No!
One of the reasons I joined my present band, Siansa, is because Peter O'Brien, the 1999 All-Ireland Bodhran Champion is a member. He makes it sing and is the best I have ever heard. They can, when played badly or with no discretion, ruin a session, but when played well they lift the music to new heights. Don't ever tell him I said this though!
Whoever...it doesn't matter... they obviously hadn't heard the likes of Kevin Crawford, John Joe Kelly, Mel Mercier (?)...
Although this little chestnut comes up every now and again, I'll give you my take on this.
There are two types of people who wield bodhrans:
There's Bodhran Thumpers, people who want to be part of a session, but just don't really have It, whatever It is, brains, ability to apply themselves to an instrument, Genuine love of The Music, concentration span longer than a fruit fly, or all of those, or whatever.
They don't actually play the Goatskin, they just whack it, and by law of probability, some of the beats should be nearly in time. There is no regard for proper technique, having often merely mastered the rudiments of how to hold the tipper and apply it to the skin. They haven't an inkling of what a jig is, compared to a reel, or any other tune type, and often will be observed to be happily, but haplessly, thumping along to a waltz, or even a slow air!
The meeker variant of this species will sit and thump quietly in the corner, docilely eating peanuts, and not really be too much of a nuisance, other than lowering the average IQ of the session participants by several points and thus introducing huge standard error bars. Fortunately I haven't noticed any punters come into the Woodman (our local session) with one of those portable electronic IQ-measuring devices, what are they called again? I always hide when I see one, in case they think I'm an escaped bodhran-thumper.
But unfortunately the virulent mutant strain of Loud Bodhran Basher is on the increase. These are often young alpha males, looking to mate with susceptible females. They can often be heard imitating real musicians with phrases like... "Let me tell you about the gig I played in Galway last summer..."
I saw a health warning on the telly the other night about them. These creatures roam around the streets of our towns and cities, pouncing on unsuspecting sessions, thumping their bodhrans like there was no tomorrow....which is usually the fate for the afflicted session - no tomorrow - cos no self respecting Governor ever wants that kind of carry-on repeated in his premises, thank you very much.
There's a sliding scale between the above and those who play bodhrans ...with tippers, not rippers. Many persons are stuck in this limbo, a sort of no mans land between being a thumper and a player...and only some make it to the other side...
....Which is, Bodhran Players. These also come in many varieties, but the big thing which seperates them from the thumpers, is, They Know the Tunes. They know how to play along to the tunes, sympathetically, and are an *Addition* to the session, rather than a diminution of it.
Better Bodhran Players not only know the tunes, but know a jig from a reel or a polka, know intuitively when not to play, and when to really give it stick. Often these people play other instruments, so they know what's going on anyway. The very Best of them actually produce within me a slight sense of optimism, that, after 1,000 million years of evolution, fighting and squirming from one species to the next, the human race finally does occasionally produce some gifted individuals which, I suppose, doesn't make the whole thing appear such a waste of time and energy and space and matter, after all.
I quite like having a good bodhran player around. Nice addition if it's played well. Horrible, of course, if not. But right now, what I most appreciate at the moment, is Danny's rant. Perhaps not succinct, but certainly spot on.
Thanks Zee - very unsuccint, don't I know it - just havin' some fun along the way of making Serious Points. I hate, hate, hate sh!t BP's, but *lorve* good BP's.
It sounds like the poster has had a few bad recent experiences..... What happened?
What do the other musicians in a session typically do when a banger, or an alpha male, or even a well intentioned but sadly unprepared beginner starts pounding a drum? Is there usually a leader that assertively steps in and dismisses the offender? Or do you just suffer with patience and in silence? Seriously, what is the frequency of these transgressions? I've been studying Irish music for about six months now and of the traditional recordings I hear... only about one in six include percussion,... but a good drummer in a session can probably contribute tastefully to what, about 2 of every three tunes? So, how can you tolerate a klutz who shows up and starts flailing away. I know I couldn't stand it for more than 10 minutes, tops...
I check in on the bodhran web site from time to time and I would say that 80% of the posters are new to the drum and only have a vague sense of how to play rhythm. I imagine they would have almost no sense of time and meter, no dynamics, it makes me cringe just thinking about it. I suggest they buy a pair of drumsticks and a practice pad and learn to play patterns that way which can be translated to the frame drum, but the impression I get is that all of them are chomping at the bit to get out and Just Do IT, Nike style, in a live setting. ugh!
I would be in favor of licensing the bodhran and having to pass a proficiency test before being allowed to purchase one.... Whom do I write to start the petition? I'm thinking of somebody in charge of all the goats in the world. Is there an Amnesty International for Goats, and would they assist.
I have in the past, when really annoyed, politely made admiring utterances about their bodhran, then asked to borrow it for a set of tunes. I'm not too bad, kind of reasonably OK, on the goat (I think! - maybe thumpers think the same thing!) once I get going. Upon it being returned to him, with profuse thanks and compliments on what a nice bodhran,etc., if he doesn't then shut up he may have learned a wee bit of technique.
Hummmm... we suffer in silence, Charlie.
We have sometimes a very experienced bodhran player but ... he likes showing off too much. Some other times a begginer shows up, and most of times (although I played the b. in our band) we have no percussion since I very rarely play the drums at the session. So, since this situation doesn't arise very often, we suffer in silence.
But I wonder, why is everyone always complaining about bodhrans?? We suffer very much often of screaming pipers and fiddlers and no one seems to complain....
The drum is perceived to be the easiest celtic instrument to learn and play. Anyone who can slap their knee or tap a coin in time to the music assumes they can play the drum. Plus you can get one off the internet for about $25.... With a flute or fiddle or whistle you know you stink right away. On a drum, you perceive your very first note to be the equal of Pedar Mercer's finest first note ever....
It's the other 5 minutes worth of notes that follow, which are the problem.
;) (WTFPIC) Easy targets, Toni. Nice, round, big, and the music doesn't really suffer if they're not there. Whereas everyone is pathetically grateful to have a piper around, even if they're personally a jerk or drunkard, because there are far too few of them, and how do you object to the fiddle in Irish music? LOL
There's a good point! I have recently encountered a new sub-species of goatwhacker that seem to take all of the oxygen out of a session by playing well - relentlessly.
They play in time, in the rhythm of the tune, and no good beat goes unpunished.
Sean O Riada and his pen knife
Sean O Riada and his pen knife
Does anyone agree with the great Sean O Riada in his opinion that the bodhran should be played with a pen knife.
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Ana
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
No!
One of the reasons I joined my present band, Siansa, is because Peter O'Brien, the 1999 All-Ireland Bodhran Champion is a member. He makes it sing and is the best I have ever heard. They can, when played badly or with no discretion, ruin a session, but when played well they lift the music to new heights. Don't ever tell him I said this though!
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Geoff Pollitt
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
Wasn't it Seamus Ennis who said that?
Whoever...it doesn't matter... they obviously hadn't heard the likes of Kevin Crawford, John Joe Kelly, Mel Mercier (?)...
Although this little chestnut comes up every now and again, I'll give you my take on this.
There are two types of people who wield bodhrans:
There's Bodhran Thumpers, people who want to be part of a session, but just don't really have It, whatever It is, brains, ability to apply themselves to an instrument, Genuine love of The Music, concentration span longer than a fruit fly, or all of those, or whatever.
They don't actually play the Goatskin, they just whack it, and by law of probability, some of the beats should be nearly in time. There is no regard for proper technique, having often merely mastered the rudiments of how to hold the tipper and apply it to the skin. They haven't an inkling of what a jig is, compared to a reel, or any other tune type, and often will be observed to be happily, but haplessly, thumping along to a waltz, or even a slow air!
The meeker variant of this species will sit and thump quietly in the corner, docilely eating peanuts, and not really be too much of a nuisance, other than lowering the average IQ of the session participants by several points and thus introducing huge standard error bars. Fortunately I haven't noticed any punters come into the Woodman (our local session) with one of those portable electronic IQ-measuring devices, what are they called again? I always hide when I see one, in case they think I'm an escaped bodhran-thumper.
But unfortunately the virulent mutant strain of Loud Bodhran Basher is on the increase. These are often young alpha males, looking to mate with susceptible females. They can often be heard imitating real musicians with phrases like... "Let me tell you about the gig I played in Galway last summer..."
I saw a health warning on the telly the other night about them. These creatures roam around the streets of our towns and cities, pouncing on unsuspecting sessions, thumping their bodhrans like there was no tomorrow....which is usually the fate for the afflicted session - no tomorrow - cos no self respecting Governor ever wants that kind of carry-on repeated in his premises, thank you very much.
There's a sliding scale between the above and those who play bodhrans ...with tippers, not rippers. Many persons are stuck in this limbo, a sort of no mans land between being a thumper and a player...and only some make it to the other side...
....Which is, Bodhran Players. These also come in many varieties, but the big thing which seperates them from the thumpers, is, They Know the Tunes. They know how to play along to the tunes, sympathetically, and are an *Addition* to the session, rather than a diminution of it.
Better Bodhran Players not only know the tunes, but know a jig from a reel or a polka, know intuitively when not to play, and when to really give it stick. Often these people play other instruments, so they know what's going on anyway. The very Best of them actually produce within me a slight sense of optimism, that, after 1,000 million years of evolution, fighting and squirming from one species to the next, the human race finally does occasionally produce some gifted individuals which, I suppose, doesn't make the whole thing appear such a waste of time and energy and space and matter, after all.
Optimistically,
Danny
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Alf Tupper
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
I quite like having a good bodhran player around. Nice addition if it's played well. Horrible, of course, if not. But right now, what I most appreciate at the moment, is Danny's rant. Perhaps not succinct, but certainly spot on.
Zina
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
Thanks Zee - very unsuccint, don't I know it - just havin' some fun along the way of making Serious Points. I hate, hate, hate sh!t BP's, but *lorve* good BP's.
Ah'm gontae bed...
Knackered.
...Da
....nn
...y...>yawn
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Alf Tupper
Free the Goats........!
It sounds like the poster has had a few bad recent experiences..... What happened?
What do the other musicians in a session typically do when a banger, or an alpha male, or even a well intentioned but sadly unprepared beginner starts pounding a drum? Is there usually a leader that assertively steps in and dismisses the offender? Or do you just suffer with patience and in silence? Seriously, what is the frequency of these transgressions? I've been studying Irish music for about six months now and of the traditional recordings I hear... only about one in six include percussion,... but a good drummer in a session can probably contribute tastefully to what, about 2 of every three tunes? So, how can you tolerate a klutz who shows up and starts flailing away. I know I couldn't stand it for more than 10 minutes, tops...
I check in on the bodhran web site from time to time and I would say that 80% of the posters are new to the drum and only have a vague sense of how to play rhythm. I imagine they would have almost no sense of time and meter, no dynamics, it makes me cringe just thinking about it. I suggest they buy a pair of drumsticks and a practice pad and learn to play patterns that way which can be translated to the frame drum, but the impression I get is that all of them are chomping at the bit to get out and Just Do IT, Nike style, in a live setting. ugh!
I would be in favor of licensing the bodhran and having to pass a proficiency test before being allowed to purchase one.... Whom do I write to start the petition? I'm thinking of somebody in charge of all the goats in the world. Is there an Amnesty International for Goats, and would they assist.
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
I have in the past, when really annoyed, politely made admiring utterances about their bodhran, then asked to borrow it for a set of tunes. I'm not too bad, kind of reasonably OK, on the goat (I think! - maybe thumpers think the same thing!) once I get going. Upon it being returned to him, with profuse thanks and compliments on what a nice bodhran,etc., if he doesn't then shut up he may have learned a wee bit of technique.
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Alf Tupper
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
Hummmm... we suffer in silence, Charlie.
We have sometimes a very experienced bodhran player but ... he likes showing off too much. Some other times a begginer shows up, and most of times (although I played the b. in our band) we have no percussion since I very rarely play the drums at the session. So, since this situation doesn't arise very often, we suffer in silence.
But I wonder, why is everyone always complaining about bodhrans?? We suffer very much often of screaming pipers and fiddlers and no one seems to complain....
# Posted on July 2nd 2003 by Toni Ribas
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
The drum is perceived to be the easiest celtic instrument to learn and play. Anyone who can slap their knee or tap a coin in time to the music assumes they can play the drum. Plus you can get one off the internet for about $25.... With a flute or fiddle or whistle you know you stink right away. On a drum, you perceive your very first note to be the equal of Pedar Mercer's finest first note ever....
It's the other 5 minutes worth of notes that follow, which are the problem.
# Posted on July 3rd 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
I reckon it's the most physically demanding yoke to play! One set of tunes gets me sweating!
# Posted on July 3rd 2003 by Alf Tupper
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
;) (WTFPIC) Easy targets, Toni. Nice, round, big, and the music doesn't really suffer if they're not there. Whereas everyone is pathetically grateful to have a piper around, even if they're personally a jerk or drunkard, because there are far too few of them, and how do you object to the fiddle in Irish music? LOL
zls
# Posted on July 3rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
depends how good the fiddler is...
# Posted on July 3rd 2003 by Alf Tupper
Re: Sean O Riada and his pen knife
> know intuitively when not to play
There's a good point! I have recently encountered a new sub-species of goatwhacker that seem to take all of the oxygen out of a session by playing well - relentlessly.
They play in time, in the rhythm of the tune, and no good beat goes unpunished.
Bob
# Posted on July 3rd 2003 by Laughtonb