know how he was
before, maybe no different, but Ado's got a huge, dominating sound and
he doesn't put any visible effort into it.
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by Hup
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
"lots of leverage"!!?! Aagh!!! If this is what I think it is, just don't. Use the weight of the bow and arm.
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Where do you hold the bow?
Used to hold pretty high up the bow, but after breaking my collarbone this summer, have gone down to a classical grip. Gets me better tone, but (so far) slightly less versatility (or so I imagine).
# Posted on September 10th 2008 by snorre