Hey been playin the whistle for 3 years, and the accorian for 2, and decided to start playing the fiddle. Can't really find one online though, or here in North Carolina. Where can I find a good cheap starter violin online?
Don't know what cheap means to you, but I'd go to http://www.sharmusic.com/ and see what they have w/in the price range you're looking for. Never heard anything bad about them, and I've been pleased w/them so far.
My only word of advice is to say that I think you should buy the best possible fiddle you can afford. Even as a beginner (and especially as one who has played other instruments) you want to hear a nice sound. At least the best you can make.
Nothing is more off-putting than making a horrible noise. As for the investment well if you decide to quit the fiddle you can always on-sell the instrument and providing you paid a fair price there should be little or no money lost.
Hmmmm, I'm looking on the website, and it has a beginning Hoffman violin that says it's meant for to see if you like playing the violin. It must be good quality, because they're not going to sell a crappy violin when you're trying to see if you like playing the violin right? Oh yeah, and what's it talking about sizes? (1/4, 1/8 etc.)?????
One thing to remember is as a beginner you'll be making horrible noises no matter what you play. Even if you spend $2000 on a violin it'll still sound like a cracker box for the first year of learning. So i say get the best you can reasonably afford (don''t take food out of your cats mouth; No more than you'd spend on a nice leather coat or new TV) that will hold its value for resale.
OH and as a long time fiddle teacher told me... "Spend your money on the bow !!" a really good bow make all the difference for the beginner. like a good engine in a rusted out car.
Just a option here. Not a recommendation by any means... but something that i did...
If you are the least bit handy in the wood shop do, what I did and get one of those $50 violins they have for sale all the time on eBay.
with a little work and simple tools you can get a half decent fiddle out of them by pulling off the top and replacing the bass bar with something more substantial than the thin little piece of scrap wood they use in the factory. The improvement in sound is amazing! A friend who plays in the local Symphony who played it says he can't believe how good it sounds! (for a 50 buck fiddle.... ;) )
So now I have a decent fiddle for learning on that I'm not embarrassed at all to play at my sessions could easily sell for $250 that i can use until I save up for a good one.
I've built a mandolin and a Ukulele so i consider myself a bit of an amateur luthier but anyone handy could tackle a refit of a fiddle like this. An if you wreck it, you're only out $50 buck and still have the nice case that come with these cheap-o Chinese fiddles.!
If anyone would like details about this fiddle surgery, e-mail me.
I started a little over a year ago with one of the outfits from www.folkmusician.com for about 250. It comes with a case and everything you need to get started. The sound is nothing spectacular but decent. I did find that replacing the bow made a huge difference. I have since moved on to a fiddle that has been in my family for awhile and have since restored. I do still play the beginner one from time to time as it just seems easier to play.
Where in North Carolina do you live? I used to live in Greensboro and there are lots of violin makers hidden around. Don't buy a cheapo- you will only wish you hadn't in a year's time, and it might be hard to sell. I'd recommend connecting with the violin/fiddle community; local symphony, music shops, festivals, high schools, etc. Good fiddles are bought and sold all the time but you have to know who to ask.
I'm guessing there are good fiddles around you, but maybe not in obvious places. Get out and find some jams, or some teachers, or go to some festivals - that will lead you to the luthiers who work out of their houses and players who are big collectors of fiddles. I think your best bet is to meet someone with a somewhat battered but good sounding fiddle for a reasonable price. You might also try garage sales, antique stores and pawn shops - I know a few people who've been lucky enough to find something good in those places...
If you're new to fiddle, I would suggest having a fiddler friend go with you to a fiddle shop and have him help you pick one. Many reputable shops will give you the full price towards an upgrade later, and most have fiddles in all price ranges. I'd let your friend play them while you listen. I like the idea of getting the best fiddle you can afford, but $200 isn't going to leave you a lot to choose from. If you're not 100% sure, you may want to rent one for a couple months.
Fiddle is probably the only instrument where it doesn't matter that
much how good it is. It's more important to buy good strings and an ok
bow. You can play a $50 fiddle in tune and in rhythm. A $5000 fiddle
won't be any more in tune or in rhythm. If you're not playing for money
or making recordings, what does it matter?
Of course it's a totally different story on accordion, flute etc etc
Hup's right - I read an interview with a Cajun fiddler who learned on a cigar box fiddle he made when he was a kid. He collected broken strings from fiddle players, and his bow was made from a branch and some thread. Most people (or maybe just me) aren't that driven and get frustrated and bored if their instrument is incapable of producing good sounds occasionally. I'd also recommend getting some help with set up so you're operating somewhat ergonomically...
Like the advice above, I'd suggest you take a friend who plays and try out lots of fiddles. You may well find a fiddle that just sounds right to your ear at a reasonable price. Try lots of fiddles, get your friend to try them too - even fiddles waaaaay above your budget... see what they're like and whether your ear can hear any difference between them. Once you get more experienced, you will probably hear differences that you can't distinguish at this stage. Also bear in mind, as described above, that even a good fiddle can have a weak, suboptimal sound if it is not set up well.
I bought a little fiddle (1/8) for my daughter recently - At the music shop they were a little surprised when I kept asking them to keep on bringing out more fiddles to try. As it was, the second fiddle was the one that sounded really nice. My daughter likes it, I think it has a lovely sweet tone, and my daughter's teacher was pleasantly surprised - a late onset accordion player with no musical training (esp fiddle) picking a really nice little instrument.
It probably isn't that hard to do in some ways, but well, I think that the secret is to find an instrument that sounds as pleasing as possible to your ears, as you are able to afford. Something you will be able to grow into, maybe.
Hup, airport, I respectfully disagree. A $50 fiddle just does not have the playability that a $5k fiddle does. All things being equal, a decent setup that makes a fiddle playable sets a minimum price point of about $200. The difference between a $50 and a $200 fiddle is the setup. The difference between a $200 and $5k fiddle is the tone, response, etc. If you want a fiddle that will last several years, you're talking $500+. That will get you a decent setup, as well as give you decent response, reserve, etc. This is all assuming a lot of things. Can a newbie use 5k worth of fiddle right away? Of course not. But they can reach the limits of a $200 fiddle really quick. As for the cigar box thing, most folks would give up in a week or two just from the awful tone. Just like a $50 fiddle.
Of course, one can always buy a $50 fiddle and put $150 worth of setup into it......
IMHO, someone with previous musical experience will outgrow a $50 fiddle before they buy it, and a $200 fiddle within a year or two. YMMV.
you there wildman - you go to any of these sessions here in Portland? I never said a $5000 fiddle sounded like a $50 fiddle, but the best fiddles I've heard that were cheap were one found under a stack of junk in an old antique store in upstate Maine, and one found at an estate sale for $40. The antique store fiddle was $150 and just needed strings. The $40 dollar fiddle needed a bridge and tailpiece. I think it's rare but possible to find something great for $200, but not in a consignment music shop and certainly not in any violin shop. I also totally agree with Brown Creeper that you should trust your guts and ears.
... I bought a nice little no label small violin in London for one of my sons when he was about five (he is now 32). They had Suzuki violin lessons available at the school and he and a friend did them together. I can't remember the size of it, except that it was the right size and it had a really nice sound. I used to sometimes play it, but my fingers were a tad too big. He played in London and then for a while in Oz until his Aussie Suzuki teacher was having a baby and handed her pupils over to someone who expected even the little kiddywinks to read dots. The end of that. I sold it to a music shop for an enormous profit and that's all I can remember, long time ago, and thought, after their cut, it would be very expensive to buy. There obviously was a market for such an instrument.
I agree with Hup. No point in spending big money when you're starting out. The set up is the important thing I recon. Some of the Chinese violins are really good value if you replace the cheap plastic parts, fit good strings, and get them set up properly IMHO. I'm playing one at the moment and I'm really happy with it (though I've also got a few oldies as well, I've become a bit of a collector ... love 'em). ... and yep I agree with Brown Creeper too ... be led by your ears. My purse wouldn't cover a made for me especially violin, and quite frankly I couldn't justify it either.
airport, I do go to the occasional session, but only to listen. I'm too new to join in at most of them-2.5 years for me now, and some downtime in there from injuries. (besides, I'm not a very social person) I have played at Sarah C's house session once, and am planning on going this Friday again. That is more my speed.
My post above was about new fiddles, mainly. There are, of course, many gems to be found in attics and such, but a newbie wouldn't know what to look for. I think it's important for a beginner to have an instrument that is playable in terms of string height, action, response, pegs that actually work and such. Tone is less important for a year or two.
The advice to bring a friend along is worth its weight in gold.
I started out on a $1k fiddle, and haven't regretted it a bit.
that was exactly my point about consignment fiddles, Clear Drops - once the shop gets their cut it's no bargain, although you might find a really good instrument that way. How about the pizza session wildman? it's a good mix of abilities - lots of songs too. The pizza's good, and the conversation's minimal. Maybe I'll see you up there sometime...
I have actually bought 2 ebay fiddles as well as several more expensive ones. A lot of my friends say they sound good for forty dollars. However, as they are press board, the sound does not carry well. You have to put tons of effort in it in order to draw the tone out. I also think the the notes do not vibrate well in the belly of the instrument. The main thing these instruments are good for is you can take it anywhere you want without risking losing a great deal of money or a valuable instrument. In fact, I recently took my better sounding ebay fiddles to a lake and played at the waterfalls, which was cool. If I had my good fiddle with me, I would have never dared take it because I could have fallen off the rocks, etc.
I also bought a fiddle for about $200-$300, but it didn't really sound much better than the ebay ones.
Sound is the best thing to go by. Also the sound will be different under your ear than when you hear someone else play it.
Regarding the ebay fiddles, it only took a few months for my fiddle teacher to ask me at each lesson, when are you going to get a better sounding fiddle.
Also, when you are first starting out, the better fiddle you have, the easier it will be to learn. One good thing to look for is a fiddle that is easy to bow. That way you won't have to put as much effort into bowing and can focus more on learning.
I would say to start with an instrument that is hand-carved. It will make a big, big difference.
My original Lark (cost then 21 English pounds) did me over 30 years without needing repairs, but now it does, it isn't worth mending. When I started, my Irish trad teacher used to play it himself. When he played it, it sounded bluudy radical. Its not the fiddle, its the player. It was good value, good enough for me.
... but now my fiddle collection is up to six. The Chinese one I'm playing now is handmade and definitely not of "pressed wood", although the old timber may well be recycled. I bought it as a stop gap till the old Mittenwald girl was repaired (its repaired but still away in Canberra), but I really like it. I hate these generalisations that put things down. Not all Chinese fiddles are factory made crap ... and ... Yep, I question that consignment fiddles are worth what you end up paying for them, because the shop takes its cut.
They certainly aren't bargains, and what is wrong with being lead by your heart? on such matters. Heavens, all you need from an instrument is that it does what you require and you enjoy playing it. I'm no Andre Rieu (thank goodness!) ... and some of my fiddles are amazing (to my ears) ... just love 'em. ... but then if you must be able to say that you paid $1k for your fiddle, then I guess you must ... but its a kind of snobbery that I don't buy into myself.
I'm confused. How exactly does saying my fiddle cost $1k constitute snobbery? Did I say anywhere that I was better than anybody else? Where did I say that unless somebody bought a $1k fiddle they were lesser than me?
Really, do you have any idea what a thousand dollars means to me and what I've had to sacrifice to have a decent instrument?
If having a different opinion than yourself makes me a snob, than so be it.
BTW, what percentage of folks who start on a $40 Chinese factory special stick with it? 10%? 5%? 2%? There are a lot of points in this thread I agree with, but starting out on a piece of crap instrument is not one of those points.
Like most people are saying there isn't much point in spending a lot on a fiddle at first unless you're sure that you want to continue playing. Losing $200 dollars compared to $500 is a lot easier to deal with!
A lot of people in my school start on Stentor fiddles and to be honest if you put a decent set of strings on to a Stentor Conservatoire it sounds a lot better. I think they're maybe just a wee bit more than $200 dollars however.
But either way, you don't have to keep the fiddle you buy just now forever!
Hmm - I agree with awildman here, I think its better to spend a bit of money and get a nice fiddle. In terms of fiddles $1000 really isnt that much, and its an investment..or you can sell it on again later. I think it makes a difference starting on a nice instrument instead of a crappy one. I personally cannot stand the sound of chinese cheapies -someone may as well be scratching their fingernails on a chalk board.
Mine retails for $A850 but I got it by trading in a viola bow
that somebody sold me years ago along with one of those $50
fiddles. He thought he was ripping me off, but I think I got the
better of him in the end; he had no idea what that viola bow was
worth.
Everybody knows somebody who paid eighty bucks for a fiddle that turned out to be really nice, but for each “somebody,” there are probably fifty someotherbodies who paid eighty bucks and got a nice piece of junk. Yes, there are some great bargains lurking out there, but they are rare and are likely to be grabbed by experienced players or dealers, not by the typical student in need of a beginner’s fiddle.
Whoawhoa, does your $200 limit include allowance for the bow?
Of course it's the player. And if the PLAYER can't stand the sound coming from their crap violin, they won't PLAY at it very long. If the PLAYER can't stand the 4mm string height at the nut, they won't PLAY at it very long. A PLAYER needs a PLAYABLE instrument. The PLAYER who sticks with it is the exception to the rule, not the rule. The cost can range from free to priceless. Price is the result of materials, time, and skill. With new instruments, this results in a minimum price point, generally speaking of course. Simple ecomonics. In my opinion, with a decent setup, that price point in the US is about $200, closer to $300 for the whole outfit.
How is someone with a $200 budget going to be able to be led by their ears? If the choices are slim and none, the obvious choice is slim. And if, as was originally asked, bought online, where does the ear enter the equation at all?
whoawhoa, if you have got on fine with your other instruments and are not just moving from instrument to instrument leaving each one behind as you go (not suggesting that, just trying to give balanced advice) then go for the best instrument you can, within reason. I would say you should avoid bargin basement fiddles.
Unlike guitar, banjo, keys or any other fretted or pre-tuned instrument, instruments like fiddle or pipes will murder you if they are very low quality. If you pay a few hundred dollars remember you can still sell it on if it doesn't work out for you.
The fiddle requires a lot of hard work so you should give yourself the best chance. That means you want the instrument to be in tune with itself. Even open strings can be out of tune. Do try and enlist the help of a friendly quality fiddler and don't buy what you think is a bargin with a rush of blood. A good fiddler will at least help you get a decent fiddle that is worth what you pay and can be sold on if you don't get on with it.
Yep, were I to have my life over, I wouldn't have started on the Lark, but it was a present, it was well tweaked, and had I not been given it, I wouldn't have ever played fiddle or got interested in Irish trad. The fiddle came first. There are cheap ones, not necessarily Chinese, that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole ... and I have heard a few $1k+ violins that I wouldn't touch for anything either. The price does not necessarily correlate and is not the important consideration, IMHO.
I seem to remember being told by some kind of experiment being conducted in a music school where a range of instruments were played by the same professional player, the same tune, behind a curtain, and a group of people were given the task of ranking the violins according to price range, and they couldn't do it.
True all that, but the sound under your ear is at least as important as the sound 30 feet away. Especially for a beginner who is no doubt playing mainly to him/herself at first. Clear Drops, I don't think we disagree as much as view things from different angles. Price point is an initial indicator of quality, and not a guarantee. If I walk into a store with 1K and try out every fiddle in my price range, the odds are that I won't buy a $200 instrument, and neither would most fiddlers. One's ear generally will lead them to more expensive instruments, with the obvious exception of a rank beginner. When I got my fiddle, I bought the best fiddle(to me, at least) I could in my price range.
"Calm down awildman, it isn't a boxing ring and I am entitled to my opinion also. IMHO." No offense, but what did you expect after the use of the word, "snobbery." (Which was totally not necessary, and a bit OTT, IMO. One can express their opinion without telling somebody else their opinion is snobbery.) When one is labeled as something that they are not, they're bound to take it personally.
,,, gulp! I made a general statement, awildman, not directed at anyone. If you choose to infer that I called you a snob, so be it. It was never my intention . I don't make intentional attacks on people. An unfortunate use of words I guess. I will try to be a bit less OTT in the future (not that I thought I was), but I think you too should be mindful of other peoples' opinions and feelings, a tad less flamable, in my humble opinion.
Good starter fiddle?
Good starter fiddle?
Hey been playin the whistle for 3 years, and the accorian for 2, and decided to start playing the fiddle. Can't really find one online though, or here in North Carolina. Where can I find a good cheap starter violin online?
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by whoawhoa
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Don't know what cheap means to you, but I'd go to http://www.sharmusic.com/ and see what they have w/in the price range you're looking for. Never heard anything bad about them, and I've been pleased w/them so far.
HTH...
...Kevin
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by atftb
Re: Good starter fiddle?
My only word of advice is to say that I think you should buy the best possible fiddle you can afford. Even as a beginner (and especially as one who has played other instruments) you want to hear a nice sound. At least the best you can make.
Nothing is more off-putting than making a horrible noise. As for the investment well if you decide to quit the fiddle you can always on-sell the instrument and providing you paid a fair price there should be little or no money lost.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by Donough
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Hmmmm, I'm looking on the website, and it has a beginning Hoffman violin that says it's meant for to see if you like playing the violin. It must be good quality, because they're not going to sell a crappy violin when you're trying to see if you like playing the violin right? Oh yeah, and what's it talking about sizes? (1/4, 1/8 etc.)?????
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by whoawhoa
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Is this a windup? 4/4 is the size you need if youre an adult - the little sizes are for kiddies - 1/16 etc.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Good starter fiddle?
One thing to remember is as a beginner you'll be making horrible noises no matter what you play. Even if you spend $2000 on a violin it'll still sound like a cracker box for the first year of learning. So i say get the best you can reasonably afford (don''t take food out of your cats mouth; No more than you'd spend on a nice leather coat or new TV) that will hold its value for resale.
OH and as a long time fiddle teacher told me... "Spend your money on the bow !!" a really good bow make all the difference for the beginner. like a good engine in a rusted out car.
Just a option here. Not a recommendation by any means... but something that i did...
If you are the least bit handy in the wood shop do, what I did and get one of those $50 violins they have for sale all the time on eBay.
with a little work and simple tools you can get a half decent fiddle out of them by pulling off the top and replacing the bass bar with something more substantial than the thin little piece of scrap wood they use in the factory. The improvement in sound is amazing! A friend who plays in the local Symphony who played it says he can't believe how good it sounds! (for a 50 buck fiddle.... ;) )
So now I have a decent fiddle for learning on that I'm not embarrassed at all to play at my sessions could easily sell for $250 that i can use until I save up for a good one.
I've built a mandolin and a Ukulele so i consider myself a bit of an amateur luthier but anyone handy could tackle a refit of a fiddle like this. An if you wreck it, you're only out $50 buck and still have the nice case that come with these cheap-o Chinese fiddles.!
If anyone would like details about this fiddle surgery, e-mail me.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by greybeardd
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I started a little over a year ago with one of the outfits from www.folkmusician.com for about 250. It comes with a case and everything you need to get started. The sound is nothing spectacular but decent. I did find that replacing the bow made a huge difference. I have since moved on to a fiddle that has been in my family for awhile and have since restored. I do still play the beginner one from time to time as it just seems easier to play.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by jasten
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Where in North Carolina do you live? I used to live in Greensboro and there are lots of violin makers hidden around. Don't buy a cheapo- you will only wish you hadn't in a year's time, and it might be hard to sell. I'd recommend connecting with the violin/fiddle community; local symphony, music shops, festivals, high schools, etc. Good fiddles are bought and sold all the time but you have to know who to ask.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Good starter fiddle?
What do you mean by cheap? tell us your exact budget. What is cheap to one person is expensive to another.
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by awildman2384
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I'd say around 200 bucks is the limit....
# Posted on August 4th 2008 by whoawhoa
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I'm guessing there are good fiddles around you, but maybe not in obvious places. Get out and find some jams, or some teachers, or go to some festivals - that will lead you to the luthiers who work out of their houses and players who are big collectors of fiddles. I think your best bet is to meet someone with a somewhat battered but good sounding fiddle for a reasonable price. You might also try garage sales, antique stores and pawn shops - I know a few people who've been lucky enough to find something good in those places...
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by airport
Re: Good starter fiddle?
sorry Greg - I see I've just repeated what you said!
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by airport
Re: Good starter fiddle?
If you're new to fiddle, I would suggest having a fiddler friend go with you to a fiddle shop and have him help you pick one. Many reputable shops will give you the full price towards an upgrade later, and most have fiddles in all price ranges. I'd let your friend play them while you listen. I like the idea of getting the best fiddle you can afford, but $200 isn't going to leave you a lot to choose from. If you're not 100% sure, you may want to rent one for a couple months.
Good luck!
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by ElaineP
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Fiddle is probably the only instrument where it doesn't matter that
much how good it is. It's more important to buy good strings and an ok
bow. You can play a $50 fiddle in tune and in rhythm. A $5000 fiddle
won't be any more in tune or in rhythm. If you're not playing for money
or making recordings, what does it matter?
Of course it's a totally different story on accordion, flute etc etc
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Hup
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Hup's right - I read an interview with a Cajun fiddler who learned on a cigar box fiddle he made when he was a kid. He collected broken strings from fiddle players, and his bow was made from a branch and some thread. Most people (or maybe just me) aren't that driven and get frustrated and bored if their instrument is incapable of producing good sounds occasionally. I'd also recommend getting some help with set up so you're operating somewhat ergonomically...
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by airport
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Like the advice above, I'd suggest you take a friend who plays and try out lots of fiddles. You may well find a fiddle that just sounds right to your ear at a reasonable price. Try lots of fiddles, get your friend to try them too - even fiddles waaaaay above your budget... see what they're like and whether your ear can hear any difference between them. Once you get more experienced, you will probably hear differences that you can't distinguish at this stage. Also bear in mind, as described above, that even a good fiddle can have a weak, suboptimal sound if it is not set up well.
I bought a little fiddle (1/8) for my daughter recently - At the music shop they were a little surprised when I kept asking them to keep on bringing out more fiddles to try. As it was, the second fiddle was the one that sounded really nice. My daughter likes it, I think it has a lovely sweet tone, and my daughter's teacher was pleasantly surprised - a late onset accordion player with no musical training (esp fiddle) picking a really nice little instrument.
It probably isn't that hard to do in some ways, but well, I think that the secret is to find an instrument that sounds as pleasing as possible to your ears, as you are able to afford. Something you will be able to grow into, maybe.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Brown Creeper
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Hup, airport, I respectfully disagree. A $50 fiddle just does not have the playability that a $5k fiddle does. All things being equal, a decent setup that makes a fiddle playable sets a minimum price point of about $200. The difference between a $50 and a $200 fiddle is the setup. The difference between a $200 and $5k fiddle is the tone, response, etc. If you want a fiddle that will last several years, you're talking $500+. That will get you a decent setup, as well as give you decent response, reserve, etc. This is all assuming a lot of things. Can a newbie use 5k worth of fiddle right away? Of course not. But they can reach the limits of a $200 fiddle really quick. As for the cigar box thing, most folks would give up in a week or two just from the awful tone. Just like a $50 fiddle.
Of course, one can always buy a $50 fiddle and put $150 worth of setup into it......
IMHO, someone with previous musical experience will outgrow a $50 fiddle before they buy it, and a $200 fiddle within a year or two. YMMV.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by awildman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
you there wildman - you go to any of these sessions here in Portland? I never said a $5000 fiddle sounded like a $50 fiddle, but the best fiddles I've heard that were cheap were one found under a stack of junk in an old antique store in upstate Maine, and one found at an estate sale for $40. The antique store fiddle was $150 and just needed strings. The $40 dollar fiddle needed a bridge and tailpiece. I think it's rare but possible to find something great for $200, but not in a consignment music shop and certainly not in any violin shop. I also totally agree with Brown Creeper that you should trust your guts and ears.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by airport
Re: Good starter fiddle?
... I bought a nice little no label small violin in London for one of my sons when he was about five (he is now 32). They had Suzuki violin lessons available at the school and he and a friend did them together. I can't remember the size of it, except that it was the right size and it had a really nice sound. I used to sometimes play it, but my fingers were a tad too big. He played in London and then for a while in Oz until his Aussie Suzuki teacher was having a baby and handed her pupils over to someone who expected even the little kiddywinks to read dots. The end of that. I sold it to a music shop for an enormous profit and that's all I can remember, long time ago, and thought, after their cut, it would be very expensive to buy. There obviously was a market for such an instrument.
I agree with Hup. No point in spending big money when you're starting out. The set up is the important thing I recon. Some of the Chinese violins are really good value if you replace the cheap plastic parts, fit good strings, and get them set up properly IMHO. I'm playing one at the moment and I'm really happy with it (though I've also got a few oldies as well, I've become a bit of a collector ... love 'em). ... and yep I agree with Brown Creeper too ... be led by your ears. My purse wouldn't cover a made for me especially violin, and quite frankly I couldn't justify it either.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
... and the two posts before mine are cross posts.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
airport, I do go to the occasional session, but only to listen. I'm too new to join in at most of them-2.5 years for me now, and some downtime in there from injuries. (besides, I'm not a very social person) I have played at Sarah C's house session once, and am planning on going this Friday again. That is more my speed.
My post above was about new fiddles, mainly. There are, of course, many gems to be found in attics and such, but a newbie wouldn't know what to look for. I think it's important for a beginner to have an instrument that is playable in terms of string height, action, response, pegs that actually work and such. Tone is less important for a year or two.
The advice to bring a friend along is worth its weight in gold.
I started out on a $1k fiddle, and haven't regretted it a bit.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by awildman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
that was exactly my point about consignment fiddles, Clear Drops - once the shop gets their cut it's no bargain, although you might find a really good instrument that way. How about the pizza session wildman? it's a good mix of abilities - lots of songs too. The pizza's good, and the conversation's minimal. Maybe I'll see you up there sometime...
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by airport
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I have actually bought 2 ebay fiddles as well as several more expensive ones. A lot of my friends say they sound good for forty dollars. However, as they are press board, the sound does not carry well. You have to put tons of effort in it in order to draw the tone out. I also think the the notes do not vibrate well in the belly of the instrument. The main thing these instruments are good for is you can take it anywhere you want without risking losing a great deal of money or a valuable instrument. In fact, I recently took my better sounding ebay fiddles to a lake and played at the waterfalls, which was cool. If I had my good fiddle with me, I would have never dared take it because I could have fallen off the rocks, etc.
I also bought a fiddle for about $200-$300, but it didn't really sound much better than the ebay ones.
Sound is the best thing to go by. Also the sound will be different under your ear than when you hear someone else play it.
Regarding the ebay fiddles, it only took a few months for my fiddle teacher to ask me at each lesson, when are you going to get a better sounding fiddle.
Also, when you are first starting out, the better fiddle you have, the easier it will be to learn. One good thing to look for is a fiddle that is easy to bow. That way you won't have to put as much effort into bowing and can focus more on learning.
I would say to start with an instrument that is hand-carved. It will make a big, big difference.
Hope it goes well with your search.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by enirehtac
Re: Good starter fiddle?
My original Lark (cost then 21 English pounds) did me over 30 years without needing repairs, but now it does, it isn't worth mending. When I started, my Irish trad teacher used to play it himself. When he played it, it sounded bluudy radical. Its not the fiddle, its the player. It was good value, good enough for me.
... but now my fiddle collection is up to six. The Chinese one I'm playing now is handmade and definitely not of "pressed wood", although the old timber may well be recycled. I bought it as a stop gap till the old Mittenwald girl was repaired (its repaired but still away in Canberra), but I really like it. I hate these generalisations that put things down. Not all Chinese fiddles are factory made crap ... and ... Yep, I question that consignment fiddles are worth what you end up paying for them, because the shop takes its cut.
They certainly aren't bargains, and what is wrong with being lead by your heart? on such matters. Heavens, all you need from an instrument is that it does what you require and you enjoy playing it. I'm no Andre Rieu (thank goodness!) ... and some of my fiddles are amazing (to my ears) ... just love 'em. ... but then if you must be able to say that you paid $1k for your fiddle, then I guess you must ... but its a kind of snobbery that I don't buy into myself.
# Posted on August 5th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I'm confused. How exactly does saying my fiddle cost $1k constitute snobbery? Did I say anywhere that I was better than anybody else? Where did I say that unless somebody bought a $1k fiddle they were lesser than me?
Really, do you have any idea what a thousand dollars means to me and what I've had to sacrifice to have a decent instrument?
If having a different opinion than yourself makes me a snob, than so be it.
BTW, what percentage of folks who start on a $40 Chinese factory special stick with it? 10%? 5%? 2%? There are a lot of points in this thread I agree with, but starting out on a piece of crap instrument is not one of those points.
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by awildman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Like most people are saying there isn't much point in spending a lot on a fiddle at first unless you're sure that you want to continue playing. Losing $200 dollars compared to $500 is a lot easier to deal with!
A lot of people in my school start on Stentor fiddles and to be honest if you put a decent set of strings on to a Stentor Conservatoire it sounds a lot better. I think they're maybe just a wee bit more than $200 dollars however.
But either way, you don't have to keep the fiddle you buy just now forever!
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by creathana
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Hmm - I agree with awildman here, I think its better to spend a bit of money and get a nice fiddle. In terms of fiddles $1000 really isnt that much, and its an investment..or you can sell it on again later. I think it makes a difference starting on a nice instrument instead of a crappy one. I personally cannot stand the sound of chinese cheapies -someone may as well be scratching their fingernails on a chalk board.
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by bb
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Mine retails for $A850 but I got it by trading in a viola bow
that somebody sold me years ago along with one of those $50
fiddles. He thought he was ripping me off, but I think I got the
better of him in the end; he had no idea what that viola bow was
worth.
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by Hup
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Everybody knows somebody who paid eighty bucks for a fiddle that turned out to be really nice, but for each “somebody,” there are probably fifty someotherbodies who paid eighty bucks and got a nice piece of junk. Yes, there are some great bargains lurking out there, but they are rare and are likely to be grabbed by experienced players or dealers, not by the typical student in need of a beginner’s fiddle.
Whoawhoa, does your $200 limit include allowance for the bow?
# Posted on August 6th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Good starter fiddle?
... as I said, its the player
... and also:
"... be led by your ears. My purse wouldn't cover a made for me especially violin, and quite frankly I couldn't justify it either."
... infer that as you will
.
# Posted on August 7th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Of course it's the player. And if the PLAYER can't stand the sound coming from their crap violin, they won't PLAY at it very long. If the PLAYER can't stand the 4mm string height at the nut, they won't PLAY at it very long. A PLAYER needs a PLAYABLE instrument. The PLAYER who sticks with it is the exception to the rule, not the rule. The cost can range from free to priceless. Price is the result of materials, time, and skill. With new instruments, this results in a minimum price point, generally speaking of course. Simple ecomonics. In my opinion, with a decent setup, that price point in the US is about $200, closer to $300 for the whole outfit.
How is someone with a $200 budget going to be able to be led by their ears? If the choices are slim and none, the obvious choice is slim. And if, as was originally asked, bought online, where does the ear enter the equation at all?
# Posted on August 7th 2008 by awildman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Calm down awildman, it isn't a boxing ring and I am entitled to my opinion also. IMHO.
# Posted on August 7th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
whoawhoa, if you have got on fine with your other instruments and are not just moving from instrument to instrument leaving each one behind as you go (not suggesting that, just trying to give balanced advice) then go for the best instrument you can, within reason. I would say you should avoid bargin basement fiddles.
Unlike guitar, banjo, keys or any other fretted or pre-tuned instrument, instruments like fiddle or pipes will murder you if they are very low quality. If you pay a few hundred dollars remember you can still sell it on if it doesn't work out for you.
The fiddle requires a lot of hard work so you should give yourself the best chance. That means you want the instrument to be in tune with itself. Even open strings can be out of tune. Do try and enlist the help of a friendly quality fiddler and don't buy what you think is a bargin with a rush of blood. A good fiddler will at least help you get a decent fiddle that is worth what you pay and can be sold on if you don't get on with it.
# Posted on August 7th 2008 by bogman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
Yep, were I to have my life over, I wouldn't have started on the Lark, but it was a present, it was well tweaked, and had I not been given it, I wouldn't have ever played fiddle or got interested in Irish trad. The fiddle came first. There are cheap ones, not necessarily Chinese, that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole ... and I have heard a few $1k+ violins that I wouldn't touch for anything either. The price does not necessarily correlate and is not the important consideration, IMHO.
# Posted on August 8th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
I seem to remember being told by some kind of experiment being conducted in a music school where a range of instruments were played by the same professional player, the same tune, behind a curtain, and a group of people were given the task of ranking the violins according to price range, and they couldn't do it.
# Posted on August 8th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
"about" not "by"
# Posted on August 8th 2008 by Clear Drops
Re: Good starter fiddle?
True all that, but the sound under your ear is at least as important as the sound 30 feet away. Especially for a beginner who is no doubt playing mainly to him/herself at first. Clear Drops, I don't think we disagree as much as view things from different angles. Price point is an initial indicator of quality, and not a guarantee. If I walk into a store with 1K and try out every fiddle in my price range, the odds are that I won't buy a $200 instrument, and neither would most fiddlers. One's ear generally will lead them to more expensive instruments, with the obvious exception of a rank beginner. When I got my fiddle, I bought the best fiddle(to me, at least) I could in my price range.
"Calm down awildman, it isn't a boxing ring and I am entitled to my opinion also. IMHO." No offense, but what did you expect after the use of the word, "snobbery." (Which was totally not necessary, and a bit OTT, IMO. One can express their opinion without telling somebody else their opinion is snobbery.) When one is labeled as something that they are not, they're bound to take it personally.
Whoawhoa, if you can stretch your budget to around $300, you can get a nice outfit from Giannaviolins. http://fiddlestop.giannaviolins.com/fiddles/model50.html
# Posted on August 9th 2008 by awildman
Re: Good starter fiddle?
,,, gulp! I made a general statement, awildman, not directed at anyone. If you choose to infer that I called you a snob, so be it. It was never my intention
. I don't make intentional attacks on people. An unfortunate use of words I guess. I will try to be a bit less OTT 
in the future (not that I thought I was), but I think you too should be mindful of other peoples' opinions and feelings, a tad less flamable, in my humble opinion.
# Posted on August 10th 2008 by Clear Drops