Alright, so I've been playing mandolin over a year now and I'm planning on getting a tenor banjo as well. My main question about the tenor is does it have essentially the same fingerings as mandolin if one tunes it to GDAE versus CGDA? For example chords, in tablature, etc. Although does one tuning compliment the sound of the tenor more? Also just for the sake of knowing does anyone know what tuning Andy M. Stewart used?
Also, GDAE tuning gives the deeper sound that is most associated with IRISH tenor banjo, which is quite different to the CGDA Dixieland tuning, which, in my opinion, for want of a better likeness, sounds like a chicken.
Playing tenor banjo and mandolin can complement each other nicely. If you tune them the same, playing one can help you with playing the other, at least as far as fingering goes. As you progress, you will find that your styles on the two instruments will diverge. (Or they *should*, at least. If you play them the same, then you're missing some of the nuances of both instruments)
As far as playing chords on tenor banjo - don't. There is no "never" in this music, but if you're trying to accompany the music, please don't do it on banjo...
I was only listening to 'Fierce Traditional' this morning with McGrath backing on tenor banjo. Love it. Incidentally, he plays Mike Flanagans banjo on that recording....You will also hear this style on Flanagan Brothers recordings.
As has already been said, the GDAE tuning is the one that you need for ITM. But bear in mind that this is one octave below your mandolin, so you will be stretching your fingers a lot further. However, it doesn’t take long to get used to this.
As the tenor banjo is not a mainstream instrument, sets of replacements strings tend to be available only from specialist music shops. The secret is to use custom guitar strings, which are available from almost all outlets. Another advantage of this approach is that it allows you experiment with different string gauges and types until you find the ones that suit both you and your banjo. Ball-ended strings are much more readily available than loop-end ended strings, so when choosing your instrument make sure that it can accept the ball-ended type – or preferably, both types.
Another thing to consider is scale length – 17-fret and 19-fret being the most common scale lengths. 17-fret is slightly easier to play, but 19-fret arguably delivers a better tone.
Whatever you buy, eventually you will have to replace the head. So before buying, make sure that the diameter of the head is of a standard size that’s easily obtainable. This is more likely to be an issue if you are buying a vintage instrument.
Soft fabric cases don’t protect your instrument properly, so factor into your budget the cost of a hard case. Make sure that a suitably-sized case is available before you buy your instrument. Do you want a banjo with or without a resonator? Again, decide this at the outset, as it will determine the size of the case that you will need.
I wish you well with your new instrument. Feel free to drop me an email if you need to know anything more!
Chords or no chords? That depends. If by "chords", you mean strumming a chordal accompaniment with close harmony tuning (rather than playing the melody) I would say definitely not.
It is however possible to play melody, and intersperse chords as well - at points in the tune where emphasis is needed. This works especially well with polkas. Not necessarily four-note chords either. Two or three-note chords can also be used -particulary in modal tunes.
Hugo, I have heard the occasional decent backing on banjo. But in general, it really grates on my nerves.
I do a fair amount of the double stops and such that Mix is talking about. And occasionally, I'll pop out a full chord, just for effect. But IMO, banjos rarely sound good strummed, especially further up the neck.
I´ve been experimenting a lot with different tunings and I´ve always tried to steer clear of `ways it has to be done because it´s ITM´. The first banjo I played - decades ago - was the 5string which is usually tuned to an open G chord which gives you D and G as the two lowest strings. When I begam the tenor about a year ago, I tried CGDA and the `traditional´ GDAE. From talking to lots of American old time and bluegrass musicians I got the impression that they felt tradition is what you make of it - and anybody who knows a bit about old time mountain 5string banjo playing, knows how endlessly inventive especially the older musicians were when it came to tunings. So I felt free to experiment with tenor tunings in ITM - and found the following, for me at least, the most useful and versatile: DGDA - which is, of course, basically CDGA with the low string tuned one up. It gives you nice possibilities to play double string `chords´ on the two low strings and it makes reaching the high B quite easy
- which also helps to speed up your playing because the fingering is not so difficult. Try it !! I like the sound a lot - and it doesn´t sound like a `chicken´ at all !
I agree with the Reverend on partial passing chords - John Carty, for one, uses them to great good effect. Strumming is never appropriate, in my opinion. Incidentally, 17 fret and 19 fret are not really useful designations of scale length. My 17 fret banjo has a scale length of 22.1", less than an inch shorter than my 19 fretter. Why? Because it has a 12" head. Head size and bridge placement are also relevant factors.
my advice for what it's worth after nearly 40 years of wrestling with tenor banjos
if you are thinking of a new instrument then buy the best american banjo you can afford and buy it from an outfit that will set it up properly otherwise you'll waste a large slice of your life learning how to make it playable before ever getting stuck into the music which is what it's really about.
beware second hand banjos and private sales - you can be sold a pile of overpriced cr*p by someone who's so genuinely ignorant they honestly think they're doing you a favour.
both these worst cases happened to me although it only put me off the instrument for a mere decade.
both gdae and cgda and any other tunings are great
Reverend
you can think what you like, but Barney mckenna just demonstrated how to use chords on a tenor banjo,if youdont like it,well I dont care a fiddlers fart.
as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating ,
to my ears,Reverend
Barney Mckennas lead[and his chord playing] sounds very accomplished.yours with reverence.Dick Miles
I play chords on tenor banjo.
All the feckin time.
I like it. I do it in my own session. Though I wouldn't at someone elses, so that may say something...
If you are coming to the music new, don't work on chords yet. Learn the tunes and the techniques. When you have developed that, then you can develop your style wich should have natuarlly been developing. If you're happy with that, play whatever the hell you want.
But a huge part, is if the people you play with like it (in this case banjo chords) too, and whether or not your style suits with theirs. I'd be way more interested into looking into that as a debate, rather than in terms of 'nevers' and 'appropriate'ness..
***
Look at John Carty play the Sligo maid on the Geantrai DVD - oh my god - CHORDS - LOTS OF THEM.
...I've a feeling it now may magically become appropriate..
I was mostly referring to straight "backing" on banjo, not putting double stops and chords in to punctuate a tune. Carty is a master of the double stop and chords as punctuation. And I do a fair amount of that, as I mentioned.
Barny's chord accompaniment toward the end of My Love is in America is fine, but I prefer it when he's playing the tune. I was generally trying to steer adriftonthesea away from thinking of the banjo as a backing instrument, since the original question brought up chords and tablature. It's not that it can't be done, and done well (ie, Brian McGrath), but if you're looking to back this music, there are a lot of better choices for instrument than a banjo, IMO.
Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Alright, so I've been playing mandolin over a year now and I'm planning on getting a tenor banjo as well. My main question about the tenor is does it have essentially the same fingerings as mandolin if one tunes it to GDAE versus CGDA? For example chords, in tablature, etc. Although does one tuning compliment the sound of the tenor more? Also just for the sake of knowing does anyone know what tuning Andy M. Stewart used?
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by adriftonthesea
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
many previous discussion here but, yes, tuned GDAE everything translates straight across. many questions will be answered here http://www.mikekeyes.com-a.googlepages.com/irishtenorbanjo
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Dont
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Also, GDAE tuning gives the deeper sound that is most associated with IRISH tenor banjo, which is quite different to the CGDA Dixieland tuning, which, in my opinion, for want of a better likeness, sounds like a chicken.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by camwebby
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Playing tenor banjo and mandolin can complement each other nicely. If you tune them the same, playing one can help you with playing the other, at least as far as fingering goes. As you progress, you will find that your styles on the two instruments will diverge. (Or they *should*, at least. If you play them the same, then you're missing some of the nuances of both instruments)
As far as playing chords on tenor banjo - don't. There is no "never" in this music, but if you're trying to accompany the music, please don't do it on banjo...
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
I disagree Reverend.
I was only listening to 'Fierce Traditional' this morning with McGrath backing on tenor banjo. Love it. Incidentally, he plays Mike Flanagans banjo on that recording....You will also hear this style on Flanagan Brothers recordings.
It's here too http://www.myspace.com/morgamusic
- done to great effect on the polkas
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
As has already been said, the GDAE tuning is the one that you need for ITM. But bear in mind that this is one octave below your mandolin, so you will be stretching your fingers a lot further. However, it doesn’t take long to get used to this.
As the tenor banjo is not a mainstream instrument, sets of replacements strings tend to be available only from specialist music shops. The secret is to use custom guitar strings, which are available from almost all outlets. Another advantage of this approach is that it allows you experiment with different string gauges and types until you find the ones that suit both you and your banjo. Ball-ended strings are much more readily available than loop-end ended strings, so when choosing your instrument make sure that it can accept the ball-ended type – or preferably, both types.
Another thing to consider is scale length – 17-fret and 19-fret being the most common scale lengths. 17-fret is slightly easier to play, but 19-fret arguably delivers a better tone.
Whatever you buy, eventually you will have to replace the head. So before buying, make sure that the diameter of the head is of a standard size that’s easily obtainable. This is more likely to be an issue if you are buying a vintage instrument.
Soft fabric cases don’t protect your instrument properly, so factor into your budget the cost of a hard case. Make sure that a suitably-sized case is available before you buy your instrument. Do you want a banjo with or without a resonator? Again, decide this at the outset, as it will determine the size of the case that you will need.
I wish you well with your new instrument. Feel free to drop me an email if you need to know anything more!
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Chords or no chords? That depends. If by "chords", you mean strumming a chordal accompaniment with close harmony tuning (rather than playing the melody) I would say definitely not.
It is however possible to play melody, and intersperse chords as well - at points in the tune where emphasis is needed. This works especially well with polkas. Not necessarily four-note chords either. Two or three-note chords can also be used -particulary in modal tunes.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Hugo, I have heard the occasional decent backing on banjo. But in general, it really grates on my nerves.
I do a fair amount of the double stops and such that Mix is talking about. And occasionally, I'll pop out a full chord, just for effect. But IMO, banjos rarely sound good strummed, especially further up the neck.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
All good things to take into consideration. Thanks very much for the assistance!
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by adriftonthesea
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
Chord it up.
The more the merrier.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOyvvKLkbCQ
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
I´ve been experimenting a lot with different tunings and I´ve always tried to steer clear of `ways it has to be done because it´s ITM´. The first banjo I played - decades ago - was the 5string which is usually tuned to an open G chord which gives you D and G as the two lowest strings. When I begam the tenor about a year ago, I tried CGDA and the `traditional´ GDAE. From talking to lots of American old time and bluegrass musicians I got the impression that they felt tradition is what you make of it - and anybody who knows a bit about old time mountain 5string banjo playing, knows how endlessly inventive especially the older musicians were when it came to tunings. So I felt free to experiment with tenor tunings in ITM - and found the following, for me at least, the most useful and versatile: DGDA - which is, of course, basically CDGA with the low string tuned one up. It gives you nice possibilities to play double string `chords´ on the two low strings and it makes reaching the high B quite easy
- which also helps to speed up your playing because the fingering is not so difficult. Try it !! I like the sound a lot - and it doesn´t sound like a `chicken´ at all !
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by alexweger
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
I agree with the Reverend on partial passing chords - John Carty, for one, uses them to great good effect. Strumming is never appropriate, in my opinion. Incidentally, 17 fret and 19 fret are not really useful designations of scale length. My 17 fret banjo has a scale length of 22.1", less than an inch shorter than my 19 fretter. Why? Because it has a 12" head. Head size and bridge placement are also relevant factors.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by will morgan
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
my advice for what it's worth after nearly 40 years of wrestling with tenor banjos
if you are thinking of a new instrument then buy the best american banjo you can afford and buy it from an outfit that will set it up properly otherwise you'll waste a large slice of your life learning how to make it playable before ever getting stuck into the music which is what it's really about.
beware second hand banjos and private sales - you can be sold a pile of overpriced cr*p by someone who's so genuinely ignorant they honestly think they're doing you a favour.
both these worst cases happened to me although it only put me off the instrument for a mere decade.
good luck
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by millionyears_bc
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
both gdae and cgda and any other tunings are great
Reverend
you can think what you like, but Barney mckenna just demonstrated how to use chords on a tenor banjo,if youdont like it,well I dont care a fiddlers fart.
as they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating ,
to my ears,Reverend
Barney Mckennas lead[and his chord playing] sounds very accomplished.yours with reverence.Dick Miles
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Rufus Jameson
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
I play chords on tenor banjo.
All the feckin time.
I like it. I do it in my own session. Though I wouldn't at someone elses, so that may say something...
If you are coming to the music new, don't work on chords yet. Learn the tunes and the techniques. When you have developed that, then you can develop your style wich should have natuarlly been developing. If you're happy with that, play whatever the hell you want.
But a huge part, is if the people you play with like it (in this case banjo chords) too, and whether or not your style suits with theirs. I'd be way more interested into looking into that as a debate, rather than in terms of 'nevers' and 'appropriate'ness..
***
Look at John Carty play the Sligo maid on the Geantrai DVD - oh my god - CHORDS - LOTS OF THEM.
...I've a feeling it now may magically become appropriate..
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Just some quck questions about tenor banjo.
I was mostly referring to straight "backing" on banjo, not putting double stops and chords in to punctuate a tune. Carty is a master of the double stop and chords as punctuation. And I do a fair amount of that, as I mentioned.
Barny's chord accompaniment toward the end of My Love is in America is fine, but I prefer it when he's playing the tune. I was generally trying to steer adriftonthesea away from thinking of the banjo as a backing instrument, since the original question brought up chords and tablature. It's not that it can't be done, and done well (ie, Brian McGrath), but if you're looking to back this music, there are a lot of better choices for instrument than a banjo, IMO.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by Reverend