Hi,
I have been a guitar player mainly for many years and have attended a few sessions playing old favourite songs such as Dirty Old Town, Wild Rover, Fields of Athenry, Spancill Hill, etc. plus some less, er, predictable ones such as Ride On (Christy Moore) and others.
Playing at these is relatively easy for me since if I know the song I can play along, or I can learn it on the spot (usually they're simple enough to jam along to).
Anyway, a month ago I bought a mandolin and have been learning some reels, polkas, etc.
At first I didn't know much about these tunes (still don't) i.e. which ones are most likely to be played, their names, etc.
Now I can play 7 tunes reasonably well and am learning a new one every few days.
But I am still intimidated about attending a tune session since I don't know how they work.
I was at one at the weekend - mostly fiddle players.
I didn't see anyone announce the name of the tune - or the set, a few tunes were strung together and everyone changed at the same time.
How do I know what to play and when to change?
Perhaps I just missed the instructions.
Many thanks.
Ha ha, we've all been there Njal,
Dont worry about it, there are no rules, no guidelines that anyone can really give you as each session has its own personality.
The only thing you can do is sit in. If they play a tune you know then play along if you can. If not.. LISTEN. its the only way to get comfortable in a session.
I still spend up to 50% of the time at a session listening, learning how the tunes are played in that session and what sets of tunes are played together.
I also record the sessions so I can play along with them at home without the risk of ruining it for everyone else.
Dont worry about how many tunes you know.. just dont play if you dont know them.
Most people are very supportive of a beginner. 9 times out of 10 you wil be asked to play a tune anyway.
Also dont worry about the names of tunes. only one person at our session bothers with the tune names, everyone else just asks "hey do you know that tune diddle idle deery aye.." etc. and then if they do they usually belt into it.
Basically just go with the flow and play if you can. When your not playing your learning just as much.
Sometimes someone will string the tunes they are going to play in advance of starting and let others know. More often than not though folk will just start playing and others will pick the tune up when they recognise it. The lead player might call out a key for the benefit of an accompanist (and they might even be right!!). The more you practice and play the quicker you will recognise the tunes they are playing.
If everyone just changes at once without a hair's breath then they might just be playing a regularly played set of tunes. If the folks in the session have been playing together for a long time then they will start to know what tune the lead is going to play next.
There's a number of ways of stringing tunes together:
a) standard sets, ie, tunes that are traditionally played together globally. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
b) standard sets to the session, ie, tunes that are traditionally played together at that session. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
c) an individual's standard sets, ie, tunes that a particular player usually plays together. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
d) tune sets put together on the hoof. ie, improvised on the spur of the moment. (though if you are listening to a set being constructed live in this manner, don't assume that the next tune won't be one that is normally paired with it)
Njal
Take good note of the points above - they contain good advice. Just a couple of other snippets-
- it's fairly common to play each tune 3 times through before moving to the next tune
- you may hear someone call 'hup' to indicate a change to the next tune (at least it can save you the embarassment of starting to play the same tune again, when the rest of the session has started up a new tune!)
- 3 times is common, but someone may call 'one more' to indicate once more through
- if the tune is a big one with 3 or 4 parts, twice through may be more common
-the 'hup' may be replaced by a mere glance between certain players - it's good to watch as well as listen in sessions!
None of the above is universal, or even consistent in the same session from week to week!
Also, it's common to play single reels (where the a and b parts are not repeated after each other) 4 or 5 times
And you will often get tunes in different keys from where you learned them. And tunes with extra parts or fewer parts or just different parts. Certainly different versions. So it's no good hearing a tune you like in a session, catching its name, and looking it up here to learn it. I'm not saying you'll learn it wrong, but you will almost certainly learn it wrong for that particular session.
Also, which tunes to learn can be fraught. It's fair enough just learning tune you like, but if you want to play in sessions, you are best learning tunes you and the other session players like also. Watch out for peoples' expressions when tunes start up. Do they they lighten up and are they eager to play? Or do they roll their eyes and maybe play or go to the bar?
I'd like to add my two cents, since I'm relatively new to session playing; you will naturally want to learn tunes to be played in your session, so I'd just ask for names of a few that will be played regularly, then tape them for home listening.
Your best friends will be your ears and your tape recorder.
Njal - lots of good advice here, as noted above.
One of the local leaders lifts his foot when a change is coming (in addition to the eye contact, which I've noticed most good musicians in whatever genre seem to do anyway).
It took me a long time (and a few humiliating moments) to understand that it's OK to sit in the circle and NOT play, if you don't know the tune. Your mates will appreciate you for that.
Stick with it, you're in for a heckuva ride. Have Fun!
-llig - interesting comment about the single reels. Also, what about set dances? They always seem to throw me...just experience, I guess.
A set dance is not a fixed form like a reel or jig - the number of bars in each part varies from one tune to the next - so they vary in length, which might have some bearing on how many times they are played. Also, being idiosyncratic in form, they don't necessarily fit together with other tunes easily, so they are quite often played singly rather than in sets.
It is worth bearing in mind that the number of times tunes are played within a set, whether or not certain parts are repeated within a tune, preferred speeds, particular versions of tunes etc. will vary from one place or group of musicians to another. Rules-of-thumb will take you so far, but what is most important as a visitor to a session is to always have your ears (and eyes) open to how things are done there. The more sessions you go to, the more easily you will pick up on the nuances.
BTW Njal, although you have told us a fair bit about yourself here it would be nice if you added some of that info to your profile. I am guessing you are a guitar and mandolin player from the Barnsley area so that would be a good start.
It doesn't need to be too much. There are plenty of examples of other folks to look at.
Sounds like you are going the right way about learning anyway.
Njal, don't worry to much about tune names.
I've just returned from Donegal, and in several wonderful sessions there I don't think I heard a single tune name mentioned. In a series of fiddle workshops I attended, our tutor, one of the most experienced fiddlers and teachers in Donegal, gave the name of nearly half the tunes he taught us as "gan ainm" - which means "name unknown" in Gaelic - and this apparently isn't uncommon. My mobile phone was kept busy in its digital recorder mode, but one lady from Germany had no recorder whatsoever, so she spent the coffee and lunch breaks jotting down the basics of the tunes in notation as best as she could, and we'd try to help her out when she got stuck.
Interestingly, our tutor observed that a number of tune names in O'Neill were probably made up on the spot. I think this was because the publisher of the "1001" felt that the general public wanted every tune to have a real name. And as if this isn't enough, you'll find that most tunes can have up to 4 or more different names, depending mainly on where they're played, and sometimes a single tune name can be associated with several different tunes.
Martin Hayes summarised it well when he said that if you know the name of every tune you know, then you don't know enough tunes.
Personally, I still can't remember which is which of "The Silver Spire" and "The Silver Spear"!
If you've just taken up the mandolin, you might want to check out mandolincafe.com. you'll find some nice instrument-specific support and they have a discussion section dedicated to celtic and celtic-type music with a mando leaning, 'sted of a trad leaning. there was a similar thread there this week, as a matter of fact. someone was looking for the top 10 or 20 standard jam (session) tunes so they'd be able to join in when they went to one. same advice as on this board, which really isn't a surprise
And one teeny little word of advice that I hope you won't need ...
It may surprise you after all the advice here that very occasionally you may be "heckled" by a sessioneer who should know better (or even a punter) for listening all night and not playing, or for not trying to "noodle" tunes you don't know. It's happened to me a couple of times (not locally though). Ignore any such heckling. If it persists, asking the heckler, "does it bother you that I'm listening rather than playing?" usually quietens it down.
granama - Thanks for the clarification about set dances. It sounds like I'd better learn the local favorites completely before trying to play along. As I suspected.
Tish - very nicely put.
Cheers, All,
Tom
First session?
First session?
Hi,
I have been a guitar player mainly for many years and have attended a few sessions playing old favourite songs such as Dirty Old Town, Wild Rover, Fields of Athenry, Spancill Hill, etc. plus some less, er, predictable ones such as Ride On (Christy Moore) and others.
Playing at these is relatively easy for me since if I know the song I can play along, or I can learn it on the spot (usually they're simple enough to jam along to).
Anyway, a month ago I bought a mandolin and have been learning some reels, polkas, etc.
At first I didn't know much about these tunes (still don't) i.e. which ones are most likely to be played, their names, etc.
Now I can play 7 tunes reasonably well and am learning a new one every few days.
But I am still intimidated about attending a tune session since I don't know how they work.
I was at one at the weekend - mostly fiddle players.
I didn't see anyone announce the name of the tune - or the set, a few tunes were strung together and everyone changed at the same time.
How do I know what to play and when to change?
Perhaps I just missed the instructions.
Many thanks.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Njal
Re: First session?
practice
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: First session?
Ha ha, we've all been there Njal,
Dont worry about it, there are no rules, no guidelines that anyone can really give you as each session has its own personality.
The only thing you can do is sit in. If they play a tune you know then play along if you can. If not.. LISTEN. its the only way to get comfortable in a session.
I still spend up to 50% of the time at a session listening, learning how the tunes are played in that session and what sets of tunes are played together.
I also record the sessions so I can play along with them at home without the risk of ruining it for everyone else.
Dont worry about how many tunes you know.. just dont play if you dont know them.
Most people are very supportive of a beginner. 9 times out of 10 you wil be asked to play a tune anyway.
Also dont worry about the names of tunes. only one person at our session bothers with the tune names, everyone else just asks "hey do you know that tune diddle idle deery aye.." etc. and then if they do they usually belt into it.
Basically just go with the flow and play if you can. When your not playing your learning just as much.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by session savage
Re: First session?
Thanks, session savage.
So, when a couple of tunes are being strung together, does someone usually say "we'll play this one, then this one"?
Recording sounds a good way of picking up tunes.
Sounds like regular attendance may help me pick up some of the regular tunes played.
I'm planning on going to Barnsley Folk Club as an, er, observer next time it's on!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Njal
Re: First session?
Sometimes someone will string the tunes they are going to play in advance of starting and let others know. More often than not though folk will just start playing and others will pick the tune up when they recognise it. The lead player might call out a key for the benefit of an accompanist (and they might even be right!!). The more you practice and play the quicker you will recognise the tunes they are playing.
If everyone just changes at once without a hair's breath then they might just be playing a regularly played set of tunes. If the folks in the session have been playing together for a long time then they will start to know what tune the lead is going to play next.
Good luck.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: First session?
There's a number of ways of stringing tunes together:
a) standard sets, ie, tunes that are traditionally played together globally. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
b) standard sets to the session, ie, tunes that are traditionally played together at that session. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
c) an individual's standard sets, ie, tunes that a particular player usually plays together. (though if you hear one of these tunes, don't assume the one normally pared with it will certainly be played next)
d) tune sets put together on the hoof. ie, improvised on the spur of the moment. (though if you are listening to a set being constructed live in this manner, don't assume that the next tune won't be one that is normally paired with it)
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: First session?
Haha, very useful information there.
Thanks v. much!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Njal
Re: First session?
Njal
Take good note of the points above - they contain good advice. Just a couple of other snippets-
- it's fairly common to play each tune 3 times through before moving to the next tune
- you may hear someone call 'hup' to indicate a change to the next tune (at least it can save you the embarassment of starting to play the same tune again, when the rest of the session has started up a new tune!)
- 3 times is common, but someone may call 'one more' to indicate once more through
- if the tune is a big one with 3 or 4 parts, twice through may be more common
-the 'hup' may be replaced by a mere glance between certain players - it's good to watch as well as listen in sessions!
None of the above is universal, or even consistent in the same session from week to week!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by domnull
Re: First session?
Also, it's common to play single reels (where the a and b parts are not repeated after each other) 4 or 5 times
And you will often get tunes in different keys from where you learned them. And tunes with extra parts or fewer parts or just different parts. Certainly different versions. So it's no good hearing a tune you like in a session, catching its name, and looking it up here to learn it. I'm not saying you'll learn it wrong, but you will almost certainly learn it wrong for that particular session.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: First session?
Also, which tunes to learn can be fraught. It's fair enough just learning tune you like, but if you want to play in sessions, you are best learning tunes you and the other session players like also. Watch out for peoples' expressions when tunes start up. Do they they lighten up and are they eager to play? Or do they roll their eyes and maybe play or go to the bar?
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: First session?
I'd like to add my two cents, since I'm relatively new to session playing; you will naturally want to learn tunes to be played in your session, so I'd just ask for names of a few that will be played regularly, then tape them for home listening.
Your best friends will be your ears and your tape recorder.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: First session?
Njal - lots of good advice here, as noted above.
One of the local leaders lifts his foot when a change is coming (in addition to the eye contact, which I've noticed most good musicians in whatever genre seem to do anyway).
It took me a long time (and a few humiliating moments) to understand that it's OK to sit in the circle and NOT play, if you don't know the tune. Your mates will appreciate you for that.
Stick with it, you're in for a heckuva ride. Have Fun!
-llig - interesting comment about the single reels. Also, what about set dances? They always seem to throw me...just experience, I guess.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by tomw
Re: First session?
"Also, what about set dances?"
A set dance is not a fixed form like a reel or jig - the number of bars in each part varies from one tune to the next - so they vary in length, which might have some bearing on how many times they are played. Also, being idiosyncratic in form, they don't necessarily fit together with other tunes easily, so they are quite often played singly rather than in sets.
It is worth bearing in mind that the number of times tunes are played within a set, whether or not certain parts are repeated within a tune, preferred speeds, particular versions of tunes etc. will vary from one place or group of musicians to another. Rules-of-thumb will take you so far, but what is most important as a visitor to a session is to always have your ears (and eyes) open to how things are done there. The more sessions you go to, the more easily you will pick up on the nuances.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: First session?
Great insights, thanks.
Looks like I have my work cut out for me.
I'll continue to learn my tunes, and try and visit a club regularly as a listener and see how it works before I dive in!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Njal
Re: First session?
BTW Njal, although you have told us a fair bit about yourself here it would be nice if you added some of that info to your profile. I am guessing you are a guitar and mandolin player from the Barnsley area so that would be a good start.
It doesn't need to be too much. There are plenty of examples of other folks to look at.
Sounds like you are going the right way about learning anyway.
All the best,
Alistair
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: First session?
"- you may hear someone call 'hup' to indicate a change to the next tune"
I had no idea that's what "hup!" was for. LOL (slightly embarrassed) I thought it was just a way to voice approval for whatever tune was being played.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Fishmonger
Re: First session?
Njal, don't worry to much about tune names.
I've just returned from Donegal, and in several wonderful sessions there I don't think I heard a single tune name mentioned. In a series of fiddle workshops I attended, our tutor, one of the most experienced fiddlers and teachers in Donegal, gave the name of nearly half the tunes he taught us as "gan ainm" - which means "name unknown" in Gaelic - and this apparently isn't uncommon. My mobile phone was kept busy in its digital recorder mode, but one lady from Germany had no recorder whatsoever, so she spent the coffee and lunch breaks jotting down the basics of the tunes in notation as best as she could, and we'd try to help her out when she got stuck.
Interestingly, our tutor observed that a number of tune names in O'Neill were probably made up on the spot. I think this was because the publisher of the "1001" felt that the general public wanted every tune to have a real name. And as if this isn't enough, you'll find that most tunes can have up to 4 or more different names, depending mainly on where they're played, and sometimes a single tune name can be associated with several different tunes.
Martin Hayes summarised it well when he said that if you know the name of every tune you know, then you don't know enough tunes.
Personally, I still can't remember which is which of "The Silver Spire" and "The Silver Spear"!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by lazyhound
Re: First session?
That's easy. Silver Spear is the one everybody else knows. Silver Spire is the one where most people look confused.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: First session?
If you've just taken up the mandolin, you might want to check out mandolincafe.com. you'll find some nice instrument-specific support and they have a discussion section dedicated to celtic and celtic-type music with a mando leaning, 'sted of a trad leaning. there was a similar thread there this week, as a matter of fact. someone was looking for the top 10 or 20 standard jam (session) tunes so they'd be able to join in when they went to one. same advice as on this board, which really isn't a surprise
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Mandogal
Re: First session?
Thanks lazyhound for the translation of the wording "gan ainm". Some time back I found myself wondering why there were so many tunes with that name!!!
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by Bredna
Re: First session?
This social interaction took place in a session in Bristol some years ago.
"What's the name of that tune?"
"Gan ainm"
"Howd'ye spell it? .... G-A-N A-I-N-M (writes it down) .... Yes, I see. It looks Irish."
Five minutes later ...
"What was that last tune called?"
"Gan ainm"
"Oh ... Yes,,." (writes it down, frowning slightly)
Smiles start to appear on some faces in the session (they're a friendly lot in Bristol).
Another five minutes later ...
"That second tune? what's its name?"
"Gan ainm"
"G-? How come? It's a completely different tune!"
Then someone kindly explains what "gan ainm" means.
# Posted on August 21st 2008 by lazyhound
Re: First session?
I thought HUP meant "from the top, but faster"
I hope it still does, I rather enjoy the odd race.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by mcknowall
Re: First session?
And one teeny little word of advice that I hope you won't need ...
It may surprise you after all the advice here that very occasionally you may be "heckled" by a sessioneer who should know better (or even a punter) for listening all night and not playing, or for not trying to "noodle" tunes you don't know. It's happened to me a couple of times (not locally though). Ignore any such heckling. If it persists, asking the heckler, "does it bother you that I'm listening rather than playing?" usually quietens it down.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by Tish
Re: First session?
granama - Thanks for the clarification about set dances. It sounds like I'd better learn the local favorites completely before trying to play along. As I suspected.
Tish - very nicely put.
Cheers, All,
Tom
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by tomw
Re: First session?
Make sure if you do record the session, you ask the musicians first. Its just common courtesy but unbelivable how many people dont do it.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: First session?
Mandogal: "someone was looking for the top 10 or 20 standard jam (session) tunes so they'd be able to join in when they went to one."
Yeah, that's what my original thoughts were.
I managed to find this list:
http://www.lesession.co.uk/music/UmfFaqSessionTunes.abc
Can't be bothered learning abc as I can read music, and I have managed to track most of them down at http://www.banjolin.co.uk/tunes/tunes.htm
I'm working my way through the list, but learning others from different sources as well.
# Posted on August 22nd 2008 by Njal