I've just arrived in a new city (in the UK, no names no packdrill) and went, eager-eyed, to what used to be at least one of the Irish sessions in the place.
It now is something different from a session. It's not that people are not enjoying themselves - they are, but not all at the same time.
The domininant genre is now English trad music, often played beautifully but sometimes not. There is some Irish - played by some players - but not the majority, quite a lot of people singing, quite a lot of learners wanting to learn something. Nobody 'owns' the session (in the nicest possible sense of that word)
The problem is that the session now doesn't have a character, it's more like a (lack of) focus group or a group therapy sesssion. And also, because there is not a common purpose, too many people spend their time listening and not playing, or waiting for one person to finish - bow primed - so that they can start the next tune.
The obvious solution is to start up a new session and say from the start "we play Irish and we try to find tunes that we all play together. Come along and join in but don't come along and break it up"
I don't have any other solution to the 'broken' session above, but I wondered if anyone else had seen that kind of thing happen before.
If the session is in England then it's no wonder the dominant genre is English trad. If you had moved here you would find the dominant genre to be Scottish. I think you have answered your own qustion - Start an Irish session.
The folk at your current session may like that type of session so trying to change it would probably create waves. If you told us where it is it might be easier to help. Best of luck anyway.
There's enough Irish music around anyway without the dominance of ITM wrecking what is obviously a session evolving towards the much rarer genre of English Traditional Music
If this one has lost its focus, on tune playing, start another session.
The original session may eventually work things out & successfully combine trad genres.
Singing & harmony are grand . . . but by making it the reason for the sesson 'Irish' may get set off in a corner.
BTW ~ what are the 'learners' coming to learn?
ETM was the red squirrel of trad for a long time, not that easily come by in England, let alone anywhere else. Give it some slack and enjoy it, if it's being played half-way decently!
"The problem is.... too many people spend their time listening and not playing, or waiting for one person to finish - bow primed - so that they can start the next tune."
I don't like sessions like that, either. Those kind are almost like open mikes where one person gets up and no one else listens because they are too taken up in preparing their own solo. Pretty boring.
I would rather play all those so called tired ol' tunes all night every night with everyone involved tha listening to one solo after another.
On the other hand, I think I would enjoy a Traditional English Session that wasn't a collection of solos.
Is there no virtue in trying to rescue a session like the one described? It might be that a session could actually be in trouble...that it has drifted into a less that fun state. Couldn't someone come in and make a difference by applying something that is lacking? Leadership? Talent? Encouraging?
There are many 'sessions' like that all over england, some in places that there are not enough people to have their own session, like the local session back home in the wilds, some like one here in Bristol that people gravitate to because they are welcomed and people will play along with you. Any city big enough should have more than one session, it's just a case of finding the right people and being amicable enough to get on with them. Certainly around here the top 'Irish' players would not go to a session every week where they are not enjoying themselves and waiting for their turn to play.
I looked back at my posting and - in response to demands, and because I don't think I've been rude about the place - I'll tell you that the session is at the Half Moon in Oxford.
I think the Sunday night session could be a really good English trad session with a bit more herding and leading - and I'm very aware of the 'red squirrel' status that Nicholas mentioned. But it's not an Irish session at the moment and you can't make it one if it's not.
So question two: anybody else fancy helping to set up an Irish session in Oxford or nearby (Tues and Weds work best for me . And I've been to the Herschel already - nice, but a bit of a schlep from here.
Oxcart, if you go to the 'sessions' section of this site and click search, there are 3 others listed as well as the Half Moon in Oxford. Check the comments sections and you might find what you're looking for
The problem with focus is hard with a big session especially. If you can get two rather strong players to host it, commit to be there, whether paid or just for fun, it really helps. A box player with a good sense of timing for example, or someone who will start tapping a foot in time. A steady backer or another steady melody player with them, at least two. They can often reel the rest in....pardon the pun.
Why can't Irish AND English TM be played at a session? Perhaps the 'lack of focus' is about the individuals' character in general and is irrelevant to the style of music played. And I know this isn't going to sit easily with many posters on this site but perhaps the real lack of focus is that may session players have forgotten the reason why the landlord pays a nucleus of musicians/pays for the beer, etc.? It's to entertain the rest of the punters and not for the musos to entertain each other with obscure new tunes. Sorry people, but a lot of the punters (especially in English pubs/bars) wouldn't know an English tune from an Irish one, just like they won't know the difference between a reel, jig, polka, hornpipe, slip jig or Mazurka. And why should they? They are there to have a good night/afternoon out.
We often play Irish and English at our session. I prefer the Irish over yompy Morris tunes but some of the English stuff being played these days is excellent.
The good thing about this is it can introduce some really variety to a session and you hear music you might never have heard.
Domnull...went pretty good! It's better buskin with others tho rather than on your bill. The recent weather/job commitments ahve curtailed it a bit recently. I'll try and busk on Thursady if you're in York at all then
Wondered if you were talking about that one!
Rob's notes on the 3rd Friday Abingdon Arms, Wantage, look like a fair description of that one from last time I went.
The reason why I have forgotten the reason why the landlord pays me and gives me free beer for playing is that it this is totally outwith my normal experience.
Personnaly, I encourage an even mix of ETM, ITM, Scottish and Northumbrian tunes
BUT I do know of sessions where they will growl at you if you attempt any diddley-diddley, I also seem to find that the growlers woudn't be able to play ITM anyway as they can only play slow, easy tunes and aren't technically up to it.
when a session loses focus
when a session loses focus
I've just arrived in a new city (in the UK, no names no packdrill) and went, eager-eyed, to what used to be at least one of the Irish sessions in the place.
It now is something different from a session. It's not that people are not enjoying themselves - they are, but not all at the same time.
The domininant genre is now English trad music, often played beautifully but sometimes not. There is some Irish - played by some players - but not the majority, quite a lot of people singing, quite a lot of learners wanting to learn something. Nobody 'owns' the session (in the nicest possible sense of that word)
The problem is that the session now doesn't have a character, it's more like a (lack of) focus group or a group therapy sesssion. And also, because there is not a common purpose, too many people spend their time listening and not playing, or waiting for one person to finish - bow primed - so that they can start the next tune.
The obvious solution is to start up a new session and say from the start "we play Irish and we try to find tunes that we all play together. Come along and join in but don't come along and break it up"
I don't have any other solution to the 'broken' session above, but I wondered if anyone else had seen that kind of thing happen before.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by oxcart
Re: when a session loses focus
If the session is in England then it's no wonder the dominant genre is English trad. If you had moved here you would find the dominant genre to be Scottish. I think you have answered your own qustion - Start an Irish session.
The folk at your current session may like that type of session so trying to change it would probably create waves. If you told us where it is it might be easier to help. Best of luck anyway.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by bogman
Re: when a session loses focus
There's enough Irish music around anyway without the dominance of ITM wrecking what is obviously a session evolving towards the much rarer genre of English Traditional Music
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by I ♥ Dow
Re: when a session loses focus
Depends which city. If you're in Manchester you'll find some excellent Irish music. If not, I dunno.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Session focus
If this one has lost its focus, on tune playing, start another session.
The original session may eventually work things out & successfully combine trad genres.
Singing & harmony are grand . . . but by making it the reason for the sesson 'Irish' may get set off in a corner.
BTW ~ what are the 'learners' coming to learn?
*Complex melodies ~ often without harmonies.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Ben Steen
Asterik
* 'Irish' may get set off in a corner. *
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Ben Steen
Re: when a session loses focus
If its in Newcastle drop me a line .
Maybe its just the way this session has evolved ,talk to people start a new session ,move on life ,is too short
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by bazouki dave
Re: when a session loses focus
ETM was the red squirrel of trad for a long time, not that easily come by in England, let alone anywhere else. Give it some slack and enjoy it, if it's being played half-way decently!
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by nicholas
Re: when a session loses focus
"The problem is.... too many people spend their time listening and not playing, or waiting for one person to finish - bow primed - so that they can start the next tune."
I don't like sessions like that, either. Those kind are almost like open mikes where one person gets up and no one else listens because they are too taken up in preparing their own solo. Pretty boring.
I would rather play all those so called tired ol' tunes all night every night with everyone involved tha listening to one solo after another.
On the other hand, I think I would enjoy a Traditional English Session that wasn't a collection of solos.
Is there no virtue in trying to rescue a session like the one described? It might be that a session could actually be in trouble...that it has drifted into a less that fun state. Couldn't someone come in and make a difference by applying something that is lacking? Leadership? Talent? Encouraging?
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by feardearg
Re: when a session loses focus
ox
which 'new city in the UK'?
That might elicit more helpful contributions for you?
Cheers
D.
ps DJF, how's the busking going in York?
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by domhnall.
Re: when a session loses focus
There are many 'sessions' like that all over england, some in places that there are not enough people to have their own session, like the local session back home in the wilds, some like one here in Bristol that people gravitate to because they are welcomed and people will play along with you. Any city big enough should have more than one session, it's just a case of finding the right people and being amicable enough to get on with them. Certainly around here the top 'Irish' players would not go to a session every week where they are not enjoying themselves and waiting for their turn to play.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by tlittlewazzock
Re: when a session loses focus
Some of the best musicians and best session Ive ever been to are in England (and English born)
It depends where you are but I found there to be tonnes of deadly sessions around.
That session sunds like a bit of a jam session to me, ditch it and move on to one that is more your thing.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by bb
Re: when a session loses focus
I looked back at my posting and - in response to demands, and because I don't think I've been rude about the place - I'll tell you that the session is at the Half Moon in Oxford.
I think the Sunday night session could be a really good English trad session with a bit more herding and leading - and I'm very aware of the 'red squirrel' status that Nicholas mentioned. But it's not an Irish session at the moment and you can't make it one if it's not.
So question two: anybody else fancy helping to set up an Irish session in Oxford or nearby (Tues and Weds work best for me
cheers
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by oxcart
Re: when a session loses focus
Oxcart, if you go to the 'sessions' section of this site and click search, there are 3 others listed as well as the Half Moon in Oxford. Check the comments sections and you might find what you're looking for
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by bogman
Re: when a session loses focus
The problem with focus is hard with a big session especially. If you can get two rather strong players to host it, commit to be there, whether paid or just for fun, it really helps. A box player with a good sense of timing for example, or someone who will start tapping a foot in time. A steady backer or another steady melody player with them, at least two. They can often reel the rest in....pardon the pun.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by irisnevins
Re: when a session loses focus
Why can't Irish AND English TM be played at a session? Perhaps the 'lack of focus' is about the individuals' character in general and is irrelevant to the style of music played. And I know this isn't going to sit easily with many posters on this site but perhaps the real lack of focus is that may session players have forgotten the reason why the landlord pays a nucleus of musicians/pays for the beer, etc.? It's to entertain the rest of the punters and not for the musos to entertain each other with obscure new tunes. Sorry people, but a lot of the punters (especially in English pubs/bars) wouldn't know an English tune from an Irish one, just like they won't know the difference between a reel, jig, polka, hornpipe, slip jig or Mazurka. And why should they? They are there to have a good night/afternoon out.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by pinch of snuff
Re: when a session loses focus
We often play Irish and English at our session. I prefer the Irish over yompy Morris tunes but some of the English stuff being played these days is excellent.
The good thing about this is it can introduce some really variety to a session and you hear music you might never have heard.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: when a session loses focus
Domnull...went pretty good! It's better buskin with others tho rather than on your bill. The recent weather/job commitments ahve curtailed it a bit recently. I'll try and busk on Thursady if you're in York at all then
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by I ♥ Dow
Re: when a session loses focus
Wondered if you were talking about that one!
Rob's notes on the 3rd Friday Abingdon Arms, Wantage, look like a fair description of that one from last time I went.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by TomB-R
Re: when a session loses focus
The reason why I have forgotten the reason why the landlord pays me and gives me free beer for playing is that it this is totally outwith my normal experience.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by nicholas
Re: when a session loses focus
Personnaly, I encourage an even mix of ETM, ITM, Scottish and Northumbrian tunes
BUT I do know of sessions where they will growl at you if you attempt any diddley-diddley, I also seem to find that the growlers woudn't be able to play ITM anyway as they can only play slow, easy tunes and aren't technically up to it.
# Posted on July 10th 2008 by geoffwright
Re: when a session loses focus
Sessions don't lose focus for me unless I take off my glasses.
# Posted on July 10th 2008 by fauxcelt