I’ve just started to seriously get into tenor banjo and my preferred right hand placement is a bit different from others I’ve looked at. I tend to come in directly over the tailpiece so that my wrist and forearm are directly over and parallel to the strings.
Is this at all common?
Are there any cons to this approach?
Are there any over-the-tailpiece arm rests out there?
I’m on a 17 fret right now but don’t want to rule out a 19 down the road.
The position you describe can work, but I’d suggest giving the standard position a good long try before ruling it out.
Have you been playing plectrum instruments very long? If your arm architecture is outside the “normal” specs, it can take a while to settle on your individual best posture. Try different approaches and pay close attention to the details. Avoid concentrating too much stress in a single point of the elbow-to-fingertip mechanism – especially the wrist.
I'm baffled as to why this works for you - by the time the banjo body is resting in your lap, this usually governs the angle the instrument sits at, hence the normal arm-rests that stretch in a quadrant from tailpiece round the ring.
Maybe your upper arm is longer than average ?
Or are you wearing the banjo with a very short strap ?
I don't think there are any rules, just to reassure you.
I've played mandolin for a while now and I hold that a little like Monroe, up high, so my arm is just north of the tailpiece.
I think I didn't describe it quite right after reading Guernesey Pete's comment. So my forearm rests on the tailpiece about 3 or 4 inches from my wrist and is perpendicular to the ground and the banjo is tilted up about 40 degrees so the arm isn't in line with the strings. Does that make more sense?
And, most of the time my legs are crossed so it lifts the banjo a little higher.
I'm confused about your description. You say that your forearm is perpendicular to the ground, and that your arm is parallel to the strings, and the the banjo is tilted up 40 degrees. So I am having a hard time picturing this.
I play with the banjo neck up at an angle like you suggest. The palm of my hand is lightly touching the bridge, but not putting any pressure on it. My forearm is on the arm rest. And my fingers are lightly brushing the head. The banjo is angled away from my body about 15 degrees or so, which helps keep the wrist more straight.
I don't see any problem with your arm coming over the tailpiece, as long as you're not dampening the sound with it. But it would certainly be uncomfortable, without some sort of arm rest.
Is there a reason that this position works better for you than the way that you've seen other people do it?
You are right Reverend, and in my ammended post I corrected that. That is perpendicular to the floor and at an angle to the strings.
I was doing it kind of like you suggest but I found that it really bothered the palm of my hand when it brushed against the bridge. And I would tend to put a little pressure there and it would change the intonation. Also although my fingers brush the finger rest on my mandolin I don't like the noise they make from hitting the head of the banjo and I find that my hand will be come tense when they are hitting the top.
Plus, I'm trying to play a little closer to the bridge than I could if my palm rested there.
I wouldn't say that I "rest" my hand on the bridge, but it does touch it. I have to smooth out the corners of sharp bridges, or they annoy my hand a bit. And it's a bit up toward the base of my thumb that might touch the bridge. I try to play about 2 inches from the bridge (although, I'll slide around a bit).
As far as the fingers on the head, I can't stand the "scraping" sound that happens, so I don't use frosted top heads. I mostly use either skin heads, which smooth out with time from the finger rubbing, or the Renaissance heads, which don't make much finger noise.
I've tried for years to get my fingers off of the head of the banjo, but I guess I must use them for either stability, or at least a reference to where my hand is, because my playing goes to hell when I try to curl them up out of the way...
Well, Reverend, remo make frosted heads with the frosting on the inside (sorry, sounds like a chocolate ad!). I,ve used one for years and there,s no problems with unsightly 'holes' in the frosting from the pinky or those semi-permanent 'porter stains' that come from pub splatters.
Oh, and just for reference, I have always held the pick between thumb and second finger with the first finger resting on the top. With practise you have more control this way.
Yeah, I have an inner-frosted head, specifically for that purpose. The frosting always makes it sound brighter, and doesn't sound particularly good on any of my banjos, but I had one on my Weymann for a while. But the smooth plastic always annoys me too, because your fingers stick to it a bit. That's another reason I like the Renaissance...
I can picture it, but it makes me like there's a lot *less* control
But to each his own... There are no rules here. Look at how John Carty holds his pick... that's weird too, but it has a lot to do with his sound. He can make a cheap banjo sound like his Paragon...
Hmm. My index finger gets in the way if I hold the pick against the middle finger. (May still try this a bit longer to see if it starts to feel more comfortable.)
Right hand placement can be a matter of what works best for you, but some placement is more efficient that others. The "standard" placement is like the one on the clip and it has been helpful for many players.
The most important thing about hand placement is that it promotes consistency. In other words you do the same thing each time the same way automatically. Assuming this allows you to have good tone, then you can vary your technique as you need to and have a rock solid place for your arm and hand to go when you finish.
He is very admant about having a consistent and reproduceable right hand. In fact virtually every master level banjo and mandolin player I have interviewed tells me the same thing: that the right hand is much more important than any other aspect of playing and that you have to be consistent and have good tone. If you compare these players right hands, you will see that they don't all do the same thing as each other, but they are always using their right hand in the same way.
On the mandolincafe there is a constant dialog over which is the best way to hold a pick or place your right hand. Mostly this is a matter of what you have been taught and to some extent your anatomy. If you get good tone from a weird position and you can play that way consistently, you are OK. The only reason that standard techniques are taught is that for most players they are more efficient and efficient styles are easy to learn and develop.
Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I’ve just started to seriously get into tenor banjo and my preferred right hand placement is a bit different from others I’ve looked at. I tend to come in directly over the tailpiece so that my wrist and forearm are directly over and parallel to the strings.
Is this at all common?
Are there any cons to this approach?
Are there any over-the-tailpiece arm rests out there?
I’m on a 17 fret right now but don’t want to rule out a 19 down the road.
Thanks,
Clayton
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by iampeterfonda
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Try the "The Hired Hand"
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Red Robin
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
The position you describe can work, but I’d suggest giving the standard position a good long try before ruling it out.
Have you been playing plectrum instruments very long? If your arm architecture is outside the “normal” specs, it can take a while to settle on your individual best posture. Try different approaches and pay close attention to the details. Avoid concentrating too much stress in a single point of the elbow-to-fingertip mechanism – especially the wrist.
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I'm baffled as to why this works for you - by the time the banjo body is resting in your lap, this usually governs the angle the instrument sits at, hence the normal arm-rests that stretch in a quadrant from tailpiece round the ring.
Maybe your upper arm is longer than average ?
Or are you wearing the banjo with a very short strap ?
I don't think there are any rules, just to reassure you.
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I've played mandolin for a while now and I hold that a little like Monroe, up high, so my arm is just north of the tailpiece.
I think I didn't describe it quite right after reading Guernesey Pete's comment. So my forearm rests on the tailpiece about 3 or 4 inches from my wrist and is perpendicular to the ground and the banjo is tilted up about 40 degrees so the arm isn't in line with the strings. Does that make more sense?
And, most of the time my legs are crossed so it lifts the banjo a little higher.
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by iampeterfonda
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I'm confused about your description. You say that your forearm is perpendicular to the ground, and that your arm is parallel to the strings, and the the banjo is tilted up 40 degrees. So I am having a hard time picturing this.
I play with the banjo neck up at an angle like you suggest. The palm of my hand is lightly touching the bridge, but not putting any pressure on it. My forearm is on the arm rest. And my fingers are lightly brushing the head. The banjo is angled away from my body about 15 degrees or so, which helps keep the wrist more straight.
I don't see any problem with your arm coming over the tailpiece, as long as you're not dampening the sound with it. But it would certainly be uncomfortable, without some sort of arm rest.
Is there a reason that this position works better for you than the way that you've seen other people do it?
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
You are right Reverend, and in my ammended post I corrected that. That is perpendicular to the floor and at an angle to the strings.
I was doing it kind of like you suggest but I found that it really bothered the palm of my hand when it brushed against the bridge. And I would tend to put a little pressure there and it would change the intonation. Also although my fingers brush the finger rest on my mandolin I don't like the noise they make from hitting the head of the banjo and I find that my hand will be come tense when they are hitting the top.
Plus, I'm trying to play a little closer to the bridge than I could if my palm rested there.
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by iampeterfonda
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I wouldn't say that I "rest" my hand on the bridge, but it does touch it. I have to smooth out the corners of sharp bridges, or they annoy my hand a bit. And it's a bit up toward the base of my thumb that might touch the bridge. I try to play about 2 inches from the bridge (although, I'll slide around a bit).
As far as the fingers on the head, I can't stand the "scraping" sound that happens, so I don't use frosted top heads. I mostly use either skin heads, which smooth out with time from the finger rubbing, or the Renaissance heads, which don't make much finger noise.
I've tried for years to get my fingers off of the head of the banjo, but I guess I must use them for either stability, or at least a reference to where my hand is, because my playing goes to hell when I try to curl them up out of the way...
# Posted on September 2nd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
http://www.banjosessions.com/aug05/righthand.html
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by banjoian
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Well, Reverend, remo make frosted heads with the frosting on the inside (sorry, sounds like a chocolate ad!). I,ve used one for years and there,s no problems with unsightly 'holes' in the frosting from the pinky or those semi-permanent 'porter stains' that come from pub splatters.
Oh, and just for reference, I have always held the pick between thumb and second finger with the first finger resting on the top. With practise you have more control this way.
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by banjoburger
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Yeah, I have an inner-frosted head, specifically for that purpose. The frosting always makes it sound brighter, and doesn't sound particularly good on any of my banjos, but I had one on my Weymann for a while. But the smooth plastic always annoys me too, because your fingers stick to it a bit. That's another reason I like the Renaissance...
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
"Oh, and just for reference, I have always held the pick between thumb and second finger with the first finger resting on the top."
I'm having a hard time picturing this. Is it just me?
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Top of the pick or top of the banjo?
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
I can picture it, but it makes me like there's a lot *less* control
But to each his own... There are no rules here. Look at how John Carty holds his pick... that's weird too, but it has a lot to do with his sound. He can make a cheap banjo sound like his Paragon...
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Hmm. My index finger gets in the way if I hold the pick against the middle finger. (May still try this a bit longer to see if it starts to feel more comfortable.)
FWIW, here's some nice close glimpses of one of the best flat picking right hands in the business (on mandolin): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URQ9zDi2uEs
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Will, thanks for that clip - incredible. I looked up a few Chris Thile clips on Youtube: great singer as well.
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by grego
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Right hand placement can be a matter of what works best for you, but some placement is more efficient that others. The "standard" placement is like the one on the clip and it has been helpful for many players.
The most important thing about hand placement is that it promotes consistency. In other words you do the same thing each time the same way automatically. Assuming this allows you to have good tone, then you can vary your technique as you need to and have a rock solid place for your arm and hand to go when you finish.
Here is Gerry O'Connors take: http://www.gerryoconnor.com/tech2.html
He is very admant about having a consistent and reproduceable right hand. In fact virtually every master level banjo and mandolin player I have interviewed tells me the same thing: that the right hand is much more important than any other aspect of playing and that you have to be consistent and have good tone. If you compare these players right hands, you will see that they don't all do the same thing as each other, but they are always using their right hand in the same way.
On the mandolincafe there is a constant dialog over which is the best way to hold a pick or place your right hand. Mostly this is a matter of what you have been taught and to some extent your anatomy. If you get good tone from a weird position and you can play that way consistently, you are OK. The only reason that standard techniques are taught is that for most players they are more efficient and efficient styles are easy to learn and develop.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on September 3rd 2008 by mikeyes
Re: Banjo Technique--right hand placement
Here I am trying not to touch the head at all, and Gerry O'Connors come saying that he rests his wrist on the head!
# Posted on September 4th 2008 by Ramiro