I had some discussion threads I really wanted to post about three weeks ago, before I went into my temporary self-imposed exile ... gone now ... old age ...
Anyway, never mind all that. There's been lots of talk about classical recently. Goodness knows why - there *is* only one "classical" composer in any case (using the term as loosely as any self-respecting Cornish blow-in could wish ) and that's Bach. (Although I do like the odd Trauer Synfonie here and there and a bit of Shost 15 and the Eroica and anything by Webern [*with* the 'n' please] and ...)
So ... never mind all that classical rubbish. What I like about this diddley stuff is that it *does* all sound the same, and every tune has something unique and subtly different that makes you think - "ooh, *that's* a different way of putting it". It's the little things that make it great.
I have just listened to De Danann's first album followed by Scullion's first album followed by Sweeney's Mens first album and now I'm going to bed. Night night all.
Scullion, Strayaway - that brings back memories. Our little crappy folk group played before them in Limerick once. They wouldn't let us adjust anything after their sound check, so we sounded crappier than usual.
Still, they were great!
And Sweeny's Men - you're going back in time there. Pretty soon you'll be listening to Tir na N'Og
Oh, do we *have* to talk about classical ? Can't we talk about jazz, for a change ? Or, something really interesting, like, man, I heard there's a genre called 'noise'. It's not like real noise, it's a music genre - anybody heard any ? I dunno if I have or not, because I dunno what it's supposed to sound like...anyway, seems that it's recently spawned a new genre, called 'junk noise'.
I feel I'm missing out. Are all the youngsters downloading junk noise tracks these days without me knowing it ??? If I knew what it was, maybe I could jump on the bandwagon and play some ? I mean, I feel old and helpless. I don't even know whether noise is meant to be a sub-sub-genre of jazz or art music or maybe it's come out of death-metal or garage or psycho-punk ? I'm clueless...
Wolfbird, it's a sub-genre of experimental electronic music. It's avant-garde stuff, not really the kind of thing the neighborhood kids are listening to on their iPods.
You might be able to play some if you have an electric guitar, a tape deck, a blender, a thick rubber glove, an old amp that you don't like, and a fork.
Wonderful Screetch ! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction....'Noiseheads', 'Harshnoise', 'Audioterror', 'Demons have golden eyes'.....I'm listening to heavy summer rain hitting the windowpane about two feet away, and Tommy Peoples fiddling quietly in the background....music to my ears...ah, now it's changed to Stefan grossman picking ragtime, nice ambient noise...is nice noises a genre yet...honey for ears...
Ah, well, I suppose if you're expecting to like or enjoy it, you're likely missing the point....seems to me, it's not about 'music as entertainment'...maybe it's a bit like Duchamp's urinal as a work of art, or similar Dada and conceptual art, that's designed to shake the viewer out of their 'normal' responses...like a white square on a white background...is it art ? if not, what is it ?....forces you to think about how art is defined, how 'meaning' is formed, and so forth...
Personally, I find that sort of sound is painful. Like my vacuum cleaner; I'd prefer silence. To compare with painting, silence is the blank white canvas. If you add a mark, is that an improvement, or a desecration ?
I know what you mean, wolfbird, but I don't like music that just exists to make a point. The thing is, once a point is made then it's made. Music is listened to over and over again. Why would you want to hear the same point over and over again?
Well, I think it's an interesting area... you know, you've got the big pool of noise, one of the reasons I find city life intolerable, the constant pain of loud unpleasant noise, trains, lorries, construction machinery, muzak,......and then there's the historical project called music, where instrument makers have tried to discover ways of extracting pleasant sounds from equipment, eliminating noise,and musicians have tried to manipulate the sounds into sequences and blends that evoke emotions...it touches on one of the differences between fiddling and playing violin, the gritty texture, the noise that is a desirable quality rather than a fault...
Fortunately or unfortunately, Mariska Hargitay, I have no crickets chirring, but a plethora, (haha) of cockerels crowing outside and two very different musical genres playing simultaneously on my computer...and a bit of poetry by Tagore
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up
into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason
has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action....
Ah Varese ... that takes me back [dreamy look comes into eyes]
Anyway, I get plenty of noise around here - bloody blackbird pecking at my roof (for some odd reason), crows pecking at the mirrors on my car, pigeons, foxes shrieking in the middle of the night, bloody badgers (cull them now, I say), magpies - who really *do* chatter in my garden - donkeys braying a field or two away, geese, chickens, owls in the night, not to mention my *stupid* cats ... too damn noisy in the country ... think I'll buy a shotgun ...
... and Beethoven and Haydn and all that crew just nicked the tunes from people like us, anyway ... when they could be bothered with a tune:
Stravinsky (I think) said something like "the trouble with Beethoven is that he couldn't write tunes"
And here's Richard Gill (Australian conductor):
someone said to me once, 'Beethoven of course couldn't write a melody, he wasn't a melodist, you know'
Ah, just woke up to another rainy day in Fermanagh, seems like Drive The Cold Winter Away is this mornings first choice followed, maybe, by Pumpkinhead (anyone remember them?). Tir na nOg - fabulous band, appearing in Enniskillen 27th Sept. Sh*t!, what's that noise, sounds like a kango hammer ripping through sheet steel, no, it's the kids next door practicing on their guitars, sorry folks, have to go and join in.
Dum di dum dum dah, dye dum dee thriddlydy eye diddle dee... Oh, sorry, lost my concentration...
Did you find your whistle? I'd give it a good clean before you start tootin' on that...
Hmmmm, let's see, what marinade? Should I make roast potatoes?
Hey Stray ~ p*ssn' down rainin' here too... Ben, for mximum damage, if you can find one, an 8 guage. No, considering your stature and delicate nature ~ a 14, and a very fine bird shot of course... Now, back to the bird. I decided on a smokey marinade with a bit of sweet temperature in it... I've also got the perfect tatties for roasting and some lovely goose fat. If you're passing by, there's enough for guests, and maybe you can get me off my ass to retake the music more seriously...
I thought music was supposed to be organized noise in the first place
Maybe I could ask why there are all of these comments about all of these different types and styles and genres of music on this discussion board but I know that I am not the only member of this web site who likes to play many different types of music and more than one instrument.
This is really interesting to me because the only "classical" music I have any desire at all to play -- ever, like in the last 12 years or so -- is Bach, particularly the Unaccompanied Sonatas and Partitas. I don't do it much, mainly because I prefer to spend my time learning fiddle tunes, but I always enjoy it when I do. When I play Bach consciously, it's like I'm looking into a perfectly-cut jewel.
Yes, I know that, D.J.F. But others - some of whom live in the land blessed above all (clue: I'm half Cornish; the good half)- will insist that that's pedantic. Hence my sweeping caveat in my opening post.
Ben, count yourself lucky, I've just been invaded by the biggest flock of starlings I've ever seen - the ornithological equivalent of a Facebook-advertised Torbay beach party (though without the m/c parents in their 4x4s looking to pick up their darlings later on). They're going absolutely wild about something growing or hiding in the hedgerows and, whenever I walk past, leap out with a caterwauling that suggests they've discovered the starlings' equivalent of póitín and I'm the Revenue man.
I'm loving Arvo Part and Tavener...hooray for contemporary classical!!! But yeah, the diddley stuff is nice too...I bet none of you ever thought I would like classical. I love both. Neither is my favourite.
Great that there are still so many starlings around. Apparently in some parts over here they are becoming threatened by this so-called 'garden-grabbing', where developers buy up houses with large gardens in order to build in the garden, sometimes even knocking the existing house down in order to fit more in. Starlings, being garden birds, can be adversely affected by this.
Still, this present housing slump might put paid to that, eh? Must look on the bright side.
Pärt, eh? Yet another name which brings back memories. Haven't heard any of his stuff for years and years. Probably decades.
Tavener's 'made it' in the popular sense, but personally I'd rather Pärt.
Look, Alley, I was supposed to be playing TUNES now, and here you've got me thinking about all this minimalist nonsense. Minimalist, indeed! It goes on for hours!
No, this is a cracker - I ordered a pizza the other night, a thin and crusty Supreme, and now I've got Diana Ross on my doorstep demanding to know what 'benhall' means.
Tavener's posturing and some of his stuff I find annoying, but when (to me) it's good, it's very good - such as Song For Athene, the Diana's funeral one.
Nigel Kennedy may be good, for all I know. The tat shops in Canterbury, where I lived for a bit, didn't give me the chance to like him. They pumped out Kennedy playing in Vivaldi's Four Seasons non-stop till I felt a fathomless hate for all involved. I've never wanted to hear The Four Seasons again, played by Nigel Kennedy, Jimmy Carter's daughter, the Emperor Nero or anybody else.
Kennedy: FWIW I tend to think he has been a bit of a prat in many ways - weird hair, fake accent, strange behaviour. But ...
He's one of the best classical fiddlers of all time.
I haven't now got any recordings of Kreisler. Used to have, but vinyl, and goodness knows what happened to them. Old style. Fine, but not really my taste. I don't listen to music much anyway.
Oistrakh, Milstein, Perlman, Hahn, Barton-Pine, Szeryng, now those are class acts and class fiddlers...
no need to dye their hair or resort to stage antics to attract attention...
they let the music speak for itself
the old Kreisler vinyl really is somewhat dated, not only in an audiophonic sort of way, but stylistically as well..all those slides and unnecessary shifting and such...
still really grabs you, though
People who like Perlman usually don't like Stern, and vice versa. I'm a Stern man, meself. Proper fiddle player. I really don't like the tone that Perlman got, or the nasty syrupiness of it all. Way too cloying.
But I agree about the tune. Nice link. Just learned it myself. Thanks.
Y're right - Stern did do the fiddle for Fiddler on the Roof. And I'll have to see if I can track down those trios. You never know, they might convert me. Since they converted you.
"People who like Perlman usually don't like Stern," eh? Well, apart from the fact that I have recordings of both that I love, and have heard others which disappointed me, I think this is a very dodgy proposition anyway. I'd love to subject Ben to blind hearings (deaf? Could be more appropriate I s'pose...) of Perlman vs. Stern in similar repertoire. Pound to a penny he couldn't tell which was which in a million years. In the studio, Perlman and Stern were like the rest of us. Good days, rough days. I used to think I didn't like Stern's recordings, then I heard him one night in the Festival Hall (or was it Albert? My eyes are dim...) in Brahms' Violin Concerto (not my favourite piece, but hey!) Wonderful he was. Poetic, total grasp of the structure, blah. Started to see him in a whole new light, and it opened my eyes to the fact that what I thought were my "preferences" were based on nowt more than plain, pig-ignorant prejudice. He had his own musical voice and he interpreted the works he played in his own individualistic way. Now who are we in eye tee em to criticise that! Saying you don't like Stern but like Perlman, or vice versa, is as stupid as saying that you like Kevin Burke but not Tommy Peoples. All you're doing is showing that you don't know how to listen to music.
there is a documentary called something like Mao to Mozart that (well) documents a Stern visit to China...he seems to be a very giving person with his music, money, and talent...
I think he was, Sunnybear. Apparently very encouraging of others.
And Steve, I tend to agree with most of what you've said above. Some of it's a bit harsh, and I personally think it's fair enough to like one or other of Tommy Peoples and Kevin Burke and not the other one. They do have, after all, very different styles.
Did you try that test someone linked to on here once where they played *very* short clips of several well-known flute players (Harry B was one of them) and you had to guess which was which. It was surprisingly easy. I mean that. I was surprised.
But, it's true that I need to keep more of an open mind than I sometimes do. So thank you for reminding of that.
Why do we "like" some composers/performers but not others? If you're too readily dismissive you may just be missing out on a lot. I won't have any Wagner in the house because of his revolting politics. But can I really hear his fascism, antisemitism and overblown ego in his music? I don't listen to Liszt because of my impression of his big ego, but I listened to a piece of his the other night not knowing it was Liszt and enjoyed it, and then the announcer at the end said who it was by and I felt a fool. I won't listen to anything conducted by Karajan because he espoused and celebrated the Nazi cause in the war. Must the more obnoxious aspects of someone's personality necessarily carry over into their music-making? I have a number of recordings of Solti and love 'em. His recording of Schubert's Great C Major Symphony is the true dog's dangly bits. After his death I discovered from his obituaries that he was a tyrannical and obnoxious fellow on the podium. Maybe we should blast all this out of the water and be more like Daniel Barenboim, a one-time espouser of Zionism who caused outrage in Israel by performing Wagner operas there and who has formed a superb orchestra consisting of young Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian musicians. Breaking down all barriers on the road to mutual understanding and all that.
It is instructive to ditch the preconceptions and the other baggage and listen with an innocent ear occasionally. I'm not saying we can't have our whims, fancies, loves and hates mind you. That wouldn't be much fun at all and it certainly wouldn't be human!
too bad about Karajan...he got caught up in the politics of the times...still a brilliant conductor...it really is interesting how a conductor can even be associated with a certain author...Furtwangler (and Karajan) with Beethoven, Bernstein with Mahler, etc...I like some violinists performances of certain pieces but prefer others sometimes for other peices...I like Milsteins later recordings of the Bach S&P's for the way it breathes, but also like Szeryngs rendering a lot too...don't really care for the Heifitz recordings but really like the Heifitz Brahms...
the Emerson 1/4tet recordings of the beethoven cycles are awesome, but so are the Guerneris'...Menuhins Elgar is supposed to be the cats meow (he recorderd that when he was 15 or so with the composer conducting) but it leaves me kind of cold...maybe need to give it a relisten...I like Chungs Scottish Fantasy...
I love the Hollywood Quartet's late Beethoven, recorded in the 50s. They had Felix Slatkin in their ranks. One minute they'd be playing backing for Sinatra or somebody, next thing some late Beethoven! The Busch Quartet readings from the 30s are superb as well. And those Emersons you mention. I'm no fan of Elgar, but if you want a young bloke playing the Violin Concerto, you could try the version by - I hate to mention it - Nigel Kennedy... My latest obsession is the new recording of the last four Mozart symphonies by Mackerras and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Brilliant.
You don't have to listen to Strauss either, Ben. Very dodgy politics there too. Very dodgy. Furtwangler was eventually exonerated after the war, but there's still a bit of a whiff around him. He was apparently very naive and was used by the Nazis. Menuhin, a Jew, made some great recordings with him after the war, so it seems that he at least had let him off the hook.
Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I had some discussion threads I really wanted to post about three weeks ago, before I went into my temporary self-imposed exile ... gone now ... old age ...
Anyway, never mind all that. There's been lots of talk about classical recently. Goodness knows why - there *is* only one "classical" composer in any case (using the term as loosely as any self-respecting Cornish blow-in could wish
) and that's Bach. (Although I do like the odd Trauer Synfonie here and there and a bit of Shost 15 and the Eroica and anything by Webern [*with* the 'n' please] and ...)
So ... never mind all that classical rubbish. What I like about this diddley stuff is that it *does* all sound the same, and every tune has something unique and subtly different that makes you think - "ooh, *that's* a different way of putting it". It's the little things that make it great.
So ...
On with the TUNES!!!
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I have just listened to De Danann's first album followed by Scullion's first album followed by Sweeney's Mens first album and now I'm going to bed. Night night all.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Pleasant dreams!!! ~ or will you suffer nightmares. You didn't eat any cheese while you were listening to those recordings did you?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Let's see, what kind of mood am I in tonight?
Green Day's "American Idiot"!!!
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
hehehe
Bach wrote the best fiddle music ever
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
You clearly know less than nothing, Ben, but sleep well anyhoo.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Scullion, Strayaway - that brings back memories. Our little crappy folk group played before them in Limerick once. They wouldn't let us adjust anything after their sound check, so we sounded crappier than usual.
Still, they were great!
And Sweeny's Men - you're going back in time there. Pretty soon you'll be listening to Tir na N'Og
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by grego
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
My eyes are dim
I cannot see
I have noooot gooot my specs with me
I haaaaave noooooot goooooot myyyyyyy specs with me...
Whoozat? Damn, that's no reason to head butt me. That hurt...
Who turned the lights out?
Now you really do have me in a mood ~
"Move it Like This" ~ by the Baha Men
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I agree benhall - Tunes tunes tunes.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by bb
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I dunno, I'd rather talk about classical. We've said all there is to say about trad.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Dow
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Classical music sucks. Baroque music rocks.
And, yes, Bach was the greatest musical genius of all time.
But we've talked about these things too much. And we're always talking about tunes, that's getting old.
Let's talk about the modern view of the post-punk era and where the line between punk and new wave can now be drawn. Discuss.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Oh, do we *have* to talk about classical ? Can't we talk about jazz, for a change ? Or, something really interesting, like, man, I heard there's a genre called 'noise'. It's not like real noise, it's a music genre - anybody heard any ? I dunno if I have or not, because I dunno what it's supposed to sound like...anyway, seems that it's recently spawned a new genre, called 'junk noise'.
I feel I'm missing out. Are all the youngsters downloading junk noise tracks these days without me knowing it ??? If I knew what it was, maybe I could jump on the bandwagon and play some ? I mean, I feel old and helpless. I don't even know whether noise is meant to be a sub-sub-genre of jazz or art music or maybe it's come out of death-metal or garage or psycho-punk ? I'm clueless...
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Wolfbird, it's a sub-genre of experimental electronic music. It's avant-garde stuff, not really the kind of thing the neighborhood kids are listening to on their iPods.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_music
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Here you can listen to it and see what it sounds like, wolfbird:
http://www.noisemp3.com/
You might be able to play some if you have an electric guitar, a tape deck, a blender, a thick rubber glove, an old amp that you don't like, and a fork.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Wonderful Screetch ! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction....'Noiseheads', 'Harshnoise', 'Audioterror', 'Demons have golden eyes'.....I'm listening to heavy summer rain hitting the windowpane about two feet away, and Tommy Peoples fiddling quietly in the background....music to my ears...ah, now it's changed to Stefan grossman picking ragtime, nice ambient noise...is nice noises a genre yet...honey for ears...
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Well, as an ex-Hawkwind, Varese, Stockhausen, etc, aficianodo, it's familiar (old) territory...
interesting how it impacts the emotions, e.g. 'Soceity is a disease'
http://www.noisemp3.com/download/3cd4d7b425ddf75af4aaeacdef3602eb/noisemp3_dclxvi_societyisadisease.mp3
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I don't think I can get into it myself. At least, not without being high.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Good call Wolfbird & Screetch. I have just recently been inspired by the german band CAN.
Inspiration for me, comes from every direction. I live by this motto:
As long as you can be "talked out of yourself",
you deserve to be.
—A. Watts
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Ah, well, I suppose if you're expecting to like or enjoy it, you're likely missing the point....seems to me, it's not about 'music as entertainment'...maybe it's a bit like Duchamp's urinal as a work of art, or similar Dada and conceptual art, that's designed to shake the viewer out of their 'normal' responses...like a white square on a white background...is it art ? if not, what is it ?....forces you to think about how art is defined, how 'meaning' is formed, and so forth...
"...all sounds are equal..."
http://www.ubu.com/papers/noise.html
Personally, I find that sort of sound is painful. Like my vacuum cleaner; I'd prefer silence. To compare with painting, silence is the blank white canvas. If you add a mark, is that an improvement, or a desecration ?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
╔
.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I know what you mean, wolfbird, but I don't like music that just exists to make a point. The thing is, once a point is made then it's made. Music is listened to over and over again. Why would you want to hear the same point over and over again?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I was only trying to see if there was a way to get my "point" across artistically.
I apologize for not acquiring everyone's signature who took part in this experiment.
Goes to show that it is possible to enjoy/annoy without getting the point.
(hands paper to the teacher for a grade)
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Well, I think it's an interesting area... you know, you've got the big pool of noise, one of the reasons I find city life intolerable, the constant pain of loud unpleasant noise, trains, lorries, construction machinery, muzak,......and then there's the historical project called music, where instrument makers have tried to discover ways of extracting pleasant sounds from equipment, eliminating noise,and musicians have tried to manipulate the sounds into sequences and blends that evoke emotions...it touches on one of the differences between fiddling and playing violin, the gritty texture, the noise that is a desirable quality rather than a fault...
ÔIÔ
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
After seeing the movie August Rush, my opinion on sounds, noise & music has changed for the better.
Now the song, Make Noise —Lyrics by (Busta Rhymes) has left me standing somewhat akward & head feeling dizzy.
I do love the playing of a talented bodhran player. There are many about if you give it a chance. Simplicity can be deceiving, even to tabla player.
All noise has it's place.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
The french have "Musique concrète"—enough said.
Ever since taking those Selective-hearing lessons; the sound of crickets in my head is quite often enough.
Ah yes, marital bliss.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Fortunately or unfortunately, Mariska Hargitay, I have no crickets chirring, but a plethora, (haha) of cockerels crowing outside and two very different musical genres playing simultaneously on my computer...and a bit of poetry by Tagore
Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high;
Where knowledge is free;
Where the world has not been broken up
into fragments by narrow domestic walls;
Where words come out from the depth of truth;
Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection;
Where the clear stream of reason
has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habit;
Where the mind is led forward by thee into ever-widening thought and action....
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Ah Varese ... that takes me back [dreamy look comes into eyes]
Anyway, I get plenty of noise around here - bloody blackbird pecking at my roof (for some odd reason), crows pecking at the mirrors on my car, pigeons, foxes shrieking in the middle of the night, bloody badgers (cull them now, I say), magpies - who really *do* chatter in my garden - donkeys braying a field or two away, geese, chickens, owls in the night, not to mention my *stupid* cats ... too damn noisy in the country ... think I'll buy a shotgun ...
... and Beethoven and Haydn and all that crew just nicked the tunes from people like us, anyway ... when they could be bothered with a tune:
Stravinsky (I think) said something like "the trouble with Beethoven is that he couldn't write tunes"
And here's Richard Gill (Australian conductor):
someone said to me once, 'Beethoven of course couldn't write a melody, he wasn't a melodist, you know'
Now where's my whistle?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
you may be sitting on it ben. (smirk)
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Rabindranath Tagore looks to be an interesting character Wolfbird.
Thanx for the suggestion.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Bodhi
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
You're welcome, Mariska Hargitay. Namaste.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by wolfbird
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
So *that's* why I play so many bum notes.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Ah, just woke up to another rainy day in Fermanagh, seems like Drive The Cold Winter Away is this mornings first choice followed, maybe, by Pumpkinhead (anyone remember them?). Tir na nOg - fabulous band, appearing in Enniskillen 27th Sept. Sh*t!, what's that noise, sounds like a kango hammer ripping through sheet steel, no, it's the kids next door practicing on their guitars, sorry folks, have to go and join in.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by strayaway
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Dum di dum dum dah, dye dum dee thriddlydy eye diddle dee... Oh, sorry, lost my concentration...
Did you find your whistle? I'd give it a good clean before you start tootin' on that...
Hmmmm, let's see, what marinade? Should I make roast potatoes?
Hey Stray ~ p*ssn' down rainin' here too... Ben, for mximum damage, if you can find one, an 8 guage. No, considering your stature and delicate nature ~ a 14, and a very fine bird shot of course... Now, back to the bird. I decided on a smokey marinade with a bit of sweet temperature in it... I've also got the perfect tatties for roasting and some lovely goose fat. If you're passing by, there's enough for guests, and maybe you can get me off my ass to retake the music more seriously...
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Would love to. One day I will ...
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I thought music was supposed to be organized noise in the first place
Maybe I could ask why there are all of these comments about all of these different types and styles and genres of music on this discussion board but I know that I am not the only member of this web site who likes to play many different types of music and more than one instrument.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by fauxcelt
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Abolutely totally agree fauxcelt. About the playing several different types of music and more than one instrument.
Noise? In several different usages it has negative connotations. Apparently, it comes from Latin nausea, which might give a clue.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Bach is baroque, not classical
Classical would be Mozart and Haydn with a dash of Beethoven
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
This is really interesting to me because the only "classical" music I have any desire at all to play -- ever, like in the last 12 years or so -- is Bach, particularly the Unaccompanied Sonatas and Partitas. I don't do it much, mainly because I prefer to spend my time learning fiddle tunes, but I always enjoy it when I do. When I play Bach consciously, it's like I'm looking into a perfectly-cut jewel.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by cathrynb
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Nothing wrong with a bit of Fritz Kreissler.
X:1
T:Schön Rosmarin
R:waltz
M:3/4
L:1/8
K:G
B,DGB|:d zz^c e2-|e_ed^c=cB|d2(3cdc E2|E=F^FBAF|
DCA,CDF|Ac^cdba|gedBGE|DB,^CDGB|d zz ^c e2-|e_ed^c=cB|
d2(3cdc E2-|E=F^FBAF|DCA,CDF|Ac^cdba|gdBGDB,|1G, z B,DGB:|2G,2 zz
G2-|e7/2 ^d/2 e2-|e3/2g/2 c7/2 e/2|d7/2 ^c/2 d2-|d3/2g/2- B7/2 d/2-|c7/2 e/2 F2-|
F3/2c/2- D7/2 c/2-|B7/2 e/2 G2-|G3/2B/2-DBcd|{ef} e7/2 ^d/2 e2-|e3/2g/2 c7/2 e/2|
{de} d7/2 ^c/2 d2-|d3/2g/2-B7/2 d/2-|c7/2 e/2-E2|E3/2G/2 F7/2 A/2-|G5-|GABc^cd|
{_e=f}e7/2 d/2 e2-|-e3/2g/2- c7/2 _e/2|{d_e}d7/2 ^c/2 d2-|d3/2g/2 _B7/2 =B/2-|
c7/2 _e/2 G2-|G3/2_B/2 A7/2 c/2-|_B7/2 d/2 =f2-|=f3/2_b/2 a7/2 _a/2-|{g_a}g7/2 ^f/2 g2-|
g3/2_b/2 _e7/2 g/2-|{=fg}f7/2 =e/2 f2-|=f3/2_b/2 d7/2 f/2-|_e7/2 g/2G2-|G3/2_B/2-A7/2 =c/2-|
_B5| B=Bc^cd^d|({=e^f} e7/2) (^d e2-|e3/2)g/2-c7/2 e/2|{de}d7/2 ^c/2 d2-|d3/2g/2 B7/2 d/2|
c7/2 e/2 F2-|F3/2c/2 D7/2 c/2|B7/2 e/2 G2-|G3/2B/2 DBcd|{ef}-e7/2 ^d/2 e2-|e3/2g/2 c7/2 e/2|
{de} d7/2 ^c/2 d2-|d3/2g/2 B7/2 d/2-|c7/2 e|E3/2G/2 F7/2 A/2-|G5-|G zB,DGB|:d zz^c e2-|
e^d=d^c=cB|d2(3cdc E2|E=F^FBAF|DCA,CDF|Ac^cdba|gedBGE|DB,^CDGB|d zz ^c e2-|
e^d=d^c=cB|d2(3cdc E2-|E=F^FBAF|DCA,CDF|Ac^cdba|gdBGDB,|1Gz B,DGB:|2G,2||
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by AngusF
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Yes, I know that, D.J.F. But others - some of whom live in the land blessed above all (clue: I'm half Cornish; the good half)- will insist that that's pedantic. Hence my sweeping caveat in my opening post.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Who's Fritz Kreissler?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
OMG benhall, Kreisler was only one of the best men to pick up a violin. Amazing expression. Angus I would pick Liebesleid over your suggestion
Do you play fiddle benhall?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Ben, count yourself lucky, I've just been invaded by the biggest flock of starlings I've ever seen - the ornithological equivalent of a Facebook-advertised Torbay beach party (though without the m/c parents in their 4x4s looking to pick up their darlings later on). They're going absolutely wild about something growing or hiding in the hedgerows and, whenever I walk past, leap out with a caterwauling that suggests they've discovered the starlings' equivalent of póitín and I'm the Revenue man.
As for Varese, well, Zappa's your man.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I'm loving Arvo Part and Tavener...hooray for contemporary classical!!! But yeah, the diddley stuff is nice too...I bet none of you ever thought I would like classical. I love both. Neither is my favourite.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Great that there are still so many starlings around. Apparently in some parts over here they are becoming threatened by this so-called 'garden-grabbing', where developers buy up houses with large gardens in order to build in the garden, sometimes even knocking the existing house down in order to fit more in. Starlings, being garden birds, can be adversely affected by this.
Still, this present housing slump might put paid to that, eh? Must look on the bright side.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Pärt, eh? Yet another name which brings back memories. Haven't heard any of his stuff for years and years. Probably decades.
Tavener's 'made it' in the popular sense, but personally I'd rather Pärt.
Look, Alley, I was supposed to be playing TUNES now, and here you've got me thinking about all this minimalist nonsense. Minimalist, indeed! It goes on for hours!
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
i love trad but i also hav a great interest in baroque and classical!
if you dont like classical i would suggest lsitening to maxim vengerov or nigel kennedy (you cant really compare them both but however...)
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by tradmoosic
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Yep, you'll get the two extremes there, right enough. On the one hand, Nigel Kennedy is a musician ...
... on the other, a great pile of glistening, sickening, cloying saccharin.
And just in case anybody comes up with the 'You wouldn't mind be able to play like Venergov' line, the answer to that is an emphatic 'YES, I WOULD!'
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Ben, don't be suckered in - there's a somewhat 'new' malevolent sprite at work here.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
That's only coz you can't benhall
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I can't benhall either. How does one start, D.J.F.?
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
How does one "benhall"? I can't find that verb in the dictionary.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
LOL I just got benhalled. Pwned.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by mehitabel23
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Now THAT's a cracker!
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
No, this is a cracker - I ordered a pizza the other night, a thin and crusty Supreme, and now I've got Diana Ross on my doorstep demanding to know what 'benhall' means.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Floss the Tethers
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
What kind of mushrooms were on that pizza?!
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
NIgel Kennedy...a musician?
oh you mean "Kennedy" like when he tried to change his name to sound like "Bono" or something like that...
....nah...
listen to Fritz Kreisler instead if you want to listen to a musician
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Screetch, I think they were mellow mushrooms...
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Tavener's posturing and some of his stuff I find annoying, but when (to me) it's good, it's very good - such as Song For Athene, the Diana's funeral one.
Nigel Kennedy may be good, for all I know. The tat shops in Canterbury, where I lived for a bit, didn't give me the chance to like him. They pumped out Kennedy playing in Vivaldi's Four Seasons non-stop till I felt a fathomless hate for all involved. I've never wanted to hear The Four Seasons again, played by Nigel Kennedy, Jimmy Carter's daughter, the Emperor Nero or anybody else.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Kennedy: FWIW I tend to think he has been a bit of a prat in many ways - weird hair, fake accent, strange behaviour. But ...
He's one of the best classical fiddlers of all time.
I haven't now got any recordings of Kreisler. Used to have, but vinyl, and goodness knows what happened to them. Old style. Fine, but not really my taste. I don't listen to music much anyway.
Anyway, as I say ...
tunes
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
...not even close
Oistrakh, Milstein, Perlman, Hahn, Barton-Pine, Szeryng, now those are class acts and class fiddlers...
no need to dye their hair or resort to stage antics to attract attention...
they let the music speak for itself
the old Kreisler vinyl really is somewhat dated, not only in an audiophonic sort of way, but stylistically as well..all those slides and unnecessary shifting and such...
still really grabs you, though
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
ok..
tunes
just learned the Comhaltas tutorial McKennas Reel..quite a nice tune
http://comhaltas.ie/music/detail/comhaltaslive_262_5_erin_mcgeown_playing_mckennas/
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
People who like Perlman usually don't like Stern, and vice versa. I'm a Stern man, meself. Proper fiddle player. I really don't like the tone that Perlman got, or the nasty syrupiness of it all. Way too cloying.
But I agree about the tune. Nice link. Just learned it myself. Thanks.
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Well, there you go. I've just looked Stern up in Wiki, and apparently he discovered and encouraged Perlman (among others). Who'd have thought?
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I used to not be much on Perlman until I heard the trios he recorded with Lynn Harrell and Ashkenazy
I think Stern did the fiddling for the movie "Fiddler on the Roof"
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Y're right - Stern did do the fiddle for Fiddler on the Roof. And I'll have to see if I can track down those trios. You never know, they might convert me. Since they converted you.
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
try these
http://www.amazon.com/Beethoven-Perlman-Vladimir-Ashkenazy-Harrell/dp/B0000CE7FI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1215364873&sr=8-1
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
That's a nice price too...
# Posted on July 6th 2008 by ceolachan
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
"People who like Perlman usually don't like Stern," eh? Well, apart from the fact that I have recordings of both that I love, and have heard others which disappointed me, I think this is a very dodgy proposition anyway. I'd love to subject Ben to blind hearings (deaf? Could be more appropriate I s'pose...) of Perlman vs. Stern in similar repertoire. Pound to a penny he couldn't tell which was which in a million years. In the studio, Perlman and Stern were like the rest of us. Good days, rough days. I used to think I didn't like Stern's recordings, then I heard him one night in the Festival Hall (or was it Albert? My eyes are dim...) in Brahms' Violin Concerto (not my favourite piece, but hey!) Wonderful he was. Poetic, total grasp of the structure, blah. Started to see him in a whole new light, and it opened my eyes to the fact that what I thought were my "preferences" were based on nowt more than plain, pig-ignorant prejudice. He had his own musical voice and he interpreted the works he played in his own individualistic way. Now who are we in eye tee em to criticise that! Saying you don't like Stern but like Perlman, or vice versa, is as stupid as saying that you like Kevin Burke but not Tommy Peoples. All you're doing is showing that you don't know how to listen to music.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
there is a documentary called something like Mao to Mozart that (well) documents a Stern visit to China...he seems to be a very giving person with his music, money, and talent...
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I think he was, Sunnybear. Apparently very encouraging of others.
And Steve, I tend to agree with most of what you've said above. Some of it's a bit harsh, and I personally think it's fair enough to like one or other of Tommy Peoples and Kevin Burke and not the other one. They do have, after all, very different styles.
Did you try that test someone linked to on here once where they played *very* short clips of several well-known flute players (Harry B was one of them) and you had to guess which was which. It was surprisingly easy. I mean that. I was surprised.
But, it's true that I need to keep more of an open mind than I sometimes do. So thank you for reminding of that.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
You're welcome.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Why do we "like" some composers/performers but not others? If you're too readily dismissive you may just be missing out on a lot. I won't have any Wagner in the house because of his revolting politics. But can I really hear his fascism, antisemitism and overblown ego in his music? I don't listen to Liszt because of my impression of his big ego, but I listened to a piece of his the other night not knowing it was Liszt and enjoyed it, and then the announcer at the end said who it was by and I felt a fool. I won't listen to anything conducted by Karajan because he espoused and celebrated the Nazi cause in the war. Must the more obnoxious aspects of someone's personality necessarily carry over into their music-making? I have a number of recordings of Solti and love 'em. His recording of Schubert's Great C Major Symphony is the true dog's dangly bits. After his death I discovered from his obituaries that he was a tyrannical and obnoxious fellow on the podium. Maybe we should blast all this out of the water and be more like Daniel Barenboim, a one-time espouser of Zionism who caused outrage in Israel by performing Wagner operas there and who has formed a superb orchestra consisting of young Israeli, Palestinian, Lebanese, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian musicians. Breaking down all barriers on the road to mutual understanding and all that.
It is instructive to ditch the preconceptions and the other baggage and listen with an innocent ear occasionally. I'm not saying we can't have our whims, fancies, loves and hates mind you. That wouldn't be much fun at all and it certainly wouldn't be human!
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I hope that doesn't mean I have to listen to Richard Strauss. There has to be a line.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
too bad about Karajan...he got caught up in the politics of the times...still a brilliant conductor...it really is interesting how a conductor can even be associated with a certain author...Furtwangler (and Karajan) with Beethoven, Bernstein with Mahler, etc...I like some violinists performances of certain pieces but prefer others sometimes for other peices...I like Milsteins later recordings of the Bach S&P's for the way it breathes, but also like Szeryngs rendering a lot too...don't really care for the Heifitz recordings but really like the Heifitz Brahms...
the Emerson 1/4tet recordings of the beethoven cycles are awesome, but so are the Guerneris'...Menuhins Elgar is supposed to be the cats meow (he recorderd that when he was 15 or so with the composer conducting) but it leaves me kind of cold...maybe need to give it a relisten...I like Chungs Scottish Fantasy...
good thing we have choices, ehh?
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Sunnybear
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
Sunnybear, we are as one.
Milstein's Bach S&Ps. Mmmmmmm ...
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Never mind all this classical *?!!?**!!!
I love the Hollywood Quartet's late Beethoven, recorded in the 50s. They had Felix Slatkin in their ranks. One minute they'd be playing backing for Sinatra or somebody, next thing some late Beethoven! The Busch Quartet readings from the 30s are superb as well. And those Emersons you mention. I'm no fan of Elgar, but if you want a young bloke playing the Violin Concerto, you could try the version by - I hate to mention it - Nigel Kennedy... My latest obsession is the new recording of the last four Mozart symphonies by Mackerras and the Scottish Chamber Orchestra. Brilliant.
You don't have to listen to Strauss either, Ben. Very dodgy politics there too. Very dodgy. Furtwangler was eventually exonerated after the war, but there's still a bit of a whiff around him. He was apparently very naive and was used by the Nazis. Menuhin, a Jew, made some great recordings with him after the war, so it seems that he at least had let him off the hook.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by Steve Shaw