I'm really curious about this. Also, I'm "working" from home and I'm bored.
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being so loose the hair almost touches the stick and 10 being so tight that the stick is almost straight, how tight do you tighten your bow?
Depends on the mood I'm in and how 'hard' I want to hit the strings. But on that scale about 3 for soft and mellow through to about 7 or 8 when the divil takes me!
I use an Incredibow, which cannot be loosened or tightened. I used to keep my fiberglass bow pretty tight, so it didn't take long for me to get used to the tightness of the Incredibow. Some people find it too "bouncy" on the strings, but I prefer it like that.
my bow is never tight,neither am I and neither is my fiddle.
my bow does not need to be breathalysed.
you could say my bow is as tight as a tee totaller.
Just tight enough so that the hairs don't quite touch the stick when I'm playing strongest. This means, when the bow is tightened, that there is about the width of my 4th finger (no more) between the hair and the stick at closest approach. This can vary slightly from bow to bow, depending on the relaxed shape of the stick and its stiffness. And, of course, I'm talking about the standard classical bow, not baroque or Incredibow.
Many thanks, Screetch. You now have me thinking about what I do and how I do it in a fresh way.
Probably 6.5 to 7.5. I think I vary it a bit, as I will find myself tweeking it as the session or gig progresses.
Also amongst the variables is the venue, and changes in temperature, humidity, etc.
Recalling a recent thread: This is amongst what I like best about this site -- a straight-forward discussion about something valid, interested folks comparing notes and lessons learnt, and a bit of fun to it.
Don't forget that when you've been playing for a few minutes the bow hairs stretch (room temperature and the work done on them when playing), so it's necessary to tighten the bow slightly. This is also why you should slacken off the hairs when you stop playing. The hairs contract as they cool, and this will put the stick under unwanted extra tension if they aren't slackened off - not a good idea if you want the stick to keep its shape.
Probably 4-5. There's a reason, but I can't remember what it is. I was taught that the stick shouldn't be to close to the hair but that you should be able to see the curve of the stick.
I bet reenactor's suggestion will help you attain nice circular arm motion... :p
Interesting. I wonder how much the strings have to do with it. When I was using gut strings my bow was at about a 4 but when I switched to evah's I noticed I keep tightening it up more and more. I'm at about a 7 now.
This led me to experiment with how tight I was setting the hair, something I hadn't really thought about before. So it made me curious as to what other people are doing.
To be honest, it's very random... one of those things I don't think about. I tighten it a random bit, and if it feels wrong I change it a random amount in a random direction. Doesn't take long before it feels ok!
The statistician in me is gazing upon this incipient dataset and weeping.
And, Screetch, I'm a bit skeptical about your story. You're "working" from home - presuably with, like, an =actual fiddle= within striking distance, am I right? - and the best idea you can come up with to allay your boredom is to poll folks on bow tightness? Crikey. I'm "working" from work, so that's my excuse.
To answer your question, though: 5.2534. Except during a full moon. Then all bets are off.
I've noticed English fiddlers often tighten the bow to an incredible tension - it helps with the percussive 'strike' that's characteristic of the tradition, I think.
Actually, TDM, the fiddle was in the other room. I'm a computer programmer, so it's easy for me to read and post on an Internet board while I'm working. And I really was working, actually.
Of course, it all depends on the bow in question.... can we assume 5 is the average midpoint of tautness per bow, i.e. a relative measure?
In that case, between 4-7 depending on mood, 90% of the time. More extreme fluctuations may be observed during the experience of environmental anomalous influences.
I used to have it cranked WAY up, like 7 or 8, for some reason. Now I'd say 3 or 4. Feels like I get better traction. If I was driving, I'd say my tires are gripping the road better.
The tightness (tension) of the strings when at pitch is defined by the manufacturer. Not all divulge this information, but Helicore, for one, do give the tensions on the packaging. Going from memory, a full set of medium H's give a total tension in the region of 50 lbs, and this is upped by about 10% for the heavy version. Medium cello H's, BTW, are more than double the tension of the fiddle strings.
At the other end of the scale, gut strings are at a substantially lower tension (2/3rds of metal core at a wild guess?), and this is reflected in their easy ability to be tuned from the peg (micro-adjusters are useless for gut).
Observing other trad players, I've seen the tension range from very
slack looking, where it 'bottoms out' all the time
(Michael Harrison - live, in a session) - to very tight-looking with a big
gap between hair and stick (Tommy Peoples - video and
photographs). Adrian 'Ado' Barker told us in a workshop that he
keeps his bow fairly slack.
If a bow has a big camber to it, or the opposite, you wouldn't be
able to judge tension just by looking at it.
I just do what I'm told since I'm so far on the left of the learning curve.
Sean Smyth uses a very slack bow, which enables him to produces these fabulous triplets (listen fx. to Wedding reel from Merry Sisters of Fat by Lunasa). According to the man himself you hear quite a lot of the stick while he's doing these.
Usually around 3 to 4. I like the feel and sound of bowed triplets better when the hair is not too tight. For more volume, or harder playing, I go up to 5 or 6.
One time my band started up after a break and I'd forgotten to tighten the hair at all, so I played those tunes at a zero. I kept the bowing very light, needless to say, and it didn't sound too bad. It didn't wreck the bow, either.
Back when I was using a fairly slack bow I had this thing where I would bounce the stick against the strings during "dirty" string crossings. Basically, at the point where I was on both strings at once I'd have the bow tilted so far forward that both the stick and hair were on the strings. The stick would bounce along while the hair drew a tone.
I stopped doing that, though, because it started to damage the varnish on my bow. Made a neat sound though.
The purpose of varnish is to protect the bow. If the bare wood comes into contact with rosin dust (as it will in regular use), then eventually the rosin, being acidic, will attack the wood and weaken it. This is the reason why rosin shouldn't be allowed to accumulate on the belly of the fiddle (despite session cred considerations!), because the rosin will eventually oxidise the varnish (it blackens) and eventually get through to the underlying wood and attack it. So after playing, it's just as important to clean rosin dust off the bow stick as off the instrument itself.
Equal space as the thickness of the bow and then give it two 1/8 turns at the ferrule--every time. The width of a pencil, OR using your system-------FIVE.
Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I'm really curious about this. Also, I'm "working" from home and I'm bored.
On a scale of 1 to 10, with 1 being so loose the hair almost touches the stick and 10 being so tight that the stick is almost straight, how tight do you tighten your bow?
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Depends on the mood I'm in and how 'hard' I want to hit the strings. But on that scale about 3 for soft and mellow through to about 7 or 8 when the divil takes me!
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by john knoss
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
about pi.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by reenactor
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I use an Incredibow, which cannot be loosened or tightened. I used to keep my fiberglass bow pretty tight, so it didn't take long for me to get used to the tightness of the Incredibow. Some people find it too "bouncy" on the strings, but I prefer it like that.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by irishfiddler32
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Probably around 5.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by crazy_fingerz
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Just tight enough so that the stick does not touch the strings, even when I bear down on it. I don't like it to get too bouncy, myself.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by mickray
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
my bow is never tight,neither am I and neither is my fiddle.
my bow does not need to be breathalysed.
you could say my bow is as tight as a tee totaller.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by dickens metrognome
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Just tight enough so that the hairs don't quite touch the stick when I'm playing strongest. This means, when the bow is tightened, that there is about the width of my 4th finger (no more) between the hair and the stick at closest approach. This can vary slightly from bow to bow, depending on the relaxed shape of the stick and its stiffness. And, of course, I'm talking about the standard classical bow, not baroque or Incredibow.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Many thanks, Screetch. You now have me thinking about what I do and how I do it in a fresh way.
Probably 6.5 to 7.5. I think I vary it a bit, as I will find myself tweeking it as the session or gig progresses.
Also amongst the variables is the venue, and changes in temperature, humidity, etc.
Recalling a recent thread: This is amongst what I like best about this site -- a straight-forward discussion about something valid, interested folks comparing notes and lessons learnt, and a bit of fun to it.
Lovely.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Rook
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Don't forget that when you've been playing for a few minutes the bow hairs stretch (room temperature and the work done on them when playing), so it's necessary to tighten the bow slightly. This is also why you should slacken off the hairs when you stop playing. The hairs contract as they cool, and this will put the stick under unwanted extra tension if they aren't slackened off - not a good idea if you want the stick to keep its shape.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Probably 4-5. There's a reason, but I can't remember what it is. I was taught that the stick shouldn't be to close to the hair but that you should be able to see the curve of the stick.
I bet reenactor's suggestion will help you attain nice circular arm motion... :p
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by jasonb
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Interesting. I wonder how much the strings have to do with it. When I was using gut strings my bow was at about a 4 but when I switched to evah's I noticed I keep tightening it up more and more. I'm at about a 7 now.
This led me to experiment with how tight I was setting the hair, something I hadn't really thought about before. So it made me curious as to what other people are doing.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Same as lazyhound. (I can't do the numbers thing with it - won't work in my head.)
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
To be honest, it's very random... one of those things I don't think about. I tighten it a random bit, and if it feels wrong I change it a random amount in a random direction. Doesn't take long before it feels ok!
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
The statistician in me is gazing upon this incipient dataset and weeping.
And, Screetch, I'm a bit skeptical about your story. You're "working" from home - presuably with, like, an =actual fiddle= within striking distance, am I right? - and the best idea you can come up with to allay your boredom is to poll folks on bow tightness? Crikey. I'm "working" from work, so that's my excuse.
To answer your question, though: 5.2534. Except during a full moon. Then all bets are off.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
probably around 4, I never change it either - its always at the same level...is that the right word for a bow?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I've noticed English fiddlers often tighten the bow to an incredible tension - it helps with the percussive 'strike' that's characteristic of the tradition, I think.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Robert Ryan
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Actually, TDM, the fiddle was in the other room. I'm a computer programmer, so it's easy for me to read and post on an Internet board while I'm working. And I really was working, actually.
But I did have a whistle on my desk...
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Of course, it all depends on the bow in question.... can we assume 5 is the average midpoint of tautness per bow, i.e. a relative measure?
In that case, between 4-7 depending on mood, 90% of the time. More extreme fluctuations may be observed during the experience of environmental anomalous influences.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Damn. I just meant to say 0 on occasion, and 12 on occasion.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
"English fiddlers often tighten the bow to an incredible tension" - perhaps the Incredibow would serve them well.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I used to have it cranked WAY up, like 7 or 8, for some reason. Now I'd say 3 or 4. Feels like I get better traction. If I was driving, I'd say my tires are gripping the road better.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
about the space of my pinky finger, 3 maybe? I don't like a real bouncy feel.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by wyogal
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I'm right in the middle, I would guess a 5 or 6. A bit of bounce but not bouncy.
Alright then, who's going to ask the follow-up question:
How tight are your strings?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by leoj
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Um...they're in tune...
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
( Don't ruin my wind-up)
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by leoj
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
The tightness (tension) of the strings when at pitch is defined by the manufacturer. Not all divulge this information, but Helicore, for one, do give the tensions on the packaging. Going from memory, a full set of medium H's give a total tension in the region of 50 lbs, and this is upped by about 10% for the heavy version. Medium cello H's, BTW, are more than double the tension of the fiddle strings.
At the other end of the scale, gut strings are at a substantially lower tension (2/3rds of metal core at a wild guess?), and this is reflected in their easy ability to be tuned from the peg (micro-adjusters are useless for gut).
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Observing other trad players, I've seen the tension range from very
slack looking, where it 'bottoms out' all the time
(Michael Harrison - live, in a session) - to very tight-looking with a big
gap between hair and stick (Tommy Peoples - video and
photographs). Adrian 'Ado' Barker told us in a workshop that he
keeps his bow fairly slack.
If a bow has a big camber to it, or the opposite, you wouldn't be
able to judge tension just by looking at it.
I just do what I'm told since I'm so far on the left of the learning curve.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Hup
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
You cant go far wrong copying how Ado does it.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I think mine is probably more at a 3 than 4, its really hard to say.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
I tighten to about 4.
I was at a session once when someone grabed by bow and tightened it until it bowed the wrong way. I nearly nutted him.
Anyway, anymore than 5 i find too hard to keep from bouncing. But I'm green at all this yet.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by session savage
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
About 6+32i
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Joe CSS
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Same as lazyhound and benhall.1
Sean Smyth uses a very slack bow, which enables him to produces these fabulous triplets (listen fx. to Wedding reel from Merry Sisters of Fat by Lunasa). According to the man himself you hear quite a lot of the stick while he's doing these.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Usually around 3 to 4. I like the feel and sound of bowed triplets better when the hair is not too tight. For more volume, or harder playing, I go up to 5 or 6.
One time my band started up after a break and I'd forgotten to tighten the hair at all, so I played those tunes at a zero. I kept the bowing very light, needless to say, and it didn't sound too bad. It didn't wreck the bow, either.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Jmbu
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
1/4 inch. 3.5 on your scale.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by awildman2384
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Thank you all for contributing data to this study.
If my calculations are correct, the average bow tension is three pints.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
That's interesting, Henk Bos.
Back when I was using a fairly slack bow I had this thing where I would bounce the stick against the strings during "dirty" string crossings. Basically, at the point where I was on both strings at once I'd have the bow tilted so far forward that both the stick and hair were on the strings. The stick would bounce along while the hair drew a tone.
I stopped doing that, though, because it started to damage the varnish on my bow. Made a neat sound though.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Never mind the varnish, Screetch; your bow will stay as good as it was ;)
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Henk Bos
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
It's nice bow though, I don't want to mar it. But I'm considering getting a good carbon fiber bow that I can abuse this way.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by Marklar
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
The purpose of varnish is to protect the bow. If the bare wood comes into contact with rosin dust (as it will in regular use), then eventually the rosin, being acidic, will attack the wood and weaken it. This is the reason why rosin shouldn't be allowed to accumulate on the belly of the fiddle (despite session cred considerations!), because the rosin will eventually oxidise the varnish (it blackens) and eventually get through to the underlying wood and attack it. So after playing, it's just as important to clean rosin dust off the bow stick as off the instrument itself.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
Equal space as the thickness of the bow and then give it two 1/8 turns at the ferrule--every time. The width of a pencil, OR using your system-------FIVE.
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by hauke
Re: Fiddlers, how tight is your bow?
just a newbie to the fiddle but my bow is probably near a 7-8
# Posted on July 7th 2008 by wooby