Hi guys,gals!
I just wanted to get your opinion on chin rest's. I stared out with a little spunge held on with elastic. After a while [ about a year] it fell of, and I haven't put a new one back on.So currently I play with nothing.It doe's not bother me.But I am wondering about the future.Will I need one as I grow?I'm 13.Doe's it help your playing if you have one. And who has /had one that they disliked and threw out,and why?!.
Thanks,
Christine
By the way, I'm talking about fiddle chin rest's.haha
I've always played with a chinrest, but then, I started at 25 and have quite a long neck. I'm not so choosy when it comes to chinrests, I use one now that was carved by my wife's former luthier, supposed to suit her chin.... ! I'm OK with it.
You're really talking about a "shoulder rest". Many people don't use them, so if it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it. If you do, I would start by trying as many as possible. Try ones that your friends are using and see what you think. It really is a personal matter. If you're getting pains, then it is a more serious matter.
I've tried several and haven't been 100% with any of them yet. Many don't fit into a violin case very well, and that's a pain, too. A well known fiddler I just took a class from uses a GEWA shoulder pad, and I think I'm going to give that a try.
There are a lot of discussions on this board about the "right" way to hold your fiddle (e.g., the most recent one: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18506). Leaving aside all the great fiddle players who hold their fiddles otherwise, the most *ergonomic* way to support the fiddle is with your neck and shoulder. That is, you shouldn't be holding your fiddle up with your left arm, which creates a lot of tension in your back and shoulder, and is likely to lead to tendonitis down the road. You should be able to wave your left arm around freely while still holding your fiddle comfortably between your chin and shoulder, without tension. You shouldn't need to squeeze your head and shoulder together to keep your fiddle there.
Thus, you should select a chin rest-shoulder rest combination that enables you to do that comfortably. If you can hold your fiddle comfortably and ergonomically without a chin rest, then you probably don't need one. But if your neck, back, or shoulder muscles are tensing at all when you play, maybe you should consider getting one.
I agreewith fiddlebliss- you definitely want to do whatever you can to avoid tension anywhere, which can lead to all kinds of repetitive stress issues, not just tendonitis.
There's also a discussion on shoulder rests going on at the fiddle hangout discussion forum- www.fiddlehangout.com
Take the fiddle into a shop with a few styles and try them until you find one that's comfortable. I currently use a Mach One, because it seems to help my fiddle sound a little more open than the Kun I used to use (and it just so happens that the wood matches the finish on my fiddle almost perfectly- but that was just a bonus )
Hi there,
Thank you so much for all the info. I haven't been getting any pains.But I' just thinking if it will effect the future. talk about embaresment [sp?] SHOULDER
It was once suggested to me that a shoulder rest (not to be confused with a chinrest) that reduces contact between the fiddle and the shoulder may significantly reduce any dampening of sound caused by the instrument being "wedged" between shoulder and neck.
Upon trying one out, I did think I might have detected a slight increase at least in the volume. I am sure someone wiser than me has done an exhaustive study already.
BTW, Fiddle95, if you actually are playing with no chinrest at all, with your face directly against the fiddle, the oils from your skin may eventually damage the instrument.
As already stated above, all of these matters should be resolved when you visit a competent violin dealer.
A competent violin dealer will not only help you to choose a shoulder rest, but will also advise you how to adjust it so that it fits your particular anatomy comfortably and ergonomically.
"if you actually are playing with no chinrest at all, with your face directly against the fiddle, the oils from your skin may eventually damage the instrument."
That's why you put a piece of cloth on the fiddle. I use a microfiber cleaning cloth, which has just enough grip to keep things from sliding around. It's also possible to clean the oils off the varnish periodically, but it's a pain and you'll never really get all of it, and it really isn't good for the varnish to clean it that often anyway.
Damage to the varnish from not using a chin rest or cloth doesn't really hurt the value of the fiddle that much though. It's very common on old fiddles and easily covered up with a chin rest. It's not as bad as letting rosin build up on the belly of the fiddle, which is something I'll never understand.
I tried all kinds of shoulder rests in the begining but found that none were comfortable - so I gave them up. Lots of my friends dont use them either. But then again I know people who do. I reckon its all about what you feel comfortable with.
I have rosin build up on the belly of my fiddle - but it really comes in handy -cause Im always losing my rosin so then I can just rub my bow across it and instantly get rosin.
You can play in first position just fine without one, and some people
can do position shifting without it.
I think it's good to at least practice without one sometimes. A
shoulder rest tends to 'encourage' you to clamp down with your chin,
which is never good. For one thing, the scroll end of the fiddle tends
to be unstable when you do that, which affects your rhythmic
precision amongst other things.
But if you have one, it's easier to tune up - you can adjust your fifths while you're playing, for example. Maybe you can do that without a
shoulder rest, but I'm too chicken to try it out - like riding a bike with
your hands off.
Cruella----second posit. is far more difficult for me than third. (Third posit. is the next logical step from first due to the palm of hand comfortably stopping at the treble shoulder of the fiddle: and since Irish trad is very thin in the flats department, your comment surprises me greatly. I would be interested to hear more on this.
Ok - in fairness I am actually crap at theory, I may not actually mean second position at all....I mean the position you go up to when you want to play high c naturals and sharps, is that 3rd? If so thats what I meant. I dont even know half the notes on the fiddle...sorry for the confusing post.
I use second on Trim the Velvet; our chief fiddler here uses third.
A lot of people just reach up from first.
Violinists use all the positions, including second and the 'half' position.
They don't even think about "positions" after their student days unless
they're teaching.
Cruella--thank you for fessin' up to that, you could have just ducked the whole thing. Nevertheless, I always enjoy your
witticisms and look forward to reading more of them--just chill
on the technical stuff cause it fouls up the beginners, a lot of whom are self taught out of necessity and try to glean every scrap of useful info they can get. (I had to).
Your still tops babe------
Just to further confuse the issue... I can shift to 3rd position as needed, but that's it. First-to-third was the first position shift they introduced us to, in my (very) limited classical exposure. Second position is iffy--just not enough call for it, I suppose--and fourth position is too persnickety (too close for fingering, my intonation goes wonky).
But I have become accustomed to a proper shoulder rest (a Kun) after years of using a folded-up washcloth because it does make for better tone (the shoulder does not muffle it) and it frees up the left hand because I can support the fiddle better without putting a crick in my neck.
Although why anybody should care about all that, I'm not sure. But there it is, just the same.
Fiddle 95 , the one who posted the original post, shouldn't have trouble holding the fiddle properly,. She takes lessons from a well known good fiddler. And she is actually a VERY good fiddler !!!!!!!!! Anyway to get back to the topic Bradley used to play with a "marshmallow sponge" which he got from Remeny house of music, (please correct my spelling on Remeny.) Hope it helps.
Emily
Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hi guys,gals!
I just wanted to get your opinion on chin rest's. I stared out with a little spunge held on with elastic. After a while [ about a year] it fell of, and I haven't put a new one back on.So currently I play with nothing.It doe's not bother me.But I am wondering about the future.Will I need one as I grow?I'm 13.Doe's it help your playing if you have one. And who has /had one that they disliked and threw out,and why?!.
Thanks,
Christine
By the way, I'm talking about fiddle chin rest's.haha
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Fiddle95
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
http://www.stringsmagazine.com/issues/Strings121/yourinstrument.html
Lots of information there.
I've always played with a chinrest, but then, I started at 25 and have quite a long neck. I'm not so choosy when it comes to chinrests, I use one now that was carved by my wife's former luthier, supposed to suit her chin.... ! I'm OK with it.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hi Christine,
You're really talking about a "shoulder rest". Many people don't use them, so if it doesn't bother you, don't worry about it. If you do, I would start by trying as many as possible. Try ones that your friends are using and see what you think. It really is a personal matter. If you're getting pains, then it is a more serious matter.
I've tried several and haven't been 100% with any of them yet. Many don't fit into a violin case very well, and that's a pain, too. A well known fiddler I just took a class from uses a GEWA shoulder pad, and I think I'm going to give that a try.
Good luck...Larry
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by ElaineP
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hi Fiddle95
There are a lot of discussions on this board about the "right" way to hold your fiddle (e.g., the most recent one: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/18506). Leaving aside all the great fiddle players who hold their fiddles otherwise, the most *ergonomic* way to support the fiddle is with your neck and shoulder. That is, you shouldn't be holding your fiddle up with your left arm, which creates a lot of tension in your back and shoulder, and is likely to lead to tendonitis down the road. You should be able to wave your left arm around freely while still holding your fiddle comfortably between your chin and shoulder, without tension. You shouldn't need to squeeze your head and shoulder together to keep your fiddle there.
Thus, you should select a chin rest-shoulder rest combination that enables you to do that comfortably. If you can hold your fiddle comfortably and ergonomically without a chin rest, then you probably don't need one. But if your neck, back, or shoulder muscles are tensing at all when you play, maybe you should consider getting one.
Hope this helps.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by fiddlebliss
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
I agreewith fiddlebliss- you definitely want to do whatever you can to avoid tension anywhere, which can lead to all kinds of repetitive stress issues, not just tendonitis.
There's also a discussion on shoulder rests going on at the fiddle hangout discussion forum- www.fiddlehangout.com
Take the fiddle into a shop with a few styles and try them until you find one that's comfortable. I currently use a Mach One, because it seems to help my fiddle sound a little more open than the Kun I used to use (and it just so happens that the wood matches the finish on my fiddle almost perfectly- but that was just a bonus
)
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by azfiddle
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hi there,
Thank you so much for all the info. I haven't been getting any pains.But I' just thinking if it will effect the future. talk about embaresment [sp?] SHOULDER
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Fiddle95
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
It was once suggested to me that a shoulder rest (not to be confused with a chinrest) that reduces contact between the fiddle and the shoulder may significantly reduce any dampening of sound caused by the instrument being "wedged" between shoulder and neck.
Upon trying one out, I did think I might have detected a slight increase at least in the volume. I am sure someone wiser than me has done an exhaustive study already.
BTW, Fiddle95, if you actually are playing with no chinrest at all, with your face directly against the fiddle, the oils from your skin may eventually damage the instrument.
As already stated above, all of these matters should be resolved when you visit a competent violin dealer.
My two cents.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Rook
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
A competent violin dealer will not only help you to choose a shoulder rest, but will also advise you how to adjust it so that it fits your particular anatomy comfortably and ergonomically.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
"if you actually are playing with no chinrest at all, with your face directly against the fiddle, the oils from your skin may eventually damage the instrument."
That's why you put a piece of cloth on the fiddle. I use a microfiber cleaning cloth, which has just enough grip to keep things from sliding around. It's also possible to clean the oils off the varnish periodically, but it's a pain and you'll never really get all of it, and it really isn't good for the varnish to clean it that often anyway.
Damage to the varnish from not using a chin rest or cloth doesn't really hurt the value of the fiddle that much though. It's very common on old fiddles and easily covered up with a chin rest. It's not as bad as letting rosin build up on the belly of the fiddle, which is something I'll never understand.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
I tried all kinds of shoulder rests in the begining but found that none were comfortable - so I gave them up. Lots of my friends dont use them either. But then again I know people who do. I reckon its all about what you feel comfortable with.
I have rosin build up on the belly of my fiddle - but it really comes in handy -cause Im always losing my rosin so then I can just rub my bow across it and instantly get rosin.
# Posted on July 27th 2008 by bb
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
You can play in first position just fine without one, and some people
can do position shifting without it.
I think it's good to at least practice without one sometimes. A
shoulder rest tends to 'encourage' you to clamp down with your chin,
which is never good. For one thing, the scroll end of the fiddle tends
to be unstable when you do that, which affects your rhythmic
precision amongst other things.
But if you have one, it's easier to tune up - you can adjust your fifths while you're playing, for example. Maybe you can do that without a
shoulder rest, but I'm too chicken to try it out - like riding a bike with
your hands off.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Hup
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
The people I know can all shift to second position....not sure about 3rd - but who would ever need 3rd in trad?
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by bb
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Cruella----second posit. is far more difficult for me than third. (Third posit. is the next logical step from first due to the palm of hand comfortably stopping at the treble shoulder of the fiddle: and since Irish trad is very thin in the flats department, your comment surprises me greatly. I would be interested to hear more on this.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by hauke
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Ok - in fairness I am actually crap at theory, I may not actually mean second position at all....I mean the position you go up to when you want to play high c naturals and sharps, is that 3rd? If so thats what I meant. I dont even know half the notes on the fiddle...sorry for the confusing post.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by bb
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
I use second on Trim the Velvet; our chief fiddler here uses third.
A lot of people just reach up from first.
Violinists use all the positions, including second and the 'half' position.
They don't even think about "positions" after their student days unless
they're teaching.
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Hup
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Cruella--thank you for fessin' up to that, you could have just ducked the whole thing. Nevertheless, I always enjoy your
witticisms and look forward to reading more of them--just chill
on the technical stuff cause it fouls up the beginners, a lot of whom are self taught out of necessity and try to glean every scrap of useful info they can get. (I had to).
Your still tops babe------
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by hauke
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hauke - why should bb 'chill' on the technical stuff, or anything ... ?
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by Hup
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Hmmm - thanks I think! I was merely trying to point out that you can play irish trad completley fine without a chin rest.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by bb
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Shoulder rest...here we go again
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by bb
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Just to further confuse the issue... I can shift to 3rd position as needed, but that's it. First-to-third was the first position shift they introduced us to, in my (very) limited classical exposure. Second position is iffy--just not enough call for it, I suppose--and fourth position is too persnickety (too close for fingering, my intonation goes wonky).
But I have become accustomed to a proper shoulder rest (a Kun) after years of using a folded-up washcloth because it does make for better tone (the shoulder does not muffle it) and it frees up the left hand because I can support the fiddle better without putting a crick in my neck.
Although why anybody should care about all that, I'm not sure. But there it is, just the same.
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by mickray
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Fiddle 95 , the one who posted the original post, shouldn't have trouble holding the fiddle properly,. She takes lessons from a well known good fiddler. And she is actually a VERY good fiddler !!!!!!!!! Anyway to get back to the topic Bradley used to play with a "marshmallow sponge" which he got from Remeny house of music, (please correct my spelling on Remeny.) Hope it helps.
Emily
# Posted on July 29th 2008 by Dialed4Life
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Nice name!!!!!!!!!
I think the name is actualy spelt Remyni {sp?}hahaha
Thanks,
Tin Tin
# Posted on August 1st 2008 by Fiddle95
Re: Chin Rest for Fiddles/Violins
Thanks!!!!!!!
Ya, I knew that the spelling was wrong, but I couldn't remember how to spell it!! Thanks!!
See ya.
Kittie
# Posted on August 1st 2008 by Dialed4Life