I've done my homework searching through old discussions, and though the subject has been raised, it does not look to have ever been solved.
Are there really no music stores in New York City which carry irish instruments (either new or second hand)? I can't imagine that's possible.
I'm looking to get a flute, but because I don't have too much experience with them (I play the whistle) I'd like to get a chance to play and experiment with one rather than buying sound unheard via the internet.
Or maybe there's a hygenic reason that flutes are not available for test drives.
Anyway - anyone know a shop in NYC carrying irish musical instruments?
that doesnt seem so strange. even where they do have irish flutes in stores (like lark in the morning), you'd never want it--they're junk.
they dont sell them in stores because the market isnt big enough, nor is the supply. the best irish flutes are all hand made, one at a time, by one or two people (at most). i have a friend who makes flutes, and he doesnt even have the time to make him one for himself. tim collins (pipe maker and player) tours all over the place and makes a mean set of pipes, but hasnt had time in at least ten years to make himself a replacement for his old set. stores cant afford to stock them, and makers dont have them available to send.
the only way to try them is to find people that play them--at a festival, workshop, or session--and ask them to let you play theirs.
how much do you want to spend? we could help you find a good flute to get you started.
I don't know anything about NYC music stores, but I do know that at least one musical instrument store (Woodwind and Brasswind in South Bend, IN) does let you try out their flutes. So at least there's no hygienic reason you couldn't find a store that lets you try flutes.
woodwind and brasswind is a great store, but no irish flutes. the last time i was there, they had most of their flutes up at a flute convention, no fair! fliedermaus is correct, as there is no hygenic reason--a simple swabbing of that green, instrument-cleaning alcohol jigger cleans up everything.
I believe he will let you return flutes if you don't like them - probably for the cost of the postage involved though. He has a good reputation amongst the online flute community and it is certainly worth at least looking through what he has got and maybe giving him a call.
Casey Burns Folk flutes are a great place to start for about $300 I think - Do a search on this site and on Chiff and Fipple (google it...) for folk flute and you can read a fair amount about them. They are real wood and sound good. About the only serious lack is a tuning slide which limits by how much they can tune. I have one as my campfire flute.
Otherwise go to a festival where you can try them out. (If you can't already play at least a little bit, then there's not much point to this either.) Not all flute players are willing to let other people play their flute, and some will only let other flute players (i.e.people themselves clutching some other flute...). Asking never hurt (much).
One flute maker I know swabs his flutes with 18 year old Bowmore to sterilize them. Makes the flutes smell great too...
Sorry, just checked, ยง375 for a new folk flute. I have his mopane (older) version which can still be ordered, but his boxwood (newer) version also looks good and unbeatable value for money.
http://www.gbfa.org/ ~ You'd have to ask, as I can't remember it all, time having passed, but the largest selection of wooden flutes I've seen outside of museums, and for sale, was in Boston, and some real beauties. That would have been back in the 1980s... There are also a number of makers in and around Massachusetts that make or also make 'Irish' opem system flutes, keyed or not...
I agree with the idea of going to a maker rather tahn trying to find something lying around in a music shop where they often haven't any heart or interest in this music in the first place... Best of luck, and the Burns idea sounds like an excellent first start...
Thanks for all the advice. $350 US is probably where I was hoping to come out, based on what I've read here on the Session. Sounds like the Burns is the right balance of quality and economy.
I've been at the whistle for 4 years or so now, but have never tried out a flute. I know the fingering is the same, but I imagine that the blowing (is there a technical word for this?) is an adjustment.
Yes, blowing a flute _is_ different to playing a whistle...
(understatement of the year from me here!)
But, to be honest, you'll never learn it without a reasonable flute to try it on. A Cr_p flute would just make it more likely that you give up in disgust, not realising that it may be the flute rather than you.
And not just the fingering, it is important to learn how to hold the flute correctly so that you can avoid future RSI, carpal tunnel, etc. google "Rockstro" grip. Don't rest on your shoulder - I know some people do, but I am sure they hurt for it...
And breathing is much more important than on the whistle because you have to move much more air with even less back-pressure. Don't try to economise on air - concentrate on getting the right tone. Once you can sound good you can work on everything else while making sure that you stay sounding good. Search these forums for hints. Also Chiff and Fipple. Get a real, live teacher if you can - even a Boehm (modern, metal flute) teacher might be better than none for a few first lessons.
Burn's folk flute - way to go! M&E also make well-regarded delrin (plastic) flutes in this price bracket and I believe Dave Copley too. I'd prefer the FF though - wood is just more beautiful - and I think it sounds better. Though that is a subject that a roomful of flute players can discuss for hours...
Any of those three would also be relatively simple to resell. Most flutes made in Pakistan make very good lampshades... (Read the Chiff and Fipple sticky thread on the subject - http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=34685 .)
You might also think about a Rob Forbes. He makes derlin (polymer) flutes that are quite nice (and under $400). I know a number of people that have one as at least their practice/travel flutes. http://forbesflutes.com/ (Some nice videos of Kevin Crawford playing one there too...)
I don't think this is only an issue with NY. In general in the US, music stores are trending towards being big box things like Sam Ash and Guitar Center.
They are killing the smaller shops. As a personal example, we still have an accordion shop in Chicago (actually in Oak Lawn-a suburb). The people at Sam Ash and Guitar center, as well as the major smaller shops don't get into irish accordions because the overwhelming demand is for Tejano accordians and Cajun to a lesser extent. I was told straight up the "accordions are just soooooo expensive" that the stores can't hold an inventory of them because they move very slowly.
Even the better smaller music stores in our area don't carry whistles....except souvenier quality junk with a Guiness logo around the High Holy Day. Our World Folk Music shop also goes forever on replenishing their stock. Its understandable that if there is little demand, they don't hold inventory. A sad situation. From what the stores sell, this is a Fender electric guitar and cheap acoustic guitar market in Chicago.
Actually, the same goes for piano stores. The traditional family owned have all been closing in the past few years.
My experience is that you have to find someone who reps the box in order to play a few of them since they are all different.
Whisltes, I order from the whistle stop on line and take my chances.
New York Irish Instrument Shop
New York Irish Instrument Shop
I've done my homework searching through old discussions, and though the subject has been raised, it does not look to have ever been solved.
Are there really no music stores in New York City which carry irish instruments (either new or second hand)? I can't imagine that's possible.
I'm looking to get a flute, but because I don't have too much experience with them (I play the whistle) I'd like to get a chance to play and experiment with one rather than buying sound unheard via the internet.
Or maybe there's a hygenic reason that flutes are not available for test drives.
Anyway - anyone know a shop in NYC carrying irish musical instruments?
# Posted on July 16th 2008 by a sheamuis
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
that doesnt seem so strange. even where they do have irish flutes in stores (like lark in the morning), you'd never want it--they're junk.
they dont sell them in stores because the market isnt big enough, nor is the supply. the best irish flutes are all hand made, one at a time, by one or two people (at most). i have a friend who makes flutes, and he doesnt even have the time to make him one for himself. tim collins (pipe maker and player) tours all over the place and makes a mean set of pipes, but hasnt had time in at least ten years to make himself a replacement for his old set. stores cant afford to stock them, and makers dont have them available to send.
the only way to try them is to find people that play them--at a festival, workshop, or session--and ask them to let you play theirs.
how much do you want to spend? we could help you find a good flute to get you started.
# Posted on July 16th 2008 by daiv
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
I don't know anything about NYC music stores, but I do know that at least one musical instrument store (Woodwind and Brasswind in South Bend, IN) does let you try out their flutes. So at least there's no hygienic reason you couldn't find a store that lets you try flutes.
# Posted on July 16th 2008 by fliedermaus
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Hmmm, cross post. Looks like the quest may be futile anyways.
# Posted on July 16th 2008 by fliedermaus
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Give up on N.Y., go to Boston...
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
woodwind and brasswind is a great store, but no irish flutes. the last time i was there, they had most of their flutes up at a flute convention, no fair! fliedermaus is correct, as there is no hygenic reason--a simple swabbing of that green, instrument-cleaning alcohol jigger cleans up everything.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by daiv
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
https://www.irishflutestore.com/
I believe he will let you return flutes if you don't like them - probably for the cost of the postage involved though. He has a good reputation amongst the online flute community and it is certainly worth at least looking through what he has got and maybe giving him a call.
Casey Burns Folk flutes are a great place to start for about $300 I think - Do a search on this site and on Chiff and Fipple (google it...) for folk flute and you can read a fair amount about them. They are real wood and sound good. About the only serious lack is a tuning slide which limits by how much they can tune. I have one as my campfire flute.
Otherwise go to a festival where you can try them out. (If you can't already play at least a little bit, then there's not much point to this either.) Not all flute players are willing to let other people play their flute, and some will only let other flute players (i.e.people themselves clutching some other flute...). Asking never hurt (much).
One flute maker I know swabs his flutes with 18 year old Bowmore to sterilize them. Makes the flutes smell great too...
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Sorry, just checked, ยง375 for a new folk flute. I have his mopane (older) version which can still be ordered, but his boxwood (newer) version also looks good and unbeatable value for money.
http://www.caseyburnsflutes.com/ff.php
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
http://www.gbfa.org/ ~ You'd have to ask, as I can't remember it all, time having passed, but the largest selection of wooden flutes I've seen outside of museums, and for sale, was in Boston, and some real beauties. That would have been back in the 1980s... There are also a number of makers in and around Massachusetts that make or also make 'Irish' opem system flutes, keyed or not...
I agree with the idea of going to a maker rather tahn trying to find something lying around in a music shop where they often haven't any heart or interest in this music in the first place... Best of luck, and the Burns idea sounds like an excellent first start...
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Thanks for all the advice. $350 US is probably where I was hoping to come out, based on what I've read here on the Session. Sounds like the Burns is the right balance of quality and economy.
I've been at the whistle for 4 years or so now, but have never tried out a flute. I know the fingering is the same, but I imagine that the blowing (is there a technical word for this?) is an adjustment.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by a sheamuis
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Yes, blowing a flute _is_ different to playing a whistle...
(understatement of the year from me here!)
But, to be honest, you'll never learn it without a reasonable flute to try it on. A Cr_p flute would just make it more likely that you give up in disgust, not realising that it may be the flute rather than you.
And not just the fingering, it is important to learn how to hold the flute correctly so that you can avoid future RSI, carpal tunnel, etc. google "Rockstro" grip. Don't rest on your shoulder - I know some people do, but I am sure they hurt for it...
And breathing is much more important than on the whistle because you have to move much more air with even less back-pressure. Don't try to economise on air - concentrate on getting the right tone. Once you can sound good you can work on everything else while making sure that you stay sounding good. Search these forums for hints. Also Chiff and Fipple. Get a real, live teacher if you can - even a Boehm (modern, metal flute) teacher might be better than none for a few first lessons.
Burn's folk flute - way to go! M&E also make well-regarded delrin (plastic) flutes in this price bracket and I believe Dave Copley too. I'd prefer the FF though - wood is just more beautiful - and I think it sounds better. Though that is a subject that a roomful of flute players can discuss for hours...
Any of those three would also be relatively simple to resell. Most flutes made in Pakistan make very good lampshades... (Read the Chiff and Fipple sticky thread on the subject - http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php?t=34685 .)
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
You might also think about a Rob Forbes. He makes derlin (polymer) flutes that are quite nice (and under $400). I know a number of people that have one as at least their practice/travel flutes. http://forbesflutes.com/ (Some nice videos of Kevin Crawford playing one there too...)
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by Reverend
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
I can get you a cheap Sam Murray for $6,000, as a favour.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by bodhran bliss
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
sh*t, i'll get you Sam Murray himself for $6.000.
# Posted on July 17th 2008 by a sheamuis
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
are you serious bodhran bliss? i might be looking.
# Posted on July 18th 2008 by daiv
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
I don't think this is only an issue with NY. In general in the US, music stores are trending towards being big box things like Sam Ash and Guitar Center.
They are killing the smaller shops. As a personal example, we still have an accordion shop in Chicago (actually in Oak Lawn-a suburb). The people at Sam Ash and Guitar center, as well as the major smaller shops don't get into irish accordions because the overwhelming demand is for Tejano accordians and Cajun to a lesser extent. I was told straight up the "accordions are just soooooo expensive" that the stores can't hold an inventory of them because they move very slowly.
Even the better smaller music stores in our area don't carry whistles....except souvenier quality junk with a Guiness logo around the High Holy Day. Our World Folk Music shop also goes forever on replenishing their stock. Its understandable that if there is little demand, they don't hold inventory. A sad situation. From what the stores sell, this is a Fender electric guitar and cheap acoustic guitar market in Chicago.
Actually, the same goes for piano stores. The traditional family owned have all been closing in the past few years.
My experience is that you have to find someone who reps the box in order to play a few of them since they are all different.
Whisltes, I order from the whistle stop on line and take my chances.
Just a sign of the times......
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by zippydw
Re: New York Irish Instrument Shop
Might as well give them a plug. Our accordion store is Italo-American. Family owned for years. God knows how long they can stay around.....
# Posted on July 21st 2008 by zippydw