There has been padraig rynne,hugh healy,ernistine healy,alan egan and many many others,but who's going to take it from here? Is there even anybody good enough? Lately I've been wondering
Not a very constructive response,I mean who's going to change the whole scene.If the past is anything to go by,only a minority of those people will continue to play,and a smaller percentage again will make itto e very well established and distinguished concertina players like the above.Im just wondering who's making waves
The ordinary boy or girl, whether child or teenager, man or woman, playing every day to the best of their ability, are the ones making the real waves. Change what scene? Perhaps the sessions happening every night where nice music is being played? Is that not "scene" enough for you? What change would you suggest? The people who have carried the tradition for years, are they not distinguished enough for you? I would suggest that wounded reply is very construction and truthful
The people who carried the tradition for years are certainly enough for me ,but I'm wondering if people see any equivalents to hill,kitty hayes,paddy murphy,the droney's etc on their way to being musicians like these are and were
concertina, I kindof meant more mid to late teenagers.Somebody in particular to look out for or perhaps in get a recording of.For me it's just a case of when you think youve heard everybody ,a new person arrives.The epic discussion title seems to have led away from what I wondered
Rook,
Theres a mad for trad Niall Vallely one,simon thoumire has one aswell but wouldnt be must ue to you
Kate McNamara. A girl called Sorcha McCurtin(?) but again these are only the ones that get on CD or on the radio but there are loads living around Ireland anyway in relative anonymity world wide wise but are recognised in their communities. I know where you are going bozouki but it really is a case of loads of them being there but haven't been recorded.Eoin O'Neill at Clare FM has a policy or recording young players in their own houses and a few hours of listening to them would both fill you with joy and break your heart -
You're thinking it's all about being "good" or "virtuosic". Big mistake. Better re-think that. In fact if we don't want Irish music to turn into something horrid, bland, and joyless like recent American Country music or Bluegrass, with their emphases on marketability and technical virtuosity at the expense of musicality and uniqueness, we'd all better watch those sort of attitudes.
Think about the celebrity thing for a second, Sorcha Curtin appears twice on Clare FM and she's named as the future of concertina playing while in reality the community she's from has at least a dozen of players from the same age group who have the same abilities. They're all lovely players and there are multitudes of them all over and collectively they are the future.
Who's to know who will stand out of the present generations I would rate Yvonne Griffin among my top five and Brid Meaney and maybe Yvonne's sister Lourda should rank high as well as well but how often do we hear them mentioned? It's hard to say who of the up and coming will surface. I am pretty fond of Lorraine O Brien's playing but there are lovely players out there in Kilmihil and Lisseycasey and all over whose names escape me for the moment nut I have heard them and the yae there, playing away.
Perhaps the kids should be left to practise their concertina chops in modest obscurity. Limelighted over-early, individuals might go on to fall neck over crop into the pitfalls of fame and become troubled concertina players, in and out of rehab and courthouse, whey-faced and red-eyed in tabloid photos. Seriously, they should be spared that. So should the rest of us.
bazoukipukey has a valid point. You know - I really hate these comments about virtuostic being somehow a bad thing.
No no - you are right - I'd much rather sit down with a bunch of session wreckers who cant play and are out of tune than someone who is actually brilliant at what they do...god sakes, this board is getting so boring, yayy for all the people who dont have a clue...yayyaayy that youve all taken over the board yaaayy
boring
And - really who is there since padraig rynne? What is wrong with a question like that. There are a mass of kids who can play really well - but there are only ever a handful who have that something else, that indescibable musicianship.
*And - really who is there since padraig rynne? * Has to be a wind up - on so many levels ! But a good one- you can feel the eyeballs pop and the hands rushe to the keyboard..and then you go "ah no"
To those of you who believe its the fame im referring to,youre well mistaken.Are any of the four people I mentioned at the beginning famous?or even Paddy
Murphy or Kitty Hayes who i mentioned afterwards.I am not referring to fame,nor am I referring to 'changing the scene' as my poor articulation may have suggested.I just feel that there is such a wealth of absolutely fantastic concertina now and in the past,but very get the opportunity to express their talent to even a slightly wider audience most of the other instruments being played.I suppose the joy of forms is that everybody will pick something different from what I say.Without me being in the position to say 'no,no what I meant was.........'
concertinaplayer: firstly, I never said 'who is there since padraig rynne?' because I know there are many many good players. Secondly ,I feel that very few have received the exposure or encouragement that is certainly due to them.And before any jumps down my throat about 'fame',that is not what I mean.I mean a springboard to share their talents.
I've been watching these young concertina players and they all seem to have the same instrument with the same bellows and design. Where are these coming from and why do they all look the same?
There is a young player from Clare living up here in Dublin called Colm Delaney. To me he has something special. He sees a different angle on concertina playing and is willing to express it.
Its probably like Paddy Murphy, Noel Hill and Padraig Rynne all did in their generations. Its great that he can play traditional and can play modern when he wishes to too.
What I think he has thats similar to the above mentioned is he plays a session without showing off and taking over and plays a concert as its meant to be .... a show.
I am sure some people will disagree with me on this but I am only expressing MY thoughts on it and I am not a huge fan of the concertina at the moment.
Any one feel like having the same discussion on banjo players?
i dont know. i've met a lot of young players who are very good, and that's just in the midwest of america. i like it when edel fox plays traditionally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzwjNbioTY&NR=1 . is micheal o raghallaigh too old?
give me a few years, and maybe you'll be hearing from me. i like the old music the best--kitty hayes, mike rafferty, willie clancy, mrs. crotty, seamus ennis, john kelly, the dunne family. i hope to be able to do the music justice.
i think the future of concertina players is very bright. clodagh ryan teaches a lot of kids in chicago. noel hill has scores and scores of students all over the world. not to mention the shenannigans at eigse mrs. crotty!
20 years ago, as far as i know, the only people making concertinas were colin dipper, steve dickenson at wheatstone, the crabb family (until 1989), and probably the two south african makers. off the top of my head, i can think of 19 companies who are making concertinas today. surely there are players, young and old to fit the supply.
do any of those look familiar? i myself am waiting on my new carroll ( http://www.carrollconcertinas.com/ ). i think i'm going to go with all black. what do you play?
The future certainly is bright.There are some younsters in the late teens/early twenties that ar absolutely amazing.I've never heard of colm delany,ill look him up.Edel fox is certainly brilliant.Who is clodagh ryan?
daiv, I'm talking about the kids playing on the Comhaltas website. Look at the first link on this thread of Brada Shannon. That's not an Edgley, Morse or Tedrow. But if you look through that website of the younger players posted recently you'll see they all seem to have the same one.
phantom-they do seem to be playing the same concertina! my guess is that it is a connor ( http://www.concertina.net/images/connor_01.jpg ) they all play. if you look at the gold tooling on the bellows, it is identical to the that on the bellows of breda's concertina and of all the other youngin's with the identical concertinas. also, they all seem to have the distinctive, metal, raised ends. if you check this link (where i got the pic), http://www.concertina.net/guide.html#Connor , it seems to suggest that yes, all of the comhaltas-ey young champs are playing connors.
when i see randy merris next week, i'll ask him what he thinks they all play over there. he was over in ireland last year with chris algar, schlepping concertinas, and a lot of people seemed to like the mediocre 50's wheatstones over a much nicer, wakker concertina.
to me, the "future of concertina playing' is that the concertina is now securely established as a desirable primary melody instrument like the fiddle or flute. and like all the other primary melody instruments, it can be used for experiments and excursions into technical flash, or technical "innovation,".....or, like the other primary melody instruments, it can be used as a vehicle for expressive creativity within traditional parameters, iwth no obligation to, er, "extend" the instrument's capacity. and it can be used for both, of course.
now that bass chords are being considered some big Discovery (as if morris musicians have not been doing this for eons, or like tommy mccarthy or john kelly couldn't have done this had they chosen), we can only pray the accordion players don't decide they should unleash their basses as well, or that the fiddlers don't decide that pizzicato would be an "innovation."
My question is: how can those kids afford such expensive instruments ? The Celtic Tiger economy ?(now on the wane, by the way). Connors are not cheap. What about those who play Stagis and the like ? Are they doomed to obscurity ? It would be sad indeed if only rich kids could aspire to some level of fame.
Don't worry, concertinaplayer, this is not a repeat of that notorious whine on concertina.net (that has apparently been deleted) about some people being more deserving than others, (aspiring pros)and being unfairly denied access to quality instruments by hobbyists. But it's a true question. I am a little puzzled, that's all.
I'm extremely puzzled why someone from South Armagh (allegedly) who's biog includes the information that he is 'new to this whole scene' should evince detailed knowledge of young or youngish Clare concertina players.
I bet bozoukipukey couldn't find his way to the Red Fella's Bar in a month of Sundays.
Yes pennhorse, I did fear that we would go there again. We touched on it on the post on the Olwell flute. It is a good question. The prices are horrific.I don't know how the parents afford them, and this is before weekly classes not to mention summer schools. The fees are quite reasonable but there is whole logistics of moving a family to Miltown, Drumshambo, Achill, Sligo or wherever for a week. And that is just presuming one child in the family is playing !!
Its really not a windup on my part I'm afraid concertinaplayer. But good one for trying to mind read across the internet - I'm sure there is a market for that somewhere.
I think the whole discussion is a bit silly because there's no way of knowing. We can all rest assured that the concertina isn't going to fade away into obscurity any time soon with all of the lovely young players I've seen on the Comhaltas site and elsewhere, and that's good enough for me. If any of them rise above the rest and do something astounding we'll just have to wait and see.
i dont know how they can afford them. i also wonder how kids in america can afford to go over to ireland to compete. kids!
i just wonder if young kids with connors and such appreciate what they have. i met an 8 year old with a suttner once--suttner!--and it may have well been a stagi, because she didn't know the difference.
i cant wait for my carroll, but boy am i grateful for the stagi i learned on, and the edgley i have now. i constantly am amazed that i am so privileged that i have the luxury to spend hours and hours working to save up for what amounts to nothing more than an expensive toy, while there are so many people that work twice as hard as me and go to bed at night hungry. i just hope all those kids on comhaltas appreciate how lucky they are and treasure their instruments.
The real value that the kids in Ireland have isn't so much the instruments but rather growing up with the music and the opportunity to learn at such an early age from the great musicians in close proximity to them.
If the description "generation " is not acceptable then perhaps the term "age group" might work better.If one wants to know *some* of the good players who were playing when Padraig Rynne became better known than they, one only has to go the list of teachers for Eigse Mrs Crotty and Willie Clancy Week who are of that age group. These players were all around when Padraig became known. The only difference is that he chose to promote himself via CD or playing professionally. But Mairead Considine , Sharon O'Leary etc are all equally good albeit in a different style.You need to be good to be considered for teaching not only in the summer schools but the summer schools in Clare.
If being known through certain media channels is how someone is judged as being "the next one to look out for", and if this entitles a player to be considered "the next one to look out for", then take your pick amongst those who are promoted this way or chose to promote themselves by releasing a CD, touring professionally etc but be assured that nobody amongst the grass roots pays any attention to that way of measuring ability. And the players themselves will quite quickly point to another dozen who are equally good if not better.
In the past few years, there has been a certain concertina player touted by some and on some forums as being the next great player and she is indeed a great player. However, a few weeks ago in Clare , I listened as as a couple of well respected and known trad players, from Clare, discussed her playing in a fair and probably affectionate way, but it didn't stop them from pointing out certain weaknesses in her playing and hoped she would rectify them. They also mentioned some criticism of her playing in past years and when one considers this was at a time when she was being touted outside of Clare as " the next one to watch out for", it tells us just how high the standard is in Clare. Good concertina players are to Clare what hurling players are to Kilkenny, and rugby players are to New Zealand- ten a penny.
So there are always great/wonderful/next great things coming through but because it is only in the world of commerce and selling CDs and egos that players are rated in that way, people in the local communities/townlands pay little or no attention.Whilst they might consider you good in Clare, whilst you might even consider yourself good, playing concertinas and indeed music is in the blood in Clare( and indeed other parts of Ireland as well) and like buses there is always another good 'un coming along( in fact you stand a better chance of getting a good concertina player than you do getting a bus at times.) Kilfarboy who lives in Clare has already said this much more clearly than I can.
It isn't about a "biatch" about styles, it is more about the futilty of trying to measure something that is not only immeasureable but of no consequence. And this is before you talks about yong musicians that are considered "red hot" on one instrument and then just decide to take up another and sometimes to be then considered excellent on that ! I was recently talking to Mairead Hurley, a concertina player from Sligo and in conversation I asked her when she started playing the concertina. Quite casually she mentioned that she had started playing seven years previously( that she had been and still is highly rated as a flute player was neither here not there !)That she had won the All Ireland senior concertina grade after seven years was also it seems by the by
If wanting to guage who the next hot concertina player is going to be, go to Clare and try to figure it out and see how quickly your head is melted. You'd be better of served going out to Spanish Point and trying to keep the tide out. Of course you could always go to Custy's web site, click on video clips and look and listen to The Under 12 Tulla Ceili Band and see who yea reckon might be "the next one to look out for "
Fact is concertinaplayer - some of us just cant hop down to clare and have a quick listen. Its a big world out there and some of us dont live in Ireland. You can create an argument out of nothing if you like, but I am sure there are a few people to watch...even if they dont have a cd out. Its not about selling cds, but just a general interest in who people are listening to at the moment (even down at their local pub). But I am truely sorry I asked, forget it.
I don't think concertinaplayer is being sh*tty to be fair and of course there is nothing wrong with asking the question.
" but just a general interest in who people are listening to at the moment "
.........
I caught a glimpse of the u12's myself and it is scary how good they are some were as young as nine if i remember right and multi instrumentalists to boot!.Lovely straight up music effortlessly flowing out and a couple of them are looking about and staring out the window without a care in the world, fantastic stuff,it would be a great cd for the beginner to play along with.
As for it melting the heed i think you can apply that to many aspects of this music if you try pin things down and label,that's one of the cool things about it imo.
Cheers
Sorry you feel like that bb. But there are other facts - that even for those of us who live in other parts of Ireland( and I am well aware that you don't live in Ireland) and can only get to Clare every so often, we can't know them all. I can go to Clare tonight,listen to a great player and know that all over Clare and indeed other parts of Ireland, that there are other equally good players playing, sometimes in their kitchen. Kilfarboy couldn't remember them all and he lives there !
What style of playing? East Clare, West Clare,North Clare style? One of the sweetest players from Clare is Martin O'Brien from East Clare, but he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he is good and if you listen , has that "thing" But who knows him? As Kifarboy said about the two Griffin sisters "who has heard of them"
If you go to Ennis seven nights a week, you will get Bb sessions, Eb sessions, fast and furious and highly technical sessions, East Clare laid back sessions etc and you( not you personally) might think that you have found a great player. At the exact same time out in Cooraclare or Kilmihil or Miltown, there will some other brilliant player playing and someone out there might think that who they're listening to is the best !. The next week that same brilliant player might be playing the fiddle? Tara Breen is an example. Red hot fiddle playing one night, can play saxaphone the next night and still only late teens, early twenties.
I am not trying to "create an argument out of nothing" because believe you me, it's not that important, I know how immeasureable this is. But Kilfarboy has already said the same thing above, what else can I say? The answer is that there is no answer and there doesn't seem to be any way to explain that ??? If you want to believe that someone somewhere is being listened to more than someone else, somewhere else, and that " I am sure there are a few people to watch"go right ahead. I didn't mean to appear unhelpful or mean spirited, I just can't give you the answer??
Yes, J.D., a friend was in a concertina class this year in Miltown and not a beginners class.He was telling me about some small wee child, who actually had to move her whole hand up and down the concertina to get to buttons. Apparently she was doing as a lot of kids do at the age of seven or eight, quietly talking to her friend beside her. Whilst she was doing this or as you say, looking out the window without a care in the world, he and others were trying to master the tune. However when it came to her turn to play it, she came back from wherever her head was, played the tune perfectly even if the buttons were a struggle and when done , resumed chatting or day dreaming as thank gawd kids can do. Wonderful and scary !
concertina player--i find that habit if children annoying. what are they doing in a class or camp if they are not paying attention? if it is really so beneath them, they should be doing as kids do, and playing outside with their friends. i like noel hill's approach to children who talk during his classes and workshops--a big, loud, clap.
i am a firm believe that being fully engaged in class is very important to learning, and that if these same children who can talk and then play brilliantly paid attention as much as you or i, they would be even more brilliant. engage or leave from the room, i say. i say this sincerely, and not as a matter of punishment, but of practicality--mindlessness is hardly the way to approach learning. i think that if kids spent their time in the classroom learning, and their time outside playing, there would be no attention problems. as an old japanese monk said, "don't smoke while going to the bathroom"--when kids play, they should play, and when kids learn, they should learn. i am also a firm believer in when a childs attention is spent--or an adults, for that matter--they should leave the learning situation and re-enter in a few minutes. i dont believe they should be forced to sit longer than their attention spans, as this teaches them (and us all) to ignore our natural, ever-changing length of attention span, which thus teaches us how to never pay attention.
i was at a session the other day, and these kids were just as you described. one girl even sat there, in the circle, and totally ignored what was going on, to the point where she missed tunes that she knew because she was zoning out. the other girls only showed in the circle when they wanted to play, but left their instruments in chairs from which they were mostly absent. these children, then, basically took up 4 or 5 chairs, that mostly sat empty, which made it very difficult to hear the other players.
i dont mind if someone sits there, listens, and doesnt play, with an instrument in hand, but to waste their time, and waste my mind, is annoying.
that being said, they were all lovely children, and fantastic players, and i dont blame them for being annoying, as i do believe it is children's jobs to be annoying, just as it is babies jobs to scream and cry and mess themselves. i know i as a child was extremely annoying (i even cultivated it), and i do hope that children will always be that way. i just wish they would be like good children and be annoying me by wanting my attention and being loud and breaking things rather than leaving vacant chairs with violin bows haphazardly sticking out.
The future of concertina playing isn't in the hands of whizz players in their late teens/early twenties.
It is in the hands of their teachers - the likes of Noel Hill and Mary Mac, to name two, who have dedicated their lives to encouraging kids to take up the box.
Although not strictly ITM players we musn't forget Alistair Anderson and John Kirkpatrick who have encouraged that many players in England, who have gone on to play ITM.
And don't rule Scotland and the English Concertina out. I predict that a budding Simon Thoumire will eventually break into the Irish Concertina world.
Don't belive me? Listen to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSnLR6Ojuk
Maybe the question should be: who's the next concertina player that will promote themselves commercially, make recordings, join a band and be spotlighted somewhere in the Hills and Vallelys of the Irish concertina landscape?
Floss the Feathers; We can happily talk about " young or youngish" players of anything if you like,from any county,though young harmonica players from rural county leitrim may be few and far between, and more is the pity.Perhaps not.When did where I'm from become relevant to the discussion,concentrate on the topics at hand my good man,please!
deffinetly cillian king
hes done some great stuff while recording with dervish and you can really notice the influence of bands such as the sawdoctors coming through in his music
some say that when cillian king makes a mistake during a set, ten african children are cured of aids.......................no children have been cured yet
Who's the future of concertina playing?
Who's the future of concertina playing?
There has been padraig rynne,hugh healy,ernistine healy,alan egan and many many others,but who's going to take it from here? Is there even anybody good enough? Lately I've been wondering
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I would have thought the 100+, mostly young students doing concertina classes down in Miltown are the 'future of concertina playing'.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Not a very constructive response,I mean who's going to change the whole scene.If the past is anything to go by,only a minority of those people will continue to play,and a smaller percentage again will make itto e very well established and distinguished concertina players like the above.Im just wondering who's making waves
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The ordinary boy or girl, whether child or teenager, man or woman, playing every day to the best of their ability, are the ones making the real waves. Change what scene? Perhaps the sessions happening every night where nice music is being played? Is that not "scene" enough for you? What change would you suggest? The people who have carried the tradition for years, are they not distinguished enough for you? I would suggest that wounded reply is very construction and truthful
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The people who carried the tradition for years are certainly enough for me ,but I'm wondering if people see any equivalents to hill,kitty hayes,paddy murphy,the droney's etc on their way to being musicians like these are and were
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Yes, as wounded said, they were all over Miltown and will be at Drumshambo, Kilrush etc
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I am. Just got one. Gotta figure out where it plugs in...
Seriously, though, any good tutorials available?
(German type: different note on the push and the draw of the bellows)
Many thanks in advance.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Piece
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
concertina, I kindof meant more mid to late teenagers.Somebody in particular to look out for or perhaps in get a recording of.For me it's just a case of when you think youve heard everybody ,a new person arrives.The epic discussion title seems to have led away from what I wondered
Rook,
Theres a mad for trad Niall Vallely one,simon thoumire has one aswell but wouldnt be must ue to you
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Super Breda! She even has the "S" and everything! Go get 'em Breda!
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_264_1_breda_shannon_on_concertina/
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Kate McNamara. A girl called Sorcha McCurtin(?) but again these are only the ones that get on CD or on the radio but there are loads living around Ireland anyway in relative anonymity world wide wise but are recognised in their communities. I know where you are going bozouki but it really is a case of loads of them being there but haven't been recorded.Eoin O'Neill at Clare FM has a policy or recording young players in their own houses and a few hours of listening to them would both fill you with joy and break your heart -
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
You're thinking it's all about being "good" or "virtuosic". Big mistake. Better re-think that. In fact if we don't want Irish music to turn into something horrid, bland, and joyless like recent American Country music or Bluegrass, with their emphases on marketability and technical virtuosity at the expense of musicality and uniqueness, we'd all better watch those sort of attitudes.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Does "the whole scene" need changing, bouzoukipukey?
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Reverend
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Think about the celebrity thing for a second, Sorcha Curtin appears twice on Clare FM and she's named as the future of concertina playing while in reality the community she's from has at least a dozen of players from the same age group who have the same abilities. They're all lovely players and there are multitudes of them all over and collectively they are the future.
Who's to know who will stand out of the present generations I would rate Yvonne Griffin among my top five and Brid Meaney and maybe Yvonne's sister Lourda should rank high as well as well but how often do we hear them mentioned? It's hard to say who of the up and coming will surface. I am pretty fond of Lorraine O Brien's playing but there are lovely players out there in Kilmihil and Lisseycasey and all over whose names escape me for the moment nut I have heard them and the yae there, playing away.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I would have thought the 100+, mostly young students doing concertina classes down in Miltown are the 'future of concertina playing'.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Agree, 100%. There were at least 6 concertina players playing with us over the couple of nights in Milton.
Can I refer Bouzoukipukey to the "Fame Syndrome" thread?
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
'they are there' in that last sentence.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Perhaps the kids should be left to practise their concertina chops in modest obscurity. Limelighted over-early, individuals might go on to fall neck over crop into the pitfalls of fame and become troubled concertina players, in and out of rehab and courthouse, whey-faced and red-eyed in tabloid photos. Seriously, they should be spared that. So should the rest of us.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Oh dear, jig's back (and too stupid not to include his habitual grammatical idiosyncrasies).
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
bazoukipukey has a valid point. You know - I really hate these comments about virtuostic being somehow a bad thing.
No no - you are right - I'd much rather sit down with a bunch of session wreckers who cant play and are out of tune than someone who is actually brilliant at what they do...god sakes, this board is getting so boring, yayy for all the people who dont have a clue...yayyaayy that youve all taken over the board yaaayy
boring
And - really who is there since padraig rynne? What is wrong with a question like that. There are a mass of kids who can play really well - but there are only ever a handful who have that something else, that indescibable musicianship.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
*And - really who is there since padraig rynne? * Has to be a wind up - on so many levels ! But a good one- you can feel the eyeballs pop and the hands rushe to the keyboard..and then you go "ah no"
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
To those of you who believe its the fame im referring to,youre well mistaken.Are any of the four people I mentioned at the beginning famous?or even Paddy
Murphy or Kitty Hayes who i mentioned afterwards.I am not referring to fame,nor am I referring to 'changing the scene' as my poor articulation may have suggested.I just feel that there is such a wealth of absolutely fantastic concertina now and in the past,but very get the opportunity to express their talent to even a slightly wider audience most of the other instruments being played.I suppose the joy of forms is that everybody will pick something different from what I say.Without me being in the position to say 'no,no what I meant was.........'
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
concertinaplayer: firstly, I never said 'who is there since padraig rynne?' because I know there are many many good players. Secondly ,I feel that very few have received the exposure or encouragement that is certainly due to them.And before any jumps down my throat about 'fame',that is not what I mean.I mean a springboard to share their talents.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I've been watching these young concertina players and they all seem to have the same instrument with the same bellows and design. Where are these coming from and why do they all look the same?
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
There is a young player from Clare living up here in Dublin called Colm Delaney. To me he has something special. He sees a different angle on concertina playing and is willing to express it.
Its probably like Paddy Murphy, Noel Hill and Padraig Rynne all did in their generations. Its great that he can play traditional and can play modern when he wishes to too.
What I think he has thats similar to the above mentioned is he plays a session without showing off and taking over and plays a concert as its meant to be .... a show.
I am sure some people will disagree with me on this but I am only expressing MY thoughts on it and I am not a huge fan of the concertina at the moment.
Any one feel like having the same discussion on banjo players?
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by eurbanjo
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Oh... I'm talking about the ones that show up on the Comhaltas website.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
i dont know. i've met a lot of young players who are very good, and that's just in the midwest of america. i like it when edel fox plays traditionally: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMzwjNbioTY&NR=1 . is micheal o raghallaigh too old?
give me a few years, and maybe you'll be hearing from me. i like the old music the best--kitty hayes, mike rafferty, willie clancy, mrs. crotty, seamus ennis, john kelly, the dunne family. i hope to be able to do the music justice.
i think the future of concertina players is very bright. clodagh ryan teaches a lot of kids in chicago. noel hill has scores and scores of students all over the world. not to mention the shenannigans at eigse mrs. crotty!
20 years ago, as far as i know, the only people making concertinas were colin dipper, steve dickenson at wheatstone, the crabb family (until 1989), and probably the two south african makers. off the top of my head, i can think of 19 companies who are making concertinas today. surely there are players, young and old to fit the supply.
phantom--what concertinas are you talking about? out here, a lot of kids have edgleys ( http://www.concertinas.ca/ ) and morse ( http://www.buttonbox.com/morse.html ) concertinas. herrington is closer to you ( http://www.concertinas.com/ ). some of them might have tedrows (http://hmi.homewood.net/ ).
do any of those look familiar? i myself am waiting on my new carroll ( http://www.carrollconcertinas.com/ ). i think i'm going to go with all black. what do you play?
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by daiv
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I know you didn't say that bozouki. Check again
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The future certainly is bright.There are some younsters in the late teens/early twenties that ar absolutely amazing.I've never heard of colm delany,ill look him up.Edel fox is certainly brilliant.Who is clodagh ryan?
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
concertina: sorry about that,it was a response to a paraphrase and oh god I got confused
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
daiv, I'm talking about the kids playing on the Comhaltas website. Look at the first link on this thread of Brada Shannon. That's not an Edgley, Morse or Tedrow. But if you look through that website of the younger players posted recently you'll see they all seem to have the same one.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I noticed that myself PB and wondered. In some ways they look big?
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
no worries bozouki
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
clodagh ryan's maiden name was clodagh boylan. she played in fiddle for the band providence with micheal o raghallaigh on concertina. here are the links to the two providence albums i know of: http://www.copperplatedistribution.com/fig.html and http://www.copperplatedistribution.com/providence.html .
phantom-they do seem to be playing the same concertina! my guess is that it is a connor ( http://www.concertina.net/images/connor_01.jpg ) they all play. if you look at the gold tooling on the bellows, it is identical to the that on the bellows of breda's concertina and of all the other youngin's with the identical concertinas. also, they all seem to have the distinctive, metal, raised ends. if you check this link (where i got the pic), http://www.concertina.net/guide.html#Connor , it seems to suggest that yes, all of the comhaltas-ey young champs are playing connors.
when i see randy merris next week, i'll ask him what he thinks they all play over there. he was over in ireland last year with chris algar, schlepping concertinas, and a lot of people seemed to like the mediocre 50's wheatstones over a much nicer, wakker concertina.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by daiv
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
to me, the "future of concertina playing' is that the concertina is now securely established as a desirable primary melody instrument like the fiddle or flute. and like all the other primary melody instruments, it can be used for experiments and excursions into technical flash, or technical "innovation,".....or, like the other primary melody instruments, it can be used as a vehicle for expressive creativity within traditional parameters, iwth no obligation to, er, "extend" the instrument's capacity. and it can be used for both, of course.
now that bass chords are being considered some big Discovery (as if morris musicians have not been doing this for eons, or like tommy mccarthy or john kelly couldn't have done this had they chosen), we can only pray the accordion players don't decide they should unleash their basses as well, or that the fiddlers don't decide that pizzicato would be an "innovation."
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by ceemonster
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
My question is: how can those kids afford such expensive instruments ? The Celtic Tiger economy ?(now on the wane, by the way). Connors are not cheap. What about those who play Stagis and the like ? Are they doomed to obscurity ? It would be sad indeed if only rich kids could aspire to some level of fame.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
"My question is: how can those kids afford such expensive instruments" Oh dear, time to run for cover !
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Don't worry, concertinaplayer, this is not a repeat of that notorious whine on concertina.net (that has apparently been deleted) about some people being more deserving than others, (aspiring pros)and being unfairly denied access to quality instruments by hobbyists. But it's a true question. I am a little puzzled, that's all.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by pennhorse
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Thanks, daiv, that looks like the one.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2131
and "Dow", of course...
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by Kenny
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I'm extremely puzzled why someone from South Armagh (allegedly) who's biog includes the information that he is 'new to this whole scene' should evince detailed knowledge of young or youngish Clare concertina players.
I bet bozoukipukey couldn't find his way to the Red Fella's Bar in a month of Sundays.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by MacCruiskeen
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Yes pennhorse, I did fear that we would go there again. We touched on it on the post on the Olwell flute. It is a good question. The prices are horrific.I don't know how the parents afford them, and this is before weekly classes not to mention summer schools. The fees are quite reasonable but there is whole logistics of moving a family to Miltown, Drumshambo, Achill, Sligo or wherever for a week. And that is just presuming one child in the family is playing !!
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Concertina's are like mouth organs. You just play them, you don't need classes, summer schools or anything like that.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Its really not a windup on my part I'm afraid concertinaplayer. But good one for trying to mind read across the internet - I'm sure there is a market for that somewhere.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
" Padraig Rynne all did in their generation" - haha, thats funny - what is he, 27? 28? Something like that anyway
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I think the whole discussion is a bit silly because there's no way of knowing. We can all rest assured that the concertina isn't going to fade away into obscurity any time soon with all of the lovely young players I've seen on the Comhaltas site and elsewhere, and that's good enough for me. If any of them rise above the rest and do something astounding we'll just have to wait and see.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I just wanted people to name a few names to watch out for, but it always ends up turning into a stupid Biatch fight about style...its a shame really.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
i dont know how they can afford them. i also wonder how kids in america can afford to go over to ireland to compete. kids!
i just wonder if young kids with connors and such appreciate what they have. i met an 8 year old with a suttner once--suttner!--and it may have well been a stagi, because she didn't know the difference.
i cant wait for my carroll, but boy am i grateful for the stagi i learned on, and the edgley i have now. i constantly am amazed that i am so privileged that i have the luxury to spend hours and hours working to save up for what amounts to nothing more than an expensive toy, while there are so many people that work twice as hard as me and go to bed at night hungry. i just hope all those kids on comhaltas appreciate how lucky they are and treasure their instruments.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by daiv
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The real value that the kids in Ireland have isn't so much the instruments but rather growing up with the music and the opportunity to learn at such an early age from the great musicians in close proximity to them.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
If the description "generation " is not acceptable then perhaps the term "age group" might work better.If one wants to know *some* of the good players who were playing when Padraig Rynne became better known than they, one only has to go the list of teachers for Eigse Mrs Crotty and Willie Clancy Week who are of that age group. These players were all around when Padraig became known. The only difference is that he chose to promote himself via CD or playing professionally. But Mairead Considine , Sharon O'Leary etc are all equally good albeit in a different style.You need to be good to be considered for teaching not only in the summer schools but the summer schools in Clare.
If being known through certain media channels is how someone is judged as being "the next one to look out for", and if this entitles a player to be considered "the next one to look out for", then take your pick amongst those who are promoted this way or chose to promote themselves by releasing a CD, touring professionally etc but be assured that nobody amongst the grass roots pays any attention to that way of measuring ability. And the players themselves will quite quickly point to another dozen who are equally good if not better.
In the past few years, there has been a certain concertina player touted by some and on some forums as being the next great player and she is indeed a great player. However, a few weeks ago in Clare , I listened as as a couple of well respected and known trad players, from Clare, discussed her playing in a fair and probably affectionate way, but it didn't stop them from pointing out certain weaknesses in her playing and hoped she would rectify them. They also mentioned some criticism of her playing in past years and when one considers this was at a time when she was being touted outside of Clare as " the next one to watch out for", it tells us just how high the standard is in Clare. Good concertina players are to Clare what hurling players are to Kilkenny, and rugby players are to New Zealand- ten a penny.
So there are always great/wonderful/next great things coming through but because it is only in the world of commerce and selling CDs and egos that players are rated in that way, people in the local communities/townlands pay little or no attention.Whilst they might consider you good in Clare, whilst you might even consider yourself good, playing concertinas and indeed music is in the blood in Clare( and indeed other parts of Ireland as well) and like buses there is always another good 'un coming along( in fact you stand a better chance of getting a good concertina player than you do getting a bus at times.) Kilfarboy who lives in Clare has already said this much more clearly than I can.
It isn't about a "biatch" about styles, it is more about the futilty of trying to measure something that is not only immeasureable but of no consequence. And this is before you talks about yong musicians that are considered "red hot" on one instrument and then just decide to take up another and sometimes to be then considered excellent on that ! I was recently talking to Mairead Hurley, a concertina player from Sligo and in conversation I asked her when she started playing the concertina. Quite casually she mentioned that she had started playing seven years previously( that she had been and still is highly rated as a flute player was neither here not there !)That she had won the All Ireland senior concertina grade after seven years was also it seems by the by
If wanting to guage who the next hot concertina player is going to be, go to Clare and try to figure it out and see how quickly your head is melted. You'd be better of served going out to Spanish Point and trying to keep the tide out. Of course you could always go to Custy's web site, click on video clips and look and listen to The Under 12 Tulla Ceili Band and see who yea reckon might be "the next one to look out for "
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Fact is concertinaplayer - some of us just cant hop down to clare and have a quick listen. Its a big world out there and some of us dont live in Ireland. You can create an argument out of nothing if you like, but I am sure there are a few people to watch...even if they dont have a cd out. Its not about selling cds, but just a general interest in who people are listening to at the moment (even down at their local pub). But I am truely sorry I asked, forget it.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
I don't think concertinaplayer is being sh*tty to be fair and of course there is nothing wrong with asking the question.
" but just a general interest in who people are listening to at the moment "
.........
I caught a glimpse of the u12's myself and it is scary how good they are some were as young as nine if i remember right and multi instrumentalists to boot!.Lovely straight up music effortlessly flowing out and a couple of them are looking about and staring out the window without a care in the world, fantastic stuff,it would be a great cd for the beginner to play along with.
As for it melting the heed i think you can apply that to many aspects of this music if you try pin things down and label,that's one of the cool things about it imo.
Cheers
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by J.D
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Sorry you feel like that bb. But there are other facts - that even for those of us who live in other parts of Ireland( and I am well aware that you don't live in Ireland) and can only get to Clare every so often, we can't know them all. I can go to Clare tonight,listen to a great player and know that all over Clare and indeed other parts of Ireland, that there are other equally good players playing, sometimes in their kitchen. Kilfarboy couldn't remember them all and he lives there !
What style of playing? East Clare, West Clare,North Clare style? One of the sweetest players from Clare is Martin O'Brien from East Clare, but he's not everyone's cup of tea, but he is good and if you listen , has that "thing" But who knows him? As Kifarboy said about the two Griffin sisters "who has heard of them"
If you go to Ennis seven nights a week, you will get Bb sessions, Eb sessions, fast and furious and highly technical sessions, East Clare laid back sessions etc and you( not you personally) might think that you have found a great player. At the exact same time out in Cooraclare or Kilmihil or Miltown, there will some other brilliant player playing and someone out there might think that who they're listening to is the best !. The next week that same brilliant player might be playing the fiddle? Tara Breen is an example. Red hot fiddle playing one night, can play saxaphone the next night and still only late teens, early twenties.
I am not trying to "create an argument out of nothing" because believe you me, it's not that important, I know how immeasureable this is. But Kilfarboy has already said the same thing above, what else can I say? The answer is that there is no answer and there doesn't seem to be any way to explain that ??? If you want to believe that someone somewhere is being listened to more than someone else, somewhere else, and that " I am sure there are a few people to watch"go right ahead. I didn't mean to appear unhelpful or mean spirited, I just can't give you the answer??
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Point taken
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by bb
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Yes, J.D., a friend was in a concertina class this year in Miltown and not a beginners class.He was telling me about some small wee child, who actually had to move her whole hand up and down the concertina to get to buttons. Apparently she was doing as a lot of kids do at the age of seven or eight, quietly talking to her friend beside her. Whilst she was doing this or as you say, looking out the window without a care in the world, he and others were trying to master the tune. However when it came to her turn to play it, she came back from wherever her head was, played the tune perfectly even if the buttons were a struggle and when done , resumed chatting or day dreaming as thank gawd kids can do. Wonderful and scary !
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by concertinaplayer
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
phantom--i agree. lucky punks.
concertina player--i find that habit if children annoying. what are they doing in a class or camp if they are not paying attention? if it is really so beneath them, they should be doing as kids do, and playing outside with their friends. i like noel hill's approach to children who talk during his classes and workshops--a big, loud, clap.
i am a firm believe that being fully engaged in class is very important to learning, and that if these same children who can talk and then play brilliantly paid attention as much as you or i, they would be even more brilliant. engage or leave from the room, i say. i say this sincerely, and not as a matter of punishment, but of practicality--mindlessness is hardly the way to approach learning. i think that if kids spent their time in the classroom learning, and their time outside playing, there would be no attention problems. as an old japanese monk said, "don't smoke while going to the bathroom"--when kids play, they should play, and when kids learn, they should learn. i am also a firm believer in when a childs attention is spent--or an adults, for that matter--they should leave the learning situation and re-enter in a few minutes. i dont believe they should be forced to sit longer than their attention spans, as this teaches them (and us all) to ignore our natural, ever-changing length of attention span, which thus teaches us how to never pay attention.
i was at a session the other day, and these kids were just as you described. one girl even sat there, in the circle, and totally ignored what was going on, to the point where she missed tunes that she knew because she was zoning out. the other girls only showed in the circle when they wanted to play, but left their instruments in chairs from which they were mostly absent. these children, then, basically took up 4 or 5 chairs, that mostly sat empty, which made it very difficult to hear the other players.
i dont mind if someone sits there, listens, and doesnt play, with an instrument in hand, but to waste their time, and waste my mind, is annoying.
that being said, they were all lovely children, and fantastic players, and i dont blame them for being annoying, as i do believe it is children's jobs to be annoying, just as it is babies jobs to scream and cry and mess themselves. i know i as a child was extremely annoying (i even cultivated it), and i do hope that children will always be that way. i just wish they would be like good children and be annoying me by wanting my attention and being loud and breaking things rather than leaving vacant chairs with violin bows haphazardly sticking out.
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by daiv
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The future of concertina playing isn't in the hands of whizz players in their late teens/early twenties.
It is in the hands of their teachers - the likes of Noel Hill and Mary Mac, to name two, who have dedicated their lives to encouraging kids to take up the box.
Although not strictly ITM players we musn't forget Alistair Anderson and John Kirkpatrick who have encouraged that many players in England, who have gone on to play ITM.
And don't rule Scotland and the English Concertina out. I predict that a budding Simon Thoumire will eventually break into the Irish Concertina world.
Don't belive me? Listen to this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiSnLR6Ojuk
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Maybe the question should be: who's the next concertina player that will promote themselves commercially, make recordings, join a band and be spotlighted somewhere in the Hills and Vallelys of the Irish concertina landscape?
# Posted on July 19th 2008 by Phantom Button
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
PB - you've reached a new low point (and a high point) in your use of puns...
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
PB - you've reached a new low point (and a high point) in your use of puns...
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by Keith Dubinsky
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
haha, i thought it was one of the best puns i ever read. my first time through, i thought it was a typo, even though i saw it coming.
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by daiv
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Clever one, Phantom!
# Posted on July 20th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Floss the Feathers; We can happily talk about " young or youngish" players of anything if you like,from any county,though young harmonica players from rural county leitrim may be few and far between, and more is the pity.Perhaps not.When did where I'm from become relevant to the discussion,concentrate on the topics at hand my good man,please!
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by bozoukipukey
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
That last pun has got me Foxed.
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by geoffwright
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Cillian King is next
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by tonnta
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Gerry O Connor (Banjo) beats everybody hands down!
# Posted on July 22nd 2008 by eurbanjo
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
Colm DELANEY is the next one!
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by laure
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
The next 3 concertina players to watch for are
1 Colm Delaney
2 Aoibheann Murphy
3 Cillian King.
And thats just from the south of Ireland
# Posted on July 28th 2008 by Regan
Re: Who's the future of concertina playing?
deffinetly cillian king
hes done some great stuff while recording with dervish and you can really notice the influence of bands such as the sawdoctors coming through in his music
some say that when cillian king makes a mistake during a set, ten african children are cured of aids.......................no children have been cured yet
# Posted on September 24th 2008 by JohnMurphy2k8