...well I had my very first lesson yesterday and the instructor told me to learn "the rolling waves" by having in mind "the way it sounds on the CD" he left me ("in good company" from Kevin Crawford).
Too bad "the CD" plays that song on the flute and I'm learning to play the whistle at first... and well, I'm such a beginner that having the CD playing in... "my right octave" would help my ear quite a big lot.
ALSO, and perhaps more important, I'd love to slow down that darn thing and listen carefully and lovely note by note; so that I can compare it with what I can sound AND with the edition of the Jig published here on "the session", to see if they'r exactly the same and I can also use that score as a reference or if they differ somehow.
First of it all: I _already_ tried Audacity. I love free software and I'm a fan of open source, but this tool plain sucks for this purpose. If I try to slow down the song half the speed the result is "scattering" and "flickering" - sorry, I'm pretty sure those are NOT the right english words for what I hear, but I hope you got the sense of it.
Same if I try to raise the pitch. A whole octave is not present in the drop down menu, but it let me choose freely how many semitones raise it up. I choose of course twelve; same, hem, scatter and flicker. Nothing actually listenable, not even for didactic purpose as I would like to. It seems to listen to a radio station in a place where it cant' catch the signal well, almost.
It's only me, to experiment those behaviours with Audacity? Am I trying to push the changes way too much? Or as I FEAR it is just that Audacity is a lot limited and can you please suggest me a high level software to consider buying, which would do the job as a charm, plain, perfectly and lovely?
Well, thank you all so much for reading up to this point and for sharing your experience and thoughs.
1. Load your file into Audacity. Use the pitch change to fix the pitch. (Note that this step DOES NOT change the speed.) I would not use this to try to move more than a few whole steps, as it starts sounding bad. When you have the pitch where you like it, export to a new MP3 file.
2. Load this MP3 file into Windows Media Player and use the speed settings to change the speed. You can go as slow as half speed. It sounds good enough to learn from at half speed but it is not pretty.
Too bad what I actually need about the pitch IS to put it up 12 steps, no one less, or it would even be worse than leaving it "as is" for learning and comparison purposes.
About the speed, what I'm looking for is something to slow WAY down... WITHOUT having it sound "not pretty" as you too recognize.
I'll consider amazing slow downer for that. I've seen I can try-before-buy so I'll let you know for other's sake if I founded it adequate.
Now about the PITCH. Any tought about a way to raise a music file up of an octave - and having it still playing fine?
the standard version of quicktime does this now quite nicely... just open the mp3, then open the av controls from the window pull down, and voila.... i just discovered this a couple of days ago, but it works quite nicely.
I've been using quicktime too - for videos also - but I don't think it will change the pitch a whole octave. Maybe you could have your instructor record it in the correct key for you? Or find something else that's in a good whistle key and learn that? It won't take you long to get to the point where octaves are easy for you, so don't invest too much money!
Bear in mind that the tune Crawford plays on In Good Company under the name The Rolling Waves is different from another jig widely known by the same name. And that Crawford's "Rolling Waves" goes by the name The Humours of Trim at least as far back as O'Neill's. You might find a whistle recording of it under that name.
Learning to transfer a tune from an octave below to your whistle is a useful skill to acquire. There shouldn't be any problem playing along with it, and no need to change the pitch to match your own playing. Learning to listen is one of the most essential aspects of playing music, eh?
There's something important to think about and take into account when artificially slowing down this music and that is the twiddley bits.
No matter how slow you'd be playing tunes in the real world, the speed of cuts and taps will remain pretty steady. This is because they are not really notes in their own right, but actually percussive interruptions to other notes. When you slow the tune down with your computer, these percussive interruptions loose their character and begin to sound like notes in them selves. Don't copy this, it's wrong.
crazy-fingerz - don't understand why you use a two program process because Audacity has three options:
Change Pitch - changes the pitch, keeps the speed
Change Speed - changes the speed, changes the pitch
Change Tempo - changes the speed, keeps the pitch.
The can be applied one after the other so Change Pitch and then Change Tempo.
I see what you mean. I just tried it myself on another tune and got a very high pitched distortion and static sound. It seems that Audacity can't handle changing the pitch by an octave without creating these horrible noises.
I've recently downloaded Transcribe and I'm very happy with it.
It can change pitch by whole octaves right down to fractions of a semitone so you can exactly match the cd to your whistle.
You can vary speed from 1 - 100% and a really useful feature - you can select a section ( or even one bar) and loop it to keep playing just the selection at your chosen speed until you have learned it.
It costs $50 US but you get a 30 day free trial which I am in the middle of now.
I found out about it on tTranscribe on these youtube videos from tradlessons.com: http://youtube.com/watch?v=rY846dfCrv0 http://youtube.com/watch?v=4PpuBWeheYA
Have a look - I think you'll like it
Ive used the Amazing Slow Downer on mac and pc and it always crashes on my Mac - anyone else have the same experience? On the pc it works good. A bit overpriced though i think.
Thanks for the quicktime tip - i never new that! Its not pretty but it works.
goldfrog -- I change the pitch to "retune" recording where they are playing in oddball tunings. Like E-flat Dannan, etc.
I use the speed control in WMP to slow down the retuned MP3s while I am first learning from them. But once I have the skeleton, I try to learn it at full speed so I get the right feel.
So the retuning is permanent, but the slowdown is temporary. Hence the 2 different methods.
If there was a recording that was just too fast, I would slow it down within Audacity and save out a new slowed down MP3. I realize I can do this, it's just not something I have ever wanted to do.
Anyhow, this is just my method for learning...YMMV.
Before you give up with Audacity try ripping to a WAV file not an MP3. Some of what you are hearing after the pitch or tempo change are probably compression artifacts in the MP3. It works fine for me. But yes, if its a whole octave why bother ?
connect a light dimmer to the power source of the cd player and wear a pair of shoes with rubber soles. Make sure you know where the fuse box to your house is and call the city before you dig. I jest of course.
Don't care much for Audacity. Slow Downer or Reaper, Pro Tools, Acid 6 when I'm adventurous.
Thanks all.
@ david_h: the mp3/wav thing is not an issue, since when you import any file in Audacity it decompress the waveform so that it can work on it without any compression issue.
@ llig leahcim: I know that ornamentations are not grace NOTES by themselves and slowing a tune can be misleading in that sense but I'm some step beyond that for now. What I'm lookin for now is just to pick up the right notes on the whistle, and being able to check that the scores I have are OK too; if not, adapt them.
And most important, @ Will CPT: I feel the importance to listen and understand music even in different register, just learning to recognize INTERVALS between each note. That would be a great skill to acquire and have. But as I said, I am a very beginner though, so that's a problem for me and I'd want to step into the listening and identify thing gradually, beginning from what's closest (if not idenctical) to what *I* can play myself on my instrument.
I will check the softwares and the tips you all suggested. And I'll suddenly check "The Humours of Trim" scores as suggested by Will CPT, indeed.
audacity will transcribe 12 semitones, which is an octave. i would higly recommend amazing slow downer. all other slow downers actually just chop the music (making it sound like junk), but the amazing slow downer has a very high quality sound when slowed down, and an easy to use interface.
i would like to point out that an octave is not actually a big deal. if you look at it both psychoacoustically and physically, an octave is the same note as the fundamental, i.e. the notes kevin is playing on the flute are the same as you will play on yours. the octave is the only difference. i know this is self-evident, but i say it because your hear actually hears the same note. whether it is A in the second octave or A in the first, your ear stil hears A. this is not a skill, like some of us can listen to a set of flat pipes, hear a B and just instinctively know it is a D (because we listen for tune structure instead of pitch), but an innate, psychoacoustic quality of music. that being said, of course it can be confusing, as you are first starting off.
i would recommend listening to the music. not just slowing it down and trying to wrap your brain around it--let the tune wrap itself around you. if you cannot lilt the tune (which means to sing it), then you have no business playing it. this is why it is so difficult. your approach now seems to be to try to listen to the recording and re-create exactly what you hear, using analytical thinking strategies and it's not working--it's even contradicting the natural way you are actually hearing the music.
the problem is that on one level, music is not so analytical. on another, it is, which is why we talk about semitones, octaves, transposing, subdivision of rhythm, etc. but, language is processed in the brain similarly to language, and language is processed through sound, and sound is processed both in the ear and in an a specific region of the brain. so please, use your ear, use your brain, and use your vocal chords! listen, listen, lilt, lilt, learn that tune. i guarantee you it will be much easier if you learn how to lilt the tune and THEN try to approach it analytically on the whistle.
EDIT:
i am very tired. i made a lot of mistakes. i tried to correct them before posting (like i used the word concertina instead of whistle).
first line should read "amazing slow downer can transcribe..."
"your hear actually..." should be your "ear"
----
i'd also like to add that i was even taught in classical music that you should never play something you cannot sing, do not play a rhythm you cannot speak. so, if there was 7 notes in a beat (a fluttery, sort of sound), then i was not allowed to play it if i could not say "santa fe new mexico" in the allotted time, while counting out the rhythms. as classical music is by sheet, and not be ear, it shows you how important this is--as irish is largely by ear, imagine how important it must be that you can speak it! james kelly (fiddle player) similarly will not let a student play anything that they cannot lilt, even down to the ornamentation. i cant kick up the laird of drumblair ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=fEFlZLA4Trc ) to full speed because i am having trouble finding a way to vocalize the triplets at full speed, and i dont think i'll ever be able to--it is much more difficult to try to wrap your hands around a rhythm in your fingers that you cannot seem to wrap around mentally. i have it down at slow speed, but i just simply cant count that fast at the speed tommy peoples plays it.
the best part of it all is that you will be able to lilt better than you can play, insofar as you will have a better sense of neagh (sometimes pelt nyah), which is the *feel* of the music. i myself actually listen to my lilting, to teach me how to play, as i can get a great neagh when singing, but not as good when i play.
Anal: It may not be the problem in this case, but mp3 is a lossy compression format and whilst most of us don't notice the loss in quality when played at normal speed you are making harder for Audacity to do a good job of changing things.
Oh, and most folk here have long forgotten that it can be quite a challenge when starting to match the pitch of something with a different timbre, in a different octave, doing unfamiliar rhythmic things.
You can't go wrong with Transcribe, I've been using it for years and it absolutely does exactly what you want with a very high quality algorithm for the speed and/or pitch changing. The video demos I posted pretty much say it all.
Having read these posts, I didn't see any reference to a small piece of software called "Guitar and Drum Trainer 2". I've been using this for some time now and it's free. It has everything you need for changing tempos, pitch etc, looping, skipping and has an inbuilt EQ.
The link to one of the sites where you can download it is:
Thanks again to all - I will give Transcribe a try nevertheless the advice given from dave - her, DAIV - which I would thank the most, for the great depth of the suggestions, which I feel coming from a wise and expert player and - I feel - a good teacher too.
I will try to "translate up" that tune anyhow now since I started all this but I'll focus more on the listen-lilt-listen-lilt ear (and brain) training.
Software: change pitch and tempo...
Software: change pitch and tempo...
...well I had my very first lesson yesterday and the instructor told me to learn "the rolling waves" by having in mind "the way it sounds on the CD" he left me ("in good company" from Kevin Crawford).
Too bad "the CD" plays that song on the flute and I'm learning to play the whistle at first... and well, I'm such a beginner that having the CD playing in... "my right octave" would help my ear quite a big lot.
ALSO, and perhaps more important, I'd love to slow down that darn thing and listen carefully and lovely note by note; so that I can compare it with what I can sound AND with the edition of the Jig published here on "the session", to see if they'r exactly the same and I can also use that score as a reference or if they differ somehow.
First of it all: I _already_ tried Audacity. I love free software and I'm a fan of open source, but this tool plain sucks for this purpose. If I try to slow down the song half the speed the result is "scattering" and "flickering" - sorry, I'm pretty sure those are NOT the right english words for what I hear, but I hope you got the sense of it.
Same if I try to raise the pitch. A whole octave is not present in the drop down menu, but it let me choose freely how many semitones raise it up. I choose of course twelve; same, hem, scatter and flicker. Nothing actually listenable, not even for didactic purpose as I would like to. It seems to listen to a radio station in a place where it cant' catch the signal well, almost.
It's only me, to experiment those behaviours with Audacity? Am I trying to push the changes way too much? Or as I FEAR it is just that Audacity is a lot limited and can you please suggest me a high level software to consider buying, which would do the job as a charm, plain, perfectly and lovely?
Well, thank you all so much for reading up to this point and for sharing your experience and thoughs.
Cheers!
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Anal
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
If your lookin' to slow down the cd , the Amazing Slow Downer software is supposed to be pretty good. Its already on my list of learning tools to get.
http://www.ronimusic.com/
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by JD-DHguitar
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I have found a two-pronged approach works:
1. Load your file into Audacity. Use the pitch change to fix the pitch. (Note that this step DOES NOT change the speed.) I would not use this to try to move more than a few whole steps, as it starts sounding bad. When you have the pitch where you like it, export to a new MP3 file.
2. Load this MP3 file into Windows Media Player and use the speed settings to change the speed. You can go as slow as half speed. It sounds good enough to learn from at half speed but it is not pretty.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I forgot to mention the initial step -- rip your CD to MP3s using something like FreeRIP.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Thank you crazy_fingerz.
Too bad what I actually need about the pitch IS to put it up 12 steps, no one less, or it would even be worse than leaving it "as is" for learning and comparison purposes.
About the speed, what I'm looking for is something to slow WAY down... WITHOUT having it sound "not pretty" as you too recognize.
I'll consider amazing slow downer for that. I've seen I can try-before-buy so I'll let you know for other's sake if I founded it adequate.
Now about the PITCH. Any tought about a way to raise a music file up of an octave - and having it still playing fine?
Thanks again, and good night.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Anal
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
the standard version of quicktime does this now quite nicely... just open the mp3, then open the av controls from the window pull down, and voila.... i just discovered this a couple of days ago, but it works quite nicely.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by maze
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I've been using quicktime too - for videos also - but I don't think it will change the pitch a whole octave. Maybe you could have your instructor record it in the correct key for you? Or find something else that's in a good whistle key and learn that? It won't take you long to get to the point where octaves are easy for you, so don't invest too much money!
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by airport
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
err, correct register?
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by airport
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Bear in mind that the tune Crawford plays on In Good Company under the name The Rolling Waves is different from another jig widely known by the same name. And that Crawford's "Rolling Waves" goes by the name The Humours of Trim at least as far back as O'Neill's. You might find a whistle recording of it under that name.
Learning to transfer a tune from an octave below to your whistle is a useful skill to acquire. There shouldn't be any problem playing along with it, and no need to change the pitch to match your own playing. Learning to listen is one of the most essential aspects of playing music, eh?
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Will CPT
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
There's something important to think about and take into account when artificially slowing down this music and that is the twiddley bits.
No matter how slow you'd be playing tunes in the real world, the speed of cuts and taps will remain pretty steady. This is because they are not really notes in their own right, but actually percussive interruptions to other notes. When you slow the tune down with your computer, these percussive interruptions loose their character and begin to sound like notes in them selves. Don't copy this, it's wrong.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Try a demo version of Sony Sound Forge if you can't find anything else. It can change pitch and speed independently.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Whiddler
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
crazy-fingerz - don't understand why you use a two program process because Audacity has three options:
Change Pitch - changes the pitch, keeps the speed
Change Speed - changes the speed, changes the pitch
Change Tempo - changes the speed, keeps the pitch.
The can be applied one after the other so Change Pitch and then Change Tempo.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by goldfrog
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I see what you mean. I just tried it myself on another tune and got a very high pitched distortion and static sound. It seems that Audacity can't handle changing the pitch by an octave without creating these horrible noises.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by harry
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I've recently downloaded Transcribe and I'm very happy with it.
It can change pitch by whole octaves right down to fractions of a semitone so you can exactly match the cd to your whistle.
You can vary speed from 1 - 100% and a really useful feature - you can select a section ( or even one bar) and loop it to keep playing just the selection at your chosen speed until you have learned it.
It costs $50 US but you get a 30 day free trial which I am in the middle of now.
I found out about it on tTranscribe on these youtube videos from tradlessons.com:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rY846dfCrv0
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4PpuBWeheYA
Have a look - I think you'll like it
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Taminka
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Here is a workaround that makes it sound better. Try changing the pitch by 6 semitones, then by 6 semitones again.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by harry
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Ive used the Amazing Slow Downer on mac and pc and it always crashes on my Mac - anyone else have the same experience? On the pc it works good. A bit overpriced though i think.
Thanks for the quicktime tip - i never new that! Its not pretty but it works.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by christianhanvey
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
goldfrog -- I change the pitch to "retune" recording where they are playing in oddball tunings. Like E-flat Dannan, etc.
I use the speed control in WMP to slow down the retuned MP3s while I am first learning from them. But once I have the skeleton, I try to learn it at full speed so I get the right feel.
So the retuning is permanent, but the slowdown is temporary. Hence the 2 different methods.
If there was a recording that was just too fast, I would slow it down within Audacity and save out a new slowed down MP3. I realize I can do this, it's just not something I have ever wanted to do.
Anyhow, this is just my method for learning...YMMV.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Before you give up with Audacity try ripping to a WAV file not an MP3. Some of what you are hearing after the pitch or tempo change are probably compression artifacts in the MP3. It works fine for me. But yes, if its a whole octave why bother ?
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by david_h
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
connect a light dimmer to the power source of the cd player and wear a pair of shoes with rubber soles. Make sure you know where the fuse box to your house is and call the city before you dig. I jest of course.
Don't care much for Audacity. Slow Downer or Reaper, Pro Tools, Acid 6 when I'm adventurous.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Thanks all.
@ david_h: the mp3/wav thing is not an issue, since when you import any file in Audacity it decompress the waveform so that it can work on it without any compression issue.
@ llig leahcim: I know that ornamentations are not grace NOTES by themselves and slowing a tune can be misleading in that sense but I'm some step beyond that for now. What I'm lookin for now is just to pick up the right notes on the whistle, and being able to check that the scores I have are OK too; if not, adapt them.
And most important, @ Will CPT: I feel the importance to listen and understand music even in different register, just learning to recognize INTERVALS between each note. That would be a great skill to acquire and have. But as I said, I am a very beginner though, so that's a problem for me and I'd want to step into the listening and identify thing gradually, beginning from what's closest (if not idenctical) to what *I* can play myself on my instrument.
I will check the softwares and the tips you all suggested. And I'll suddenly check "The Humours of Trim" scores as suggested by Will CPT, indeed.
@ all: thanks so much!
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Anal
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
This is to inform you that the Sony Soudforge 9.0 does NOT do anything better than Audacity.
It seems that it's something intrinsic to the problem itself.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Anal
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
audacity will transcribe 12 semitones, which is an octave. i would higly recommend amazing slow downer. all other slow downers actually just chop the music (making it sound like junk), but the amazing slow downer has a very high quality sound when slowed down, and an easy to use interface.
i would like to point out that an octave is not actually a big deal. if you look at it both psychoacoustically and physically, an octave is the same note as the fundamental, i.e. the notes kevin is playing on the flute are the same as you will play on yours. the octave is the only difference. i know this is self-evident, but i say it because your hear actually hears the same note. whether it is A in the second octave or A in the first, your ear stil hears A. this is not a skill, like some of us can listen to a set of flat pipes, hear a B and just instinctively know it is a D (because we listen for tune structure instead of pitch), but an innate, psychoacoustic quality of music. that being said, of course it can be confusing, as you are first starting off.
i would recommend listening to the music. not just slowing it down and trying to wrap your brain around it--let the tune wrap itself around you. if you cannot lilt the tune (which means to sing it), then you have no business playing it. this is why it is so difficult. your approach now seems to be to try to listen to the recording and re-create exactly what you hear, using analytical thinking strategies and it's not working--it's even contradicting the natural way you are actually hearing the music.
the problem is that on one level, music is not so analytical. on another, it is, which is why we talk about semitones, octaves, transposing, subdivision of rhythm, etc. but, language is processed in the brain similarly to language, and language is processed through sound, and sound is processed both in the ear and in an a specific region of the brain. so please, use your ear, use your brain, and use your vocal chords! listen, listen, lilt, lilt, learn that tune. i guarantee you it will be much easier if you learn how to lilt the tune and THEN try to approach it analytically on the whistle.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by daiv
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
EDIT:
i am very tired. i made a lot of mistakes. i tried to correct them before posting (like i used the word concertina instead of whistle).
first line should read "amazing slow downer can transcribe..."
"your hear actually..." should be your "ear"
----
i'd also like to add that i was even taught in classical music that you should never play something you cannot sing, do not play a rhythm you cannot speak. so, if there was 7 notes in a beat (a fluttery, sort of sound), then i was not allowed to play it if i could not say "santa fe new mexico" in the allotted time, while counting out the rhythms. as classical music is by sheet, and not be ear, it shows you how important this is--as irish is largely by ear, imagine how important it must be that you can speak it! james kelly (fiddle player) similarly will not let a student play anything that they cannot lilt, even down to the ornamentation. i cant kick up the laird of drumblair ( http://youtube.com/watch?v=fEFlZLA4Trc ) to full speed because i am having trouble finding a way to vocalize the triplets at full speed, and i dont think i'll ever be able to--it is much more difficult to try to wrap your hands around a rhythm in your fingers that you cannot seem to wrap around mentally. i have it down at slow speed, but i just simply cant count that fast at the speed tommy peoples plays it.
the best part of it all is that you will be able to lilt better than you can play, insofar as you will have a better sense of neagh (sometimes pelt nyah), which is the *feel* of the music. i myself actually listen to my lilting, to teach me how to play, as i can get a great neagh when singing, but not as good when i play.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by daiv
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Anal: It may not be the problem in this case, but mp3 is a lossy compression format and whilst most of us don't notice the loss in quality when played at normal speed you are making harder for Audacity to do a good job of changing things.
Oh, and most folk here have long forgotten that it can be quite a challenge when starting to match the pitch of something with a different timbre, in a different octave, doing unfamiliar rhythmic things.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by david_h
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
You can't go wrong with Transcribe, I've been using it for years and it absolutely does exactly what you want with a very high quality algorithm for the speed and/or pitch changing. The video demos I posted pretty much say it all.
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by Michael Eskin
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Transcribe is available with a 30 day free demo for Windows, Mac, or Linux at:
http://www.seventhstring.com
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by Michael Eskin
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
I have been using Amazing Slow Downer on the Mac and I really like it. It can slow the tune down and change the pitch independently.
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by robertf
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Having read these posts, I didn't see any reference to a small piece of software called "Guitar and Drum Trainer 2". I've been using this for some time now and it's free. It has everything you need for changing tempos, pitch etc, looping, skipping and has an inbuilt EQ.
The link to one of the sites where you can download it is:
http://www.sharewareconnection.com/guitar-and-drum-trainer-2.htm
It's simple to use and works well for me.
Terry
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by tctelboy
Re: Software: change pitch and tempo...
Thanks again to all - I will give Transcribe a try nevertheless the advice given from dave - her, DAIV - which I would thank the most, for the great depth of the suggestions, which I feel coming from a wise and expert player and - I feel - a good teacher too.
I will try to "translate up" that tune anyhow now since I started all this
but I'll focus more on the listen-lilt-listen-lilt ear (and brain) training.
With love
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by Anal