At a couple of sessions I attended recently, peopled by some fiery young players, I encountered quite a number of unfamiliar tunes. These musicians had an uncanny ability to play tunes I don't know and to not play tunes I do know. It was downright amazing
After some short-lived bouts of confusion and despair, I settled down and very much enjoyed myself as a listener rather than a participant. And I got to wondering -- where are people finding all these obscure (to me at least, which may not mean much) tunes? Why am I not getting the memos?
There's a web site where you can find all sorts of obscure tunes, and just about any tune you can think of. Can't remember the name though, maybe someone else can link it.
Cds of people or bands who do obscure tunes. Also there are session in Ireland where they play almost exclusively obscure tunes...I picked up alot from them.
What do you call young? Mirella Murray, Tola Custy, they are in their 30's. The others that I'm thinking of are around 27- 30+, but I'm not talking 18 or anything....although I know there are plenty of young ones playing the tunes.
Crazy fingerz... were these players regulars at your session or visiting? Or were you visiting their session?
I find sometimes if i visit a session i don't usually go to... i won't know any of the tunes. I recently went on a trip down to Melbourne and spent most of the time listening to... and learning tunes i've never played before.
Luckily i now know where most of these tune come from. I found this out by asking the players.
Greetings from Celtic Ray Punta Gorda Florida Session. Our little core group enjoys a bit of the obscure. Main sources include ONeill's 1850, abc collections, and the ever-metastasizing YouTube. Some of our group also play for English dancing and the rare ceili, so some british, scots and american tunes have found their way into the weekly stew.
One source of amazement for me is finding tunes that are so closely related or identical in some phrases. Makes me think of the trad tunes as more like nebulous clouds of notes with a general shape, but able to be mutated, like isotopes. Sometimes what seemed like an obscure tune turned out to be a version of something quite familiar that had been transcribed wrongly by an abc fan, then spread like a virus among the immunosuppressed dot readers (among whose number I count myself).
See, and you people thought I was down here all by myself.
Dave and I will be mutating some nebulous clouds tomorrow, it'll be grand. I learned a decent chunk of my tunes from him, so if they're obscure, you know where to complain to.
Yu know, if some, do as they say and "learn the tunes by ear at their local sessions", then visiting a new session would mean that many tunes are obscure.
I can think of where I first heard the Kesh jig... it was new to me because Id never been to a session that played it...
I've lived in different places and have dropped into many sessions... Ive never been the "core" of any session ever... Sometimes I just close my eyes and listen while holding my instrument. Listen really hard so that I can be part of the music. Maybe play a couple phrases. Ive learned lots of tunes that way. (I dont mean "noodlin")
Many tunes are obscure to me still... and I enjoy that. For me... Sessions should be where people get together and play music together... not where people get together and play tunes that everyone knows together.
*sigh*
just because you didnt know the tunes these people played in the session does not mean thry wer playing obscure tunes. the tunes that are played regularly in each session varies, people playing in a session in donegal WILL i guarantee you play different tunes to people in a session in dublin. even in dublin take the cobblestone for example there is music there every night. the tunes vary from each session, different people play different tunes.
don't worry about this, you don't have to know EVERY tune, nobody knows every tune. that is whats great about the music, there is always something new to find. i think its great that you actually stuck around at the session and listened instead of thinking 'im off cause i dont know any of the tunes they're playing'. some people are too wrapped up in wanting to play and forget to listen but thats a different thread.
if you want to learn and fins tunes then just listen to cds, good cds. its all there in the music, you just have to make good use of it.
Donough - you could commission them for the occasion. Good way to get good tunes written, as a side benefit.
As for the obscurity factor, I think there's a tendency to learn tunes from records (always has been) and there's also a tendency to put originally composed or somewhat rarer tunes on those records. If you think about the tunes on the "classic" records, they're often ones that everyone knows, and there's a pretty consistent repertoire from Coleman up to Tommy Peoples. Then you get in the last ten years or so records from Old Blind Dogs and Liz Carroll and so forth where the tunes are mostly newly composed ones, or from Verena Commins and Julie Langan where they're mostly old tunes, but they pick the really great material that you don't hear a lot of.
So the kids who get tunes from these records aren't getting the Blarney Pilgriim and Toss the Feathers, they're getting A Lovely Basket Of Fresh Smelling Flowers or whatever it's called. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's a bit of a drag I find when you get two or three people who have a shared repertoire that doesn't intersect with anyone else - it's not great for a session when you have two people sawing away at their tunes all night and sitting out everything else. I've always felt an obligation to try to make sure that I play stuff that is at least likely to be known, and keep the private tunes to the minimum. It's a little disconcerting to find others don't share that view, a little like talking to someone who's watching TV. They're sort of in the room with you, but you never actually feel like they're really there.
Jon, agree with most of your points above.
Taking the analogy of a session with a conversation: it is a tad boring meeting up with people who talk about the same thing every time you meet them. Hence the need for some varied material in sessions. When you are a beginner it can be frustrating but as you get better at learning tunes it is a joy to hear something nice that you never heard before so that you can go home and learn that tune for when you next play with that person. You will become tiresome if you play that tune every time you meet that person/people in a session.
No tune is 'private' if you play it for other people
I almost always get tunes from other people - in person, or at least a recording of the person playing the tune. I will go seek out commercial recordings of something that I'm learning, but that's rarely what gets me interested in the tune.
There have been a couple of times, where we've gotten session recordings from certain sessions, and learned pretty much everything that was played on the recording.
I get most of my new tunes from the radio, or flicking through tune collections, but they aren't really obscure tunes.
Some people can repeat tunes back at first hearing, some people can even write tunes down at first hearing.
I have no problem with the above, but can't always remember all the tune the next day - I need to know the name and look the tune up online ,so possibly end up with a different version, but at least I can remember some of the tune so meld the two together and put my own stamp on it - which is not a bad thing.
To prove the point about a repeat the tune competition, it would have to be a newly composed tune. Although I have had the comment aimed at me - "How do you know that tune, I only wrote it yesterday"
I often listen to some of these obscure type tunes played by groups of young players (obviously they are not obscure to them). and I find myself asking....is it a bird?...is it a plane?....is it a tune?...Maybe my brain is too tired to unscramble what appears to be a mish mash of notes played at break neck speed.
One person's obscure gem is another one's chestnut, for sure, but there is something slightly wrong with people who can go to a public house and play all night and never notice or care that hardly anyone else outside their little group is joining in. Tune selection has got a lot to do with this. People are far more likely to be interested in your obscure (to them) gem if you establish some common ground first.
Thankfully, you don't encounter these situations too often, but I'm sure we all have at times.
Free Reed - I just saw the acronym WTWKPTF on another site, and I think it might apply here. "Weird Tune, Weird Key, Played Too Fast". (Or it could simply be abbreviated to WTF.)
I used to get mine from fairies that followed the Irish to Boston and escaped into the New Hampshire wilderness, but now I have to get them from retired fairies that fly south for the winter. They all have summer homes in Maine.
"Free Reed - I just saw the acronym WTWKPTF on another site, and I think it might apply here. "Weird Tune, Weird Key, Played Too Fast". (Or it could simply be abbreviated to WTF." - Interesting, I didnt realise there was *too* fast....are the people who are playing *too* fast going to get booked by the Trad Police.....scary.
Its only a weird tune if people are too lazy to learn it...but no no - dont put yourselves out...keep playing the kesh over and over for years and years....I mean - what better way than to keep the tradition alive....
Hi, Besides seisuns I get tunes from classes, workshops and private lessons. I've learned some great tunes this past year from The Kane Sisters, Martin Hayes, Patrick Orceau, James Kelly etc... Le Ceoltóiri Cultúrlainne has a 2 cd/booklet with 200+ TUNES.
These cds have some really great tunes as well:
The Long Grazing Acre
Live At Mona's
A Celebration of 50 Years (Tulla)
The Godfather
Traditonal Irish Music, Kelly, Obrien and Sproule
Also check out WFUV radio on the internet, Kathleen Biggins show.
Just a few and just my opinion.
Where do you get the tunes?
Where do you get the tunes?
At a couple of sessions I attended recently, peopled by some fiery young players, I encountered quite a number of unfamiliar tunes. These musicians had an uncanny ability to play tunes I don't know and to not play tunes I do know. It was downright amazing
After some short-lived bouts of confusion and despair, I settled down and very much enjoyed myself as a listener rather than a participant. And I got to wondering -- where are people finding all these obscure (to me at least, which may not mean much) tunes? Why am I not getting the memos?
Any illumination would be most welcome.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
There's a web site where you can find all sorts of obscure tunes, and just about any tune you can think of. Can't remember the name though, maybe someone else can link it.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Cds of people or bands who do obscure tunes. Also there are session in Ireland where they play almost exclusively obscure tunes...I picked up alot from them.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by bb
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Biting sarcasm in the very first reply. I love this site.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
bb -- Regarding these obscure tunes sessions in Ireland...is this a trend among younger players perhaps?
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
What do you call young? Mirella Murray, Tola Custy, they are in their 30's. The others that I'm thinking of are around 27- 30+, but I'm not talking 18 or anything....although I know there are plenty of young ones playing the tunes.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by bb
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Crazy fingerz... were these players regulars at your session or visiting? Or were you visiting their session?
I find sometimes if i visit a session i don't usually go to... i won't know any of the tunes. I recently went on a trip down to Melbourne and spent most of the time listening to... and learning tunes i've never played before.
Luckily i now know where most of these tune come from. I found this out by asking the players.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by davydd
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Speaking obscure tunes - Beth has heaps, she knows everything!
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by bb
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Indeed she does BB... but i think that girl has the ability to play a tune perfectly the second time without even knowing the tune.
Lots of fun to play tunes with and I have learned sooooo much from her!
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by davydd
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I hate when people can do that - it just isnt fair
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by bb
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Greetings from Celtic Ray Punta Gorda Florida Session. Our little core group enjoys a bit of the obscure. Main sources include ONeill's 1850, abc collections, and the ever-metastasizing YouTube. Some of our group also play for English dancing and the rare ceili, so some british, scots and american tunes have found their way into the weekly stew.
One source of amazement for me is finding tunes that are so closely related or identical in some phrases. Makes me think of the trad tunes as more like nebulous clouds of notes with a general shape, but able to be mutated, like isotopes. Sometimes what seemed like an obscure tune turned out to be a version of something quite familiar that had been transcribed wrongly by an abc fan, then spread like a virus among the immunosuppressed dot readers (among whose number I count myself).
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Dave McGrath
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
See, and you people thought I was down here all by myself.
Dave and I will be mutating some nebulous clouds tomorrow, it'll be grand. I learned a decent chunk of my tunes from him, so if they're obscure, you know where to complain to.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
"i think that girl has the ability to play a tune perfectly the second time without even knowing the tune."
I still say there should be a competition category for this in the All Irelands to see how the claim stacks up in reality.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
But Jack, how would you be able to be sure that a competitor hadn't heard the tune before. Otherwise it would be a great idea
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Donough
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Everyplace has it's own obscure ones, it seems. Some, more than others. A locality thing.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Yu know, if some, do as they say and "learn the tunes by ear at their local sessions", then visiting a new session would mean that many tunes are obscure.
I can think of where I first heard the Kesh jig... it was new to me because Id never been to a session that played it...
I've lived in different places and have dropped into many sessions... Ive never been the "core" of any session ever... Sometimes I just close my eyes and listen while holding my instrument. Listen really hard so that I can be part of the music. Maybe play a couple phrases. Ive learned lots of tunes that way. (I dont mean "noodlin")
Many tunes are obscure to me still... and I enjoy that. For me... Sessions should be where people get together and play music together... not where people get together and play tunes that everyone knows together.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by The Merry Highlander
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
*sigh*
just because you didnt know the tunes these people played in the session does not mean thry wer playing obscure tunes. the tunes that are played regularly in each session varies, people playing in a session in donegal WILL i guarantee you play different tunes to people in a session in dublin. even in dublin take the cobblestone for example there is music there every night. the tunes vary from each session, different people play different tunes.
don't worry about this, you don't have to know EVERY tune, nobody knows every tune. that is whats great about the music, there is always something new to find. i think its great that you actually stuck around at the session and listened instead of thinking 'im off cause i dont know any of the tunes they're playing'. some people are too wrapped up in wanting to play and forget to listen but thats a different thread.
if you want to learn and fins tunes then just listen to cds, good cds. its all there in the music, you just have to make good use of it.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
tramdmoosic -- Sounds reasonable.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Speaking of biting sarcasm, where has llig been lately?
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by AlBrown
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Donough - you could commission them for the occasion. Good way to get good tunes written, as a side benefit.
As for the obscurity factor, I think there's a tendency to learn tunes from records (always has been) and there's also a tendency to put originally composed or somewhat rarer tunes on those records. If you think about the tunes on the "classic" records, they're often ones that everyone knows, and there's a pretty consistent repertoire from Coleman up to Tommy Peoples. Then you get in the last ten years or so records from Old Blind Dogs and Liz Carroll and so forth where the tunes are mostly newly composed ones, or from Verena Commins and Julie Langan where they're mostly old tunes, but they pick the really great material that you don't hear a lot of.
So the kids who get tunes from these records aren't getting the Blarney Pilgriim and Toss the Feathers, they're getting A Lovely Basket Of Fresh Smelling Flowers or whatever it's called. Nothing wrong with that, of course, but it's a bit of a drag I find when you get two or three people who have a shared repertoire that doesn't intersect with anyone else - it's not great for a session when you have two people sawing away at their tunes all night and sitting out everything else. I've always felt an obligation to try to make sure that I play stuff that is at least likely to be known, and keep the private tunes to the minimum. It's a little disconcerting to find others don't share that view, a little like talking to someone who's watching TV. They're sort of in the room with you, but you never actually feel like they're really there.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Jon, agree with most of your points above.
Taking the analogy of a session with a conversation: it is a tad boring meeting up with people who talk about the same thing every time you meet them. Hence the need for some varied material in sessions. When you are a beginner it can be frustrating but as you get better at learning tunes it is a joy to hear something nice that you never heard before so that you can go home and learn that tune for when you next play with that person. You will become tiresome if you play that tune every time you meet that person/people in a session.
No tune is 'private' if you play it for other people
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Donough
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I almost always get tunes from other people - in person, or at least a recording of the person playing the tune. I will go seek out commercial recordings of something that I'm learning, but that's rarely what gets me interested in the tune.
There have been a couple of times, where we've gotten session recordings from certain sessions, and learned pretty much everything that was played on the recording.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I get most of my new tunes from the radio, or flicking through tune collections, but they aren't really obscure tunes.
Some people can repeat tunes back at first hearing, some people can even write tunes down at first hearing.
I have no problem with the above, but can't always remember all the tune the next day - I need to know the name and look the tune up online ,so possibly end up with a different version, but at least I can remember some of the tune so meld the two together and put my own stamp on it - which is not a bad thing.
To prove the point about a repeat the tune competition, it would have to be a newly composed tune. Although I have had the comment aimed at me - "How do you know that tune, I only wrote it yesterday"
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I often listen to some of these obscure type tunes played by groups of young players (obviously they are not obscure to them). and I find myself asking....is it a bird?...is it a plane?....is it a tune?...Maybe my brain is too tired to unscramble what appears to be a mish mash of notes played at break neck speed.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Free Reed
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
One person's obscure gem is another one's chestnut, for sure, but there is something slightly wrong with people who can go to a public house and play all night and never notice or care that hardly anyone else outside their little group is joining in. Tune selection has got a lot to do with this. People are far more likely to be interested in your obscure (to them) gem if you establish some common ground first.
Thankfully, you don't encounter these situations too often, but I'm sure we all have at times.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by Bren
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I find myself learning more and more what may be cosidered obscure tunes. I'm 55 and have been playing Irish tunes for a bit more than 25 years.
The funny thing about all that is, if you play some of the relatively common tunes from way back, some folks will consider these as obscure as well.
I haven't been going to sessions much since I moved away from New England so I get tunes from you tube and other sites a lot as well as from CD's.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by StephenR
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Free Reed - I just saw the acronym WTWKPTF on another site, and I think it might apply here. "Weird Tune, Weird Key, Played Too Fast". (Or it could simply be abbreviated to WTF.)
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
I used to get mine from fairies that followed the Irish to Boston and escaped into the New Hampshire wilderness, but now I have to get them from retired fairies that fly south for the winter. They all have summer homes in Maine.
# Posted on August 15th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
They probably have ways of getting their royalties that I would rather not think of.
# Posted on August 16th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
"Free Reed - I just saw the acronym WTWKPTF on another site, and I think it might apply here. "Weird Tune, Weird Key, Played Too Fast". (Or it could simply be abbreviated to WTF." - Interesting, I didnt realise there was *too* fast....are the people who are playing *too* fast going to get booked by the Trad Police.....scary.
Its only a weird tune if people are too lazy to learn it...but no no - dont put yourselves out...keep playing the kesh over and over for years and years....I mean - what better way than to keep the tradition alive....
# Posted on August 16th 2008 by bb
Re: Where do you get the tunes?
Hi, Besides seisuns I get tunes from classes, workshops and private lessons. I've learned some great tunes this past year from The Kane Sisters, Martin Hayes, Patrick Orceau, James Kelly etc... Le Ceoltóiri Cultúrlainne has a 2 cd/booklet with 200+ TUNES.
These cds have some really great tunes as well:
The Long Grazing Acre
Live At Mona's
A Celebration of 50 Years (Tulla)
The Godfather
Traditonal Irish Music, Kelly, Obrien and Sproule
Also check out WFUV radio on the internet, Kathleen Biggins show.
Just a few and just my opinion.
# Posted on August 19th 2008 by jim07704