I've been lurking around here for quite a while, learning tunes and reading discussions but keeping my distance...
I've been playing whistles for quite a while now (mainly of the low variety) but have always harboured a desire to play the pipes. I've been put off mainly by the price of getting a worthwhile set (I'd like to get a decent half-set) and the thought that it could be a very long time before I could actually play them well, but I'm thinking more and more about giving in and buying a set for myself.
I'm still on a budget and the David Daye pipes seem to be the only really affordable option for me. I've trawled the net looking for opinions on his pipes and have seen a lot of positive things but also some negatives. The negative comments mainly seem to have been made a few years ago. I guess what I'm looking for is an up-to-date opinion on how good these pipes really are. Is his half-set worth the money?
I'd love if someone with a little experience could give me a rough idea of how long I'd need to practice before I could knock something musical-sounding out of all of that plumbing. Bear in mind that I've been playing a low D whistle for quite a while and am competent with my rolls and crans. (I know about all of that 21 years stuff but don't believe it, and yes, I'm aware that the fingering on pipes is different to fingering on whistle...)
Should I get a David Daye half set, or just go onto ebay and get myself a Dixon 3-piece flute and save myself, my family, my neighbours and their pets a lot of headaches?
Read the above, read your bio, and best of luck to you.
I have a Daye half-set, it is fun to practice and play upon. I find the sound pleasing, and do not bother comparing it with other pipes at five times the price. Daye's have their distinct sound and tone, and I have no complaints. They seem to be reasonably stable to changes in the weather where I live, too.
Concerning traditional sets, you may find with the marked differences between different wooden chanters with different reeds that you will still, if you are smart, have to listen to a player playing upon a particular set to find something you like. In a sense, there is no one particular exact "sound" that is definative for uilleanns.
(This is not meant to deny that there are generalities of the sound that uilleann pipes must possess to sound "right".)
You can hear people playing Daye sets at Youtube and at Daye's site. Google "penny chanter".
PS: From your bio -- if you think whistle to flute will be a "baby step" --- you will learn, young man, oh how you will learn!
Hey LowWhistler,
Depending where you are in Canada there are a number of pipers and piping clubs that can put you on the right road. Getting a bit of helpful advice is essential really.
If you know you've got the determination, take up the pipes, or you will regret the choice.
Regarding the flute: I second Rook and Crackpot. You will be able to play the tunes faster than on the pipes, but baby-step is definitively a wrong comparison. The next thing is that I feel that moving to the flute brings you away from pipe technique. It won't faciliate the transition, it will delay it. And finally do consider the Dixon. Just for dabbling, there are way cheaper options, the cheapest being making yourself one of these http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
If you are more serious on playing the flute read my profile for my opinion on the Dixon, but again, if you want to play pipes, play pipes.
Daye chanters are fine. Most of the negatives you read about from a few years back came from ONE person who shall remain nameless. That particular person was a loudmouthed American neophyte who lived at least 1000 miles from the nearest accomplished piper and didn't know what he was talking about, and that's the kindest thing I can say about it. I know several successful piping students who have done very well indeed with David's chanters because they had the humility, work ethic, and access to instruction(!). If you have those three things already, than go ahead and get a Daye set and get on with piping.
my uncle, playing the pipes, has been playing them and performing on them for years. he does not consider himself a piper, but a flute player. after many years, he is about ready to put himself on the list for a full set of pipes by another maker.
get your practice set. for the price, a david daye set of pipes is a better instrument than a dixon flute.
it could be a while before you play tunes, or it could not. my uncle picked them up and within a few months was performing on them. i think he is an exception.
go for your dream. dont limit yourself by what you think your neighbors will like!
I promised myself 20 years ago that I'd learn the pipes one day. But I'm coming round the opinion that it might just be the flute instead. I have no illusions as to which might be harder or easier, that doesn't concern me.
But I've been playing the whistle for a while now and really getting into it. I only really started playing the whistle to get a different angle on the how to play the fiddle and it's been brilliant for that, but now I'm appreciating it in it's own right. And, pipers might disagree with me here, but there's not really much you can do on the pipes (chanter anyway) that you can't do on the flute. Where as there is plenty of stuff in flute music that's out of reach to the pipes. Dynamics and attack to name a couple.
The one thing about the pipes that I find intriguing though is the continuous sound. And perversely, that's the trouble I have with the whistle, My fiddle playing owes more to the pipes than any instrument, so I'm used to not breathing. But having to convert breathing into something musical, something percussive, something positive is a great challenge and joy.
Cheers for the quick responses! (and the lack of smart-ass responses!)
First off let me clarify that I mean absolutely no disrespect to the flautists here! I only meant that the step from low whistle to flute is less severe than the step from whistle to pipes.
I know I'm not going to pick up a flute and instantly (or ever) play like Mr. Molloy, but at least I'll have the right fingerwork. I'll have to work on embouchure and breathing, but won't have to worry about bellows and bags and elbows and drones and reeds and little fingers and thumbs etc. etc.
I'm craving something that offers more expressive possibilities than my whistles... it's either going to be a flute or pipes, but I still haven't decided. ...
llig, I agree that you can do pipe technique on the flute, but I think you can never get it to sound like the pipes. So if you're into the pipes for the sound, the flute is a bad replacement.
Rook, there's enough suspense on the flute, starting with the question "how is it going to sound today?"
I hope you enjoy the instrument, whichever it will be
Yes, you'll never get anything but the pipes to sound like the pipes, and what a sound. A good set, in tune, played well really is something. Nothing could ever be a replacement.
But I'm wondering about getting a good range of the music out of two instruments. There is much cross over between the flute and the pipes. And much cross over between the pipes and fiddle. But not much cross over between the flute and fiddle.
It's a difficult question and not altogether hypothetical. Ideally I'd like to play fiddle, flute and pipes. But I simply don't have the time. So if you could just choose two out of the three, your best spread of understaning the music is fiddle and flute.
Perhaps the issue on flute is less "how is IT going to sound today?" and more "how is Rook going to make it sound today?"
Since my illustrious Dixon is made of select delrinwood from the exotic polypenco tree, I really cannot blame the weather, as I might with the cane reeds of my pipes.
(Of course, after hearing someone pick up my pipes and make them sound like I only wish I could, even that is a bit self-deluding, eh?)
-this was of course the implied meaning, but it is better for the ego when the syntax blames the flute, isn't it
Don't you care about the environment AT ALL??? Delrinwood, pfft, you know there was a reason they shifted to blackwood!! Do you really want to tell your grandchildren that you are guilty of extincting Polypencus dixonia?
But what I originally meant is that the flute provides so many possibilities for mistakes (lip tension, lip position, shape of the lips, ....) that it is simply quite daunting to play consistently with good tone, without even taking the weather in regard, hence the how is it gonna sound today.
I'm late on this thread but I must say that I've seen a number of beginners buy David Daye pipes and the pipes always perform very well.
The chanter bore design and reed design work well together, which is more than you can say for many fancy-looking
wooden chanters that cost many times more.
And they're not just for beginners to practice on: there's a guy who plays a David Daye half-set in a professional band and it sounds terrific in his hands.
The Achilles Heel of the Daye sets I've seen has been the bellows, bag, and stocks. The funky PVC stocks are often popping out of the bag and have to be re-tied in. A number of beginners I've seen have had endless headaches from this stuff.
So if I were starting today (rather than 30 years ago) I would buy a David Daye chanter but get a top-quality bag (from Michael MacHarg for example), stocks, and bellows. You'll never regret it. It makes it so much easier for the beginner to not have to worry about the "air delivery system" and be able to focus on playing.
Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Attention pipers who started on whistles....
I've been lurking around here for quite a while, learning tunes and reading discussions but keeping my distance...
I've been playing whistles for quite a while now (mainly of the low variety) but have always harboured a desire to play the pipes. I've been put off mainly by the price of getting a worthwhile set (I'd like to get a decent half-set) and the thought that it could be a very long time before I could actually play them well, but I'm thinking more and more about giving in and buying a set for myself.
I'm still on a budget and the David Daye pipes seem to be the only really affordable option for me. I've trawled the net looking for opinions on his pipes and have seen a lot of positive things but also some negatives. The negative comments mainly seem to have been made a few years ago. I guess what I'm looking for is an up-to-date opinion on how good these pipes really are. Is his half-set worth the money?
I'd love if someone with a little experience could give me a rough idea of how long I'd need to practice before I could knock something musical-sounding out of all of that plumbing. Bear in mind that I've been playing a low D whistle for quite a while and am competent with my rolls and crans. (I know about all of that 21 years stuff but don't believe it, and yes, I'm aware that the fingering on pipes is different to fingering on whistle...)
Should I get a David Daye half set, or just go onto ebay and get myself a Dixon 3-piece flute and save myself, my family, my neighbours and their pets a lot of headaches?
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by LowWhistler
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Read the above, read your bio, and best of luck to you.
I have a Daye half-set, it is fun to practice and play upon. I find the sound pleasing, and do not bother comparing it with other pipes at five times the price. Daye's have their distinct sound and tone, and I have no complaints. They seem to be reasonably stable to changes in the weather where I live, too.
Concerning traditional sets, you may find with the marked differences between different wooden chanters with different reeds that you will still, if you are smart, have to listen to a player playing upon a particular set to find something you like. In a sense, there is no one particular exact "sound" that is definative for uilleanns.
(This is not meant to deny that there are generalities of the sound that uilleann pipes must possess to sound "right".)
You can hear people playing Daye sets at Youtube and at Daye's site. Google "penny chanter".
PS: From your bio -- if you think whistle to flute will be a "baby step" --- you will learn, young man, oh how you will learn!
All the best.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Rook
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
It's a baby step in relation to the move from whistle to pipes though!
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by rob_handel
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Errm! no it isn't... That is if you want to play the flute properly...
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Hey LowWhistler,
Depending where you are in Canada there are a number of pipers and piping clubs that can put you on the right road. Getting a bit of helpful advice is essential really.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Patkiwi
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
If you know you've got the determination, take up the pipes, or you will regret the choice.
Regarding the flute: I second Rook and Crackpot. You will be able to play the tunes faster than on the pipes, but baby-step is definitively a wrong comparison. The next thing is that I feel that moving to the flute brings you away from pipe technique. It won't faciliate the transition, it will delay it. And finally do consider the Dixon. Just for dabbling, there are way cheaper options, the cheapest being making yourself one of these
http://dougsflutes.googlepages.com/
If you are more serious on playing the flute read my profile for my opinion on the Dixon, but again, if you want to play pipes, play pipes.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by TMB
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Daye chanters are fine. Most of the negatives you read about from a few years back came from ONE person who shall remain nameless. That particular person was a loudmouthed American neophyte who lived at least 1000 miles from the nearest accomplished piper and didn't know what he was talking about, and that's the kindest thing I can say about it. I know several successful piping students who have done very well indeed with David's chanters because they had the humility, work ethic, and access to instruction(!). If you have those three things already, than go ahead and get a Daye set and get on with piping.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Seosamh Ui Sinan
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
here is a sound sample of david daye pipes:
http://cdbaby.com/mp3lofi/kells-02.m3u (from http://cdbaby.com/cd/kells )
my uncle, playing the pipes, has been playing them and performing on them for years. he does not consider himself a piper, but a flute player. after many years, he is about ready to put himself on the list for a full set of pipes by another maker.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by daiv
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
get your practice set. for the price, a david daye set of pipes is a better instrument than a dixon flute.
it could be a while before you play tunes, or it could not. my uncle picked them up and within a few months was performing on them. i think he is an exception.
go for your dream. dont limit yourself by what you think your neighbors will like!
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by daiv
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
I promised myself 20 years ago that I'd learn the pipes one day. But I'm coming round the opinion that it might just be the flute instead. I have no illusions as to which might be harder or easier, that doesn't concern me.
But I've been playing the whistle for a while now and really getting into it. I only really started playing the whistle to get a different angle on the how to play the fiddle and it's been brilliant for that, but now I'm appreciating it in it's own right. And, pipers might disagree with me here, but there's not really much you can do on the pipes (chanter anyway) that you can't do on the flute. Where as there is plenty of stuff in flute music that's out of reach to the pipes. Dynamics and attack to name a couple.
The one thing about the pipes that I find intriguing though is the continuous sound. And perversely, that's the trouble I have with the whistle, My fiddle playing owes more to the pipes than any instrument, so I'm used to not breathing. But having to convert breathing into something musical, something percussive, something positive is a great challenge and joy.
(plus ... pipes? ... what a feckin palaver)
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Cheers for the quick responses! (and the lack of smart-ass responses!)
First off let me clarify that I mean absolutely no disrespect to the flautists here! I only meant that the step from low whistle to flute is less severe than the step from whistle to pipes.
I know I'm not going to pick up a flute and instantly (or ever) play like Mr. Molloy, but at least I'll have the right fingerwork. I'll have to work on embouchure and breathing, but won't have to worry about bellows and bags and elbows and drones and reeds and little fingers and thumbs etc. etc.
I'm craving something that offers more expressive possibilities than my whistles... it's either going to be a flute or pipes, but I still haven't decided. ...
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by LowWhistler
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
good luck with your thinking. let us know if you go for flute, and we could help you figure out what works best in your budget.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by daiv
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Actually a keyed flute need the little fingers and at least one thumb too...
Good luck.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by Crackpot
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
No bag? No bellows? No drones? No reeds? No little fingers? No thumbs? No etc. etc.?Boring boring boring...
And no reeds? Where is the suspense?
"Y' lose a heap o' living when y' know just what comes next."
Best of luck, LowWhistler.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by Rook
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
llig, I agree that you can do pipe technique on the flute, but I think you can never get it to sound like the pipes. So if you're into the pipes for the sound, the flute is a bad replacement.
Rook, there's enough suspense on the flute
, starting with the question "how is it going to sound today?"
I hope you enjoy the instrument, whichever it will be
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by TMB
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
Yes, you'll never get anything but the pipes to sound like the pipes, and what a sound. A good set, in tune, played well really is something. Nothing could ever be a replacement.
But I'm wondering about getting a good range of the music out of two instruments. There is much cross over between the flute and the pipes. And much cross over between the pipes and fiddle. But not much cross over between the flute and fiddle.
It's a difficult question and not altogether hypothetical. Ideally I'd like to play fiddle, flute and pipes. But I simply don't have the time. So if you could just choose two out of the three, your best spread of understaning the music is fiddle and flute.
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
TMB: I must agree with your point. Yet still ---
Perhaps the issue on flute is less "how is IT going to sound today?" and more "how is Rook going to make it sound today?"
Since my illustrious Dixon is made of select delrinwood from the exotic polypenco tree, I really cannot blame the weather, as I might with the cane reeds of my pipes.
(Of course, after hearing someone pick up my pipes and make them sound like I only wish I could, even that is a bit self-deluding, eh?)
# Posted on July 8th 2008 by Rook
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
How am I going to make it sound today?
-this was of course the implied meaning, but it is better for the ego when the syntax blames the flute, isn't it
Don't you care about the environment AT ALL??? Delrinwood, pfft, you know there was a reason they shifted to blackwood!! Do you really want to tell your grandchildren that you are guilty of extincting Polypencus dixonia?
But what I originally meant is that the flute provides so many possibilities for mistakes (lip tension, lip position, shape of the lips, ....) that it is simply quite daunting to play consistently with good tone, without even taking the weather in regard, hence the how is it gonna sound today.
# Posted on July 9th 2008 by TMB
Re: Attention pipers who started on whistles....
I'm late on this thread but I must say that I've seen a number of beginners buy David Daye pipes and the pipes always perform very well.
The chanter bore design and reed design work well together, which is more than you can say for many fancy-looking
wooden chanters that cost many times more.
And they're not just for beginners to practice on: there's a guy who plays a David Daye half-set in a professional band and it sounds terrific in his hands.
The Achilles Heel of the Daye sets I've seen has been the bellows, bag, and stocks. The funky PVC stocks are often popping out of the bag and have to be re-tied in. A number of beginners I've seen have had endless headaches from this stuff.
So if I were starting today (rather than 30 years ago) I would buy a David Daye chanter but get a top-quality bag (from Michael MacHarg for example), stocks, and bellows. You'll never regret it. It makes it so much easier for the beginner to not have to worry about the "air delivery system" and be able to focus on playing.
# Posted on July 12th 2008 by Richard D Cook