If you had a choice either by wish from a genie or pact with Ol' Nick, or simply by hard graft and dedication, would you rather be able to play one instrument really well or many instruments reasonably, passably, un-annoyingly well?
Discuss.
;)
I have a tendency to try and play anything - even tried piano once - but decided to concentrate on guitar since it's what I'm best at.
Then that changed to fretted stringed instruments ;o)
Still, I have an interesting collection of different instruments I can't really play - from tin whistle and pan pipes to jews harp!
Seriously, if I were really, really good on fiddle, I probably wouldn't play other instruments. But wouldn't it be fun to be a triple threat like John Carty?!
Then again, aren't instrumentalists just failed singers? If I could sing--at all--I wonder if I'd bother with an instrument at all.....
On the other hand, I really enjoy the sound and feel of different instruments. I wish I could play flute better cuz I love the buzz of the air column under my fingers and the reedy tone of a wooden flute. And I wish I could play mandolin like Chris Thile.
I wanna learn to play 'em all. But somehow I think managing to own them all would be the real trick.
Of course playing one, really, really well, would be nice.
The devil would probably laugh at me if I tried to sell him my soul and/or otherwise make a pact with him. He would tell me that my soul isn't valuable enough to him to make a deal.
Aaaaaargh, that's so bloody annoys me. Sp blody typical. "I like the option of playing a rhythm instrument if i don't know the tune.". I'm afraid you wouldn't last long where I play.
You can play several instruments well. It requires either that you are born rich or that you embrace financial mediocrity. Or that you are born as Frankie Gavin. It also means that you have to concentrate on playing rather than on looking for gigs. If you're gig-hunting or being a dilettante then you may never play just one instrument passably well.
Well, I'd go for playing many really well! In reality, I'll probably have to settle for playing several reasonably well- but have a lot of fun doing it! I play fiddle- and am learning the pipes and the whistle. Want to add the flute and maybe the cello down the road- that will probably do it(I think )
I've always struggled with this question. For decades, I've picked up an instrument, get to an intermediate level and then move on to the next instrument. Never mastering any. My son became a music major in college and we had this discussion.
His thought was if you played one instrument very well, that was like 100% effective. If you could play 4 instruments at 50%, then that's 200%. I realize you could tear this apart and it really depends on what your goals are and why you're playing.
Since then, I've dedicated myself to the fiddle and spend most of my time with it. I still tinker with the box, guitar, whistle and banjo though. It's all just too much fun. I'd like to find a magic lamp that had identical twin genies.....then I could get three wishes from each and I'd be set.
"Without the instruments, there would be no music."
Not so. Irish music wouldn't have survived in many areas during times of oppression if it hadn't been for the lilting,
OK, I'll tear it apart. 200% effective is a meaningless term. Effectiveness is a measure of how much of a desired effect is achieved. It's between nothing and all, 0 and 1, 0% and 100%. If you play four instruments at 50% effectiveness, you still only achieve half of your goal for whatever period of time you are playing each one. A weighted average would be more appropriate, multiplying 50% by the percentage of time spent on each instrument, and then adding. The result would be 50%.
Jackie Daly has an anecdote about a session involving himself, Andy Irvine (I think), and (among others) a man who played a boat-load of instruments badly. Andy (if that's who it was) described this man as "multi-talentless".
I've been playing one instrument for almost fifty years, and I'm still nowhere near playing as well as I'd like, even with the devil's generous assistance.
I play several other instruments, which I accept I'll never master, but the main benefit is that trying to learn them gives deeper insights into music as a whole, and greater appreciation of other people's skill.
lilt
The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English | Date: 2008
lilt / lilt/
• n. a characteristic rising and falling of the voice when speaking; a pleasant gentle accent: he spoke with a faint but recognizable Irish lilt.
∎ a pleasant, gently swinging rhythm in a song or tune: the lilt of the Hawaiian music.
• v. [intr.] [often as adj.] (lilting) speak, sing, or sound with a lilt: a lilting Welsh accent.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance here. But "lilting" is singing? If that's true it's interesting that If heard several times that some sessions prefer not to have singers join them.
??? Seams to me some sean nos singing would be a great way to add to a session. ???
In addition to all the instruments I'd like to play, I'd like to be able to sing too.
Does it count as different instruments if you play whistle and flute? I would like to be really good on flute, but the whistle is just so nice and portable.
I think I would prefer to play many instruments reasonably well. I think that would give me more opportunities to play, and different music to play. Sometimes sitting up straight or standing to play the flute is tiring and I feel like slouching back on the couch to pick on my mandolin instead for a while.
It's ok tho... I can understand why he doesn't like backers... they can either make or break a session. Unfortunately it's mostly the latter. There seems a tendancy for anyone that plays guitar to think they can play behind tunes (or on top of them as it would seem)
I attend two sessions... one i play mostly Octave Mandolin (tunes and backing), the other i play fiddle. llig's more than welcome to come play tunes and make a descision for himself.
So, in came a Basque piper to the pub the other day (Edinburgh festival and all that) with his Basque pipes - strange beasts in C. He was bloody marvellous. I'm not familiar with the music and I was thinking he was fluffing some of the phrasing. But then his pal joined in on this tambouring kind of thing (a round 10" frame drum with cymbals round the side) and her unison with the tunes was remarkable. Every nuance was followed, they really were playing together. The bits I thought he might be fluffing were part of the tune, that's how it went. She played it by bouncing the drum on the tips of her fingers, it was beautiful
Then some ignorant fecker with a fecking bodhran joined in and feckin ruined it. I could have cried.
I've recently returned from eight sessions (and five workshops) in Kilcar, Co Donegal, and not a bodhran to be seen or heard anywhere. Apart from a guitar at one session and a box at another (both respectful of the tradition) it was all fiddles all the way. Heaven!
Well I started with classical piano but was a nervous player as a child, moved on to singing/songwriting on the guitar, but burned out, took up the fiddle at age 36 and bought a mandolin to support that. I have ended up being better at mandolin that any of the others, but still not a whizz at anything in particular. I'm pretty sure there is a "perfect" instrument for everyone (a bit like the perfect partner), but maybe we don't always find it. In short I'd say find just one your heart is in and stick to that.
“Multi-talentless.” I love that. I Think I’ll have it embroidered on my shirt.
When I’m frustrated with my fiddling, I start wishing I’d never wasted time on any other instrument. But then, likewise with the guitar. That’s why I keep Ol’ Scratch on speed dial. Can’t seem to close a deal, though.
When I was young and even more foolish, I spent several years as a part-time or full-time musician and I took advantage of that situation to develop some useful skill on several (way too many) instruments. I had a lot of fun with it and I really don’t regret it, but there were trade-offs involved.
Several of my friends have also dabbled in multi-instrumentalism and some of us have noticed that there can be interference between instruments. In particular, two of us who now stick mainly to guitar and fiddle have noticed that the tightly focused muscle development that’s needed for flat-pick guitar playing can interfere with the smoothness of the fiddle bow stroke. Doesn’t seem to bother John Carty, but he’s still young.
Mark O’Connor, the ultimate string wizard, has decided to drop the guitar and mandolin (I think he dropped the banjo years ago) and concentrate on fiddle.
"there can be interference between instruments"
Good point, Bob. I've noticed over the years that are some fiddle players around who have come to the fiddle from the guitar/mandolin/banjo (on which they're often competent and experience) and then have very real and on-going problems with bowing - to say nothing of finger-bow coordination and sometimes intonation (which can happen when going from fretted to non-fretted).
The only solution to this general problem, as I see it, is for the player not to persevere with struggling through sessions and self-teaching but to have a series of lessons from a professional violin teacher to sort out the basic technique once and for all.
not sure whether it's "instrument interference" or simply that fiddle is a difficult instrument to take up when you're old. I was told the best way to improve my fiddle playing is to take it up when i was 7 years old.
Question... Would you Rather...?
Question... Would you Rather...?
If you had a choice either by wish from a genie or pact with Ol' Nick, or simply by hard graft and dedication, would you rather be able to play one instrument really well or many instruments reasonably, passably, un-annoyingly well?
Discuss.
;)
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by greybeardd
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I'd settle for a couple pretty damn well.
I have a tendency to try and play anything - even tried piano once - but decided to concentrate on guitar since it's what I'm best at.
Then that changed to fretted stringed instruments ;o)
Still, I have an interesting collection of different instruments I can't really play - from tin whistle and pan pipes to jews harp!
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by Njal
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
All of the above.
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
You mean, like you already do, Will?
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by Reverend
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I'd go for one.
# Posted on August 23rd 2008 by chuneboi slim
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Don't genies give 3 wishes? I'd wish to be brilliant at banjo, bouzouki and guitar!
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by camwebby
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
LOL, in my dreams, Rev.
Seriously, if I were really, really good on fiddle, I probably wouldn't play other instruments. But wouldn't it be fun to be a triple threat like John Carty?!
Then again, aren't instrumentalists just failed singers? If I could sing--at all--I wonder if I'd bother with an instrument at all.....
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
On the other hand, I really enjoy the sound and feel of different instruments. I wish I could play flute better cuz I love the buzz of the air column under my fingers and the reedy tone of a wooden flute. And I wish I could play mandolin like Chris Thile.
Oh well.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I wanna learn to play 'em all. But somehow I think managing to own them all would be the real trick.
Of course playing one, really, really well, would be nice.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
The instruments are irrelevant, it's the music.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Without the instruments, there would be no music.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
The devil would probably laugh at me if I tried to sell him my soul and/or otherwise make a pact with him. He would tell me that my soul isn't valuable enough to him to make a deal.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I'd sell my soul to play one instrument reasonably, passably, un-annoyingly well.
Although there is a lot to be said for annoying the hell out of people by doing something you love.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by awildman
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I like the option of playing a rhythm instrument if i don't know the tune. But wish i was better at playing the fiddle.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by davydd
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Aaaaaargh, that's so bloody annoys me. Sp blody typical. "I like the option of playing a rhythm instrument if i don't know the tune.". I'm afraid you wouldn't last long where I play.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by llig leahcim
You can play several...
You can play several instruments well. It requires either that you are born rich or that you embrace financial mediocrity. Or that you are born as Frankie Gavin. It also means that you have to concentrate on playing rather than on looking for gigs. If you're gig-hunting or being a dilettante then you may never play just one instrument passably well.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by cocus
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
llig... that's ok... i'm doin fine where i am.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by davydd
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I wish these discussions were beter.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by t4kne
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Well, I'd go for playing many really well! In reality, I'll probably have to settle for playing several reasonably well- but have a lot of fun doing it! I play fiddle- and am learning the pipes and the whistle. Want to add the flute and maybe the cello down the road- that will probably do it(I think
)
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by fiddlinfarmer
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I've always struggled with this question. For decades, I've picked up an instrument, get to an intermediate level and then move on to the next instrument. Never mastering any. My son became a music major in college and we had this discussion.
His thought was if you played one instrument very well, that was like 100% effective. If you could play 4 instruments at 50%, then that's 200%. I realize you could tear this apart and it really depends on what your goals are and why you're playing.
Since then, I've dedicated myself to the fiddle and spend most of my time with it. I still tinker with the box, guitar, whistle and banjo though. It's all just too much fun. I'd like to find a magic lamp that had identical twin genies.....then I could get three wishes from each and I'd be set.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by ElaineP
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
"Without the instruments, there would be no music."
Not so. Irish music wouldn't have survived in many areas during times of oppression if it hadn't been for the lilting,
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
OK, I'll tear it apart. 200% effective is a meaningless term. Effectiveness is a measure of how much of a desired effect is achieved. It's between nothing and all, 0 and 1, 0% and 100%. If you play four instruments at 50% effectiveness, you still only achieve half of your goal for whatever period of time you are playing each one. A weighted average would be more appropriate, multiplying 50% by the percentage of time spent on each instrument, and then adding. The result would be 50%.
Jackie Daly has an anecdote about a session involving himself, Andy Irvine (I think), and (among others) a man who played a boat-load of instruments badly. Andy (if that's who it was) described this man as "multi-talentless".
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I've been playing one instrument for almost fifty years, and I'm still nowhere near playing as well as I'd like, even with the devil's generous assistance.
I play several other instruments, which I accept I'll never master, but the main benefit is that trying to learn them gives deeper insights into music as a whole, and greater appreciation of other people's skill.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
lilt
The Oxford Pocket Dictionary of Current English | Date: 2008
lilt / lilt/
• n. a characteristic rising and falling of the voice when speaking; a pleasant gentle accent: he spoke with a faint but recognizable Irish lilt.
∎ a pleasant, gently swinging rhythm in a song or tune: the lilt of the Hawaiian music.
• v. [intr.] [often as adj.] (lilting) speak, sing, or sound with a lilt: a lilting Welsh accent.
You'll have to forgive my ignorance here. But "lilting" is singing? If that's true it's interesting that If heard several times that some sessions prefer not to have singers join them.
??? Seams to me some sean nos singing would be a great way to add to a session. ???
In addition to all the instruments I'd like to play, I'd like to be able to sing too.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
damn... "that I've heard" NOT "that if heard"
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Fishmonger, permit me to extend your education
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX18CMR1I9Y
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
More lilting, in the second half of the video: http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_249_2_a_selection_of_reels_played_by_bobby_gardiner_and_marcu/
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by awildman
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Does it count as different instruments if you play whistle and flute? I would like to be really good on flute, but the whistle is just so nice and portable.
I think I would prefer to play many instruments reasonably well. I think that would give me more opportunities to play, and different music to play. Sometimes sitting up straight or standing to play the flute is tiring and I feel like slouching back on the couch to pick on my mandolin instead for a while.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by sbhikes
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Nice! Thanks for the education. Learn something new every day.
# Posted on August 24th 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
One insturment really well of course, otherwise what is the point. Its pointless being ok at loads of things.
Hey llig - Davyyd is a really really lovely backer, I know you dong like backing but he is very good.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by bb
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Thanks BB...
It's ok tho... I can understand why he doesn't like backers... they can either make or break a session. Unfortunately it's mostly the latter. There seems a tendancy for anyone that plays guitar to think they can play behind tunes (or on top of them as it would seem)
I attend two sessions... one i play mostly Octave Mandolin (tunes and backing), the other i play fiddle. llig's more than welcome to come play tunes and make a descision for himself.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by davydd
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I never said i didn't like a good strummer, It's that I hate people thinking they can contribute anything if they don't know the tunes.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
A vaild point llig.
It seems you mistook me saying "Don't know the tune" to mean "Never heard it before"
I know a LOT of tunes i don't know how to play or pick out yet.
If i've never heard a tune before... i'll usually listen and learn.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by davydd
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Good on you Davy
So, in came a Basque piper to the pub the other day (Edinburgh festival and all that) with his Basque pipes - strange beasts in C. He was bloody marvellous. I'm not familiar with the music and I was thinking he was fluffing some of the phrasing. But then his pal joined in on this tambouring kind of thing (a round 10" frame drum with cymbals round the side) and her unison with the tunes was remarkable. Every nuance was followed, they really were playing together. The bits I thought he might be fluffing were part of the tune, that's how it went. She played it by bouncing the drum on the tips of her fingers, it was beautiful
Then some ignorant fecker with a fecking bodhran joined in and feckin ruined it. I could have cried.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
I've recently returned from eight sessions (and five workshops) in Kilcar, Co Donegal, and not a bodhran to be seen or heard anywhere. Apart from a guitar at one session and a box at another (both respectful of the tradition) it was all fiddles all the way. Heaven!
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
Well I started with classical piano but was a nervous player as a child, moved on to singing/songwriting on the guitar, but burned out, took up the fiddle at age 36 and bought a mandolin to support that. I have ended up being better at mandolin that any of the others, but still not a whizz at anything in particular. I'm pretty sure there is a "perfect" instrument for everyone (a bit like the perfect partner), but maybe we don't always find it. In short I'd say find just one your heart is in and stick to that.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by Mando Deb
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
“Multi-talentless.” I love that. I Think I’ll have it embroidered on my shirt.
When I’m frustrated with my fiddling, I start wishing I’d never wasted time on any other instrument. But then, likewise with the guitar. That’s why I keep Ol’ Scratch on speed dial. Can’t seem to close a deal, though.
When I was young and even more foolish, I spent several years as a part-time or full-time musician and I took advantage of that situation to develop some useful skill on several (way too many) instruments. I had a lot of fun with it and I really don’t regret it, but there were trade-offs involved.
Several of my friends have also dabbled in multi-instrumentalism and some of us have noticed that there can be interference between instruments. In particular, two of us who now stick mainly to guitar and fiddle have noticed that the tightly focused muscle development that’s needed for flat-pick guitar playing can interfere with the smoothness of the fiddle bow stroke. Doesn’t seem to bother John Carty, but he’s still young.
Mark O’Connor, the ultimate string wizard, has decided to drop the guitar and mandolin (I think he dropped the banjo years ago) and concentrate on fiddle.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
wolfbird and awildman, thank you both for the mouth music clips. Lovely stuff! They brightened my day.
# Posted on August 25th 2008 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
One instrument really, really well without a doubt (flute for me). I'd rather achieve excellence on one than mediocrity on many.
# Posted on August 26th 2008 by InSearchofCraic
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
"there can be interference between instruments"
Good point, Bob. I've noticed over the years that are some fiddle players around who have come to the fiddle from the guitar/mandolin/banjo (on which they're often competent and experience) and then have very real and on-going problems with bowing - to say nothing of finger-bow coordination and sometimes intonation (which can happen when going from fretted to non-fretted).
The only solution to this general problem, as I see it, is for the player not to persevere with struggling through sessions and self-teaching but to have a series of lessons from a professional violin teacher to sort out the basic technique once and for all.
# Posted on August 26th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Question... Would you Rather...?
not sure whether it's "instrument interference" or simply that fiddle is a difficult instrument to take up when you're old. I was told the best way to improve my fiddle playing is to take it up when i was 7 years old.
# Posted on August 28th 2008 by greybeardd