There's a reasonably new search engine for tunes from various traditions called Folktunefinder. It's got about 40,000 entries on it, and is fairly handy. Might be worth taking a look for those more obscure tunes....
It's brill! I fished up The Keelman Ower The Land with its first notes - I've never been able to get *anything* off The Session search engine that way.
Great link. Thanks. Couldn't find an obscure barndance in my repertoire though. I've been racking my brains out for the name of a barndance for a few weeks now.
I can't believe anyone does not know the note names on a keyboard!
Even here on the Session.org!
Surely it's the most basic thing that any musician should know!
If you can't pick out a middle C on a piano how on earth do you manage to understand music?
Good grief!
If you have so much distain for the "anal ghetto" of diddley music, what the feck are you doing here? Your procrastinations belie such torpid ignorance.
Llig, obviously you consider your self in that ghetto! Good luck to you! It must be lonely in there! Most diddlers I meet & play with seem to be musically well educated.
And please explain what I am putting off doing and how that contradicts my extreme lethargic lack of knowledge?
Your English doesn't really make sense!
It's not a case of whether or not you are musically well educated, it's that, with this music, it doesn't matter. (though I admit my English could be better, I think I meant pontificate not procrastinate). If you think that knowing where and how to name middle C on a keyboard in any way helps playing diddley music, I'd like to know why.
I'd dare say there's rakes of people here, Krick who don't know where the notes are on a piano keyboard (myself included) but then we don't play pianos...... it's kinda obvious. Sure, I can look it up - 'oh, that's where they are' and forget them again.
I don't understand music, just enjoy it.
Thank you lazyhound. Does 'middle' mean that that note is in the middle of the keyboard, or is it not related? I mean, can you say which key is middle c just looking at a keyboard?
On a standard 88 key piano, middle C is the 4th C from the bottom (left) and the fifth C from the top (right). It's the lowest C that can be played on a normally tuned fiddle, mandolin, tenor banjo, or 21-button B/C or C#/D accordion. It's one octave below the lowest note on a C whistle and one octave below the white key on the piano just below the lowest note on a D whistle. It's the note written "C" in ABC notation.
On the search engine site, it seems that the lowest C on the 2 octave keyboard is intended to be middle C, since that would be near the bottom of the range of a melody instrument. Also, when you click on it, you get a "C" instead of a "c" in the text window.
llig, nobody needs those silly scopes. Just tune your fiddle or viola as usual with a tuner (or, even better, to the A440 that is doubtless ingrained in one's head after all those years of playing in sessions!) and then play the C on the G string below - that's Middle C on the piano. The violist of course just needs to play the octave harmonic on the C string.
Ramiro, Middle C is in the middle of the keyboard - a real piano keyboard. For example, my piano (which has just over the full 7 octaves A,,,, - c'''' using the ABC notation) has 8 Cs, and Middle C is the 4th C up from the bass. Other standard pianos will have an exact 7 octaves (A,,,, - a''') and only 7 Cs, and again Middle C will be the 4th one up from the bass.
Older keyboards from the time of Bach into the 18th century would usually only have 4-5 octaves, but Middle C would be where you'd expect to find it. With today's short electronic midi keyboards the "Middle C" of the standard piano could be almost anywhere, depending how you define it with the controls.
As a matter of interest, the baroque keyboard of 4 octaves covered just about the full range of the human voice, and "Middle C" is one of the few notes that can be sung by any human voice, from bass to soprano.
for the record, music theory isn't all about being able to play a piano. Personally I don't know the notes on a keyboard because i have never bothered to find out - I just wasn't interested. I have been too busy over the years learning fiddle, five string banjo, flute and guitar.
I just wish I had met you earlier in order to educate me
That said I will endeavour to take the 10 seconds it must take to find middle C on a piano - oh there it is. Brilliant I can now use the site properly.
Sheeesh some people just want more and more out of you.... ;)
Excellent link, thanks Robert. I found Calum's road.( thought it was Callum's) It doesn't seem to matter too much what octave you start in, unless you get the notes exactly as per the tune, it gives all sorts of other tunes that have something similar.
I think this site would be useful if you have composed something to check out if your memory is plagiarising stuff. At least as far as the search engine's data base goes.
Also it is such a relief not to have to go from kinaesthetic to visual to work out the notes. ABC is a GREAT shorthand, but takes some getting used to, (keyboards I was lucky enough to start plunking away at before reading ).
Wonder if something similar could be done with a grid where you click on finger positions for guitarists, or mandolin players-(fiddlers too), or with little rows of dots for covering fingerholes on flutes,chanters etc.
Great resource, simple and effective.
Traditional Music Search Engine
Traditional Music Search Engine
There's a reasonably new search engine for tunes from various traditions called Folktunefinder. It's got about 40,000 entries on it, and is fairly handy. Might be worth taking a look for those more obscure tunes....
http://www.folktunefinder.com/
Best,
RR.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Plastic Fantastic
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I put "Cooley" in and didn't get the Edorian tune
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
That's pretty cool, you can search by typing the notes on a keyboard. Thanks for posting this.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by Marklar
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Btw, Robert I'm taking the mick, that is one fine Tune searcher!!
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
very cool, i "played" the first 2 bars of Miss McLeod on the keyboard, and got the correct title then. that's great! thanks for posting this link.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by claudine
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
> I put "Cooley" in and didn't get the Edorian tune
It does show up if you enter "Cooley's"
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by boxist
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Yep. I tried it with the first few notes of Con Cassidy's. Worked a treat.
# Posted on July 3rd 2008 by benhall.1
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
It's brill! I fished up The Keelman Ower The Land with its first notes - I've never been able to get *anything* off The Session search engine that way.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by nicholas
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Great link. Thanks. Couldn't find an obscure barndance in my repertoire though. I've been racking my brains out for the name of a barndance for a few weeks now.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by PaddyCmusic
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Yeah, Joe knows his stuff. I've suggested that he adds note names above the keyboard for those of us who are, ahem, theoretically challenged....
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Plastic Fantastic
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I found it much easier to retrieve a tune using this interface than battling away with the 'advanced' search option on thesession.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by dogbox
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
the notes above the keys would help - i have enough of a time battling with the fiddle without learning how to play a keyboard.
seriously though, excellent idea, I like it.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by tobes
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I can't believe anyone does not know the note names on a keyboard!
Even here on the Session.org!
Surely it's the most basic thing that any musician should know!
If you can't pick out a middle C on a piano how on earth do you manage to understand music?
Good grief!
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
ha ha, that's so ignorant. You can't really think that understanding music has anything whatsoever to do with naming notes on a keyboard can you?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
You can llig, look at the accordionists.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by D.J.F.
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
It all depends where you exist. An blinkered anal ghetto or the the wider musical world.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Many thanks for the info, I tried it today and it works fine. As a computer illiterate I never ceased to be amazed by these ingenious programmes.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
If you have so much distain for the "anal ghetto" of diddley music, what the feck are you doing here? Your procrastinations belie such torpid ignorance.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Oh no....crikey - I cant do all that theory stuff - oh well, twas fun while it lasted.....goodbye cruel wider musical world :(
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by bb
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
>naming notes on a keyboard
mine are all called fred
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by cStu
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
It's a Fred Board :D
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by cStu
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Llig, obviously you consider your self in that ghetto! Good luck to you! It must be lonely in there! Most diddlers I meet & play with seem to be musically well educated.
And please explain what I am putting off doing and how that contradicts my extreme lethargic lack of knowledge?
Your English doesn't really make sense!
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Krick Stahlschwanz
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
It's not a case of whether or not you are musically well educated, it's that, with this music, it doesn't matter. (though I admit my English could be better, I think I meant pontificate not procrastinate). If you think that knowing where and how to name middle C on a keyboard in any way helps playing diddley music, I'd like to know why.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Middle C - now isn't that the one just above the lock? But it sounds quite different on some pianos. Can't understand it.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I'd dare say there's rakes of people here, Krick who don't know where the notes are on a piano keyboard (myself included) but then we don't play pianos...... it's kinda obvious. Sure, I can look it up - 'oh, that's where they are' and forget them again.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by the wounded hussar
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I can find a C on a piano, but what's middle C? Do you have to count the Cs? Is it always the same pitch in every piano?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
If your piano is tuned to A440, find the note that is pitched at 262Hz - that's Middle C.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Good grief you lot, how on earth do you manage to understand music?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
You mean you need an oscilloscope before you can manage to understand music?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
It'd be nice if the keyboard notes bonged correctly when you hit them ... but I'm quibbling - it's a great resource as is.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by spindizzy
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
I don't understand music, just enjoy it.
Thank you lazyhound. Does 'middle' mean that that note is in the middle of the keyboard, or is it not related? I mean, can you say which key is middle c just looking at a keyboard?
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Stevie wonder can
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
That's why they call him 'wonder'
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
On a standard 88 key piano, middle C is the 4th C from the bottom (left) and the fifth C from the top (right). It's the lowest C that can be played on a normally tuned fiddle, mandolin, tenor banjo, or 21-button B/C or C#/D accordion. It's one octave below the lowest note on a C whistle and one octave below the white key on the piano just below the lowest note on a D whistle. It's the note written "C" in ABC notation.
On the search engine site, it seems that the lowest C on the 2 octave keyboard is intended to be middle C, since that would be near the bottom of the range of a melody instrument. Also, when you click on it, you get a "C" instead of a "c" in the text window.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by GaryAMartin
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
llig, nobody needs those silly scopes. Just tune your fiddle or viola as usual with a tuner (or, even better, to the A440 that is doubtless ingrained in one's head after all those years of playing in sessions!) and then play the C on the G string below - that's Middle C on the piano. The violist of course just needs to play the octave harmonic on the C string.
Ramiro, Middle C is in the middle of the keyboard - a real piano keyboard. For example, my piano (which has just over the full 7 octaves A,,,, - c'''' using the ABC notation) has 8 Cs, and Middle C is the 4th C up from the bass. Other standard pianos will have an exact 7 octaves (A,,,, - a''') and only 7 Cs, and again Middle C will be the 4th one up from the bass.
Older keyboards from the time of Bach into the 18th century would usually only have 4-5 octaves, but Middle C would be where you'd expect to find it. With today's short electronic midi keyboards the "Middle C" of the standard piano could be almost anywhere, depending how you define it with the controls.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Bit of cross-posting there! But we tell the same story.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Thank you, Gary and Lazyhound, I've learned a few interesting things today.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by Ramiro
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
As a matter of interest, the baroque keyboard of 4 octaves covered just about the full range of the human voice, and "Middle C" is one of the few notes that can be sung by any human voice, from bass to soprano.
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by lazyhound
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Actually, that is interesting
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by llig leahcim
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
krick
for the record, music theory isn't all about being able to play a piano. Personally I don't know the notes on a keyboard because i have never bothered to find out - I just wasn't interested. I have been too busy over the years learning fiddle, five string banjo, flute and guitar.
I just wish I had met you earlier in order to educate me
That said I will endeavour to take the 10 seconds it must take to find middle C on a piano - oh there it is. Brilliant I can now use the site properly.
Sheeesh some people just want more and more out of you.... ;)
# Posted on July 4th 2008 by tobes
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
what a great search engine!
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by jasbas
Re: Traditional Music Search Engine
Excellent link, thanks Robert. I found Calum's road.( thought it was Callum's) It doesn't seem to matter too much what octave you start in, unless you get the notes exactly as per the tune, it gives all sorts of other tunes that have something similar.
I think this site would be useful if you have composed something to check out if your memory is plagiarising stuff. At least as far as the search engine's data base goes.
Also it is such a relief not to have to go from kinaesthetic to visual to work out the notes. ABC is a GREAT shorthand, but takes some getting used to, (keyboards I was lucky enough to start plunking away at before reading ).
Wonder if something similar could be done with a grid where you click on finger positions for guitarists, or mandolin players-(fiddlers too), or with little rows of dots for covering fingerholes on flutes,chanters etc.
Great resource, simple and effective.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by mrs.b