Can anyone here 'Expound upon' the 'Pro and Con' of the Goldtone Irish Tenor Banjo ?
Is it a decent entry level instrument,or am I wasting my money persuing this instrument? .
Well, I never post here, so I know my opinion carries no weight, but here goes... I got one a couple of months ago. It's a very good instrument. My only complaints were the head and tailpiece. Once I switched to a mylar head and changed the no-knot tailpiece to one that gave some downward pressure to the bridge, the banjo got a lot better tone. I don't find the lack of a resonator to be a problem. It has the perfect volume for my session as is.
If you're in Europe, you may find the following useful ..........
Gold Tone have several different banjos that they describe broadly as "Irish Tenor" - the common factor is the 20" short-scale neck.
The basic starter model is the "CC-IT" - 1/2" maple rim with a small brass tone ring, 18 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss-rodded neck - available as open-back or resonator model, with guitar-style tuners or planetary banjo tuners (4 versions in total)
an avowedly "entry-level" product but not badly made and fairly cheap in the UK (£200 - £300)
The next model up is the "IT250" - 5/8" maple rim with a "White Lady" style tone ring, 24 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss rodded neck, planetary banjo tuners - available as open back, fitted with "bolt-on" resonator or fitted with flange & resonator (3 versions in total - sometimes additional gold-plated/decorated versions are available too)
a better quality item, maybe a little quiet without a resonator - usually fitted with a Renaissance head and Clamshell or New Kreschner tailpiece
price point in the UK is aimed at entry-level/intermediate and it's competitively priced against the other offerings at this price point (£400 - £500)
The remaining model is the "SS250" - 3/4" maple rim with either a cast brass flathead tone ring (most models) or a cast brass archtop tone ring, 24 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss rodded neck, planetary banjo tuners - available as open-back, fitted with "bolt-on" resonator or fitted with a cast one piece flange & resonator (flathead tone rings) or fitted with a cast one piece flange & resonator (archtop tone ring)
a better quality item, designed for "session" playing - usually fitted with a standard frosted top Remo head or a 5-Star and a Clamshell/New Kerschner tailpiece
price point in the UK is aimed at entry-level/intemediate and the "Masterclone" models (SS250F & SS250AT) represent pretty good value for money in terms of sound & build quality (£400 - £600)
in the UK, there aren't that many other shortscale tenors with which to compare them.
Deering "Goodtime" have the same range of models as for their 5-strings available with a shortscale tenor neck - open back or resonator & flange models, no tone ring/steel tone ring versions - 4 models in total designated by "Special" and "2" (i.e. Goodtime 2 Special has both tone ring and resonator & flange). all Goodtime models have 16-bracket set-up, guitar-style tuners, plain necks without fingerboard or truss rod, 2-point neck fixing with single co-ordinator rod. price for the most basic model is competitive against the most basic Gold Tone but they go "out of synch" thereafter - the top model of Goodtime is about the same as the much more serious Gold Tone "IT" & "SS" models. if you sit and play both makes, the differences are fairly obvious .................. price range for Goodtimes is £200 - £500
the major Chinese producer has a strange truncated version of the standard-scale 23" 19-fret "Masterclone" - it comes with a 19-fret neck but a 21 1/2" scale length. neither one thing nor the other, really ..... standard version is available in the UK with a zinc alloy tone ring and is priced between the Gold Tone "CC" models and the more expensive "IT" & "SS" models. as most people would still have to move their hands to reach the high B, there would seem to be little merit in this model over the 23" scale version. if you want a pretty banjo without spending a lot of money, this would be your choice but better to opt for the longer one. upgraded with a more serious tone ring, the 23" version can be quite good ........ around £350
the same producer also markets an odd-looking but quite nice 20" scale open back (obviously deriving from the Gold Tone IT250). you have to careful because some importers bring it in with just a small brass tone ring whilst others fit the "White Lady" tone ring like the Gold Tone (much better sound) - and the asking price doesn't necessarily reflect this! not bad value for money as the sound is quite sensible even if the appearance is a bit odd .......... around £300
as with any new banjo, the experience for the buyer is governed as much by the set-up and service that you get as by the actual product itself. all the Gold Tone products, if properly set-up, will deliver well and be pretty reliable. spare parts are easy to get and not unreasonably priced. the Goodtime products are inherently less adjustable than the Gold Tones (no truss rods, single co-ordinator rods) so that you are more dependent on the factory set-up. spare parts availability isn;t bad though they tend to be bit dearer than Gold Tone parts. the 2 better models from the major Chinese producer (discounting the short-necked tenor versions of his standard entry-level products which are very cheap and about what you might expect), can also be reasonably good if well set-up but do require more work to get them there ... again, spares are reasonably easy to get and fairly economical ..........
it should be stressed that the above applies to Europe - the models available and the price point comparisons are completely different in the USA.
the question always arises - why buy a new banjo (which is bound to depreciate in value) when there are so many great old banjos out there ......? (which will hold their value ......... )
for beginners in Europe (again, this does not apply to the USA)
(1) a properly set-up new (or modern) banjo will be very reliable and will not need the sort of tinkering and adjustment that experienced banjo players seem to thrive on - a beginner can just get on with learning to play the thing - plenty of time later on (once you can play) to get into the "meccano" aspects of banjos .......... broadly speaking, modern banjos with truss-rodded necks & twin co-ordinator rods will play rather more easily than many vintage banjos - regard the depreciation between "new" and "secondhand" as the price you pay for an easy learning experience ..
(2) vintage banjos are much harder to find here in Europe and significantly more expensive than in the USA - that bargain Ebay purchase can get fairly expensive once you pay for the transatlantic shipping, import duty, customs clearance & VAT - and you are at the mercy of the £/$ exchange rate ............... many European owners of fine vintage banjos saw their instruments apparently depreciate by up to 40% with the decline in the value of the dollar in recent years ......... spares & repairs for vintage banjos will tend to be considerably dearer and can be harder to get than for modern items
if you are able to, best bet is to go to a dealer who has a wide selection of both new and vintage banjos and see for yourself what is best for you. if you can't do that, probably better to go for a brand new banjo (a known commodity that you can research a bit beforehand) and buy from a dealer who will allow you to return a purchase without question if it doesn't suit you
to answer the initial question, the Gold Tone products in Europe are competitively priced and, properly set-up, the middle grade "IT" & "SS" models will deliver pretty sensible performance for probably the least cost
I bought the Irish Tenor Resonator model a few months ago and other than a too shallow bridge slot for the G string it's just fine. The picking style it demands is not what I am used to on my octave mandolin, and that makes the changeover much slower than I had hoped, but I may stick with it. On the OM I don't anchor a finger, but I bush a finger, and that makes LOADS of unpleasant noise on the banjo top.
I am assuming you are looking at the IT-250 which is a very good starter banjo. Since you are in the US, you should be able to find a store that sells them and may even be able to find a second hand instrument. GT banjos are assembled in the US and the service and backup are outstanding.
As Teetotaller says, properly setup ( and I prefer a different tailpiece) they are very nice banjos. For someone who is not into the gearhead aspects of banjos, this is a good start. If you are concerned about buying a Chinese made instrument, go to the banjohangout.org and read the several threads on Gold Tone. I think you wil be surprised at the acceptance that they have amongst an admittedly biased (towards American made banjos) audience.
Mike Keyes -
I'm curious to know what tail-piece you would recommend for an IT-250, and what advantages it would give over the calm shell version that comes stock with the Gold Tone.
FWIW, I put an Ome tailpiece on my old Orpheum and it greatly improved both tone and intonation. So now it's an "Orpheome."
You can order the tailpieces directly from Ome. They're not cheap, but they won't break the bank, either. And they're extremely well designed and manufactured.
Thanks CPT. I have been adding bits and pieces to my Gold Tone for a while - Snuffy Smith Bridge, more expensive strings, etc. But at some point I have to accept that I am just adding fancy bits and pieces to a mid-range banjo and I will have maxed out it's possible sound quality.
Sort of like spending lots of money on rims, tires and a paint-job for a Plymouth Acclaim. Ya, it looks nice, but it still just a 4-door sedan. You can only "pimp" a Gold Tone IT-250 so much right?
I like the Waverly clone (http://elderly.com/accessories/items/P117.htm) I think they are a little more adjustable and seem to sound better on this instrument. The clamshell tailpiece that comes with it has the potential to buzz (as do all clamshells) and for some reason it does not sound as good as the Waverly in the banjos I have set up.
I use the "New Kerscher" design on most of the Gold Tone short-scale tenors. a nice heavy casting that's simple to fit and gives reasonable back pressure on the bridge. not as good as the Ome tailpiece for sure but the price is much more appropriate to an entry/intermediate banjo ...... there is only so much money you want to spend on a $600/£400 instrument
to answer millionyears_bc - yes, it's an opinion ... but based on the broad generality of the many thousands of banjos that have passed through my hands over the years. sure, you can find individual examples of any banjo that are awful - one of the most expensive Gibson banjos that ever came through here was, in my opinion, hideously overpriced junk - but if you handle enough banjos over a sufficient period of years, you get a feel for what's actually going on in a broad sense ..... and if you have a "dud" Gold Tone, take the matter up with the supplying dealer - the Gold Tone policy is to take warranty issues seriously ...........
I just got a Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo - really like it a lot. Had a few minor problem with the set up but it's staying in tune very well now. What are the string gauges that come on the Gold Tone IT-250 and what do you prefer when replacing them?
I got a US assembled Gold Tone short-scale (17-fret) IT250F just over a year ago, and I really like it. But it does appear different than the ones listed on Andy Perkins web site. It has the arched tone ring rather than the flat, and also has Heart-and-Flowers inlay and striped maple headstock veneer and resonator pot. Actually, it looks more like the SS250AT on Andy's site, so there clearly is a difference between models between Europe and North America. I use Newtone IT strings (0.012 - 0.038), and substitute a 0.041 string for the G. I think it's a great value for the price (which are probably a tad cheaper over here). I also have a Vega Style M and a new Deering Deluxe, both short-scale IT's and I like them all for different reasons.
Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Can anyone here 'Expound upon' the 'Pro and Con' of the Goldtone Irish Tenor Banjo ?
Is it a decent entry level instrument,or am I wasting my money persuing this instrument? .
Gura mile maith !!!
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by firnatine
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Well, I never post here, so I know my opinion carries no weight, but here goes... I got one a couple of months ago. It's a very good instrument. My only complaints were the head and tailpiece. Once I switched to a mylar head and changed the no-knot tailpiece to one that gave some downward pressure to the bridge, the banjo got a lot better tone. I don't find the lack of a resonator to be a problem. It has the perfect volume for my session as is.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Thomaston
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
If you're in Europe, you may find the following useful ..........
Gold Tone have several different banjos that they describe broadly as "Irish Tenor" - the common factor is the 20" short-scale neck.
The basic starter model is the "CC-IT" - 1/2" maple rim with a small brass tone ring, 18 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss-rodded neck - available as open-back or resonator model, with guitar-style tuners or planetary banjo tuners (4 versions in total)
an avowedly "entry-level" product but not badly made and fairly cheap in the UK (£200 - £300)
The next model up is the "IT250" - 5/8" maple rim with a "White Lady" style tone ring, 24 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss rodded neck, planetary banjo tuners - available as open back, fitted with "bolt-on" resonator or fitted with flange & resonator (3 versions in total - sometimes additional gold-plated/decorated versions are available too)
a better quality item, maybe a little quiet without a resonator - usually fitted with a Renaissance head and Clamshell or New Kreschner tailpiece
price point in the UK is aimed at entry-level/intermediate and it's competitively priced against the other offerings at this price point (£400 - £500)
The remaining model is the "SS250" - 3/4" maple rim with either a cast brass flathead tone ring (most models) or a cast brass archtop tone ring, 24 bracket set-up, twin co-ordinator rods, truss rodded neck, planetary banjo tuners - available as open-back, fitted with "bolt-on" resonator or fitted with a cast one piece flange & resonator (flathead tone rings) or fitted with a cast one piece flange & resonator (archtop tone ring)
a better quality item, designed for "session" playing - usually fitted with a standard frosted top Remo head or a 5-Star and a Clamshell/New Kerschner tailpiece
price point in the UK is aimed at entry-level/intemediate and the "Masterclone" models (SS250F & SS250AT) represent pretty good value for money in terms of sound & build quality (£400 - £600)
in the UK, there aren't that many other shortscale tenors with which to compare them.
Deering "Goodtime" have the same range of models as for their 5-strings available with a shortscale tenor neck - open back or resonator & flange models, no tone ring/steel tone ring versions - 4 models in total designated by "Special" and "2" (i.e. Goodtime 2 Special has both tone ring and resonator & flange). all Goodtime models have 16-bracket set-up, guitar-style tuners, plain necks without fingerboard or truss rod, 2-point neck fixing with single co-ordinator rod. price for the most basic model is competitive against the most basic Gold Tone but they go "out of synch" thereafter - the top model of Goodtime is about the same as the much more serious Gold Tone "IT" & "SS" models. if you sit and play both makes, the differences are fairly obvious .................. price range for Goodtimes is £200 - £500
the major Chinese producer has a strange truncated version of the standard-scale 23" 19-fret "Masterclone" - it comes with a 19-fret neck but a 21 1/2" scale length. neither one thing nor the other, really ..... standard version is available in the UK with a zinc alloy tone ring and is priced between the Gold Tone "CC" models and the more expensive "IT" & "SS" models. as most people would still have to move their hands to reach the high B, there would seem to be little merit in this model over the 23" scale version. if you want a pretty banjo without spending a lot of money, this would be your choice but better to opt for the longer one. upgraded with a more serious tone ring, the 23" version can be quite good ........ around £350
the same producer also markets an odd-looking but quite nice 20" scale open back (obviously deriving from the Gold Tone IT250). you have to careful because some importers bring it in with just a small brass tone ring whilst others fit the "White Lady" tone ring like the Gold Tone (much better sound) - and the asking price doesn't necessarily reflect this! not bad value for money as the sound is quite sensible even if the appearance is a bit odd .......... around £300
as with any new banjo, the experience for the buyer is governed as much by the set-up and service that you get as by the actual product itself. all the Gold Tone products, if properly set-up, will deliver well and be pretty reliable. spare parts are easy to get and not unreasonably priced. the Goodtime products are inherently less adjustable than the Gold Tones (no truss rods, single co-ordinator rods) so that you are more dependent on the factory set-up. spare parts availability isn;t bad though they tend to be bit dearer than Gold Tone parts. the 2 better models from the major Chinese producer (discounting the short-necked tenor versions of his standard entry-level products which are very cheap and about what you might expect), can also be reasonably good if well set-up but do require more work to get them there ... again, spares are reasonably easy to get and fairly economical ..........
it should be stressed that the above applies to Europe - the models available and the price point comparisons are completely different in the USA.
the question always arises - why buy a new banjo (which is bound to depreciate in value) when there are so many great old banjos out there ......? (which will hold their value ......... )
for beginners in Europe (again, this does not apply to the USA)
(1) a properly set-up new (or modern) banjo will be very reliable and will not need the sort of tinkering and adjustment that experienced banjo players seem to thrive on - a beginner can just get on with learning to play the thing - plenty of time later on (once you can play) to get into the "meccano" aspects of banjos .......... broadly speaking, modern banjos with truss-rodded necks & twin co-ordinator rods will play rather more easily than many vintage banjos - regard the depreciation between "new" and "secondhand" as the price you pay for an easy learning experience ..
(2) vintage banjos are much harder to find here in Europe and significantly more expensive than in the USA - that bargain Ebay purchase can get fairly expensive once you pay for the transatlantic shipping, import duty, customs clearance & VAT - and you are at the mercy of the £/$ exchange rate ............... many European owners of fine vintage banjos saw their instruments apparently depreciate by up to 40% with the decline in the value of the dollar in recent years ......... spares & repairs for vintage banjos will tend to be considerably dearer and can be harder to get than for modern items
if you are able to, best bet is to go to a dealer who has a wide selection of both new and vintage banjos and see for yourself what is best for you. if you can't do that, probably better to go for a brand new banjo (a known commodity that you can research a bit beforehand) and buy from a dealer who will allow you to return a purchase without question if it doesn't suit you
to answer the initial question, the Gold Tone products in Europe are competitively priced and, properly set-up, the middle grade "IT" & "SS" models will deliver pretty sensible performance for probably the least cost
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by teetotaller
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
that's one opinion.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I bought the Irish Tenor Resonator model a few months ago and other than a too shallow bridge slot for the G string it's just fine. The picking style it demands is not what I am used to on my octave mandolin, and that makes the changeover much slower than I had hoped, but I may stick with it. On the OM I don't anchor a finger, but I bush a finger, and that makes LOADS of unpleasant noise on the banjo top.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by justjim
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I am assuming you are looking at the IT-250 which is a very good starter banjo. Since you are in the US, you should be able to find a store that sells them and may even be able to find a second hand instrument. GT banjos are assembled in the US and the service and backup are outstanding.
As Teetotaller says, properly setup ( and I prefer a different tailpiece) they are very nice banjos. For someone who is not into the gearhead aspects of banjos, this is a good start. If you are concerned about buying a Chinese made instrument, go to the banjohangout.org and read the several threads on Gold Tone. I think you wil be surprised at the acceptance that they have amongst an admittedly biased (towards American made banjos) audience.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by mikeyes
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Mike Keyes -
I'm curious to know what tail-piece you would recommend for an IT-250, and what advantages it would give over the calm shell version that comes stock with the Gold Tone.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
FWIW, I put an Ome tailpiece on my old Orpheum and it greatly improved both tone and intonation. So now it's an "Orpheome."
You can order the tailpieces directly from Ome. They're not cheap, but they won't break the bank, either. And they're extremely well designed and manufactured.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Thanks CPT. I have been adding bits and pieces to my Gold Tone for a while - Snuffy Smith Bridge, more expensive strings, etc. But at some point I have to accept that I am just adding fancy bits and pieces to a mid-range banjo and I will have maxed out it's possible sound quality.
Sort of like spending lots of money on rims, tires and a paint-job for a Plymouth Acclaim. Ya, it looks nice, but it still just a 4-door sedan. You can only "pimp" a Gold Tone IT-250 so much right?
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I was happy with my Gold Tone IT-250, until I played the short-scale Orpheum that I eventually bought from Reverend. A crisper, more focused tone.
And I've since bought a Gold Tone Orange Blossom 5 string--a great banjo for the money. While I save up for an Ome.... (sigh)
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
When you buy your Ome, please put me on the list of buyers for your Orpheum!
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
Sorry, but the Ome will be a 5 string (for bluegrass). This short-scale Orpheum" suits me to a T for flatpicking Irish.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Will Harmon
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I like the Waverly clone (http://elderly.com/accessories/items/P117.htm) I think they are a little more adjustable and seem to sound better on this instrument. The clamshell tailpiece that comes with it has the potential to buzz (as do all clamshells) and for some reason it does not sound as good as the Waverly in the banjos I have set up.
Mike Keyes
http://www.banjosessions.com
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by mikeyes
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I use the "New Kerscher" design on most of the Gold Tone short-scale tenors. a nice heavy casting that's simple to fit and gives reasonable back pressure on the bridge. not as good as the Ome tailpiece for sure but the price is much more appropriate to an entry/intermediate banjo ...... there is only so much money you want to spend on a $600/£400 instrument
to answer millionyears_bc - yes, it's an opinion ... but based on the broad generality of the many thousands of banjos that have passed through my hands over the years. sure, you can find individual examples of any banjo that are awful - one of the most expensive Gibson banjos that ever came through here was, in my opinion, hideously overpriced junk - but if you handle enough banjos over a sufficient period of years, you get a feel for what's actually going on in a broad sense ..... and if you have a "dud" Gold Tone, take the matter up with the supplying dealer - the Gold Tone policy is to take warranty issues seriously ...........
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by teetotaller
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I just got a Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo - really like it a lot. Had a few minor problem with the set up but it's staying in tune very well now. What are the string gauges that come on the Gold Tone IT-250 and what do you prefer when replacing them?
# Posted on December 28th 2008 by Jane M.
Re: Gold Tone Irish Tenor Banjo
I got a US assembled Gold Tone short-scale (17-fret) IT250F just over a year ago, and I really like it. But it does appear different than the ones listed on Andy Perkins web site. It has the arched tone ring rather than the flat, and also has Heart-and-Flowers inlay and striped maple headstock veneer and resonator pot. Actually, it looks more like the SS250AT on Andy's site, so there clearly is a difference between models between Europe and North America. I use Newtone IT strings (0.012 - 0.038), and substitute a 0.041 string for the G. I think it's a great value for the price (which are probably a tad cheaper over here). I also have a Vega Style M and a new Deering Deluxe, both short-scale IT's and I like them all for different reasons.
# Posted on January 5th 2009 by bbarton