Has anyone any thoughts and even bettter, experience of the relative merits and disadvantages of a flat fretboard as opposed to radius or the opposite?
I prefer a radiused fingerboard on mandolin because it feels more like a fiddle (my main instrument). But the radius is very slight on such a small scale instrument.
For a 12" inch radius, you draw a circle with a 12-inch radius (half the diameter). Slice a piece of arc the width of your fingerboard from that circle, and you have a "12-inch radius fingerboard."
The smaller the number, the tighter the arc.
Whether you prefer flat or radiused, and which radius you like best, is mostly personal feel.
Flat fingerboards are somewhat easier to dress, refret, etc. But any competent luthier can deal with either flat or radiused.
P.S. My Weber Absaroka has a 10-inch radiused fingerboard. Weber also offers an 8-inch radius.
If you want to see the difference in arc between the options available, simply draw a cross-section by drawing circles with 8", 10", and 12" radii on paper, and then marking a piece of the arcs equal to the width of your fingerboard at the nut.
I’ve always found a 12-14 inch radius more comfortable for chording on the guitar, especially barre chords. I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone, except Nate, express a preference for a flat fingerboard for chording. The wider the neck, the more I’m bothered by flatness. Classical guitar necks tend to be wide and flat, but the strings are a lot easier to fret, so it doesn’t matter so much. But even there I’d probably like maybe 18 inches of radius.
Aside from chording, a bit of curvature can also make it a little easier to do fingerings that stretch across several strings, since the outer strings are slightly less likely to get in the way.
Now that I think about it, I remember comparing two mandolins, one flat and the other with a visible radius (maybe 8 - 10 inches). I found it easier to finger notes on the radiused fingerboard, and I think it was because the adjacent strings were not so much in the way.
I recently had my teens Gibson A-2 re-fretted, and my luthier suggested radiusing the fretboard. I don't regret it. You really don't think about it after you play it for five minutes the first times. I definitely recommend it, if you are having an instrument made.
Martin guitars normally have a 16” radius. As far as I know, anything else is a custom order, except for a few special “Artist” models. My Lowden came with a 16” radius, but I had it redone to 14”. I’m not sure, but I think most of the Martin clones (Collings, etc.) also come standard with 16”. Gibsons seem more likely to be 12”.
A 16” radius looks flat to somebody passing by on a bicycle (or unicycle), but if you look down the length of a fret, you can see the arc.
It seems odd that until recent decades, so little attention was paid to the radius of fretted necks.
Some of the Clifford Essex Concert Grand banjos came with radiused neck - a flat/radiused neck won't make anywhere near as significant impact on your playing as just practising throughly.
I believe I learned something here on the mustard board yesterday,...
All my guitars with metal strings have radiused fingerboards!
After 35 years I finally noticed
When I first thought of radiused finger boards, I didn't know what instrument the poster was asking about, so I was thinking in a general sense. Sort of "the whole gamut of stringed things"
I thought of the fingerboards on my fiddle and upright bass vs. the fingerboards on guitars and banjos.
It's much the same way that we all thought the Earth was flat for such a long time
This radiused fingerboard had me thinking and
while I was playing last night, I started to think about what Will said about the definiton of the radius and thought about how slender an arc that could be.
then I took a good long look at my guitar and....
So all non-Euclidian algorithms aside, there seems to actually be a slight roundness to these fingerboards that I hadn't really noticed.
So I guess what I said about it being easier to play chords on a flat neck must have sounded pretty crazy.
Who would have thought that after all these years there was still something about guitars that I never noticed, and it was right under my fingers all the time
Well, I think I had been playing for 18-20 years before I was aware of the radius issue. When I started hanging out with luthiers, I started learning a lot about my instruments.
Just procured an Eastman 804--2 pointer witha 12" rad. board. Soooooo easy to play But not so good for bluegrass
chopping----great for all else & I like all else !
Radius V Flat Fretboard
Radius V Flat Fretboard
Has anyone any thoughts and even bettter, experience of the relative merits and disadvantages of a flat fretboard as opposed to radius or the opposite?
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
On which instrument?
I prefer a radiused fingerboard on mandolin because it feels more like a fiddle (my main instrument). But the radius is very slight on such a small scale instrument.
I like flat on banjo, but I don't know why.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
I think flat fingerboards are easier to play chords on
maybe radiused fingerboards are primarily for melodic instruments?
there is probably some threashold for the width of the neck where over a certain width, a radiused fingerboard becomes less practical.
that could be what's behind it,
maybe some instrument makers could say something about that
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Yes Will, mandolin. I believe most makers call it a 12" radius. Whatever that means !!
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
For a 12" inch radius, you draw a circle with a 12-inch radius (half the diameter). Slice a piece of arc the width of your fingerboard from that circle, and you have a "12-inch radius fingerboard."
The smaller the number, the tighter the arc.
Whether you prefer flat or radiused, and which radius you like best, is mostly personal feel.
Flat fingerboards are somewhat easier to dress, refret, etc. But any competent luthier can deal with either flat or radiused.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
P.S. My Weber Absaroka has a 10-inch radiused fingerboard. Weber also offers an 8-inch radius.
If you want to see the difference in arc between the options available, simply draw a cross-section by drawing circles with 8", 10", and 12" radii on paper, and then marking a piece of the arcs equal to the width of your fingerboard at the nut.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
I’ve always found a 12-14 inch radius more comfortable for chording on the guitar, especially barre chords. I’m not sure I’ve heard anyone, except Nate, express a preference for a flat fingerboard for chording. The wider the neck, the more I’m bothered by flatness. Classical guitar necks tend to be wide and flat, but the strings are a lot easier to fret, so it doesn’t matter so much. But even there I’d probably like maybe 18 inches of radius.
Aside from chording, a bit of curvature can also make it a little easier to do fingerings that stretch across several strings, since the outer strings are slightly less likely to get in the way.
Now that I think about it, I remember comparing two mandolins, one flat and the other with a visible radius (maybe 8 - 10 inches). I found it easier to finger notes on the radiused fingerboard, and I think it was because the adjacent strings were not so much in the way.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
I recently had my teens Gibson A-2 re-fretted, and my luthier suggested radiusing the fretboard. I don't regret it. You really don't think about it after you play it for five minutes the first times. I definitely recommend it, if you are having an instrument made.
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Radius 12. For guitar anyway. It's the usual for steel string, mainly because it's what most people must like!
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by irisnevins
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
"Radius 12. For guitar anyway. It's the usual for steel string, "
ok, I'm curious about this....
my classical guitar is flat. naturally.
But my accoustic steel string cowboy guitars are also flat
my vintage Gibson hollowbody jazz guitar seems to be flat (at least to me)
I've played radiused fingerboards on Fender Guitars, but I swear my '58 Les Paul was a flat fingerboard.
Are you saying that I've been playing 12" radiused fingerboards all this time and not noticed something like that?
Seriously, I can accept that I'm wrong here, but most guitars I've played seemed to have flat fingerboards.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Nate, my hunch is that radiused fingerboards are more common than they used to be. Vintage guitars are more likely to have flat fingerboards.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Martin guitars normally have a 16” radius. As far as I know, anything else is a custom order, except for a few special “Artist” models. My Lowden came with a 16” radius, but I had it redone to 14”. I’m not sure, but I think most of the Martin clones (Collings, etc.) also come standard with 16”. Gibsons seem more likely to be 12”.
A 16” radius looks flat to somebody passing by on a bicycle (or unicycle), but if you look down the length of a fret, you can see the arc.
It seems odd that until recent decades, so little attention was paid to the radius of fretted necks.
# Posted on July 23rd 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Embergher mandolins had a radiused finger board, and are considered one of the best mandolins you can get for classical music:
http://www.embergher.com/index.php?id=65
Some of the Clifford Essex Concert Grand banjos came with radiused neck - a flat/radiused neck won't make anywhere near as significant impact on your playing as just practising throughly.
# Posted on July 24th 2008 by WorzelGummidge
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
I believe I learned something here on the mustard board yesterday,...
All my guitars with metal strings have radiused fingerboards!
After 35 years I finally noticed
When I first thought of radiused finger boards, I didn't know what instrument the poster was asking about, so I was thinking in a general sense. Sort of "the whole gamut of stringed things"
I thought of the fingerboards on my fiddle and upright bass vs. the fingerboards on guitars and banjos.
It's much the same way that we all thought the Earth was flat for such a long time
This radiused fingerboard had me thinking and
while I was playing last night, I started to think about what Will said about the definiton of the radius and thought about how slender an arc that could be.
then I took a good long look at my guitar and....
So all non-Euclidian algorithms aside, there seems to actually be a slight roundness to these fingerboards that I hadn't really noticed.
So I guess what I said about it being easier to play chords on a flat neck must have sounded pretty crazy.
Who would have thought that after all these years there was still something about guitars that I never noticed, and it was right under my fingers all the time
# Posted on July 24th 2008 by Nate Ryan
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
LOL, Nate, welcome to the radiused world!
# Posted on July 24th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Well, I think I had been playing for 18-20 years before I was aware of the radius issue. When I started hanging out with luthiers, I started learning a lot about my instruments.
# Posted on July 24th 2008 by Bob himself
Re: Radius V Flat Fretboard
Just procured an Eastman 804--2 pointer witha 12" rad. board. Soooooo easy to play But not so good for bluegrass
chopping----great for all else & I like all else !
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by hauke