Anyone used a carbon fibre violin bow? How do they compare with pernambuco? I'm thinking of buying a Coda Aspire but there are no shops in my area (Merseyside, England) who stock them.
I've been using one (a Glasser CF) for about 2-1/2 years and have absolutely 0 complaints about it.
I've compared it to wood bows ranging from bargain basement to about $500US and can't feel or hear any differences on my high-quality student model fiddle.
For $180US (when I bought it), it was worth every dollar.
I've only been playing in a session for 6 months, now, but having a nearly indestructable bow is a plus in a crowded area.
I've used a Coda Classic ($700 US) for the last year and a half and it stands right up to my good pernambuco bows ($800 to $3,000 US). From what I've seen of the Coda line, I'd recommend going for the Conservatory model at least, rather than the Aspire--you'll get better balance and a more powerful bow that will produce a good tone at session volumes. I like the Classic, myself, well worth the extra money. And playing in pubs, it does come in hand having an indestructible stick....
That said, there are plenty of decent pernambuco bows kicking around, but you have to know what you're looking for. It can be difficult for a less experienced player to suss out the difference between a lively but stable bow and a bow that will refuse to cooperate. In my experience, the better brands of carbon fiber bows are at least consistent--you'll get a stable, fairly responsive bow sight unseen. The main difference comes in the density of the frog. Manufacturers can't control the density of the ebony, so you'll see a few grams difference between otherwise identical CF bows. Because this difference is all located in the frog, the balance point will be different from bow to bow. You need to play a few of the same make and model to find one that suits you.
Have a look at my post in http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1853 on the subject of pernambuco v carbon fibre.
Bearing in mind that you can now buy a carbon fibre bow at a fraction of the price of a decent pernambuco bow, because carbon fibre can be designed to match all the mechanical characteristics of the best wood bows and has virtually zero wastage in manufacture, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that it makes more sense to spend a few hundred
i bought a coda colours bow a couple of months ago and like it a lot. it's very responsive and comparable to my 'good' pernambuco bow. the only real difference i've noticed is that the colours bow tends to lose a bit of my fiddle's low end. not enough to be irritating, but just enough to notice.
if you're sticking with coda bows -- and you can afford it -- you might want to try out some colours bows. i tried out a bunch of both types (as well as some musicari (sp?) bows) and i found the aspires generally not to my liking. although i do have to admit that i found one aspire that i liked almost as much as the colours bow i bought, i finally decided that the colours bow was worth the additional US $100 or so that i paid.
Sarah's comment about losing some of the bass response fits with my experience. I also have a "colours" bow. The other thing I notice is more bowhair to string noise with the CF bow. I also switch back to the wooden bow to play airs or waltzes.
I've got a Coda Classic and like it lots. Quick and responsive but yet controllable. The one bad thing that I have noticed about it is that it seems to make double stops sound harsher in tone compared to my wood bow. Anyone else notice this? Maybe it's just my fiddle. Pat
I wonder if Pat and Bob are using the same rosin on their different bows. I switched from Hill dark to a fairly light, smooth rosin (Millant Deroux) and noticed far less bow noise, on all my bows. Still grippy enough for Irish music (bowed triplets, etc.), but nice and smooth. Also, hair tension makes a difference. My CF bow seems to be livelier at lower hair tension than my pernambuco bows.
Otherwise, I don't notice any difference in tone between my Coda Classic and my main pernambuco bow.
P.S. I bought my Coda from a rep I played with a community symphony. But my main thing is Celtic, so unless you're into really high-end gear, in my opinion it's safe to say a Coda will hold up with whatever you're playing.
Does anybody out there have a Baroque bow? I've read they're lighter and better suited to some of quick Bach stuff, which makes me wonder how one would work ripping through a jig!
Romkey, I stand to be corrected on this, but I believe the Baroque bow should be used on an instrument with the fairly flat bridge which enabled the player to do all the chord work you find in the fiddle music of that period.
Trevor
Will, the point you made about your CF bow playing better with a lower hair tension than the pernambuco bow seems to apply as well to my relatively inexpensive
Trevor, there's no particular tie that I'm aware of between the flat bridge and the baroque bow - you don't have to have a flat bridge for that kind of bow to work.
The bridge as you say makes chords easier but the bow's characteristics are to do with articulation and a natural "shaping" of the note, as the bow stroke tends to be weak-strong-weak rather than uniform from one end to the other like a modern bow. It's fairly common for players new to period instrument performance to start out playing their modern instruments with baroque bows.
Heh heh heh, the same thought occured to me as I was typing, actually. I haven't heard of a CF baroque bow but it's not a bad idea. I'll look around and let you know if I find one! (I'm far from an expert, Trevor, I just happen to have an example under my nose.)
And it was a bad day at work - I really meant to type "hatchet head" not "pike's head" (which is the popular description of the baroque bow tip). I realised I had typed the wrong thing as I was practising tonight and I can't even say I was playing the Freudian Slip Jig at the time 8>#
Will..thanks for the mention about the rosin/bow noise. I'm using the Hidersine dark rosin which seemed to let me play longer between rosinings (if that's a word) with my bow/string combo. I believe I'll give the light rosin a try with the CF bow. Mine too likes to be played at a lower tension. I frequently practise with a foam earplug in my left ear(suggested by my teacher as a means of hearing the room more than just the fiddle) and when I did this I became aware of the physical feeling of the bow catching as you reverse bow direction and the CF bow definitely gives a bigger pop on the reverse which probably means it could use a less sticky rosin.
I've got a pair of Coda Classics (and they are actually pretty different bows) and I'll agree that they handle quite well for the price, but the tone they generate is sub-par. There's a harshness to them that doesn't do the fiddle justice. That said, my personal taste is that I'd rather have a nice handling than a nice sounding bow, especially since trad playing values bowing so much. In this range, compromises have to be made... :(
A fine bowmaker with good wood (pernambuco) can make a bow that will far exceed in tone and handling, anything we can do with CF (at least for now).
PC
PS--Best bow I've ever played was a bow by Roy Quade...holy cow, like picking up something living and playing with a spark.
May I have your comments to my Webpage?
www.leopold-bow.com
Please let me know what you miss and expect to find.
You are welcome to ask any intelligent question about antique/new wooden and CF bows.
The best idea will become a Leopold bow for free.
http://www.leopold-bow.com
offers a wide range of second hand vi, vla & vcl CF bows.
We trade in all CF brands in good condition.
Please contact:
sb@leopold-bow.com
and let us know your price range.
We will answer all requests as soon as possible.
Carbon Fibre Bows
Carbon Fibre Bows
Anyone used a carbon fibre violin bow? How do they compare with pernambuco? I'm thinking of buying a Coda Aspire but there are no shops in my area (Merseyside, England) who stock them.
# Posted on July 14th 2003 by mandofab
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I've been using one (a Glasser CF) for about 2-1/2 years and have absolutely 0 complaints about it.
I've compared it to wood bows ranging from bargain basement to about $500US and can't feel or hear any differences on my high-quality student model fiddle.
For $180US (when I bought it), it was worth every dollar.
I've only been playing in a session for 6 months, now, but having a nearly indestructable bow is a plus in a crowded area.
Len
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
A few weeks ago I bought a carbon fibre bow for
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I've used a Coda Classic ($700 US) for the last year and a half and it stands right up to my good pernambuco bows ($800 to $3,000 US). From what I've seen of the Coda line, I'd recommend going for the Conservatory model at least, rather than the Aspire--you'll get better balance and a more powerful bow that will produce a good tone at session volumes. I like the Classic, myself, well worth the extra money. And playing in pubs, it does come in hand having an indestructible stick....
That said, there are plenty of decent pernambuco bows kicking around, but you have to know what you're looking for. It can be difficult for a less experienced player to suss out the difference between a lively but stable bow and a bow that will refuse to cooperate. In my experience, the better brands of carbon fiber bows are at least consistent--you'll get a stable, fairly responsive bow sight unseen. The main difference comes in the density of the frog. Manufacturers can't control the density of the ebony, so you'll see a few grams difference between otherwise identical CF bows. Because this difference is all located in the frog, the balance point will be different from bow to bow. You need to play a few of the same make and model to find one that suits you.
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Have a look at my post in http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1853 on the subject of pernambuco v carbon fibre.
Bearing in mind that you can now buy a carbon fibre bow at a fraction of the price of a decent pernambuco bow, because carbon fibre can be designed to match all the mechanical characteristics of the best wood bows and has virtually zero wastage in manufacture, I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that it makes more sense to spend a few hundred
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
i bought a coda colours bow a couple of months ago and like it a lot. it's very responsive and comparable to my 'good' pernambuco bow. the only real difference i've noticed is that the colours bow tends to lose a bit of my fiddle's low end. not enough to be irritating, but just enough to notice.
if you're sticking with coda bows -- and you can afford it -- you might want to try out some colours bows. i tried out a bunch of both types (as well as some musicari (sp?) bows) and i found the aspires generally not to my liking. although i do have to admit that i found one aspire that i liked almost as much as the colours bow i bought, i finally decided that the colours bow was worth the additional US $100 or so that i paid.
sarah
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by sarahc
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Sarah's comment about losing some of the bass response fits with my experience. I also have a "colours" bow. The other thing I notice is more bowhair to string noise with the CF bow. I also switch back to the wooden bow to play airs or waltzes.
Bob
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by bmcivor
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I've got a Coda Classic and like it lots. Quick and responsive but yet controllable. The one bad thing that I have noticed about it is that it seems to make double stops sound harsher in tone compared to my wood bow. Anyone else notice this? Maybe it's just my fiddle. Pat
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Pat
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I wonder if Pat and Bob are using the same rosin on their different bows. I switched from Hill dark to a fairly light, smooth rosin (Millant Deroux) and noticed far less bow noise, on all my bows. Still grippy enough for Irish music (bowed triplets, etc.), but nice and smooth. Also, hair tension makes a difference. My CF bow seems to be livelier at lower hair tension than my pernambuco bows.
Otherwise, I don't notice any difference in tone between my Coda Classic and my main pernambuco bow.
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Will Harmon
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I have a Coda Classic and it's a great bow. I have a decent pernambuco bow, too, but the last time I used it was when the Coda was in to be rehaired!
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Romkey
I forgot to say...
P.S. I bought my Coda from a rep I played with a community symphony. But my main thing is Celtic, so unless you're into really high-end gear, in my opinion it's safe to say a Coda will hold up with whatever you're playing.
Does anybody out there have a Baroque bow? I've read they're lighter and better suited to some of quick Bach stuff, which makes me wonder how one would work ripping through a jig!
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Romkey
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Romkey, I stand to be corrected on this, but I believe the Baroque bow should be used on an instrument with the fairly flat bridge which enabled the player to do all the chord work you find in the fiddle music of that period.
Trevor
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Carbon fibre bows
Will, the point you made about your CF bow playing better with a lower hair tension than the pernambuco bow seems to apply as well to my relatively inexpensive
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Hi Romkey,
I have three fiddle bows
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Tish
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Trevor, there's no particular tie that I'm aware of between the flat bridge and the baroque bow - you don't have to have a flat bridge for that kind of bow to work.
The bridge as you say makes chords easier but the bow's characteristics are to do with articulation and a natural "shaping" of the note, as the bow stroke tends to be weak-strong-weak rather than uniform from one end to the other like a modern bow. It's fairly common for players new to period instrument performance to start out playing their modern instruments with baroque bows.
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Tish
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Tish, thanks for putting me right on the baroque bow/bridge details.
Trevor
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Another thought. How about a CF baroque bow?
Trevor
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Heh heh heh, the same thought occured to me as I was typing, actually. I haven't heard of a CF baroque bow but it's not a bad idea. I'll look around and let you know if I find one! (I'm far from an expert, Trevor, I just happen to have an example under my nose.)
And it was a bad day at work - I really meant to type "hatchet head" not "pike's head" (which is the popular description of the baroque bow tip). I realised I had typed the wrong thing as I was practising tonight and I can't even say I was playing the Freudian Slip Jig at the time 8>#
Sorry!
# Posted on July 15th 2003 by Tish
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Will..thanks for the mention about the rosin/bow noise. I'm using the Hidersine dark rosin which seemed to let me play longer between rosinings (if that's a word) with my bow/string combo. I believe I'll give the light rosin a try with the CF bow. Mine too likes to be played at a lower tension. I frequently practise with a foam earplug in my left ear(suggested by my teacher as a means of hearing the room more than just the fiddle) and when I did this I became aware of the physical feeling of the bow catching as you reverse bow direction and the CF bow definitely gives a bigger pop on the reverse which probably means it could use a less sticky rosin.
Bob
# Posted on July 16th 2003 by bmcivor
PS
Tish.. you will be posting the Freudian Slip Jig won't you. :-}
. Bob
# Posted on July 16th 2003 by bmcivor
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I see it !!! I see it !!!!
Bob
# Posted on July 16th 2003 by bmcivor
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Check out the tune section at concertina.net, Bob - you'll find it there 8>)
# Posted on July 16th 2003 by Tish
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
I've got a pair of Coda Classics (and they are actually pretty different bows) and I'll agree that they handle quite well for the price, but the tone they generate is sub-par. There's a harshness to them that doesn't do the fiddle justice. That said, my personal taste is that I'd rather have a nice handling than a nice sounding bow, especially since trad playing values bowing so much. In this range, compromises have to be made... :(
A fine bowmaker with good wood (pernambuco) can make a bow that will far exceed in tone and handling, anything we can do with CF (at least for now).
PC
PS--Best bow I've ever played was a bow by Roy Quade...holy cow, like picking up something living and playing with a spark.
# Posted on July 20th 2003 by allezlesbleus
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
May I have your comments to my Webpage?
www.leopold-bow.com
Please let me know what you miss and expect to find.
You are welcome to ask any intelligent question about antique/new wooden and CF bows.
The best idea will become a Leopold bow for free.
All the best
Leopold
# Posted on March 8th 2004 by leopold bow
Re: Carbon Fibre Bows
Fiddlers please pay attention!
http://www.leopold-bow.com
offers a wide range of second hand vi, vla & vcl CF bows.
We trade in all CF brands in good condition.
Please contact:
sb@leopold-bow.com
and let us know your price range.
We will answer all requests as soon as possible.
Cordially
Leopold
sb@leopold-bow.com
# Posted on October 9th 2004 by leopold bow